Zo$ does not want my crowns / money

dagrdagaz_5912

More then a month ago i wanted 2 music boxes for houses i was decorating.
I could not buy them, they were not available in the crown store.
Thats 1600 crowns not spend.

A few weeks ago i got Elsweyr, and created a new necro char.
For this char i was considering getting a new mount.
If i could find one i liked in the crown store (for max 2500 crows).
I could not, from all the mounts in the game only a few are currently in the crown store.
Thats max 2500 crowns not spend.

Then horse riding lessons for my new char.
Using the gold ingame method takes half a year, not liking doing that again.
But 1000 crowns for 10 lessons ?! Imho, or to me, insanely to much.
Five times cheaper i would have spend 3000 crowns on 150 horse lessons.
Now zero, so 3000 crowns not spend.

On the positive side i could thank Zo$ for preventing me from spending
like 7100 crowns.
But i post this to express my feelings of being a not satisfied customer.
And to mention that the reasons i could not / did not spend crowns is imo bad customer service.

ChunkyCat

Well, if you really want to give your money away, I’ll take it.

That’s what friends are for.

VaranisArano

Fortunately for ZOS' accounting department, ESO has many players. Enough of them will buy crowns for those items at the set price to make the accountants very happy.

Its unfortunately for you, but ZOS' accountants do not need your money and so do not need to lower prices. Maybe someday, they will have a limited time sales to see if they can take your money too. If you don't spend your money on crowns to buy sale items, oh well. There are many players who will take advantage of the sales.

Oh, and if you already own those crowns, whelp, they already have your money. Too late!

UrbanMonk

VaranisArano wrote: »

Oh, and if you already own those crowns, whelp, they already have your money. Too late!

^^ This,
however a catch!!! If OP spends these crowns, then ZoS can again get some more money from him as he'd need to buy more crowns for his next purchase.

pdblake

Well, just looking at the Pocket Watcher threads, it's clear they could make more sales with lower prices. Why sell a few hundred of something at 1000 crowns a throw when you could sell thousands at 500 (figures not to actual scale, I have no idea how many sales they make).

And all the crowns I get come through my sub, so they're basically free as I'd be paying for the sub either way. In fact I have so little interest in the crown store that I just buy crates with the free crowns and then turn the gems into riding lessons, so I get a bit of everything, but ulitimately nothing that really interests me.

Araneae6537

pdblake wrote: »

Well, just looking at the Pocket Watcher threads, it's clear they could make more sales with lower prices. Why sell a few hundred of something at 1000 crowns a throw when you could sell thousands at 500 (figures not to actual scale, I have no idea how many sales they make).

And all the crowns I get come through my sub, so they're basically free as I'd be paying for the sub either way. In fact I have so little interest in the crown store that I just buy crates with the free crowns and then turn the gems into riding lessons, so I get a bit of everything, but ulitimately nothing that really interests me.

Alas, I have been seeing more and more of these pocket watcher pets in the game so perhaps their strategy is working (at least from a purely financial perspective).

idk

So you complain if you cannot find something and when you do you complain about the price. I see a pattern here.

TelvanniWizard

Op, I have the same problem. If we had a shop filled always with stuff I would buy lots of things. Buy everything I could want hasn't been available for months (or years), or is locked behind gambling, wich I won't do.

Araneae6537

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

Op, I have the same problem. If we had a shop filled always with stuff I would buy lots of things. Buy everything I could want hasn't been available for months (or years), or is locked behind gambling, wich I won't do.

Limited availability can be frustrating if you miss it, but isn’t nearly as bad as locking stuff behind paying for RNG, which I won’t do either. Of course, having something occasionally available for a limited time is a strategy to increase sales; not having something available for years makes absolutely no sense that I can see.

magictucktuck

If you already got the crowns, they already got the money. Sorry to break it to you, they don't care

Raideen

VaranisArano wrote: »

Fortunately for ZOS' accounting department, ESO has many players. Enough of them will buy crowns for those items at the set price to make the accountants very happy.

Its unfortunately for you, but ZOS' accountants do not need your money and so do not need to lower prices. Maybe someday, they will have a limited time sales to see if they can take your money too. If you don't spend your money on crowns to buy sale items, oh well. There are many players who will take advantage of the sales.

Oh, and if you already own those crowns, whelp, they already have your money. Too late!

WOW, that is...the most...wow.

That is NOT how your treat customers. You completely fail to understand that the OP is not an isolated case.

WOW...I am flabbergasted that you would suggest that ESO does not need a players money. Are you by chance the lead art director for ESO, because If I am correct, he said the same thing.

sionIV

Raideen wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Fortunately for ZOS' accounting department, ESO has many players. Enough of them will buy crowns for those items at the set price to make the accountants very happy.

Its unfortunately for you, but ZOS' accountants do not need your money and so do not need to lower prices. Maybe someday, they will have a limited time sales to see if they can take your money too. If you don't spend your money on crowns to buy sale items, oh well. There are many players who will take advantage of the sales.

