PvP First Impressions

fbours · October 2019

A Step Forward

Goregrinder wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

llElLoboll wrote: »

. Personally I think the destruction of dswing has severely hurt stam. Not because the skill was op but because there really aren't other viable skills to use instead. That is the reason everyone was running it in the first place.

Patch after patch the "skill" level of pvp keeps getting lowered along with mistakes from the past not being learned from, twilight heal for example, and things are not getting better.

False. Everyone was using it because it was op and now struggle because they have to look for another cheese or actually learn how to play/enjoy without this particular cheese.

If the most choose the learning/enjoying way, PvP average lvl might eventually grow..

A lot of them were getting carried by:

Dswing > Dswing > Dswing (Dswing stun lands yay! > Onslaught > Execute > Execute > Dead.

Literally. You just spawn those 3 skills. On everything you can. That's about it.

Agree with both. My stamsorc is doing fine in this patch, I never went DS - dot from range, steak, DB and spin to win, then run like a good stamsorc - it was extremely successful last patch. Now not so much due to dot nerf but I still somewhat manage, I have to readjust and relearn...

martinhpb16_ESO · October 2019

Other Opinion

World of TankyDKplars

Goregrinder · October 2019

A Step Forward

fbours wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

llElLoboll wrote: »

. Personally I think the destruction of dswing has severely hurt stam. Not because the skill was op but because there really aren't other viable skills to use instead. That is the reason everyone was running it in the first place.

Patch after patch the "skill" level of pvp keeps getting lowered along with mistakes from the past not being learned from, twilight heal for example, and things are not getting better.

False. Everyone was using it because it was op and now struggle because they have to look for another cheese or actually learn how to play/enjoy without this particular cheese.

If the most choose the learning/enjoying way, PvP average lvl might eventually grow..

A lot of them were getting carried by:

Dswing > Dswing > Dswing (Dswing stun lands yay! > Onslaught > Execute > Execute > Dead.

Literally. You just spawn those 3 skills. On everything you can. That's about it.

Agree with both. My stamsorc is doing fine in this patch, I never went DS - dot from range, steak, DB and spin to win, then run like a good stamsorc - it was extremely successful last patch. Now not so much due to dot nerf but I still somewhat manage, I have to readjust and relearn...

I am debating what class to level next: Sorc vs Warden vs Necro. I know Magsorc seems to be good in BG's this patch, how is sustain and survivabilty on it?

llElLoboll · October 2019

kalunte wrote: »

False. Everyone was using it because it was op and now struggle because they have to look for another cheese or actually learn how to play/enjoy without this particular cheese.

If the most choose the learning/enjoying way, PvP average lvl might eventually grow..

Dswing wasn't on anyone's radar until onslaught was changed for no reason. Ult cast times along with how GCD's worked with other cc's was part of what pushed so many to use dswing. Along with the fact that there just weren't many options out there for stam to burst with. I personally never had an issue with cc breaking the knockback and even if I did that is a problem with cc breaking not dswing. Fear, streak, petrify etc have all had cc break issues and yet none of them got destroyed over it. You can't just vaguely say "dswing was op" because there were a ton of factors that went in to why so many people used it. Also for those that say everyone was "spamming it" I would advise you to look at stamsorc, stamden, and stamdk and tell me what reliable spammable those classes had at the time...none. High risk high reward skill that got destroyed over mainly L2P issues. Also I wasn't a huge fan of the skill. I didn't use it much because lag made it impossible to use half the time, just for those that are going to say I'm salty cause I can't crutch anymore.

ketsparrowhawk · October 2019

fbours wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

llElLoboll wrote: »

. Personally I think the destruction of dswing has severely hurt stam. Not because the skill was op but because there really aren't other viable skills to use instead. That is the reason everyone was running it in the first place.

Patch after patch the "skill" level of pvp keeps getting lowered along with mistakes from the past not being learned from, twilight heal for example, and things are not getting better.

False. Everyone was using it because it was op and now struggle because they have to look for another cheese or actually learn how to play/enjoy without this particular cheese.

If the most choose the learning/enjoying way, PvP average lvl might eventually grow..

