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DPS queuing as tank/healer
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TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭I remember when you could queue as tank, healer and dps all at once. So you never knew if you were going to be a fake tank or fake healer until you ported in. God those were the days.0 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zenimax need to change it so that if you have no taunt abilities on your bar(s) you can't queue as tank, and if you have no group healing abilities on your bar(s) you can't queue as healer.
Neat. So I can slot a taunt, queue, enter the dungeon, and remove that taunt and replace it with the intended skill in my rotation.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc0 -
SpacemanSpiff1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The real solution is to have a separate queue with no roles. Players who fake roles won't have to, and players that don't like the former won't be queued with them. Of course the group finder actually has be functional first.1 -
Luckylancer✭✭✭✭✭15k hp dps can slot a taunt and que, requiring taunt/heal skill idea is bad.
Hp must be more that 23k will stop many dds from que as tank. Mana must be more than 15k will stop stam chars that que as healer. A mag dd can slot some skills and they can heal, it will be lack luster but possible.0 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »The real solution is to have a separate queue with no roles. Players who fake roles won't have to, and players that don't like the former won't be queued with them. Of course the group finder actually has be functional first.
Nope.
The real solution is for players not to cheat on other players. It’s not on ZOS to stop you behaving like a ***.
If you want to do a 4 dd random dungeon for the XP, that’s fine. Find 3 other dds and queue via the dungeon finder and you’ll get your CP bonus and all the group will be fine with not having a tank or a healer.
Don’t pretend you’re a tank (or a healer), behave like a *** and cheat your fellow players out of their time. Because when you get BRF instead of FG1, no one is going to think you’re big and clever2 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »The real solution is to have a separate queue with no roles. Players who fake roles won't have to, and players that don't like the former won't be queued with them. Of course the group finder actually has be functional first.
Nope.
The real solution is for players not to cheat on other players. It’s not on ZOS to stop you behaving like a ***.
If you want to do a 4 dd random dungeon for the XP, that’s fine. Find 3 other dds and queue via the dungeon finder and you’ll get your CP bonus and all the group will be fine with not having a tank or a healer.
Don’t pretend you’re a tank (or a healer), behave like a *** and cheat your fellow players out of their time. Because when you get BRF instead of FG1, no one is going to think you’re big and clever
Or you could, you know, do what almost every other MMORPG out there does: role locking.0 -
ShellaSunshine✭✭✭It does happen on PC and it's always the guy who does the least amount of dps possible. If you are doing 40k+ then it would be no big deal but most of the time, they are doing less than 15k and I'm pulling 45% of the damage as healer.
Doesn't bother me so much on normal but if it happens on veteran, I try to kick them. If they don't get voted out then I go afk til they kick me because I'm not wasting my time with a fake tank spending 5 extra minutes per fight because they can't keep the mobs stacked or the boss still long enough to damage.
They actually cause the dungeons to last longer and it's quite annoying.0 -
SpacemanSpiff1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »The real solution is to have a separate queue with no roles. Players who fake roles won't have to, and players that don't like the former won't be queued with them. Of course the group finder actually has be functional first.
Nope.
The real solution is for players not to cheat on other players. It’s not on ZOS to stop you behaving like a ***.
If you want to do a 4 dd random dungeon for the XP, that’s fine. Find 3 other dds and queue via the dungeon finder and you’ll get your CP bonus and all the group will be fine with not having a tank or a healer.
Don’t pretend you’re a tank (or a healer), behave like a *** and cheat your fellow players out of their time. Because when you get BRF instead of FG1, no one is going to think you’re big and clever
Yes.
Until most people kick fake roles to discourage the practice we will still have people doing it.
Let the people that don't care about group composition and want to skip in line do so, with each other and separate from the standard queue.
Alternatives are locking roles (no thanks, some of my characters are flexible and can switch it up) or player ratings (that will be abused to troll/harass people).1 -
Bucky Balls✭✭✭✭There's nothing wrong with the random finder other than it doesn't actually work as a random finder...
