VaranisArano wrote: »

Oh, and if you already own those crowns, whelp, they already have your money. Too late!

^^ This,
however a catch!!! If OP spends these crowns, then ZoS can again get some more money from him as he'd need to buy more crowns for his next purchase.

pdblake wrote: »

Well, just looking at the Pocket Watcher threads, it's clear they could make more sales with lower prices. Why sell a few hundred of something at 1000 crowns a throw when you could sell thousands at 500 (figures not to actual scale, I have no idea how many sales they make).

And all the crowns I get come through my sub, so they're basically free as I'd be paying for the sub either way. In fact I have so little interest in the crown store that I just buy crates with the free crowns and then turn the gems into riding lessons, so I get a bit of everything, but ulitimately nothing that really interests me.

Alas, I have been seeing more and more of these pocket watcher pets in the game so perhaps their strategy is working (at least from a purely financial perspective).

If you already got the crowns, they already got the money. Sorry to break it to you, they don't care

Raideen wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Fortunately for ZOS' accounting department, ESO has many players. Enough of them will buy crowns for those items at the set price to make the accountants very happy.

Its unfortunately for you, but ZOS' accountants do not need your money and so do not need to lower prices. Maybe someday, they will have a limited time sales to see if they can take your money too. If you don't spend your money on crowns to buy sale items, oh well. There are many players who will take advantage of the sales.

Oh, and if you already own those crowns, whelp, they already have your money. Too late!

WOW, that is...the most...wow.

That is NOT how your treat customers. You completely fail to understand that the OP is not an isolated case.

WOW...I am flabbergasted that you would suggest that ESO does not need a players money. Are you by chance the lead art director for ESO, because If I am correct, he said the same thing.

Firstly, ZOS has always treated their customers badly when it came to the Crown Store. Secondly, ZOS earns a lot more on 'whales' than people like the OP, and I doubt they would miss his money.

Raideen wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Fortunately for ZOS' accounting department, ESO has many players. Enough of them will buy crowns for those items at the set price to make the accountants very happy.

Its unfortunately for you, but ZOS' accountants do not need your money and so do not need to lower prices. Maybe someday, they will have a limited time sales to see if they can take your money too. If you don't spend your money on crowns to buy sale items, oh well. There are many players who will take advantage of the sales.

Oh, and if you already own those crowns, whelp, they already have your money. Too late!

WOW, that is...the most...wow.

That is NOT how your treat customers. You completely fail to understand that the OP is not an isolated case.

WOW...I am flabbergasted that you would suggest that ESO does not need a players money. Are you by chance the lead art director for ESO, because If I am correct, he said the same thing.

A. Do me a favor and don't mistake me discussing ZOS' business plan in the economic sense with me approving of it. It absolutely sucks for players like the OP who want to get items for cheaper.

Don't like it? Take it up with ZOS. I'm just explaining the economic reasoning behind ZOS' rather coldhearted, profit-driven business plan and why that means they are extremely unlikely to do what the OP wants, barring the accounting department, marketing and shareholders all being visited by the Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present, and Future. I don't like their business plan, but I understand it.


B. "I am flabbergasted that you would suggest that ESO does not need a players money."

That's pretty basic economics, actually. No company needs every single customer's money when they have plenty of other customers who are willing to buy at the set price, which generates the level of profit the company wants. That's supply and demand, specifically demand.

Is it great for every consumer? Nope. Its not great for consumers who don't want to pay the set price.

Are most companies great for every consumer? Nope. Yet they persist and profit because there are sufficient consumers who will pay the set price.

In a purely economic sense, as long as a company is making their desired profit with high enough demand at their set price, they don't need the money of people who want a lower price.

I mean, its a little like me walking into a storefront with set prices and whining that the prices are higher than I want to pay. No one at corporate needs my money badly enough to lower prices. There are plenty of other customers willing to pay their prices, more than enough to make their desired profit without having to lower prices at all. The most I'll accomplish is bullying some poor customer service rep who has to try not to offend me when I don't get what I want. (Some companies that deal in negotiation work differently within reason, but that's not how the Crown Store works, so that's a tangent I shan't explore.)