A lot of them were getting carried by:

Dswing > Dswing > Dswing (Dswing stun lands yay! > Onslaught > Execute > Execute > Dead.

Literally. You just spawn those 3 skills. On everything you can. That's about it.

Agree with both. My stamsorc is doing fine in this patch, I never went DS - dot from range, steak, DB and spin to win, then run like a good stamsorc - it was extremely successful last patch. Now not so much due to dot nerf but I still somewhat manage, I have to readjust and relearn...

Similar strategy here except I'm using Meteor as my ult (non-CP). Dot them up, cast meteor, streak in to stun and start spinning. Hit top 10 deathmatch last night with this strat ;P

Beffagorn · October 2019

Other Opinion

It's...okay-ish, i guess?

Dizzy Swing has been butchered and the new stonefist is trash, but overall it's not the worst pvp meta we've ever had and i guess the changes are keeping things fresh for now.

Can't say if it's a step in the right direction or not...it's just a step on the road to go somewhere.

I'd say its a 5/10.

fbours · October 2019

A Step Forward

Goregrinder wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

llElLoboll wrote: »

. Personally I think the destruction of dswing has severely hurt stam. Not because the skill was op but because there really aren't other viable skills to use instead. That is the reason everyone was running it in the first place.

Patch after patch the "skill" level of pvp keeps getting lowered along with mistakes from the past not being learned from, twilight heal for example, and things are not getting better.

False. Everyone was using it because it was op and now struggle because they have to look for another cheese or actually learn how to play/enjoy without this particular cheese.

If the most choose the learning/enjoying way, PvP average lvl might eventually grow..

A lot of them were getting carried by:

Dswing > Dswing > Dswing (Dswing stun lands yay! > Onslaught > Execute > Execute > Dead.

Literally. You just spawn those 3 skills. On everything you can. That's about it.

Agree with both. My stamsorc is doing fine in this patch, I never went DS - dot from range, steak, DB and spin to win, then run like a good stamsorc - it was extremely successful last patch. Now not so much due to dot nerf but I still somewhat manage, I have to readjust and relearn...

I am debating what class to level next: Sorc vs Warden vs Necro. I know Magsorc seems to be good in BG's this patch, how is sustain and survivabilty on it?

I personally like sorcs theme. Warrior mage, fast pace, amazing burst, in and out, can disengage and I can pick and choose my battles - and of course lightning and dark magic - it just clicks.

Sustain was not a problem since you can use dark deal, just have to be smart. My stamsorc has about 1.5k Stam Regen. But at the same time I am used to playing with such low sustain, my magnb has 1.4k mag Regen - he is a ganker. It is really a playstyle/preference in my opinion.

There is a big difference between Stamsorc and magsorc, and I gotta say that now that I switch to stamsorc I enjoy it even more. I can just fly and no one can catch up. I use prisoner rag, I can streak more than a magsorc and run at almost full speed. I also consider Stamsorc quite a bit harder to play than magsorc. That's me.

Long story short, I personally like/chose sorcs over Necro or warden, but that is a personal choice so choose what fits you. I would start with themes for each class and match that with what you like - do you want to shoot cute flies, rotten bodies or lighting.

Also, I would not worry about buffs/nerfs, it is a rollercoaster like any other MMOs, just enjoy the ride.

Goregrinder · October 2019

A Step Forward

fbours wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

llElLoboll wrote: »

. Personally I think the destruction of dswing has severely hurt stam. Not because the skill was op but because there really aren't other viable skills to use instead. That is the reason everyone was running it in the first place.

Patch after patch the "skill" level of pvp keeps getting lowered along with mistakes from the past not being learned from, twilight heal for example, and things are not getting better.

False. Everyone was using it because it was op and now struggle because they have to look for another cheese or actually learn how to play/enjoy without this particular cheese.

If the most choose the learning/enjoying way, PvP average lvl might eventually grow..

A lot of them were getting carried by:

Dswing > Dswing > Dswing (Dswing stun lands yay! > Onslaught > Execute > Execute > Dead.

