Nobody is using Wings, Stone Fist, Igneous Weapons
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Lady_Linux✭✭✭✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Wings are really strong. Personally on my playstyle & build they fit well and works as i want them. Against most ranged specs that 6 seconds mitigation i keep up is so worth it. Playstyle, game mode and group composition thingy.. yeah can work with just the Major Mending from Fragmented and focus on healing done/recieved, but with Wings up i personally feel not need so much healing most times and i am on offensive more than i would be without Wings.
Yeah, Wings take a slot and can be a "useless" skill when 1vs1 against a melee brawler, but hardly ever at Cyrodiil open world or at bgs you end up on those, there always are snipe spammers and other projectile spammers putting pressure on you as a bonus.. so Wings make atleast for me things more fun and efficient and100% is worth the slot they take. Playstyle and choice thingy.
And about Stone Fist.. well, on one DK setup i am currently testing it, if i would perhaps use that OR Power Slam. For reasons, don`t ask. And it is not half bad.. i know i know, it is not a stamwhip, but.. it is not all bad in a setup i got in mind.
isnt stonefist the only self/group heal the dk has?I simply must protest. There are no Penguin avatars for me to use in the forums.
BTW, I use arch too0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"wings was overloaded"
Laughs in Cloak, where you can disappear, negating all targeting, controlling disengagement and reengagement of fights, allowing heals from almost dead to 100% completely unmitigated, forcing in-flight projectiles to miss, and suppressing DoT's, all in the one button press.
...which can be completely disabled for a quarter of a f***ing minute by anyone with enough brain cells to pop a potion.
Cloak is the most unreliable defensive skill in the game — bar none. Imagine if there were potions that made your wings (or shields if you're a sorc) completely useless for 15 seconds. Now imagine having no viable burst heal & being forced to gear up as a glass cannon because that's the only way you can get decent burst. Sounds awful, doesn't it?
Old wings could also be shut down by 2 or more ranged who had the brains to spam light attack to hit the cap in 2 seconds at most.
Point being, old wings also had counters, and yet it was completely trashed, while cloak sits untouched, despite being way stronger than old wings in terms of what it actually offers. If you're gonna nerf wings with the "too hard to counter" excuse, nerf cloak, because it's more or less the exact same thing.
You're either slotting a potion that takes up the spot of other potions, spamming AoE's that are so damn small that you need to be sitting on top of the NB, or spamming detect skills which don't even work half the time, and cost an arm and a leg. All of which need you need to change your build to use. What was it that Sorc's and Nightblade's said regarding countering wings? "Yeah, we're totally going to switch to inferior skills to counter wings."
Bit of a double standard when you have to do the same with cloak, now, isn't it? So, where's the cloak nerf that turns it into a *** passive dodge?0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Waitwhut???GeorgeBlack wrote: »Nobody is using Wings... in PvP.
My main PvP character is my archer girl... and I get frustrated by wings WAY too often!
I call fake news!
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Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭"wings was overloaded"
Laughs in Cloak, where you can disappear, negating all targeting, controlling disengagement and reengagement of fights, allowing heals from almost dead to 100% completely unmitigated, forcing in-flight projectiles to miss, and suppressing DoT's, all in the one button press.
...which can be completely disabled for a quarter of a f***ing minute by anyone with enough brain cells to pop a potion.
Cloak is the most unreliable defensive skill in the game — bar none. Imagine if there were potions that made your wings (or shields if you're a sorc) completely useless for 15 seconds. Now imagine having no viable burst heal & being forced to gear up as a glass cannon because that's the only way you can get decent burst. Sounds awful, doesn't it?
Old wings could also be shut down by 2 or more ranged who had the brains to spam light attack to hit the cap in 2 seconds at most.
Point being, old wings also had counters, and yet it was completely trashed, while cloak sits untouched, despite being way stronger than old wings in terms of what it actually offers. If you're gonna nerf wings with the "too hard to counter" excuse, nerf cloak, because it's more or less the exact same thing.
You're either slotting a potion that takes up the spot of other potions, spamming AoE's that are so damn small that you need to be sitting on top of the NB, or spamming detect skills which don't even work half the time, and cost an arm and a leg. All of which need you need to change your build to use. What was it that Sorc's and Nightblade's said regarding countering wings? "Yeah, we're totally going to switch to inferior skills to counter wings."