One thing we can tell is true of ZOS is they have plenty of players who are willing to buy Crowns and Crown Store items at the current prices, enough that ZOS is making their desired profit from those items. I don't know the source for the lead art director's quote to see if that's what they mean in context, but assuming your recollection is correct, they were making a blunt, but ultimately correct assessment. Economically, ESO does not need the money of every player, especially not money that only comes from dramatically slashing prices that already have sufficient demand. Or to point to another common request, selling the Craft Bag and therefore devaluing ESO+.


Now from a purely Customer Service viewpoint where companies should strive to give customers whatever they want at whatever price they want, all the above economic reasoning is the mark of a horrible company. Certainly, one should never do anything so crass as to point out in essence "We set those prices at a level people will buy them. Plenty of people do buy them at the price, enough that we aren't changing it. Pay the price or do without. We don't need your money."
It's crass.
It's blunt.
Its bad customer service to come right out and say it.
It offends players who want to hear that they are valued customers at all times, even when they are asking for discounts it just doesn't make economic sense to give.

Its also economically accurate. That's why its ZOS' business plan (and the business plan of most other companies) whether we like it or don't. I don't like it, but as I said, I understand it.

Raideen wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Fortunately for ZOS' accounting department, ESO has many players. Enough of them will buy crowns for those items at the set price to make the accountants very happy.

Its unfortunately for you, but ZOS' accountants do not need your money and so do not need to lower prices. Maybe someday, they will have a limited time sales to see if they can take your money too. If you don't spend your money on crowns to buy sale items, oh well. There are many players who will take advantage of the sales.

Oh, and if you already own those crowns, whelp, they already have your money. Too late!

WOW, that is...the most...wow.

That is NOT how your treat customers. You completely fail to understand that the OP is not an isolated case.

WOW...I am flabbergasted that you would suggest that ESO does not need a players money. Are you by chance the lead art director for ESO, because If I am correct, he said the same thing.

A. Do me a favor and don't mistake me discussing ZOS' business plan in the economic sense with me approving of it. It absolutely sucks for players like the OP who want to get items for cheaper.

Don't like it? Take it up with ZOS. I'm just explaining the economic reasoning behind ZOS' rather coldhearted, profit-driven business plan and why that means they are extremely unlikely to do what the OP wants, barring the accounting department, marketing and shareholders all being visited by the Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present, and Future. I don't like their business plan, but I understand it.


B. "I am flabbergasted that you would suggest that ESO does not need a players money."

That's pretty basic economics, actually. No company needs every single customer's money when they have plenty of other customers who are willing to buy at the set price, which generates the level of profit the company wants. That's supply and demand, specifically demand.

Is it great for every consumer? Nope. Its not great for consumers who don't want to pay the set price.

Are most companies great for every consumer? Nope. Yet they persist and profit because there are sufficient consumers who will pay the set price.

In a purely economic sense, as long as a company is making their desired profit with high enough demand at their set price, they don't need the money of people who want a lower price.

I mean, its a little like me walking into a storefront with set prices and whining that the prices are higher than I want to pay. No one at corporate needs my money badly enough to lower prices. There are plenty of other customers willing to pay their prices, more than enough to make their desired profit without having to lower prices at all. The most I'll accomplish is bullying some poor customer service rep who has to try not to offend me when I don't get what I want. (Some companies that deal in negotiation work differently within reason, but that's not how the Crown Store works, so that's a tangent I shan't explore.)

in thing we can tell is true of ZOS is they have plenty of players who are willing to buy Crowns and Crown Store items at the current prices, enough that ZOS is making their desired profit from those items. I don't know the source for the lead art director's quote to see if that's what they mean in context, but assuming your recollection is correct, they were making a blunt, but ultimately correct assessment. Economically, ESO does not need the money of every player, especially not money that only comes from dramatically slashing prices that already have sufficient demand. Or to point to another common request, selling the Craft Bag and therefore devaluing ESO+.


Now from a purely Customer Service viewpoint where companies should strive to give customers whatever they want at whatever price they want, all the above economic reasoning is the mark of a horrible company. Certainly, one should never do anything so crass as to point out in essence "We set those prices at a level people will buy them. Plenty of people do buy them at the price, enough that we aren't changing it. Pay the price or do without. We don't need your money."
It's crass.
It's blunt.
Its bad customer service to come right out and say it.
It offends players who want to hear that they are valued customers at all times, even when they are asking for discounts it just doesn't make economic sense to give.

