The issues related to logging in to the European PC/Mac megaserver have been resolved at this time. If you continue to experience difficulties at login, please restart your client. Thank you for your patience!
This just feels awful.
-
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »This past week I made some improvements to my gear, swapped out my stealth set for a dps one, started getting into alchemy for good pots etc. By all accounts, compared to a week ago I should be seeing a huge improvement. However I was struggling to maintain even the same numbers I had last week. I couldn't figure out what the hell I was doing wrong so I looked at the patch notes. Lo and behold I discover that the effectiveness of the majority of my build was cut almost in half. Like seriously...wtaf were these people thinking? Damage of abilities being cut by as much as 40-50%? Do you people not care at all about how garbage it feels to have all your effort just thrown out the window?
What incentive could I or anyone else in my position have to continue trying to improve my character when you pull crap like this?
So you're saying you had really high damage with a stealth set and your sustain was great without potions?
This is the problem with what happened in the first place. Damage was at a place where it was insanely high and people were getting into content far beyond their current skill level. That is something that should never have been allowed to happen in the first place and the new combat team is trying to reel in what happened.
Where did they say they had high dps? It sounds to me they had a fun "stealth" set and had to sacrifice it just to get back to the dps they had before.5 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »So you're saying you had really high damage with a stealth set and your sustain was great without potions?
This is the problem with what happened in the first place. Damage was at a place where it was insanely high and people were getting into content far beyond their current skill level. That is something that should never have been allowed to happen in the first place and the new combat team is trying to reel in what happened.
So since some "people were getting into content far beyond their current skill level", let's nerf everything to a point that these people can no longer enjoy the content? Brilliant.
For whatever reason, this update "just feels awful" to a lot of people. As been repeated ad nauseam in these forums and the PTS, the negative affects of this update will go far beyond their target nerf of ridiculously high DPS numbers of a tiny minority of players. Per usual, ZOS is deaf and attempts to discredit the messengers miss the point entirely.
16 -
darthgummibear_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »So you're saying you had really high damage with a stealth set and your sustain was great without potions?
This is the problem with what happened in the first place. Damage was at a place where it was insanely high and people were getting into content far beyond their current skill level. That is something that should never have been allowed to happen in the first place and the new combat team is trying to reel in what happened.
So since some "people were getting into content far beyond their current skill level", let's nerf everything to a point that these people can no longer enjoy the content? Brilliant.
For whatever reason, this update "just feels awful" to a lot of people. As been repeated ad nauseam in these forums and the PTS, the negative affects of this update will go far beyond their target nerf of ridiculously high DPS numbers of a tiny minority of players. Per usual, ZOS is deaf and attempts to discredit the messengers miss the point entirely.
I remember when Blizzard started ramping up the rate of their changes a couple expansions ago, to the point where one spec was removed from the game entirely. This was unfortunately my favorite spec in the game at the time, and I was never able to find another that clicked for me in the same way...I bounced from spec to spec quite a bit after that(playing less and less) until I finally left for good earlier this year.
In ESO with the release of the Elsweyr expansion, I finally found a setup that really clicks for me and is overall pretty enjoyable. Now while the actual gameplay loop of my setup feels the same as it did before, I'm far less effective for the same effort which like I said originally, feels awful. From what I've been reading this past week about the differences in how ZOS implements changes over the past year or two, I'm pretty concerned about the future direction of their balancing efforts.7 -
Veinblood1965✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »All the more time to decorate your house
Which is your favorite shrub?
"A shrubbery?! Right! (Sounds of coconuts banging together as Arthur's entourage gallops away). Knights all say: Neee! Neee! Neee!"
Not sure everyone will get that one.
What in the world are you talking about? Nee? I'll be you don't even know your favorite color.1 -
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭
When they say "play how you want" they don't mean dictate to them what your damage should be, even if the DPS you want might be OP compared with everyone else's.
Ahhh but no matter the numbers attached different styles of play should be viable. I play my MagTemp in PvP mainly and for almost the entire life of the game up until Scalebreaker I was built around putting down AOE dots and fighting large groups. Then they nerfed the crap out of the AOE's and buffed single target DOTS so I switched to using them, which I loved because they are so effective against characters that use superior mobility to avoid getting hit by sweeps/direct damage skills. Now both AOE and ST DOTS are nerfed to the point of being completely ineffective (and AOE's are ridiculously expensive) so the only play style left that is viable for PvP is lining up a burst of DD skills. Being forced into a play style I don't feel any affinity for is not my idea of "fun".Edited by itscompton on October 25, 2019 8:48PM5 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »So you're saying you had really high damage with a stealth set and your sustain was great without potions?