Bit of a double standard when you have to do the same with cloak, now, isn't it? So, where's the cloak nerf that turns it into a *** passive dodge?
You act like you don't have the ability to switch between 9 different potions on your quick bar.
Try playing the class some time if you think it's so OP.Edited by Langeston on October 26, 2019 6:32AM0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"wings was overloaded"
Laughs in Cloak, where you can disappear, negating all targeting, controlling disengagement and reengagement of fights, allowing heals from almost dead to 100% completely unmitigated, forcing in-flight projectiles to miss, and suppressing DoT's, all in the one button press.
...which can be completely disabled for a quarter of a f***ing minute by anyone with enough brain cells to pop a potion.
Cloak is the most unreliable defensive skill in the game — bar none. Imagine if there were potions that made your wings (or shields if you're a sorc) completely useless for 15 seconds. Now imagine having no viable burst heal & being forced to gear up as a glass cannon because that's the only way you can get decent burst. Sounds awful, doesn't it?
Old wings could also be shut down by 2 or more ranged who had the brains to spam light attack to hit the cap in 2 seconds at most.
Point being, old wings also had counters, and yet it was completely trashed, while cloak sits untouched, despite being way stronger than old wings in terms of what it actually offers. If you're gonna nerf wings with the "too hard to counter" excuse, nerf cloak, because it's more or less the exact same thing.
You're either slotting a potion that takes up the spot of other potions, spamming AoE's that are so damn small that you need to be sitting on top of the NB, or spamming detect skills which don't even work half the time, and cost an arm and a leg. All of which need you need to change your build to use. What was it that Sorc's and Nightblade's said regarding countering wings? "Yeah, we're totally going to switch to inferior skills to counter wings."
Bit of a double standard when you have to do the same with cloak, now, isn't it? So, where's the cloak nerf that turns it into a *** passive dodge?
Try playing the class some time if you think it's so OP.
Same can be said about old wings. You realise that you could literally cast wings, then half a second later, it'd drop since you're being pelted by ranged fire, right? You realise that certain projectiles ignored wings, namely projectile-based proc sets, right?
Everybody is fine asking for other class's tools being nerfed, until someone asks for your tools to be nerfed to pay back the favour. Old wings was neutered because of Sorc's and Nightblade's crying about how they didn't want to change their slotted skills, and yet we still need to change our slotted skills and consumables to counter your class's defensive tool? Get *** real.
Nightblade's wanted wings nerfed because they didn't want to adapt, so I'm just returning the favour. Eye for an eye, and all that.Edited by jcm2606 on October 26, 2019 6:39AM1 -
teladoy✭✭✭✭✭Sadly I have to say it's true... I have a stamina and Magicka DK and I use no one of these skills, excepting igneous weapons in my Magicka DK.
But there are also many other skills I also don't use and that I never used, always talking about PVP.
I think DK needs more attention to the mechanics of their skills. They have 5 or 6 skills in complete in all skill lines that are very powerful but the rest are the complete opposite a waste of slot.0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭"wings was overloaded"
Laughs in Cloak, where you can disappear, negating all targeting, controlling disengagement and reengagement of fights, allowing heals from almost dead to 100% completely unmitigated, forcing in-flight projectiles to miss, and suppressing DoT's, all in the one button press.
...which can be completely disabled for a quarter of a f***ing minute by anyone with enough brain cells to pop a potion.
Cloak is the most unreliable defensive skill in the game — bar none. Imagine if there were potions that made your wings (or shields if you're a sorc) completely useless for 15 seconds. Now imagine having no viable burst heal & being forced to gear up as a glass cannon because that's the only way you can get decent burst. Sounds awful, doesn't it?
Old wings could also be shut down by 2 or more ranged who had the brains to spam light attack to hit the cap in 2 seconds at most.
Point being, old wings also had counters, and yet it was completely trashed, while cloak sits untouched, despite being way stronger than old wings in terms of what it actually offers. If you're gonna nerf wings with the "too hard to counter" excuse, nerf cloak, because it's more or less the exact same thing.
You're either slotting a potion that takes up the spot of other potions, spamming AoE's that are so damn small that you need to be sitting on top of the NB, or spamming detect skills which don't even work half the time, and cost an arm and a leg. All of which need you need to change your build to use. What was it that Sorc's and Nightblade's said regarding countering wings? "Yeah, we're totally going to switch to inferior skills to counter wings."