Literally. You just spawn those 3 skills. On everything you can. That's about it.

Agree with both. My stamsorc is doing fine in this patch, I never went DS - dot from range, steak, DB and spin to win, then run like a good stamsorc - it was extremely successful last patch. Now not so much due to dot nerf but I still somewhat manage, I have to readjust and relearn...

I am debating what class to level next: Sorc vs Warden vs Necro. I know Magsorc seems to be good in BG's this patch, how is sustain and survivabilty on it?

I personally like sorcs theme. Warrior mage, fast pace, amazing burst, in and out, can disengage and I can pick and choose my battles - and of course lightning and dark magic - it just clicks.

Sustain was not a problem since you can use dark deal, just have to be smart. My stamsorc has about 1.5k Stam Regen. But at the same time I am used to playing with such low sustain, my magnb has 1.4k mag Regen - he is a ganker. It is really a playstyle/preference in my opinion.

There is a big difference between Stamsorc and magsorc, and I gotta say that now that I switch to stamsorc I enjoy it even more. I can just fly and no one can catch up. I use prisoner rag, I can streak more than a magsorc and run at almost full speed. I also consider Stamsorc quite a bit harder to play than magsorc. That's me.

Long story short, I personally like/chose sorcs over Necro or warden, but that is a personal choice so choose what fits you. I would start with themes for each class and match that with what you like - do you want to shoot cute flies, rotten bodies or lighting.

Also, I would not worry about buffs/nerfs, it is a rollercoaster like any other MMOs, just enjoy the ride.

Right on, good info there. Tbh I really want to play Necro but a lot of their abilities are clunky and some don't work correctly sometimes (blast bones) which feels problematic for PVP. I love the theme of Necro, but the mechanics of how to fight are more important to me. It seems that Mag/Stamden can do similar things to necro, but do all of the important things relevant to PVP better.

I have also wanted to play a sorc though, Streak just looks like soooo much fun. I have all 3 sitting at around level 16, fully geared with training gear and pots, waiting for the witches festival to drop. I am going to hop on my sorc again tonight and see how I feel. I appreciate the insight!

Iskiab · October 2019

Goregrinder wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

llElLoboll wrote: »

. Personally I think the destruction of dswing has severely hurt stam. Not because the skill was op but because there really aren't other viable skills to use instead. That is the reason everyone was running it in the first place.

Patch after patch the "skill" level of pvp keeps getting lowered along with mistakes from the past not being learned from, twilight heal for example, and things are not getting better.

False. Everyone was using it because it was op and now struggle because they have to look for another cheese or actually learn how to play/enjoy without this particular cheese.

If the most choose the learning/enjoying way, PvP average lvl might eventually grow..

A lot of them were getting carried by:

Dswing > Dswing > Dswing (Dswing stun lands yay! > Onslaught > Execute > Execute > Dead.

Literally. You just spawn those 3 skills. On everything you can. That's about it.

Agree with both. My stamsorc is doing fine in this patch, I never went DS - dot from range, steak, DB and spin to win, then run like a good stamsorc - it was extremely successful last patch. Now not so much due to dot nerf but I still somewhat manage, I have to readjust and relearn...

I am debating what class to level next: Sorc vs Warden vs Necro. I know Magsorc seems to be good in BG's this patch, how is sustain and survivabilty on it?

I personally like sorcs theme. Warrior mage, fast pace, amazing burst, in and out, can disengage and I can pick and choose my battles - and of course lightning and dark magic - it just clicks.

Sustain was not a problem since you can use dark deal, just have to be smart. My stamsorc has about 1.5k Stam Regen. But at the same time I am used to playing with such low sustain, my magnb has 1.4k mag Regen - he is a ganker. It is really a playstyle/preference in my opinion.

There is a big difference between Stamsorc and magsorc, and I gotta say that now that I switch to stamsorc I enjoy it even more. I can just fly and no one can catch up. I use prisoner rag, I can streak more than a magsorc and run at almost full speed. I also consider Stamsorc quite a bit harder to play than magsorc. That's me.