Oh, and if you already own those crowns, whelp, they already have your money. Too late!

WOW, that is...the most...wow.

That is NOT how your treat customers. You completely fail to understand that the OP is not an isolated case.

WOW...I am flabbergasted that you would suggest that ESO does not need a players money. Are you by chance the lead art director for ESO, because If I am correct, he said the same thing.

Firstly, ZOS has always treated their customers badly when it came to the Crown Store. Secondly, ZOS earns a lot more on 'whales' than people like the OP, and I doubt they would miss his money.

Mr_Walker

ErinM31 wrote: »

pdblake wrote: »

Well, just looking at the Pocket Watcher threads, it's clear they could make more sales with lower prices. Why sell a few hundred of something at 1000 crowns a throw when you could sell thousands at 500 (figures not to actual scale, I have no idea how many sales they make).

And all the crowns I get come through my sub, so they're basically free as I'd be paying for the sub either way. In fact I have so little interest in the crown store that I just buy crates with the free crowns and then turn the gems into riding lessons, so I get a bit of everything, but ulitimately nothing that really interests me.

Alas, I have been seeing more and more of these pocket watcher pets in the game so perhaps their strategy is working (at least from a purely financial perspective).

Really? I'm on XNA, and I've seen maybe 3 of them?

VaranisArano

Raideen wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Fortunately for ZOS' accounting department, ESO has many players. Enough of them will buy crowns for those items at the set price to make the accountants very happy.

Its unfortunately for you, but ZOS' accountants do not need your money and so do not need to lower prices. Maybe someday, they will have a limited time sales to see if they can take your money too. If you don't spend your money on crowns to buy sale items, oh well. There are many players who will take advantage of the sales.

Oh, and if you already own those crowns, whelp, they already have your money. Too late!

WOW, that is...the most...wow.

That is NOT how your treat customers. You completely fail to understand that the OP is not an isolated case.

WOW...I am flabbergasted that you would suggest that ESO does not need a players money. Are you by chance the lead art director for ESO, because If I am correct, he said the same thing.

A. Do me a favor and don't mistake me discussing ZOS' business plan in the economic sense with me approving of it. It absolutely sucks for players like the OP who want to get items for cheaper.

Don't like it? Take it up with ZOS. I'm just explaining the economic reasoning behind ZOS' rather coldhearted, profit-driven business plan and why that means they are extremely unlikely to do what the OP wants, barring the accounting department, marketing and shareholders all being visited by the Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present, and Future. I don't like their business plan, but I understand it.


B. "I am flabbergasted that you would suggest that ESO does not need a players money."

That's pretty basic economics, actually. No company needs every single customer's money when they have plenty of other customers who are willing to buy at the set price, which generates the level of profit the company wants. That's supply and demand, specifically demand.

Is it great for every consumer? Nope. Its not great for consumers who don't want to pay the set price.

Are most companies great for every consumer? Nope. Yet they persist and profit because there are sufficient consumers who will pay the set price.

In a purely economic sense, as long as a company is making their desired profit with high enough demand at their set price, they don't need the money of people who want a lower price.

I mean, its a little like me walking into a storefront with set prices and whining that the prices are higher than I want to pay. No one at corporate needs my money badly enough to lower prices. There are plenty of other customers willing to pay their prices, more than enough to make their desired profit without having to lower prices at all. The most I'll accomplish is bullying some poor customer service rep who has to try not to offend me when I don't get what I want. (Some companies that deal in negotiation work differently within reason, but that's not how the Crown Store works, so that's a tangent I shan't explore.)

One thing we can tell is true of ZOS is they have plenty of players who are willing to buy Crowns and Crown Store items at the current prices, enough that ZOS is making their desired profit from those items. I don't know the source for the lead art director's quote to see if that's what they mean in context, but assuming your recollection is correct, they were making a blunt, but ultimately correct assessment. Economically, ESO does not need the money of every player, especially not money that only comes from dramatically slashing prices that already have sufficient demand. Or to point to another common request, selling the Craft Bag and therefore devaluing ESO+.


Now from a purely Customer Service viewpoint where companies should strive to give customers whatever they want at whatever price they want, all the above economic reasoning is the mark of a horrible company. Certainly, one should never do anything so crass as to point out in essence "We set those prices at a level people will buy them. Plenty of people do buy them at the price, enough that we aren't changing it. Pay the price or do without. We don't need your money."
It's crass.
It's blunt.
Its bad customer service to come right out and say it.
It offends players who want to hear that they are valued customers at all times, even when they are asking for discounts it just doesn't make economic sense to give.

Its also economically accurate. That's why its ZOS' business plan (and the business plan of most other companies) whether we like it or don't. I don't like it, but as I said, I understand it.

TelvanniWizard

@VaranisArano sad but true.

Raideen

VaranisArano wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Fortunately for ZOS' accounting department, ESO has many players. Enough of them will buy crowns for those items at the set price to make the accountants very happy.