This is the problem with what happened in the first place. Damage was at a place where it was insanely high and people were getting into content far beyond their current skill level. That is something that should never have been allowed to happen in the first place and the new combat team is trying to reel in what happened.
Do you guys read some of the crap you write before posting? Plain idiotic. Zos could nerf everything down so no one could do any content, does that mean you shouldn't have been there in the first place?
Edited by Mr_Walker on October 25, 2019 9:34PM4 -
SirDopey✭✭✭✭✭
✭TriangularChicken wrote: »have you tried getting good without crutchin on DoTs? you know there are other skills out there than soul trap and entropy.
obviously never played a stamdk or just a Dk for that matter...NA PC | AD
xx Doc Holliday xx2 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »A lot of the people in this thread seemed to have missed the point. If a relatively casual player like myself notices the difference to this extent there is something wrong.
I'm not a competitive raider, and I rarely pvp. I spent most of what I had getting my new gear up to par, and it's really demoralizing to have my efforts in trying to improve my character mean nothing. What was the point of these rather extreme changes? What is their intended goal? If I manage to "fix" things in a way that's fun for me, will I be in this same spot again after their next update?
As a relatively casual player myself I actually have not noticed much of a change. What do you play as? I just soloed my first normal dungeon and first VMA run on my stam sorc. My mag sorc seems fine. As does my stamplar. My necros are ok as well. I havnt checked any other builds yet.0 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the change is noticeable...in sustained damage scenarios it feels like stuff dies about 1/3 slower...
at the same time there are these weird burst damage spike in solo scenarios where enemies immediately die for some reason... for example i notice this in maelstrom arena...normal... not sure if they changed anything here0 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeah it does feel awful. I don't even do numbers, I refuse to parse because putting that sort of pressure on ruins any fun left in the game (plus it destroys my wrists/shoulders). So I don't know anything about my numbers. What I do know is that I'm noticeably taking a lot longer to kill stuff, taking more damage, dying a lot more, and having a lot less fun because the struggling is very distracting. You put it perfectly, it feels awful.8 -
I'm not that bothered by the changes. I had just reached over 600 cp and had just got all my vMA gear ready and was about to start that adventure on my mag pet sorc build...when the PTS patch notes hit.
Now I'm off playing something else which is more interesting to me at the moment, and just logging to do a couple daily crafts.4 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭victory.immortalb16_ESO wrote: »I'm not that bothered by the changes. I had just reached over 600 cp and had just got all my vMA gear ready and was about to start that adventure on my mag pet sorc build...when the PTS patch notes hit.
Now I'm off playing something else which is more interesting to me at the moment, and just logging to do a couple daily crafts.
Same with me. Its amazing how a bad patch can make you forget about this game overnight.4 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »This past week I made some improvements to my gear, swapped out my stealth set for a dps one, started getting into alchemy for good pots etc. By all accounts, compared to a week ago I should be seeing a huge improvement. However I was struggling to maintain even the same numbers I had last week. I couldn't figure out what the hell I was doing wrong so I looked at the patch notes. Lo and behold I discover that the effectiveness of the majority of my build was cut almost in half. Like seriously...wtaf were these people thinking? Damage of abilities being cut by as much as 40-50%? Do you people not care at all about how garbage it feels to have all your effort just thrown out the window?
What incentive could I or anyone else in my position have to continue trying to improve my character when you pull crap like this?
The incentive is that you hereby are contributing to the development of the final product which is scheduled somewhere around 2027. When this glorious day arrives you will be proud to have sacrificed your wallet, your time, your humanity and ultimately your soul.
Im kidding of course. But I feel your pain, when will it end? Will the nerfs and the changes continue for eternity?5 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why so worried about numbers in a game you play for fun?
Most people are competitive by nature, even if you are only competing against your previous best score/time/achievement. Fun is just a bonus, achievement is what's most satisfying about games, video or otherwise..... to many people.0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »This past week I made some improvements to my gear, swapped out my stealth set for a dps one, started getting into alchemy for good pots etc. By all accounts, compared to a week ago I should be seeing a huge improvement. However I was struggling to maintain even the same numbers I had last week. I couldn't figure out what the hell I was doing wrong so I looked at the patch notes. Lo and behold I discover that the effectiveness of the majority of my build was cut almost in half. Like seriously...wtaf were these people thinking? Damage of abilities being cut by as much as 40-50%? Do you people not care at all about how garbage it feels to have all your effort just thrown out the window?
What incentive could I or anyone else in my position have to continue trying to improve my character when you pull crap like this?
So you're saying you had really high damage with a stealth set and your sustain was great without potions?