Long story short, I personally like/chose sorcs over Necro or warden, but that is a personal choice so choose what fits you. I would start with themes for each class and match that with what you like - do you want to shoot cute flies, rotten bodies or lighting.

Also, I would not worry about buffs/nerfs, it is a rollercoaster like any other MMOs, just enjoy the ride.

Right on, good info there. Tbh I really want to play Necro but a lot of their abilities are clunky and some don't work correctly sometimes (blast bones) which feels problematic for PVP. I love the theme of Necro, but the mechanics of how to fight are more important to me. It seems that Mag/Stamden can do similar things to necro, but do all of the important things relevant to PVP better.

I have also wanted to play a sorc though, Streak just looks like soooo much fun. I have all 3 sitting at around level 16, fully geared with training gear and pots, waiting for the witches festival to drop. I am going to hop on my sorc again tonight and see how I feel. I appreciate the insight!

Sorc sustain is really good. So good most of the time sorcs don’t use their sustain ability and use a different one instead.

Streak’s fun too. Streak x4 and dark deal x2 everywhere.

I think the sorc theme is mobility if anything.

universal_wrath · October 2019

A Step Forward

fbours wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

llElLoboll wrote: »

. Personally I think the destruction of dswing has severely hurt stam. Not because the skill was op but because there really aren't other viable skills to use instead. That is the reason everyone was running it in the first place.

Patch after patch the "skill" level of pvp keeps getting lowered along with mistakes from the past not being learned from, twilight heal for example, and things are not getting better.

False. Everyone was using it because it was op and now struggle because they have to look for another cheese or actually learn how to play/enjoy without this particular cheese.

If the most choose the learning/enjoying way, PvP average lvl might eventually grow..

A lot of them were getting carried by:

Dswing > Dswing > Dswing (Dswing stun lands yay! > Onslaught > Execute > Execute > Dead.

Literally. You just spawn those 3 skills. On everything you can. That's about it.

Agree with both. My stamsorc is doing fine in this patch, I never went DS - dot from range, steak, DB and spin to win, then run like a good stamsorc - it was extremely successful last patch. Now not so much due to dot nerf but I still somewhat manage, I have to readjust and relearn...

I am debating what class to level next: Sorc vs Warden vs Necro. I know Magsorc seems to be good in BG's this patch, how is sustain and survivabilty on it?

I personally like sorcs theme. Warrior mage, fast pace, amazing burst, in and out, can disengage and I can pick and choose my battles - and of course lightning and dark magic - it just clicks.

Sustain was not a problem since you can use dark deal, just have to be smart. My stamsorc has about 1.5k Stam Regen. But at the same time I am used to playing with such low sustain, my magnb has 1.4k mag Regen - he is a ganker. It is really a playstyle/preference in my opinion.

There is a big difference between Stamsorc and magsorc, and I gotta say that now that I switch to stamsorc I enjoy it even more. I can just fly and no one can catch up. I use prisoner rag, I can streak more than a magsorc and run at almost full speed. I also consider Stamsorc quite a bit harder to play than magsorc. That's me.

Long story short, I personally like/chose sorcs over Necro or warden, but that is a personal choice so choose what fits you. I would start with themes for each class and match that with what you like - do you want to shoot cute flies, rotten bodies or lighting.

Also, I would not worry about buffs/nerfs, it is a rollercoaster like any other MMOs, just enjoy the ride.

Think I'm happy with some of the changes, espacialy how snare is applied, now nobody will cripple my speedy stam sorc to death, BoL is also nice addtion and I think I will be using it more than streak. However, DS stun is gone, and its dmg nerfed again, flurry as well. I think i will be back to SnB and face bash people to death, which does not sound bad.

I still don't think bound armament active is worth much and i will keep sloting it for passive like usual, I tested it on PTS in first weeo before they buff, I was not impressed.

olsborg · October 2019

A Step Forward

Sadly its still ruined by lagg

technohic · October 2019

A Step Forward

The lag is still bad but different.