Its unfortunately for you, but ZOS' accountants do not need your money and so do not need to lower prices. Maybe someday, they will have a limited time sales to see if they can take your money too. If you don't spend your money on crowns to buy sale items, oh well. There are many players who will take advantage of the sales.

Oh, and if you already own those crowns, whelp, they already have your money. Too late!

WOW, that is...the most...wow.

That is NOT how your treat customers. You completely fail to understand that the OP is not an isolated case.

WOW...I am flabbergasted that you would suggest that ESO does not need a players money. Are you by chance the lead art director for ESO, because If I am correct, he said the same thing.

A. Do me a favor and don't mistake me discussing ZOS' business plan in the economic sense with me approving of it. It absolutely sucks for players like the OP who want to get items for cheaper.

Don't like it? Take it up with ZOS. I'm just explaining the economic reasoning behind ZOS' rather coldhearted, profit-driven business plan and why that means they are extremely unlikely to do what the OP wants, barring the accounting department, marketing and shareholders all being visited by the Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present, and Future. I don't like their business plan, but I understand it.


B. "I am flabbergasted that you would suggest that ESO does not need a players money."

That's pretty basic economics, actually. No company needs every single customer's money when they have plenty of other customers who are willing to buy at the set price, which generates the level of profit the company wants. That's supply and demand, specifically demand.

Is it great for every consumer? Nope. Its not great for consumers who don't want to pay the set price.

Are most companies great for every consumer? Nope. Yet they persist and profit because there are sufficient consumers who will pay the set price.

In a purely economic sense, as long as a company is making their desired profit with high enough demand at their set price, they don't need the money of people who want a lower price.

I mean, its a little like me walking into a storefront with set prices and whining that the prices are higher than I want to pay. No one at corporate needs my money badly enough to lower prices. There are plenty of other customers willing to pay their prices, more than enough to make their desired profit without having to lower prices at all. The most I'll accomplish is bullying some poor customer service rep who has to try not to offend me when I don't get what I want. (Some companies that deal in negotiation work differently within reason, but that's not how the Crown Store works, so that's a tangent I shan't explore.)

One thing we can tell is true of ZOS is they have plenty of players who are willing to buy Crowns and Crown Store items at the current prices, enough that ZOS is making their desired profit from those items. I don't know the source for the lead art director's quote to see if that's what they mean in context, but assuming your recollection is correct, they were making a blunt, but ultimately correct assessment. Economically, ESO does not need the money of every player, especially not money that only comes from dramatically slashing prices that already have sufficient demand. Or to point to another common request, selling the Craft Bag and therefore devaluing ESO+.


Now from a purely Customer Service viewpoint where companies should strive to give customers whatever they want at whatever price they want, all the above economic reasoning is the mark of a horrible company. Certainly, one should never do anything so crass as to point out in essence "We set those prices at a level people will buy them. Plenty of people do buy them at the price, enough that we aren't changing it. Pay the price or do without. We don't need your money."
It's crass.
It's blunt.
Its bad customer service to come right out and say it.
It offends players who want to hear that they are valued customers at all times, even when they are asking for discounts it just doesn't make economic sense to give.

Its also economically accurate. That's why its ZOS' business plan (and the business plan of most other companies) whether we like it or don't. I don't like it, but as I said, I understand it.

I am not arguing about their crummy business model and I am aware of what you wrote about (I feel bad that you wrote so much that was ultimately unnecessary).

My point is that you should not express " ZOS accountants do not need your money" to any customer, ever, especially with todays social media. Word gets out that some of your customers are not "good enough", it could have some serious backlash.

Its the exact same thing as when the EA dev said "we don't want you to play our game" about BFV...and look where that got them.

That is my point.

Of course if you want to sabotage ZO$ as a business then ya, promote the idea that ZO$ does not need our money all day.

dagrdagaz_5912

magictucktuck wrote: »

If you already got the crowns, they already got the money. Sorry to break it to you, they don't care

Yeah true, however the sooner i spend those crowns the sooner i am willing / tempted to buy more crowns !
Their los. And yes, missed profit from me doesnt make a difference.
The question is, how much players have the same issue as me.
Add up all the missed profit from them, and i wonder how much in total Zo$ misses.

But as mentioned above. Apparently Zo$ is happy with what they shake out of 'whales'

Ok, my main point was actually much more things in the crown store, for a much longer time.
It seems, unfortunately, my example for lowering the price of something is getting more attention.

VaranisArano

Raideen wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Fortunately for ZOS' accounting department, ESO has many players. Enough of them will buy crowns for those items at the set price to make the accountants very happy.

Its unfortunately for you, but ZOS' accountants do not need your money and so do not need to lower prices. Maybe someday, they will have a limited time sales to see if they can take your money too. If you don't spend your money on crowns to buy sale items, oh well. There are many players who will take advantage of the sales.