All role issues can [edit]be[/edit] resolved by extant means: kick, leave or form your own group. Trying to enforce any arbitrary 'standard' or 'role-lock' is unnecessary and likely to introduce considerably more problems than it might pretend to solve.Edited by Bucky Balls on November 1, 2019 4:33PM1 -
DR4GONFL1✭✭✭✭I do over 75dps on the 21 million dummy and can heal people all day so with the option of getting in a dungeon in a minute or being in que for 30 minutes minimum usually 45 minutes I'll continue to sign in as a healer. And if honest most everyone would too. That's too long when your a solo dps to wait over a half hour and then if you happen to miss it then your over an hour to run a random or daily dungeon. There really aren't many dungeons (veteran included) you need an actual healer in with the exception of a few and still a magplar or even pet sorc and give enough heals along with the groups self heals.Edited by DR4GONFL1 on November 1, 2019 5:20PM0 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Can they hold aggro, stay still, and survive a hit with typical support from competent dps and a decent healer? Then they qualify as a tank.
Can they provide group buffs while supplying HoTs and a couple synergies? Then they qualify as a healer.
Can they provide more than 10k dps and know not to run around like a headless chicken the moment a trash add looks at them funny? If not then they don’t qualify as a dps.
On normal my healer can tank any dungeon with relative ease while doing my usual rotation of buff/heal/hot + 10k dps. Given a group of four players like that and I’d be pretty happy. A dps can easily tank a normal provided they have more self awareness than a snail. I’ve off-tanked nMoL in 7 med just by changing some skills around.
Roles in ESO are far from restrictive. You can do mostly anything on any character provided you’re somewhat skilled.
A bad dps is a bad tank is a bad healer. Kick them and move on. I promise you can take up the slack of a missing tank with a taunt and a self heal in normal. In vet you’d be waiting just as long as you would had the fake tank not been in the queue.0 -
Lady_Linux✭✭✭✭✭CambionDaemon wrote: »You know what, I completely forgot about inner fire, the tanks that I am running with at the moment are all using Ice Staff.
I feel foolish!
Are they taunting with ice staff? That has to be the most awkward, unreliable taunt in the game. Other than that, ice staff does have more block mitigation than other staves, but I'm using lightning staff back bar on my tanks for the debugs, and try to always block on my s/b bar.
Ice staff taunting means heavies going out, meaning you also get a small damage shield for free. That with the CP free shield from blocking, you have yourself a basically free 4k or so damage shield with about 100% uptime on your tank. That's not too bad considering it's free.
As for being unreliable, it'll depend on situation. All taunts gave their moment, and from class to class, or can be more or less useful too.
And ice staff tanking is quite fun of you're not going vetdlc stuff.
why exclude vet dungeons. ice staff tanking is great. be a magicka tank!I simply must protest. There are no Penguin avatars for me to use in the forums.
BTW, I use arch too0 -
OolongSnakeTea✭✭✭✭4mans, on PC perspective-
I que up as a healer as a DPS that can offer healing, only because
A) I am confident that I can heal any damage that may come, even if people stand in stupid
I build myself as a bard, I provide buffs/debuffs, heals and DPS. I'm not terrible DPS, but I'm not god tier.
But I agree, people need to stop dodging que's if they aren't truly the role they are, it makes it a terrible experience for 3 other people."I try to create sympathy for my characters, then turn the monsters loose."– Stephen King1 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lady_Linux wrote: »CambionDaemon wrote: »You know what, I completely forgot about inner fire, the tanks that I am running with at the moment are all using Ice Staff.
I feel foolish!
Are they taunting with ice staff? That has to be the most awkward, unreliable taunt in the game. Other than that, ice staff does have more block mitigation than other staves, but I'm using lightning staff back bar on my tanks for the debugs, and try to always block on my s/b bar.
Ice staff taunting means heavies going out, meaning you also get a small damage shield for free. That with the CP free shield from blocking, you have yourself a basically free 4k or so damage shield with about 100% uptime on your tank. That's not too bad considering it's free.
As for being unreliable, it'll depend on situation. All taunts gave their moment, and from class to class, or can be more or less useful too.
And ice staff tanking is quite fun of you're not going vetdlc stuff.
why exclude vet dungeons. ice staff tanking is great. be a magicka tank!
I meant as main tank weapon, for full mag tanking
I run back bar on two of mine, but for main tanking, it's too slow for my taste, on vet.
I also run 2h back bar, and bow. I like weird builds. I'm weird.1 -
Lady_Linux✭✭✭✭✭thesoundofwolf wrote: »4mans, on PC perspective-
I que up as a healer as a DPS that can offer healing, only because
A) I am confident that I can heal any damage that may come, even if people stand in stupid I build myself as a bard, I provide buffs/debuffs, heals and DPS. I'm not terrible DPS, but I'm not god tier.
