Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Troll King
-
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nerftheforums wrote: »as any half decent player I obviously try to have a highest uptime on vigor as possible.
This sounds like you are anti-build diversity. You believe it should be impossible to play effectively without high Vigor uptime?
Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast3 -
Saucy_Jack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I saw the thread title and thought it was going to be about Pie King; I am relieved yet still a little disappointed I was incorrect.ALL HAIL SNUGGLORR THE MAGNIFICENT, KING OF THE RNG AND NIRN'S ONE TRUE GOD! Also, become a Scrub-scriber! SJ Scrubs: Playing games badly to make you feel better about yourself.0 -
Nerftheforums✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Nerftheforums wrote: »t I think we can agree that getting access to it now is really freaking hard.
Not really, Thurvokun + Ward of Cyrodiil?
Absolutely. Wanna try to run that solo in cyro? 😅 You play a lot of bgs as I understood, I solo/2vX. Running that isn't really an option for me. Anyhow, there are those (even tho Thurvokun is a really bad set imo for pvp considering it's so static and anybody with half a brain cell will walk out of it), some skills and that's all. I'm happy it isn't as spammable as when it was tied to incap/reverb, but with the amount of healing present in the game in the cp environment, I'd be happy to see an extra skill or two that could apply it. Or simply the good old disease glyphs.0 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Needs a hard nerf.
Needs buff, you mean. That set isn't half as good as people make it out to be. Health regen only ticks every two seconds, and to such a. Small amount that's basically useless unless it's a tanky V tanky fight, in which case not having it changes very little anyway because no one is that bursty.
Of all the things the need nerf, you want to nerf the things that need buffs? C'mon...6 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nerftheforums wrote: »Wanna try to run that solo in cyro?
I also play solo in Cyro quite a bit over the years, and I think it's a waste of time to try and do that on a melee brawler without either wearing TK or stacking stam regen high enough that the cost of casting Vigor every few seconds isn't torturous. I don't see why the latter of these options should be favored over the former.
Yes Thurvokun is not good in small engagements in the open field, but it is very good in large scale / sieging.
Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭In its own, Troll King doesn't guarantee survivability, but when combined with other defensive maneuvers it becomes one of the best sets for that purpose. It's especially great for turtling/evading damage when you're low HP. Cast vigor, then hold block and watch your HP shoot up from 50%. If you're a rolly polly player, vigor dodge roll achieve the same result. In a sense, it is a carry set because it provides a very strong passive healing for 10s at the cost of 1 vigor. Sure, you can kill a mediocre/average player wearing the set, but it's hard to kill a Troll King player who knows what he's doing. That's why most tourney bans it.0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭StaticWave wrote: »That's why most tourney bans it.
They ban it so that the duel can actually end. If you can't kill somebody 1v1 in Cyro, you're wasting your time. They are too tanky to take down 1v1. TK isn't even involved in the current Meatbag Meta.
Resource point for resource point, Defense must be able to withstand Offense, or it will not exist. "But then everyone would stack defense": then it would be a pure stalemate, and the map would not change one bit from when the Server resets.
Edited by Urzigurumash on October 29, 2019 7:27PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast2 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seriously people are calling for a nerf to one of the most worn and most beloved Monster Sets because you can't take somebody down 1v1 in Cyro? In my opinion good PvPers simply wave to their enemies when they encounter them 1v1 in the open field and keep riding. TK isn't the only cause of this, not by a long shot.
Again, you all need to take a good long look at the new Endurance. To this end I believe you all to be agents of the Undaunted, goading us into farming Endurance, or Key Farmers trying to turn a profit.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »
They ban it so that the duel can actually end.
Precisely0 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nerf threads need a hard nerf.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU4 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭@StaticWave
Right, so your fault if you're trying to duel somebody in open field CP Cyro wearing TK. You are wasting both yours and your opponents time. It is just as trolly to try and take down a TK Tank 1v1 as it is to be a TK Tank 1v1.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Nerftheforums✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »@StaticWave
Right, so your fault if you're trying to duel somebody in open field CP Cyro wearing TK. You are wasting both yours and your opponents time. It is just as trolly to try and take down a TK Tank 1v1 as it is to be a TK Tank 1v1.
Having to give up a 1v1 because of a set doesn't make that set a carry?0 -
regime211✭✭✭✭✭
✭TempPlayer wrote: »You mean the boss, the set, or the style.
Oh wait, you mean trolling. Nerf away.
You will never know lol0 -
regime211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nerftheforums wrote: »No cooldown, basically no proc requirements, carries. Should have a least a cooldown for how strong this set is.
Exactly!0 -
regime211✭✭✭✭✭
✭redlink1979 wrote: »"Nerf all the classes and all the skills that kill me in PvP/BG. Everything that kills me is OP because I'm such a great player" :'(
- stares out window at the rain.1 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nerftheforums wrote: »Having to give up a 1v1 because of a set doesn't make that set a carry?
Maybe, can you explain more what you mean?
Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭They improve, but they do not replace the need for such player to actively perform the action in an effective way. Which is fine, stuff like this has to be in the game for newer and less skilled players, but imo it should not be more effective than someone who really knows how to keep up vigor and time his/her own rally properly and use the other utilities to improve survivability
I don't think TK really does satisfy that last clause. Overall stacking Stam Regen to support Vigor uptime provides better play than stacking HP Regen to survive without Vigor uptime - Stam Regen also fuels offfense.
That's not to say the Stam Regen player "should" be able to beat the HP Regen player 1v1. It "should" be a stalemate.
Counter my thesis:
Point for point, skill for skill, defense should be able to withstand offense, so that defense exists at all. In the absence of any defense Cyro would devolve to what we see in the later stages of a game of Risk - every player has all of their units in 1 territory, and 1 unit in every other territory. This is because small numbers of units are ineffective at providing any defense in Risk. If 5 units could effectively resist the 30 unit stack, more players would distribute their units that way. Am I wrong here?
Edited by Urzigurumash on October 29, 2019 8:54PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast4 -
Nerftheforums✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »They improve, but they do not replace the need for such player to actively perform the action in an effective way. Which is fine, stuff like this has to be in the game for newer and less skilled players, but imo it should not be more effective than someone who really knows how to keep up vigor and time his/her own rally properly and use the other utilities to improve survivability
I don't think TK really does satisfy that last clause. Overall stacking Stam Regen to support Vigor uptime provides better play than stacking HP Regen to survive without Vigor uptime - Stam Regen also fuels offfense.
That's not to say the Stam Regen player "should" be able to beat the HP Regen player 1v1. It "should" be a stalemate.
Counter my thesis:
Point for point, skill for skill, defense should be able to withstand offense, so that defense exists at all. In the absence of any defense Cyro would devolve to what we see in the later stages of a game of Risk - every player has all of their units in 1 territory, and 1 unit in every other territory. This is because small numbers of units are ineffective at providing any defense in Risk. If 5 units could effectively resist the 30 unit stack, more players would distribute their units that way. Am I wrong here?
You literally should aim at a 100% vigor uptime. Tk removes that need, thus removing the skill requirement to perform effectively in defensive scenarios.0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nerftheforums wrote: »You literally should aim at a 100% vigor uptime. Tk removes that need, thus removing the skill requirement to perform effectively in defensive scenarios.
At the expense of being able to turn around and use that "power budget allocation" towards offense, no matter your skill level. So then isn't Vigor more OP than TK?Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
iaminc✭✭✭✭How about crappy PvP players stop screaming for nerfs period.( No offence meant to the decent PvP crowd)
Every nerf thread I ever see is a PvP player crying salty tears because they lost a fight or the latest meta build they run didn’t save them.4 -
Nerftheforums✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Nerftheforums wrote: »You literally should aim at a 100% vigor uptime. Tk removes that need, thus removing the skill requirement to perform effectively in defensive scenarios.
At the expense of being able to turn around and use that "power budget allocation" towards offense, no matter your skill level. So then isn't Vigor more OP than TK?
Lul wut0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nerftheforums wrote: »Lul wut
The player stacking HP Regen cannot use that HP Regen to fuel offense. The player stacking Stam Regen to fuel Vigor to compensate for low HP Regen can use that Stam Regen to fuel offense.
Edited by Urzigurumash on October 29, 2019 9:12PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast2 -
Nerftheforums✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Nerftheforums wrote: »Lul wut
The player stacking HP Regen cannot use that HP Regen to fuel offense. The player stacking Stam Regen to fuel Vigor to compensate for low HP Regen can use that Stam Regen to fuel offense.
I meeeeeean, you don't build stam regen to use vigor. That's basically a requirement to pvp...0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nerftheforums wrote: »I meeeeeean, you don't build stam regen to use vigor. That's basically a requirement to pvp...
Then Stam Regen is a "carry"
Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast6 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Nerftheforums wrote: »Lul wut
The player stacking HP Regen cannot use that HP Regen to fuel offense. The player stacking Stam Regen to fuel Vigor to compensate for low HP Regen can use that Stam Regen to fuel offense.
I mean, I can sit at 5,2k weapon damage, capped resistance with almost 4k HP regen (no lingering pots), around 1,3k stamregen and do perfectly fine. And this is in NO-CP on stamsorc. When trollking procs I can do whatever I want more or less, whether it is playing offensively or defensively. And I´m not even actively trying to stack HP-regen and if I would run with steed mundus stone I could easily breach 4k HP-regen.
Trollking is a carry and if you really want it to be used as a healer/support set, ZOS should change so the wearer can´t proc it on themselves, and add a cooldown to how often it can proc.Edited by Qbiken on October 29, 2019 9:31PM0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Qbiken
I agree 100% with your first paragraph, same is true for my StamDK.
It's no secret this set is benefiting StamDKs and StamSorcs the most.
It's not a healer/support set, it's one the 2 BIS defensive monster sets for Brawlers.
What's the problem with that exactly?
Edited by Urzigurumash on October 29, 2019 9:34PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1