Oh, and if you already own those crowns, whelp, they already have your money. Too late!

WOW, that is...the most...wow.

That is NOT how your treat customers. You completely fail to understand that the OP is not an isolated case.

WOW...I am flabbergasted that you would suggest that ESO does not need a players money. Are you by chance the lead art director for ESO, because If I am correct, he said the same thing.

A. Do me a favor and don't mistake me discussing ZOS' business plan in the economic sense with me approving of it. It absolutely sucks for players like the OP who want to get items for cheaper.

Don't like it? Take it up with ZOS. I'm just explaining the economic reasoning behind ZOS' rather coldhearted, profit-driven business plan and why that means they are extremely unlikely to do what the OP wants, barring the accounting department, marketing and shareholders all being visited by the Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present, and Future. I don't like their business plan, but I understand it.


B. "I am flabbergasted that you would suggest that ESO does not need a players money."

That's pretty basic economics, actually. No company needs every single customer's money when they have plenty of other customers who are willing to buy at the set price, which generates the level of profit the company wants. That's supply and demand, specifically demand.

Is it great for every consumer? Nope. Its not great for consumers who don't want to pay the set price.

Are most companies great for every consumer? Nope. Yet they persist and profit because there are sufficient consumers who will pay the set price.

In a purely economic sense, as long as a company is making their desired profit with high enough demand at their set price, they don't need the money of people who want a lower price.

I mean, its a little like me walking into a storefront with set prices and whining that the prices are higher than I want to pay. No one at corporate needs my money badly enough to lower prices. There are plenty of other customers willing to pay their prices, more than enough to make their desired profit without having to lower prices at all. The most I'll accomplish is bullying some poor customer service rep who has to try not to offend me when I don't get what I want. (Some companies that deal in negotiation work differently within reason, but that's not how the Crown Store works, so that's a tangent I shan't explore.)

in thing we can tell is true of ZOS is they have plenty of players who are willing to buy Crowns and Crown Store items at the current prices, enough that ZOS is making their desired profit from those items. I don't know the source for the lead art director's quote to see if that's what they mean in context, but assuming your recollection is correct, they were making a blunt, but ultimately correct assessment. Economically, ESO does not need the money of every player, especially not money that only comes from dramatically slashing prices that already have sufficient demand. Or to point to another common request, selling the Craft Bag and therefore devaluing ESO+.


Now from a purely Customer Service viewpoint where companies should strive to give customers whatever they want at whatever price they want, all the above economic reasoning is the mark of a horrible company. Certainly, one should never do anything so crass as to point out in essence "We set those prices at a level people will buy them. Plenty of people do buy them at the price, enough that we aren't changing it. Pay the price or do without. We don't need your money."
It's crass.
It's blunt.
Its bad customer service to come right out and say it.
It offends players who want to hear that they are valued customers at all times, even when they are asking for discounts it just doesn't make economic sense to give.

Its also economically accurate. That's why its ZOS' business plan (and the business plan of most other companies) whether we like it or don't. I don't like it, but as I said, I understand it.

I am not arguing about their crummy business model and I am aware of what you wrote about (I feel bad that you wrote so much that was ultimately unnecessary).

My point is that you should not express " ZOS accountants do not need your money" to any customer, ever, especially with todays social media. Word gets out that some of your customers are not "good enough", it could have some serious backlash.

Its the exact same thing as when the EA dev said "we don't want you to play our game" about BFV...and look where that got them.

That is my point.

Of course if you want to sabotage ZO$ as a business then ya, promote the idea that ZO$ does not need our money all day.

Okay, yeah, I understand you now.

You are right. Its bad customer service to come out and say it, even though it's true. Which would matter if I worked for ZOS - I suspect its rather obvious at this point why I don't . Again, I don't have the source to comment on what the lead art director said.

I say what I've said not to sabotage anyone, but because it's economically accurate. The OP's request has no chance because it doesnt make economic sense for ZOS.
Customer Service is about putting a nice, friendly gloss over the economic reality that companies don't need any one customer's money as long as there are plenty of other customers willing to pay.

When I talk economics, I'm not one to offer much false hope when there is none. ZOS is the type of company where requests for changes to the Crown Store have to make economic sense if they have a hope and prayer of happening, which makes the accountants happy because economic reality and profit is their job. It's a fantastic business plan for ZOS. Its just not good for players like the OP who want more items at lower prices, and I don't see the point of sugarcoating that. I enjoy discussing economic reality, and I'm sure not getting paid to provide customer service.

dagrdagaz_5912

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its just not good for players like the OP who want more items at lower prices, and I don't see the point of sugarcoating that. I enjoy discussing economic reality, and I'm sure not getting paid to provide customer service.

Yes and no.
Please STOP focusing on my requested/mentioned cheaper item(s).
Yes, there r items i would like to see cheaper.
But focusing on that may sideline my main point for this topic.
Wich is many more products in the CS, and products much longer in the CS.