But I agree, people need to stop dodging que's if they aren't truly the role they are, it makes it a terrible experience for 3 other people.
so you do a dps/healer hybrid?
share with us your build. do you play a templar by chance?I simply must protest. There are no Penguin avatars for me to use in the forums.
BTW, I use arch too0 -
Lady_Linux✭✭✭✭✭Lady_Linux wrote: »CambionDaemon wrote: »You know what, I completely forgot about inner fire, the tanks that I am running with at the moment are all using Ice Staff.
I feel foolish!
Are they taunting with ice staff? That has to be the most awkward, unreliable taunt in the game. Other than that, ice staff does have more block mitigation than other staves, but I'm using lightning staff back bar on my tanks for the debugs, and try to always block on my s/b bar.
Ice staff taunting means heavies going out, meaning you also get a small damage shield for free. That with the CP free shield from blocking, you have yourself a basically free 4k or so damage shield with about 100% uptime on your tank. That's not too bad considering it's free.
As for being unreliable, it'll depend on situation. All taunts gave their moment, and from class to class, or can be more or less useful too.
And ice staff tanking is quite fun of you're not going vetdlc stuff.
why exclude vet dungeons. ice staff tanking is great. be a magicka tank!
I meant as main tank weapon, for full mag tanking
I run back bar on two of mine, but for main tanking, it's too slow for my taste, on vet.
I also run 2h back bar, and bow. I like weird builds. I'm weird.
show us your majicka tank ice staff build!
I simply must protest. There are no Penguin avatars for me to use in the forums.
BTW, I use arch too0 -
OolongSnakeTea✭✭✭✭Lady_Linux wrote: »thesoundofwolf wrote: »4mans, on PC perspective-
I que up as a healer as a DPS that can offer healing, only because
A) I am confident that I can heal any damage that may come, even if people stand in stupid I build myself as a bard, I provide buffs/debuffs, heals and DPS. I'm not terrible DPS, but I'm not god tier.
But I agree, people need to stop dodging que's if they aren't truly the role they are, it makes it a terrible experience for 3 other people.
so you do a dps/healer hybrid?
share with us your build. do you play a templar by chance?
I do play a templar, as well as a warden to sucessfuly 'dps bard heal'.
Templar is easy, swap a few moves out for some DPS moves and pick the DPS-ritual morph for healing + aoe dmg, a few novas and war horns here, and you're in 'bard town'!
Things like having the DPS morph for shards, vampire bane, and wall of elements helps, while still having mutagen, breath of life and orb makes good for off healing.
As a templar, I more often then not find that I am bored if I am just pure healing, so I tend to like to swaddle the group with AOE heals and be lazy so I can pretend to DPS. I like to wear Infalible mage in 4mans so I can add to some debuffing uptime, and something like Spell Power Cure to buff my group, but you can do that with Olo or for funzies something like the new Trinamac could possibly work.
It all depends on your friends and who you play with! Skys the limit!"I try to create sympathy for my characters, then turn the monsters loose."– Stephen King0 -
Kali_Despoine✭✭✭✭if this then that
it's so easy
spell does this as dps
if queued as tank then this spell does that
if only they came up w/ way to respec and save then fast swap so you can dps dragons and tank dungeons
tanking overland is abysmal at best, you want to dps the overland and maybe run as healer for trials and dungeons0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭thesoundofwolf wrote: »4mans, on PC perspective-
I que up as a healer as a DPS that can offer healing, only because
A) I am confident that I can heal any damage that may come, even if people stand in stupid I build myself as a bard, I provide buffs/debuffs, heals and DPS. I'm not terrible DPS, but I'm not god tier.
Hey, if you can actually pull it off and provide sufficient healing, more power to ya. I got no problem with tanks that heal or healers that do damage and so forth. In fact more often than not I go for a hybrid build myself. They're just more fun for me than any "pure" build that was probably copy/pasted from some youtube video.
The real problems are the DPS who queue as healer or tank with neither the ability nor the willingness to do the job. If you queue as healer or tank, then you damn well better do the job you signed on for. I don't care how you do it as long as you do it."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."2 -
OolongSnakeTea✭✭✭✭
The real problems are the DPS who queue as healer or tank with neither the ability nor the willingness to do the job. If you queue as healer or tank, then you damn well better do the job you signed on for. I don't care how you do it as long as you do it.