This is the problem with what happened in the first place. Damage was at a place where it was insanely high and people were getting into content far beyond their current skill level. That is something that should never have been allowed to happen in the first place and the new combat team is trying to reel in what happened.
Where did they say they had high dps? It sounds to me they had a fun "stealth" set and had to sacrifice it just to get back to the dps they had before.
ZOS has explicitly stated that they don't want people to "have it all", they want us to have to choose what to prioritize, at the cost of other options. They said that with stealth, and they said that with speed.0 -
Numerikuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »Adapt to overcome
Adapt by playing other games that are actually fun, for instance
7 -
xxthir13enxx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »All the more time to decorate your house
Which is your favorite shrub?
"A shrubbery?! Right! (Sounds of coconuts banging together as Arthur's entourage gallops away). Knights all say: Neee! Neee! Neee!"
Not sure everyone will get that one.
No worries...plenty of us around still follow the teachings of old...
https://youtu.be/zIV4poUZAQo 1 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You obviously never even looked at the "class identity" of a Mag Sorc.TriangularChicken wrote: »have you tried getting good without crutchin on DoTs? you know there are other skills out there than soul trap and entropy.
The class skills are literally DoTs wrapped in a thick layer of DoTs and then doused in a gravy made from leftover DoTs.
2 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So. What is your parse?CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »This past week I made some improvements to my gear, swapped out my stealth set for a dps one, started getting into alchemy for good pots etc. By all accounts, compared to a week ago I should be seeing a huge improvement. However I was struggling to maintain even the same numbers I had last week. I couldn't figure out what the hell I was doing wrong so I looked at the patch notes. Lo and behold I discover that the effectiveness of the majority of my build was cut almost in half. Like seriously...wtaf were these people thinking? Damage of abilities being cut by as much as 40-50%? Do you people not care at all about how garbage it feels to have all your effort just thrown out the window?
What incentive could I or anyone else in my position have to continue trying to improve my character when you pull crap like this?
So you're saying you had really high damage with a stealth set and your sustain was great without potions?
This is the problem with what happened in the first place. Damage was at a place where it was insanely high and people were getting into content far beyond their current skill level. That is something that should never have been allowed to happen in the first place and the new combat team is trying to reel in what happened.
Where did they say they had high dps? It sounds to me they had a fun "stealth" set and had to sacrifice it just to get back to the dps they had before.
ZOS has explicitly stated that they don't want people to "have it all", they want us to have to choose what to prioritize, at the cost of other options. They said that with stealth, and they said that with speed.
I don’t understand this response.
The person had a dps number that they had while wearing a stealth set. Now even without the set and with some other improvements they are back to the same dps. They never claimed the actual dps number, it could have been quite low.
Is the choice now that wearing a stealth set translates to having zero dps? Is wearing a stealth set mean the player should be helpless in a fight?
“Having it all” implies high dps and stealth, but where is the evidence that was happening here?2 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭How does your current DPS build and class compare with other current DPS builds and classes?
That is all that really matters, in an MMO.
Comparing yourself with what used to be is pretty pointless.
In other games, for example, another x number of levels is added and even top level raid gear, from the previous xpac, becomes obselete almost immediately.
As long as your class and build is still competitive with others, you just adapt and carry on.
Not really.
I deal acceptable damage in trials, especially because the guild demands I keep using the old and useless abilities (to ME) that provide useful buffs to other people.
And you know what? I am ok, I am going to be the "one who takes it for the team".
What I am not OK with is that now I get out of magicka so fast and so hard. Even playing an heavy attack build (the epitome of not fun!) some times I have to add a second heavy attack!
It's BORING, it's BORING to tears and since hm vMOL the trials require people to be quick and mobile. Require having "runners" for portals, backyards, upper rooms and whatsnot.
... and you are stuck there, heavy attacking, then heavy attacking till you get blue balls.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO3 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »This past week I made some improvements to my gear, swapped out my stealth set for a dps one, started getting into alchemy for good pots etc. By all accounts, compared to a week ago I should be seeing a huge improvement. However I was struggling to maintain even the same numbers I had last week. I couldn't figure out what the hell I was doing wrong so I looked at the patch notes. Lo and behold I discover that the effectiveness of the majority of my build was cut almost in half. Like seriously...wtaf were these people thinking? Damage of abilities being cut by as much as 40-50%? Do you people not care at all about how garbage it feels to have all your effort just thrown out the window?
What incentive could I or anyone else in my position have to continue trying to improve my character when you pull crap like this?
So you're saying you had really high damage with a stealth set and your sustain was great without potions?