Also focusing on 'whales' and what i like to see dont need be mutual exclusive.
Say, keep (nearly) all 1300-2000 crowns mounts in the CS permanently.
And have the 2500+ crowns mounts limited time offer.
Or, keep (nearly) all 700 crowns or less pets in the CS permanently,
And have the 1000 Crowns pets limited time offer.

Now, direct CS products may be removed to after a while be added to new Crown Crates.
These previous Crown Crates i would like to see also more often and longer in the CS.
Last year there were a few weeks where most previous Crown Crates returned for a week to the CS.
Well, maybe not many players still need/want something from previous Crown Crates.
But new players might.
And the simple fact, if its not available it can not be purchased at all

Now Zo$ may see nice sales for these limited time offers, but that may just as well be simply becos the item is new and available in the CS.

VaranisArano

dagrdagaz_5912 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its just not good for players like the OP who want more items at lower prices, and I don't see the point of sugarcoating that. I enjoy discussing economic reality, and I'm sure not getting paid to provide customer service.

Yes and no.
Please STOP focusing on my requested/mentioned cheaper item(s).
Yes, there r items i would like to see cheaper.
But focusing on that may sideline my main point for this topic.
Wich is many more products in the CS, and products much longer in the CS.


Also focusing on 'whales' and what i like to see dont need be mutual exclusive.
Say, keep (nearly) all 1300-2000 crowns mounts in the CS permanently.
And have the 2500+ crowns mounts limited time offer.
Or, keep (nearly) all 700 crowns or less pets in the CS permanently,
And have the 1000 Crowns pets limited time offer.

Now, direct CS products may be removed to after a while be added to new Crown Crates.
These previous Crown Crates i would like to see also more often and longer in the CS.
Last year there were a few weeks where most previous Crown Crates returned for a week to the CS.
Well, maybe not many players still need/want something from previous Crown Crates.
But new players might.
And the simple fact, if its not available it can not be purchased at all

Now Zo$ may see nice sales for these limited time offers, but that may just as well be simply becos the item is new and available in the CS.

If that was your main point, sorry, it wasnt entirely clear from the first post. Thanks for clarifying.

In any case, you kinda hit the nail on the head with "Now Zo$ may see nice sales for these limited time offers, but that may just as well be simply becos the item is new and available in the CS."

Again, the whole limited inventory, limited availability, limited time offer thing isn't great for customers. It's artificial scarcity and it makes a fair bit of economic sense for ZOS. Removing items and bringing them back for limited time sales or in crown crates is another thing that sucks for customers, but lets ZOS milk those items for more purchases.

Here's the Customer Service answer (yes, its as bad as you expect): https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/28916/~/why-are-you-removing-crown-store-items?

For context, here's a thread from 2016 talking about more or less the same thing you are with limited time items and limited CS inventory: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/283245/why-remove-items-from-the-crownstore

And another from 2015: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/193799/removed-items-from-crown-store

Truth be told, I'm looking back at the earliest threads after the Crown Store was introduced and seeing pretty much the same complaints...and the same answers. ZOS uses this business model because artificial scarcity and limited time offers are good for generating purchases.

Its an old complaint, though not unjustified.
ZOS just doesn't seem to care about changing their practices to address that complaint.

Sorry, its probably not very encouraging of me to point of that limited time offers/limited CS inventory has been a source of player complaints for years and yet ZOS seems pretty resolute in sticking with their business plan anyways. Economically, its working out well for ZOS.

Araneae6537

I have been wondering why @ZOS seems to have one primary target and strategy in the Crown store, namely, the Crown Crate system. That and the Gem-exclusives behind it might make them the most money, but couldn’t they have additional targets and strategies without detracting from these sales?

I get why limited time releases and sales are effective. In GW2, where ALL the cosmetic items and many QoL items were on rotation, I have bought items I haven’t used yet, including skins for mounts I hadn’t yet acquired, because I liked them enough to buy them while I could. I expected that was standard and when I started playing ESO, bought some extra Crowns to purchase current costumes and a pet that I liked before they left... except they’re still there three months later.

There are sooo many costumes (or potential costumes NPCs wear) in ESO and I am baffled as to why these don’t rotate regularly. And then there are hairstyles, pets, mounts, etc., all the same as when I started. What is to tempt me now? No different hairstyles and only one different costume a month. There was one I liked and bought but the others (such as this month’s) aren’t at all to my taste.

Why are there items that haven’t been available for years — years!? How does that increase sales??? Surely a few days once a year would be as limited as you’d want to make something to drive up sales, no?