Yeah I can agree to that, do the role you signed up for! Espcially when it comes to tanking in some of the DLC zones. MHK with all it's one shots, and Zaan hits like a truck even in normal with her heavies if one isn't savvy to dodge roll.
I feel like fake healing is easier to eek-by with then fake-tanking. Both are dependent on skill.
Ultimately, I feel like players should think of the 3 other people in the group and try not to be a ***. Its group content, not solo content with 3 tag alongs."I try to create sympathy for my characters, then turn the monsters loose."– Stephen King1 -
pma_pacifier✭✭✭I don't think anything else that can be done to make things better, you'd only make things more complicated and newbie/user unfriendly.
If one is so particular about getting proper teammates with roles being played at the optimal level, at the optimal standard be it dps,tank or heal, then why not just gather up your own group to do it together. I'm sure there's guilds out there you could join and seek competent fellow pvers. It is just then nature of getting random teammates; there is no way a game can prevent them from doing anything they want and control how they perform.
Got the time to come forum to :'( but no time to pre-form group??? Got to be kidding me guys.1 -
CaffeinatedMayhem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭phileunderx2 wrote: »In my experience most of the fake role que players are terrible at everything. So I'm all for kicking them.
Except when the other people in your group think keeping a fake tank/heals will be FASTER than kicking and getting another.
I have yet for a vote to kick to ever go through - even for abusive players who are even less fun to run with.0 -
Kali_Despoine✭✭✭✭you no tank? easy dungeon ok I have inner the boss wont run everywhere
/ DLC the v2k starts and stops when only me and one other is left then I just leave
same for healer I have orbs if mag or vig if stam
NO PENALTY FOR ALL
why you complain when this you can do too?
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yRaven✭✭✭✭Zenimax need to change it so that if you have no taunt abilities on your bar(s) you can't queue as tank, and if you have no group healing abilities on your bar(s) you can't queue as healer.
1-Put a Healer/Tank skill that i didn't even leveled up on bar
2-Queue
3-Enter Dungeon
4-Change back
Really, ZOS can't do anything about itJack of all trades. Master of at least one.
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Àrës - Magicka Dragonknight (EP)
Persephónē - Magicka Warden (EP)
Athēna - Magicka Templar (EP)
Hādēs - Magicka Necromancer (EP)
Hërmës - Runner Troll (EP)0 -
Lady_Linux✭✭✭✭✭It's been suggested b4 that tanks should be required to have 30k health and healer to have 30k magicka in order to queuefor the role
but then the problem comes in with stam healers. They are def a thing and are viable. I have seen them with bow/bow and bow/dw setups but i have even run with bow/healing staff - though i never slotted a healing staff ability, the passives from the healing staff seem too much to pas up for healing, even in a stam healing build they still apply. Though i do wonder now with the nerfs to vigor if they are still viable at all. Only a warden seems to do well with them because of the stam healing class ability they possess.I simply must protest. There are no Penguin avatars for me to use in the forums.
BTW, I use arch too0 -
Karmen✭✭✭✭- Dont blame players, blame zenimax. It's their fault if DD have to tag as tank to play a dungeon. DD are maybe tired to wait 1 hour everyday.
- normal dungeons do not need a tank, 3dd or even 4dd are OK.
- better to get a good DD than a bad tank.
I am Carmen.
For Bosmers, war is only a sport1 -
Cirantille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is a special place in hell for these kind of people.
Yes it is easy to do normal dungeon, I and many people even solo those.
But I know from guildies that there are level 18 people doing those dungeons.
They could benefit a lvl 25 tank or lvl 30 healer while learning the mechanics.2 -
CynicK✭✭✭May be there is lack of aviability of tanks but it looks to me that the servers they use to do dungeons have a limit on the number of dungeons they run and they reach it giving the quantity of people playing the game and that is why you have to wait an hour to do a dungeon as a dd.
Ok that you have to farm gear but tanking dungeons is also fun I get the rewards of the most difficult dungeons with my tank because my dps is bad, If they want to queue as tank make a tank.
I think the real problem is that they have a limit on the dungeons they run at the same time, that they have to have it but is too low, and that is why there are those long queues to play as dd, my opinion.0