Bit of a double standard when you have to do the same with cloak, now, isn't it? So, where's the cloak nerf that turns it into a *** passive dodge?
Try playing the class some time if you think it's so OP.
Same can be said about old wings. You realise that you could literally cast wings, then half a second later, it'd drop since you're being pelted by ranged fire, right? You realise that certain projectiles ignored wings, namely projectile-based proc sets, right?
Everybody is fine asking for other class's tools being nerfed, until someone asks for your tools to be nerfed to pay back the favour. Old wings was neutered because of Sorc's and Nightblade's crying about how they didn't want to change their slotted skills, and yet we still need to change our slotted skills and consumables to counter your class's defensive tool? Get *** real.
Nightblade's wanted wings nerfed because they didn't want to adapt, so I'm just returning the favour. Eye for an eye, and all that jazz.
Um, I didn't ask for anything to get nerfed bro.
It'd be one thing if we were talking about having to slot skills on your bar, since you can't change those on the fly. But if you can't be bothered to slot a potion that you can easily switch to at will that will completely destroy a NBs defenses just in case you come up against one then you have no one to blame but yourself if you can't counter the most easily defeated skill in the game.
I have to play against NBs too you know, and I'd much rather go up against them than a templar or DK. Once I pop a potion & they're usually dead in 3-5 hits.0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"wings was overloaded"
Laughs in Cloak, where you can disappear, negating all targeting, controlling disengagement and reengagement of fights, allowing heals from almost dead to 100% completely unmitigated, forcing in-flight projectiles to miss, and suppressing DoT's, all in the one button press.
...which can be completely disabled for a quarter of a f***ing minute by anyone with enough brain cells to pop a potion.
Cloak is the most unreliable defensive skill in the game — bar none. Imagine if there were potions that made your wings (or shields if you're a sorc) completely useless for 15 seconds. Now imagine having no viable burst heal & being forced to gear up as a glass cannon because that's the only way you can get decent burst. Sounds awful, doesn't it?
Old wings could also be shut down by 2 or more ranged who had the brains to spam light attack to hit the cap in 2 seconds at most.
Point being, old wings also had counters, and yet it was completely trashed, while cloak sits untouched, despite being way stronger than old wings in terms of what it actually offers. If you're gonna nerf wings with the "too hard to counter" excuse, nerf cloak, because it's more or less the exact same thing.
You're either slotting a potion that takes up the spot of other potions, spamming AoE's that are so damn small that you need to be sitting on top of the NB, or spamming detect skills which don't even work half the time, and cost an arm and a leg. All of which need you need to change your build to use. What was it that Sorc's and Nightblade's said regarding countering wings? "Yeah, we're totally going to switch to inferior skills to counter wings."
Bit of a double standard when you have to do the same with cloak, now, isn't it? So, where's the cloak nerf that turns it into a *** passive dodge?
You act like you don't have the ability to switch between 9 different potions on your quick bar.
And Nightblade were acting like they didn't have the ability to tweak their build or playstyle when fighting a DK, back when old wings was cried about. I'm literally doing what Nightblade's, and Sorc's (Nightblade's weren't the only ones crying about old wings), did back then.
Nightblade's actually had something to cry about, they didn't have many unreflectable skills to swap to, and I admitted that back when old wings was cried about. I even suggested giving Nightblade's some unreflectable skills to help deal with DK's (making Cripple unreflectable, don't even know why it's reflectable in the first place, as it isn't a projectile; making Strife unreflectable; etc). But no. Nightblade's didn't want that, Nightblade's just wanted old wings removed from the game.
I'm literally doing the same thing Nightblade's did to the DK community back then, except I'm complaining about cloak, not wings. From where I sit, cloak requires certain classes that don't have access to large AoE's to change their builds to counter it, just as old wings used to.
To counter cloak, I either need to use a potion that only helps against that Nightblade and puts all other potions on a 45 second cooldown, or I need to slot an AoE that needs me to be sitting right on top of the Nightblade to pull them out, or I need to slot a detection skill that is super inconsistent and costs an arm and a leg, or I just sit still, block, and wait for the Nightblade to come out.
Just like old wings used to require you to slot non-projectile skills, spam light attacks to knock wings down without insta killing yourself, or waiting for the DK to stop rotating wings and line up burst around that.