Keep the Apex mounts and all the flashy glowy new stuff Crown Crate / Gem exclusive if that works but couldn’t some of the more mundane stuff that your average NPC wears (such as the lovely Elsweyr wraps) rotate through for Crowns? And how about some of those furnishings already in-game that players have been requesting for years? I would think that ZOS could keep their successful Crown crates going and bring in even more money by offering more options and enticements for those of us who prefer a different style — more money and it would give us excitement to see what will be available next and also make us feel like valued customers whose requests are listened to! I’m sure there are variables that I am unaware of, but to me it seems like a win-win, and not so absurd as it seems to work for other companies whose games sell RNG crates but also feature premium direct-buy cosmetics.

idk

Raideen wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Fortunately for ZOS' accounting department, ESO has many players. Enough of them will buy crowns for those items at the set price to make the accountants very happy.

Its unfortunately for you, but ZOS' accountants do not need your money and so do not need to lower prices. Maybe someday, they will have a limited time sales to see if they can take your money too. If you don't spend your money on crowns to buy sale items, oh well. There are many players who will take advantage of the sales.

Oh, and if you already own those crowns, whelp, they already have your money. Too late!

WOW, that is...the most...wow.

That is NOT how your treat customers. You completely fail to understand that the OP is not an isolated case.

WOW...I am flabbergasted that you would suggest that ESO does not need a players money. Are you by chance the lead art director for ESO, because If I am correct, he said the same thing.

I do not think OP can be pleased, They are upset when they cannot find something they want and when they do they complain about the price.

Raideen

VaranisArano wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Fortunately for ZOS' accounting department, ESO has many players. Enough of them will buy crowns for those items at the set price to make the accountants very happy.

Its unfortunately for you, but ZOS' accountants do not need your money and so do not need to lower prices. Maybe someday, they will have a limited time sales to see if they can take your money too. If you don't spend your money on crowns to buy sale items, oh well. There are many players who will take advantage of the sales.

Oh, and if you already own those crowns, whelp, they already have your money. Too late!

WOW, that is...the most...wow.

That is NOT how your treat customers. You completely fail to understand that the OP is not an isolated case.

WOW...I am flabbergasted that you would suggest that ESO does not need a players money. Are you by chance the lead art director for ESO, because If I am correct, he said the same thing.

A. Do me a favor and don't mistake me discussing ZOS' business plan in the economic sense with me approving of it. It absolutely sucks for players like the OP who want to get items for cheaper.

Don't like it? Take it up with ZOS. I'm just explaining the economic reasoning behind ZOS' rather coldhearted, profit-driven business plan and why that means they are extremely unlikely to do what the OP wants, barring the accounting department, marketing and shareholders all being visited by the Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present, and Future. I don't like their business plan, but I understand it.


B. "I am flabbergasted that you would suggest that ESO does not need a players money."

That's pretty basic economics, actually. No company needs every single customer's money when they have plenty of other customers who are willing to buy at the set price, which generates the level of profit the company wants. That's supply and demand, specifically demand.

Is it great for every consumer? Nope. Its not great for consumers who don't want to pay the set price.

Are most companies great for every consumer? Nope. Yet they persist and profit because there are sufficient consumers who will pay the set price.

In a purely economic sense, as long as a company is making their desired profit with high enough demand at their set price, they don't need the money of people who want a lower price.

I mean, its a little like me walking into a storefront with set prices and whining that the prices are higher than I want to pay. No one at corporate needs my money badly enough to lower prices. There are plenty of other customers willing to pay their prices, more than enough to make their desired profit without having to lower prices at all. The most I'll accomplish is bullying some poor customer service rep who has to try not to offend me when I don't get what I want. (Some companies that deal in negotiation work differently within reason, but that's not how the Crown Store works, so that's a tangent I shan't explore.)

in thing we can tell is true of ZOS is they have plenty of players who are willing to buy Crowns and Crown Store items at the current prices, enough that ZOS is making their desired profit from those items. I don't know the source for the lead art director's quote to see if that's what they mean in context, but assuming your recollection is correct, they were making a blunt, but ultimately correct assessment. Economically, ESO does not need the money of every player, especially not money that only comes from dramatically slashing prices that already have sufficient demand. Or to point to another common request, selling the Craft Bag and therefore devaluing ESO+.


Now from a purely Customer Service viewpoint where companies should strive to give customers whatever they want at whatever price they want, all the above economic reasoning is the mark of a horrible company. Certainly, one should never do anything so crass as to point out in essence "We set those prices at a level people will buy them. Plenty of people do buy them at the price, enough that we aren't changing it. Pay the price or do without. We don't need your money."
It's crass.
It's blunt.
Its bad customer service to come right out and say it.
It offends players who want to hear that they are valued customers at all times, even when they are asking for discounts it just doesn't make economic sense to give.

Its also economically accurate. That's why its ZOS' business plan (and the business plan of most other companies) whether we like it or don't. I don't like it, but as I said, I understand it.

I am not arguing about their crummy business model and I am aware of what you wrote about (I feel bad that you wrote so much that was ultimately unnecessary).

My point is that you should not express " ZOS accountants do not need your money" to any customer, ever, especially with todays social media. Word gets out that some of your customers are not "good enough", it could have some serious backlash.

Its the exact same thing as when the EA dev said "we don't want you to play our game" about BFV...and look where that got them.