Its also economically accurate. That's why its ZOS' business plan (and the business plan of most other companies) whether we like it or don't. I don't like it, but as I said, I understand it.

I am not arguing about their crummy business model and I am aware of what you wrote about (I feel bad that you wrote so much that was ultimately unnecessary).

My point is that you should not express " ZOS accountants do not need your money" to any customer, ever, especially with todays social media. Word gets out that some of your customers are not "good enough", it could have some serious backlash.

Its the exact same thing as when the EA dev said "we don't want you to play our game" about BFV...and look where that got them.

That is my point.

Of course if you want to sabotage ZO$ as a business then ya, promote the idea that ZO$ does not need our money all day.

Okay, yeah, I understand you now.

You are right. Its bad customer service to come out and say it, even though it's true. Which would matter if I worked for ZOS - I suspect its rather obvious at this point why I don't . Again, I don't have the source to comment on what the lead art director said.

I say what I've said not to sabotage anyone, but because it's economically accurate. The OP's request has no chance because it doesnt make economic sense for ZOS.
Customer Service is about putting a nice, friendly gloss over the economic reality that companies don't need any one customer's money as long as there are plenty of other customers willing to pay.

When I talk economics, I'm not one to offer much false hope when there is none. ZOS is the type of company where requests for changes to the Crown Store have to make economic sense if they have a hope and prayer of happening, which makes the accountants happy because economic reality and profit is their job. It's a fantastic business plan for ZOS. Its just not good for players like the OP who want more items at lower prices, and I don't see the point of sugarcoating that. I enjoy discussing economic reality, and I'm sure not getting paid to provide customer service.

dagrdagaz_5912 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its just not good for players like the OP who want more items at lower prices, and I don't see the point of sugarcoating that. I enjoy discussing economic reality, and I'm sure not getting paid to provide customer service.

Yes and no.
Please STOP focusing on my requested/mentioned cheaper item(s).
Yes, there r items i would like to see cheaper.
But focusing on that may sideline my main point for this topic.
Wich is many more products in the CS, and products much longer in the CS.


Also focusing on 'whales' and what i like to see dont need be mutual exclusive.
Say, keep (nearly) all 1300-2000 crowns mounts in the CS permanently.
And have the 2500+ crowns mounts limited time offer.
Or, keep (nearly) all 700 crowns or less pets in the CS permanently,
And have the 1000 Crowns pets limited time offer.

Now, direct CS products may be removed to after a while be added to new Crown Crates.
These previous Crown Crates i would like to see also more often and longer in the CS.
Last year there were a few weeks where most previous Crown Crates returned for a week to the CS.
Well, maybe not many players still need/want something from previous Crown Crates.
But new players might.
And the simple fact, if its not available it can not be purchased at all

Now Zo$ may see nice sales for these limited time offers, but that may just as well be simply becos the item is new and available in the CS.

If that was your main point, sorry, it wasnt entirely clear from the first post. Thanks for clarifying.

In any case, you kinda hit the nail on the head with "Now Zo$ may see nice sales for these limited time offers, but that may just as well be simply becos the item is new and available in the CS."

Again, the whole limited inventory, limited availability, limited time offer thing isn't great for customers. It's artificial scarcity and it makes a fair bit of economic sense for ZOS. Removing items and bringing them back for limited time sales or in crown crates is another thing that sucks for customers, but lets ZOS milk those items for more purchases.

Here's the Customer Service answer (yes, its as bad as you expect): https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/28916/~/why-are-you-removing-crown-store-items?

For context, here's a thread from 2016 talking about more or less the same thing you are with limited time items and limited CS inventory: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/283245/why-remove-items-from-the-crownstore

And another from 2015: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/193799/removed-items-from-crown-store

Truth be told, I'm looking back at the earliest threads after the Crown Store was introduced and seeing pretty much the same complaints...and the same answers. ZOS uses this business model because artificial scarcity and limited time offers are good for generating purchases.

Its an old complaint, though not unjustified.
ZOS just doesn't seem to care about changing their practices to address that complaint.