Have had a new thing where I can move about 10m in any direction but then rubber band back to a spot

And now when I press a button; not only is there a chance the ability on the same button on my other bar goes off, it also could be any of the other buttons on either bar. Feels like someone else is controlling my character but I think it's where before, some keypress abilities just didn't fire; now it eventually goes off. Might be at the next keep, but it still goes off.

juhislihis19 · October 2019

Other Opinion

technohic wrote: »

The lag is still bad but different.

Have had a new thing where I can move about 10m in any direction but then rubber band back to a spot

And now when I press a button; not only is there a chance the ability on the same button on my other bar goes off, it also could be any of the other buttons on either bar. Feels like someone else is controlling my character but I think it's where before, some keypress abilities just didn't fire; now it eventually goes off. Might be at the next keep, but it still goes off.

But hey, at least the Crown Store works like a train toilet!

Goregrinder · October 2019

A Step Forward

juhislihis19 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

The lag is still bad but different.

Have had a new thing where I can move about 10m in any direction but then rubber band back to a spot

And now when I press a button; not only is there a chance the ability on the same button on my other bar goes off, it also could be any of the other buttons on either bar. Feels like someone else is controlling my character but I think it's where before, some keypress abilities just didn't fire; now it eventually goes off. Might be at the next keep, but it still goes off.

But hey, at least the Crown Store works like a train toilet!

I can confirm, the crown store was working for me last night.

Waffennacht · October 2019

Thumbed through; feelings from what I've read:
Tanks are increasing in numbers as expected

Mag necro = dumpster
Everyone else seems pleased

Maulkin · October 2019

Other Opinion

Early impression, but here goes. I can't really say if it's better or worse.... it's just different. Pressure (and therefore damage) overall feels considerably less, as expected. The meta seems to be softly switching towards a bit more burst damage than tankiness and DoT stacking. The HoTs now clearly outperform DoTs. The slower stamina drain on sprint has made people a bit more mobile.

There are winners and losers from this patch. Stamina builds without purge certainly feel more survivable than they did before. Entropy is still pretty prevalent but I've hardly seen Soul Trap this week, it seems to have dropped off from a lot of peoples' bars.

On a class level, both mag and stam Sorcs feel stronger than before and at the top of the power structure benefitting from their high burst and mobility. The rest of it doesn't seem considerably changed. Templars, DKs and Wardens still feel plenty survivable with a decent burst and not too far off Sorcs. Templars now feel less oppressive with the good changes to Living Dark and Backlash. Stamblade also feels better with the removal of the delay to grim focus and end of the DoT oppression.

At the bottom you have Magblade and Magcro who were very heavily invested in the DoT meta and thus feel certainly weaker now. They will need plenty of help to escape their predicament. The former needs buffs to become the burst class that it was, while the latter needs both buffs and fixes to some of its core broken abilities. No change there from last patch.

Dr_Ganknstein · October 2019

Goregrinder wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

llElLoboll wrote: »

. Personally I think the destruction of dswing has severely hurt stam. Not because the skill was op but because there really aren't other viable skills to use instead. That is the reason everyone was running it in the first place.

Patch after patch the "skill" level of pvp keeps getting lowered along with mistakes from the past not being learned from, twilight heal for example, and things are not getting better.

False. Everyone was using it because it was op and now struggle because they have to look for another cheese or actually learn how to play/enjoy without this particular cheese.

If the most choose the learning/enjoying way, PvP average lvl might eventually grow..

A lot of them were getting carried by:

Dswing > Dswing > Dswing (Dswing stun lands yay! > Onslaught > Execute > Execute > Dead.

Literally. You just spawn those 3 skills. On everything you can. That's about it.

That's funny because I noticed that also. I'd watch popular 1vXers using different classes but it always came down to that combo. Same *** everytime just different passives.