That is my point.

Of course if you want to sabotage ZO$ as a business then ya, promote the idea that ZO$ does not need our money all day.

Okay, yeah, I understand you now.

You are right. Its bad customer service to come out and say it, even though it's true. Which would matter if I worked for ZOS - I suspect its rather obvious at this point why I don't . Again, I don't have the source to comment on what the lead art director said.

I say what I've said not to sabotage anyone, but because it's economically accurate. The OP's request has no chance because it doesnt make economic sense for ZOS.
Customer Service is about putting a nice, friendly gloss over the economic reality that companies don't need any one customer's money as long as there are plenty of other customers willing to pay.

When I talk economics, I'm not one to offer much false hope when there is none. ZOS is the type of company where requests for changes to the Crown Store have to make economic sense if they have a hope and prayer of happening, which makes the accountants happy because economic reality and profit is their job. It's a fantastic business plan for ZOS. Its just not good for players like the OP who want more items at lower prices, and I don't see the point of sugarcoating that. I enjoy discussing economic reality, and I'm sure not getting paid to provide customer service.

I get your position, I think fundamentally I am selfish. I want to see the game succeed if only so that the items I have purchased can get worn out to the point I no longer care about the money spent. If that makes sense.

I spent a lot of time in sales when I was younger and the fastest way to lose a customer is to keep digging into their wallet. Many people will actually let you pile on that cheese, but they wont like it and they wont say anything about it...to you at least (not you, but using you as in them...you get the idea). But when they get home and feel that buyers remorse, they will tell their friends and they wont be back as a customer, at least not any time soon. Word of mouth spreads fast.

Later on I went to school for design and learned a lot about various design principals from industrial, interior, UX, etc. What I am about to say is not being hubristic (RL friends would tell you I am pretty humble). It takes a certain mindset to study a design and break it down to its elements, I do that daily in my work. So when I look at the game, I look at it from a developer perspective and a player perspective or rather a customer perspective. One of the primary issues with the gaming industry as a whole is that the players are not treated as customers even though by most metrics they are customers. This is why we see all forms of predatory practices being done, because frankly most kids don't know its happening to them, or heck even many adults.

So back to the game. I love ESO, I mean I loved morrowind and the Elder Scrolls as an IP. My favorite game growing up (I am dating myself) was Wasteland and Legacy of the Ancients, although I did really like Yars Revenge on the Atari 2600. Due to Bethesda publishing Fallout, which was the spiritual successor to Wasteland, combined with my love for Morrowind (I am a music fan and Jeremy Soules score won me over to the core), you can see how I had a fondness for Bethesda.

But they too have jumped on the predatory practices and the repercussion will be a loss in their player base, a loss in their fan base. I did not buy Fallout 76 and based on what I am seeing now in this game, if things are not changed. I will no longer buy any of their games.

That is why I speak my mind on these forums, for my selfish reasons of passion for the studio and for the game. If they fail, they will lose more than just money.

dagrdagaz_5912

One other thing i was wondering about these limited time offers.

Say its for sale for a few weeks a year. It makes a certain amount of profit.
Now look at the whole year, how much profit did it make on a yearly basis.
More or less if it was available the whole year ?!

If the product/item does not return, how much profit did it make for a period of multiple years ?!
Now if the product/item is for sale for multiple years, what would its profit for a period of multiple years then be ?!

Raideen

dagrdagaz_5912 wrote: »

One other thing i was wondering about these limited time offers.

Say its for sale for a few weeks a year. It makes a certain amount of profit.
Now look at the whole year, how much profit did it make on a yearly basis.
More or less if it was available the whole year ?!

If the product/item does not return, how much profit did it make for a period of multiple years ?!
Now if the product/item is for sale for multiple years, what would its profit for a period of multiple years then be ?!

Well based on the prices of the homes there is no reason NOT to assume that if these were offered year round that they would not make more money, but that is assuming there is a large swath of people who might purchase the item.

I wonder, or ponder if in fact the player base is much smaller than what is led on. If so, that would easily explain why they want to push sales with limited items. They should generate more money with a smaller player base on limited items vs a larger player base with the offerings throughout the year.

The other argument is that ZO$ has no interest in making money and they only sell these things at these prices for limited durations so that a select few of people can claim bragging rights.

VaranisArano

dagrdagaz_5912 wrote: »

One other thing i was wondering about these limited time offers.

Say its for sale for a few weeks a year. It makes a certain amount of profit.
Now look at the whole year, how much profit did it make on a yearly basis.
More or less if it was available the whole year ?!

If the product/item does not return, how much profit did it make for a period of multiple years ?!
Now if the product/item is for sale for multiple years, what would its profit for a period of multiple years then be ?!

You are technically correct. Without ZOS' sales data, we can still guess that ZOS would theoretically make more sales from leaving expensive houses in the CS.

However, that's not ZOS does, and here's some of the economic theory that explains why.