This is the problem with what happened in the first place. Damage was at a place where it was insanely high and people were getting into content far beyond their current skill level. That is something that should never have been allowed to happen in the first place and the new combat team is trying to reel in what happened.
Where did they say they had high dps? It sounds to me they had a fun "stealth" set and had to sacrifice it just to get back to the dps they had before.
ZOS has explicitly stated that they don't want people to "have it all", they want us to have to choose what to prioritize, at the cost of other options. They said that with stealth, and they said that with speed.
I don’t understand this response.
The person had a dps number that they had while wearing a stealth set. Now even without the set and with some other improvements they are back to the same dps. They never claimed the actual dps number, it could have been quite low.
Is the choice now that wearing a stealth set translates to having zero dps? Is wearing a stealth set mean the player should be helpless in a fight?
“Having it all” implies high dps and stealth, but where is the evidence that was happening here?
You said that they may have had to sacrifice a fun stealth set to get back to their pre-patch DPS. And ZOS has said that they want people to have the ability to reach 100% max possible stealth or speed, but at the cost of other things, such as DPS, sustain, etc. Here is an example:
And you know very well that we discussed this at length in a now closed thread about how Bosmer can still reach the stealth cap, but they now have to give up utility or damage or defense sets to run three stealth sets, due to the stripping of their racial stealth. And the mantra is evident with Update 24, as they whittle away DPS and force people to sacrifice other things, such as defense or sustain (or, as in this particular case, stealth) in order for players to maintain the DPS that they are used to.
It's pretty common knowledge that the three stealth sets in game are not optimal damage sets. So, yes, the player who gives up his stealth set can see an improvement to pre-patch levels by wearing a more damage oriented set. But he will still need to carry around a change of clothes if he wants to suddenly start stealing and improve his chances of not being detected.
Edited by Jaraal on October 26, 2019 7:48AM1 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »So you're saying you had really high damage with a stealth set and your sustain was great without potions?
This is the problem with what happened in the first place. Damage was at a place where it was insanely high and people were getting into content far beyond their current skill level. That is something that should never have been allowed to happen in the first place and the new combat team is trying to reel in what happened.
Do you guys read some of the crap you write before posting? Plain idiotic. Zos could nerf everything down so no one could do any content, does that mean you shouldn't have been there in the first place?
Couldn't agree more. Most of the content isn't the problem because even most dlc vet dungeons can be done with 20k dps which is attainable by almost everyone.
There are, however, plenty of attitudes that are the problem.
A question to ponder, @Rave the Histborn , how is a player supposed to improve their performance in any given content without playing that content? Everyone had a first vMA run that took hours; everyone stepped into their first dungeon without playing that content before.
I'm not saying we need to remove the player skill aspects of combat, it's personally my favorite part and it gives players something to strive for, but some of the groups requiring ridiculous dps in the group finder are part of the problem."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard2 -
tahol10069✭✭✭✭MagBlade here. I struggle with sustain like no ones business. It wasn't great to begin with, and now it is ridicilous. I also don't understand the supernerfing of Entropy. If it was too powerful, then why not just nerf the damage, why go all the way and throw the child out with the bathwater too? What is the reasoning in this? Balancind should mean BALANCING, not gutting the whole skill. I still use Entropy, but it doesn't give me even magicka now.2 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How many players in this thread started working on their Dragonhold build when the combat changes were loaded into PTS the middle of September?
Exactly.0 -
Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stamsorc here. I had good dps but not top tier dps. I cleared vMoL HM, vSS HM, etc... but let's say most of the time I'm the lowest dps on the logs.
I totally understand how bad the impact on dps is, it didn't directly impact me as I practiced a lot on PTS to compensate, so my dps didn't move much, and can potentially be even better. But I see on most people in my trial guild that it's a net loss. That they can't get back, because they were closer to the DPS cap.
Now. I think these changes are not that bad, and there are interesting new mechanics and sources of debuff (Stagger, the new Swarm, 8s debuff from Pestilent Colossus), that help a lot in group play.
The issue is that it takes resources to adapt (Time, gold, mats), and not everyone can afford that. And casuals took a very big hit to their dps, making PUGs even less safe for now. I know for sure most people are not invested enough to take the nerf with a smile and just put extra efforts, but I know I will help the people struggling around me if I can. Because it's definitely a step back for anyone not prepared, or already at the top.
It's the one time I was happy not to be "" good"", because it meant I still had an extra card to get dps back.PC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.
All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH1 -
fierackas✭✭✭✭✭Did my first trial since the patch last night on my bow/bow stamden and was mortified how quickly I was running out of resources. Heavy attacking on a bow build is extremely tedious!1