But nope, gutting wings is absolutely fine, leaving cloak untouched is absolutely fine. Double standards are fine, absolute hypocrisy is fine. Nothing to see here, carry on.0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"wings was overloaded"
Laughs in Cloak, where you can disappear, negating all targeting, controlling disengagement and reengagement of fights, allowing heals from almost dead to 100% completely unmitigated, forcing in-flight projectiles to miss, and suppressing DoT's, all in the one button press.
...which can be completely disabled for a quarter of a f***ing minute by anyone with enough brain cells to pop a potion.
Cloak is the most unreliable defensive skill in the game — bar none. Imagine if there were potions that made your wings (or shields if you're a sorc) completely useless for 15 seconds. Now imagine having no viable burst heal & being forced to gear up as a glass cannon because that's the only way you can get decent burst. Sounds awful, doesn't it?
Old wings could also be shut down by 2 or more ranged who had the brains to spam light attack to hit the cap in 2 seconds at most.
Point being, old wings also had counters, and yet it was completely trashed, while cloak sits untouched, despite being way stronger than old wings in terms of what it actually offers. If you're gonna nerf wings with the "too hard to counter" excuse, nerf cloak, because it's more or less the exact same thing.
You're either slotting a potion that takes up the spot of other potions, spamming AoE's that are so damn small that you need to be sitting on top of the NB, or spamming detect skills which don't even work half the time, and cost an arm and a leg. All of which need you need to change your build to use. What was it that Sorc's and Nightblade's said regarding countering wings? "Yeah, we're totally going to switch to inferior skills to counter wings."
Bit of a double standard when you have to do the same with cloak, now, isn't it? So, where's the cloak nerf that turns it into a *** passive dodge?
Try playing the class some time if you think it's so OP.
Same can be said about old wings. You realise that you could literally cast wings, then half a second later, it'd drop since you're being pelted by ranged fire, right? You realise that certain projectiles ignored wings, namely projectile-based proc sets, right?
Everybody is fine asking for other class's tools being nerfed, until someone asks for your tools to be nerfed to pay back the favour. Old wings was neutered because of Sorc's and Nightblade's crying about how they didn't want to change their slotted skills, and yet we still need to change our slotted skills and consumables to counter your class's defensive tool? Get *** real.
Nightblade's wanted wings nerfed because they didn't want to adapt, so I'm just returning the favour. Eye for an eye, and all that jazz.
Um, I didn't ask for anything to get nerfed bro.
It'd be one thing if we were talking about having to slot skills on your bar, since you can't change those on the fly. But if you can't be bothered to slot a potion that you can easily switch to at will that will completely destroy a NBs defenses just in case you come up against one then you have no one to blame but yourself if you can't counter the most easily defeated skill in the game.
I have to play against NBs too you know, and I'd much rather go up against them than a templar or DK. Once I pop a potion & they're usually dead in 3-5 hits.
1. You can't change quickslots in combat.
2. Slotting the potion is not the point, using a potion that doesn't help me against anyone else except that Nightblade is the point.
3. Personally, I have no problem dealing with Nightblade's. I'm just pointing out the double standards at play here. Nightblade's asked for wings to be nerfed long ago, were told the options they could use to counter wings (or suggested new options Zenimax could add for them to counter wings), they said no, and continued crying for nerfs. But you ask for cloak to be nerfed, since cloak still requires you to change your build from how you usually play, and you're met with resistance from the Nightblade community, all the while Zenimax lets cloak go unharmed. Why do we allow old wings to be destroyed because of whiners who refused to L2P, while leaving cloak alone, just the same?
4. I can see how you think I'm specifically talking about you, I am getting worked up as what they did to wings and DK as a whole does anger me, but I'm not specifically talking about you. If you thought I was, I apologise. When I'm referring to those who wanted old wings nerfed, I'm specifically referring to those who were on the forums crying about it back then.0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭"wings was overloaded"
Laughs in Cloak, where you can disappear, negating all targeting, controlling disengagement and reengagement of fights, allowing heals from almost dead to 100% completely unmitigated, forcing in-flight projectiles to miss, and suppressing DoT's, all in the one button press.
...which can be completely disabled for a quarter of a f***ing minute by anyone with enough brain cells to pop a potion.
Cloak is the most unreliable defensive skill in the game — bar none. Imagine if there were potions that made your wings (or shields if you're a sorc) completely useless for 15 seconds. Now imagine having no viable burst heal & being forced to gear up as a glass cannon because that's the only way you can get decent burst. Sounds awful, doesn't it?