When big-ticket items sit around all year, people wait to buy them. In particular, they wait for a Crown Sale and then buy the item for effectively half off. Instead, "Limited Time Only" in marketing speak is "spend your money now!" Its a marketing technique creating artificial scarcity in order to drive up immediate demand. In ZOS' case, big-ticket houses serve as a "spend your saved crowns, or buy more crowns if you want this item" designed to pull stored crowns out of the economy at particular times. If ZOS leaves them in the store constantly, they can't use them as tools of manipulate the crown economy nor do the sales benefit from the appearance of artificial scarcity as more players are likely to wait to purchase. Smaller items like cosmetics and costumes tend to reappear in limited sales (artificial demand) or in Crown Crates, where they artificially inflate the value without adding new offerings and attracting buyers who missed it the first time.

In many cases, its also a mistake to assume that the company wants the maximum amount of profit possible on a single item. Instead, there's the concept of "diminishing returns". ZOS doesnt need to hit a maximum profit per year per item, so long as they hit their targeted profit per year. Combined with artificial scarcity, that's a big part in why ZOS rotates items through their Crown Store. Digital Items don't have a self life, but by adding and removing items, ZOS is able to create two sales peaks when they arrive and right before they leave, repeated every time they come back to the store (which also inflates the future years' profit per year per item when it returns). Potentially, ZOS spreads the sales out to,Crown Crates, with repeated costumes. Again, ZOS doesnt actually need to extract a "higher' profit per year per item, as long as they hit their target.

From an economic viewpoint, releasing expensive houses for short periods and returning them infrequently serves ZOS quite well.
It lets them generate artificial scarcity. "ZOS where is Grand Topal Island, I want it!"
It lets them generate artificial demand when the item leaves the CS and each time it returns. "I have to buy it now or it will be gone!"
It lets them put smaller items like cosmetics and costumes into Crown Crates to artificily inflate their value with low effort.
It lets them pull some measure of saved crowns out of the economy while tempting others to buy more, on ZOS' timetable...such as a month or two before the forums expect there to be a holiday sale on Crowns?


So there are a number of economic benefits to ZOS that explain why ZOS doesn't chase after the theoretically maximum number of sales or give players their full freedom to decide when and how they want to buy from a full range of continually available expensive houses. Even though, theoretically, it seems like they are idiots for leaving profit on the table.

VaranisArano

Raideen wrote: »

dagrdagaz_5912 wrote: »

One other thing i was wondering about these limited time offers.

Say its for sale for a few weeks a year. It makes a certain amount of profit.
Now look at the whole year, how much profit did it make on a yearly basis.
More or less if it was available the whole year ?!

If the product/item does not return, how much profit did it make for a period of multiple years ?!
Now if the product/item is for sale for multiple years, what would its profit for a period of multiple years then be ?!

Well based on the prices of the homes there is no reason NOT to assume that if these were offered year round that they would not make more money, but that is assuming there is a large swath of people who might purchase the item.

I wonder, or ponder if in fact the player base is much smaller than what is led on. If so, that would easily explain why they want to push sales with limited items. They should generate more money with a smaller player base on limited items vs a larger player base with the offerings throughout the year.

The other argument is that ZO$ has no interest in making money and they only sell these things at these prices for limited durations so that a select few of people can claim bragging rights.

I suspect the answer to the dilemma is that there is in fact a very small playerbase...of players willing to spend $100-140 on any one item in a video game, much less on a fancy house that is purely decorative.

I'm, uh, not included in that playerbase, that's sure!.

Its entirely possible that ZOS might get more sales out of that group by leaving Wraithome, Grand Topal Island, etc. on sale all year. I don't have ZOS' sales data.

Personally, I suspect that ZOS manages to get sufficient sales out of that group with the limited sales in order to hit ZOS' target. We hear a lot of complaints from players for whom spending $100-140 on a single item in game is a luxury and something they have to save up in order to get an items they really, really want. We don't have the data to tell us how many players end up buying it in total, or how many players buy it without complaint or on impulse. Presumably its enough that ZOS continues with this sales method.

dagrdagaz_5912

In many cases, its also a mistake to assume that the company wants the maximum amount of profit possible on a single item. Instead, there's the concept of "diminishing returns". ZOS doesnt need to hit a maximum profit per year per item, so long as they hit their targeted profit per year

I was starting to think in this direction.
That Zo$ just aims for the highest-profit-period, wich is the first few weeks (few months) after a new item release.

And i guess they think(know?) with a small(er) variety of stuff in the CS, players are more inclined to buy the new stuff.
Hmm, not me, but i suppose enough others do then.

Goregrinder

Should I not have just bought 21,000 crowns?

Araneae6537

Goregrinder wrote: »

Should I not have just bought 21,000 crowns?

Only you can answer that.

Goregrinder

ErinM31 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Should I not have just bought 21,000 crowns?

Only you can answer that.

I think the answer is yes, because I just bought some more for the Exorcised House.