Sorry, its probably not very encouraging of me to point of that limited time offers/limited CS inventory has been a source of player complaints for years and yet ZOS seems pretty resolute in sticking with their business plan anyways. Economically, its working out well for ZOS.

One other thing i was wondering about these limited time offers.

Say its for sale for a few weeks a year. It makes a certain amount of profit.
Now look at the whole year, how much profit did it make on a yearly basis.
More or less if it was available the whole year ?!

If the product/item does not return, how much profit did it make for a period of multiple years ?!
Now if the product/item is for sale for multiple years, what would its profit for a period of multiple years then be ?!

dagrdagaz_5912 wrote: »

One other thing i was wondering about these limited time offers.

Say its for sale for a few weeks a year. It makes a certain amount of profit.
Now look at the whole year, how much profit did it make on a yearly basis.
More or less if it was available the whole year ?!

If the product/item does not return, how much profit did it make for a period of multiple years ?!
Now if the product/item is for sale for multiple years, what would its profit for a period of multiple years then be ?!

You are technically correct. Without ZOS' sales data, we can still guess that ZOS would theoretically make more sales from leaving expensive houses in the CS.

However, that's not ZOS does, and here's some of the economic theory that explains why.

When big-ticket items sit around all year, people wait to buy them. In particular, they wait for a Crown Sale and then buy the item for effectively half off. Instead, "Limited Time Only" in marketing speak is "spend your money now!" Its a marketing technique creating artificial scarcity in order to drive up immediate demand. In ZOS' case, big-ticket houses serve as a "spend your saved crowns, or buy more crowns if you want this item" designed to pull stored crowns out of the economy at particular times. If ZOS leaves them in the store constantly, they can't use them as tools of manipulate the crown economy nor do the sales benefit from the appearance of artificial scarcity as more players are likely to wait to purchase. Smaller items like cosmetics and costumes tend to reappear in limited sales (artificial demand) or in Crown Crates, where they artificially inflate the value without adding new offerings and attracting buyers who missed it the first time.

In many cases, its also a mistake to assume that the company wants the maximum amount of profit possible on a single item. Instead, there's the concept of "diminishing returns". ZOS doesnt need to hit a maximum profit per year per item, so long as they hit their targeted profit per year. Combined with artificial scarcity, that's a big part in why ZOS rotates items through their Crown Store. Digital Items don't have a self life, but by adding and removing items, ZOS is able to create two sales peaks when they arrive and right before they leave, repeated every time they come back to the store (which also inflates the future years' profit per year per item when it returns). Potentially, ZOS spreads the sales out to,Crown Crates, with repeated costumes. Again, ZOS doesnt actually need to extract a "higher' profit per year per item, as long as they hit their target.

From an economic viewpoint, releasing expensive houses for short periods and returning them infrequently serves ZOS quite well.
It lets them generate artificial scarcity. "ZOS where is Grand Topal Island, I want it!"
It lets them generate artificial demand when the item leaves the CS and each time it returns. "I have to buy it now or it will be gone!"
It lets them put smaller items like cosmetics and costumes into Crown Crates to artificily inflate their value with low effort.
It lets them pull some measure of saved crowns out of the economy while tempting others to buy more, on ZOS' timetable...such as a month or two before the forums expect there to be a holiday sale on Crowns?


So there are a number of economic benefits to ZOS that explain why ZOS doesn't chase after the theoretically maximum number of sales or give players their full freedom to decide when and how they want to buy from a full range of continually available expensive houses. Even though, theoretically, it seems like they are idiots for leaving profit on the table.

In many cases, its also a mistake to assume that the company wants the maximum amount of profit possible on a single item. Instead, there's the concept of "diminishing returns". ZOS doesnt need to hit a maximum profit per year per item, so long as they hit their targeted profit per year

I was starting to think in this direction.
That Zo$ just aims for the highest-profit-period, wich is the first few weeks (few months) after a new item release.

And i guess they think(know?) with a small(er) variety of stuff in the CS, players are more inclined to buy the new stuff.
Hmm, not me, but i suppose enough others do then.

Goregrinder wrote: »

Should I not have just bought 21,000 crowns?

Only you can answer that.