Old wings could also be shut down by 2 or more ranged who had the brains to spam light attack to hit the cap in 2 seconds at most.
Point being, old wings also had counters, and yet it was completely trashed, while cloak sits untouched, despite being way stronger than old wings in terms of what it actually offers. If you're gonna nerf wings with the "too hard to counter" excuse, nerf cloak, because it's more or less the exact same thing.
You're either slotting a potion that takes up the spot of other potions, spamming AoE's that are so damn small that you need to be sitting on top of the NB, or spamming detect skills which don't even work half the time, and cost an arm and a leg. All of which need you need to change your build to use. What was it that Sorc's and Nightblade's said regarding countering wings? "Yeah, we're totally going to switch to inferior skills to counter wings."
Bit of a double standard when you have to do the same with cloak, now, isn't it? So, where's the cloak nerf that turns it into a *** passive dodge?
Try playing the class some time if you think it's so OP.
Same can be said about old wings. You realise that you could literally cast wings, then half a second later, it'd drop since you're being pelted by ranged fire, right? You realise that certain projectiles ignored wings, namely projectile-based proc sets, right?
Everybody is fine asking for other class's tools being nerfed, until someone asks for your tools to be nerfed to pay back the favour. Old wings was neutered because of Sorc's and Nightblade's crying about how they didn't want to change their slotted skills, and yet we still need to change our slotted skills and consumables to counter your class's defensive tool? Get *** real.
Nightblade's wanted wings nerfed because they didn't want to adapt, so I'm just returning the favour. Eye for an eye, and all that jazz.
Um, I didn't ask for anything to get nerfed bro.
It'd be one thing if we were talking about having to slot skills on your bar, since you can't change those on the fly. But if you can't be bothered to slot a potion that you can easily switch to at will that will completely destroy a NBs defenses just in case you come up against one then you have no one to blame but yourself if you can't counter the most easily defeated skill in the game.
I have to play against NBs too you know, and I'd much rather go up against them than a templar or DK. Once I pop a potion & they're usually dead in 3-5 hits.
1. You can't change quickslots in combat.
2. Slotting the potion is not the point, using a potion that doesn't help me against anyone else except that Nightblade is the point.
3. Personally, I have no problem dealing with Nightblade's. I'm just pointing out the double standards at play here. Nightblade's asked for wings to be nerfed long ago, were told the options they could use to counter wings (or suggested new options Zenimax could add for them to counter wings), they said no, and continued crying for nerfs. But you ask for cloak to be nerfed, since cloak still requires you to change your build from how you usually play, and you're met with resistance from the Nightblade community, all the while Zenimax lets cloak go unharmed. Why do we allow old wings to be destroyed because of whiners who refused to L2P, while leaving cloak alone, just the same?
4. I can see how you think I'm specifically talking about you, I am getting worked up as what they did to wings and DK as a whole does anger me, but I'm not specifically talking about you. If you thought I was, I apologise. When I'm referring to those who wanted old wings nerfed, I'm specifically referring to those who were on the forums crying about it back then.
1. Yes you can, I do it all the time. I usually just have a cheap Magicka/Major Sorcery pot slotted — if I need detection, I just hold down Q & switch to an Essence of Detection potion, or if I need healing/stamina I swap to my tri-stat potions. All of this is done on the fly, in combat.
2. Well, there are potions that do more than just detect stealth. The Essence of Detection I mentioned above also grants Major Sorcery & restores 7.5k magicka, and I know there are potions that do other things as well. Obviously I'd rather be able to just use 1 or 2 potions, but I think saving a quickslot for detection (that also does other things I need) is a trivial price to pay.
3. I see what you're saying, but you're comparing apples & oranges. Until there's an easily purchased/crafted potion that turns off wings completely for a quarter of a minute, the two are just not equivalent.
I haven't needed to change my build at all to combat cloak, unless you consider crafting a few potions "changing my build."since cloak still requires you to change your build from how you usually play,
4. I appreciate the apology. I kind of figured that's what was going on, but I just wanted to clarify that I am not one of the people you are talking about. (Although to be honest, based on what I've read & what you've told me I may have been, had I played back then.) If anything though, I'd like to see healing "nerfed" — across the board.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. Like I said, I come up against just as many NBs as you or anyone else, & cloak is a minor annoyance at best. No one has to change their build to combat it.Edited by Langeston on October 26, 2019 4:46PM0