Grimlok_S · October 2019

I found myself picking up Dizzy in CP for the first time in ages. It actually feels fairly reliable to land

ThePhantomThorn · October 2019

A Step Forward

i think the main issue with zos is that they change skills for NO reason whatsoever.
eg. onslaught. was fine. used by niche builds. buffed to an unstoppable op skill.
another, templar javelin. was fine, now IGNORES RESISTANCES?? WHY?? no concevable reason.
oh and backlash...
already hit hard....
remember when they stopped it from critting?
same reason as proc sets. too high damage.
now...

boom baby...

cant wait for the build that can hit 20k potls...

sill tho. GRIM FOCUS NO MIN TRAVEL TIME YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

darkblue5 · October 2019

A Step Forward

Patch would be great if ultimates got a travel time instead of these cast times.
Patch would be steller if ZOS revisited the numbers on Battlespirit. The mechanic was supposed to make health bars less swingy. Health bars have been getting swingier and are a lot more like pre-battlespirit. Buff battlespirit!
(I'm not asking for nerfs. I'm just asking for buffs like the anti-nerf crowd wants

)

Maulkin · October 2019

Other Opinion

darkblue5 wrote: »

Patch would be great if ultimates got a travel time instead of these cast times.
Patch would be steller if ZOS revisited the numbers on Battlespirit. The mechanic was supposed to make health bars less swingy. Health bars have been getting swingier and are a lot more like pre-battlespirit. Buff battlespirit!
(I'm not asking for nerfs. I'm just asking for buffs like the anti-nerf crowd wants )

What is a travel time, on a melee ability like Incap/DBoS/Onslaught?

Mayrael · October 2019

A Step Forward

I really like this patch. A lot of OP things has been nerfed DoTs included, which leads to situation where you can again 1vX and some potato refreshing his dots on you won't make any difference.

After seeing PTS notes I started to adjust my build long before patch dropped on live so now I have no problems with killing people to.

katorga · October 2019

Icky wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

llElLoboll wrote: »

. Personally I think the destruction of dswing has severely hurt stam. Not because the skill was op but because there really aren't other viable skills to use instead. That is the reason everyone was running it in the first place.

Patch after patch the "skill" level of pvp keeps getting lowered along with mistakes from the past not being learned from, twilight heal for example, and things are not getting better.

False. Everyone was using it because it was op and now struggle because they have to look for another cheese or actually learn how to play/enjoy without this particular cheese.

If the most choose the learning/enjoying way, PvP average lvl might eventually grow..

A lot of them were getting carried by:

Dswing > Dswing > Dswing (Dswing stun lands yay! > Onslaught > Execute > Execute > Dead.

Literally. You just spawn those 3 skills. On everything you can. That's about it.

That's funny because I noticed that also. I'd watch popular 1vXers using different classes but it always came down to that combo. Same *** everytime just different passives.

TBH, after all the nerfs Dswing was the only "reasonable" option in the weapon skill lines for a spammable. Only NB and templar have decent class spammables (not everyone would agree with that). Rally is sort of mandatory, even if you have a class source of major brutality. If you were a sorc, warden, DK, or Necro....you really had no other choice than to use dswing.

Take my stamcro... I have to have a source of brutality, an execute, and some of the time a gap closer. My class spammable is terrible. So I'm kind of stuck with 2H on one bar.

L_Nici · October 2019

A Step Back

In my opinion it feels like a step back in certain areas and a step forward in others.

The nerf of DoTs was needed and is definitely a step forward, but on the other hand the TankMeta came back due to the nerf of Dizzy. Before you could hit a tank in a moment where he is not holding block permanently and get a short time period where you could kill it.
Now since Dizzy got Nerfed badly and the DoTs are gone also, the way is open for all that permablocking Sword and Shield users to get back. There is just no way of breaking their defenses right now, no skill that can give you enough damage or a short time were you can hit them hard.
So don't get me wrong I like the DoTs getting nerfed, they were totally OP before, but really nerfing Dizzys damage AND destroying the stun was just to much. Dizzy was such a nice skill back as it had 1 second casttime and was a high risk high reward thing, as it got down to 0.8 seconds it was a nice buff, which wasn't needed in my opinion. I would rather take the 1 second casttime, let the Damage Nerf stay, but at least get the stun back, since the stun was essential. What dealt so much damage was never the Dizzy itself, it was the setup for combos after it. You could follow up with a light, even heavy attack into Reverse Slice or Execute (and in Scalebreaker with Onslaught (which propably was the issue and not the Dizzy)) so very clean and it really was the best option against tanky players.