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Does ZOS even care?
Marigold1
✭✭✭
Hello everybody,
I am just a causal player. From my humble perspective the rules in this game are changing so fast that time to adapt for causal player are low. I play this game to have some fun, but I had to say ZOS manages to take it from me which could be OK for title in category F2P… sadly this game is B2P so for my money it would be really great to at least have decent fun in all areas which this game is offering.
Right now, I feel little bit disappointed a it seams ZOS is not caring about the OLD contend in this game instead they are pushing new contend and not caring about existing problems.
Here are some examples:
- combat rules are ever changing especially regarding to skills
- unstable servers (performance wise)
- BUGS which has not been fixed for very long time
- ZOS representatives are not responding on the forums.
- ZOS is ignoring feedback from PTS (at least that is my feeling I get from forum)
I am fond of new content to have fun with but right now I would more appreciate to focus more on stability both of the SW and HW and improve communication with comunity.
I am just a causal player. From my humble perspective the rules in this game are changing so fast that time to adapt for causal player are low. I play this game to have some fun, but I had to say ZOS manages to take it from me which could be OK for title in category F2P… sadly this game is B2P so for my money it would be really great to at least have decent fun in all areas which this game is offering.
Right now, I feel little bit disappointed a it seams ZOS is not caring about the OLD contend in this game instead they are pushing new contend and not caring about existing problems.
Here are some examples:
- combat rules are ever changing especially regarding to skills
- unstable servers (performance wise)
- BUGS which has not been fixed for very long time
- ZOS representatives are not responding on the forums.
- ZOS is ignoring feedback from PTS (at least that is my feeling I get from forum)
I am fond of new content to have fun with but right now I would more appreciate to focus more on stability both of the SW and HW and improve communication with comunity.
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Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Magic 8 Ball says: "My Sources Say No."Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.21 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/487396/official-discussion-thread-for-esos-performance-improvements-plan/p1
Read that and be patient.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!5 -
chrightt✭✭✭✭People think that the inability to produce positive results means that ZOS doesn’t care. Of course they care. They literally live off of making games and making more people to play and pay for their products. You think they don’t care when their livelihood depends on it? Caring doesn’t equate to producing good results nor does producing bad results equate to not caring. Sometimes people are just not very competent.
Have you ever tried to study for a test on a subject you liked? I wouldn’t say you didn’t care about the subject just because you didn’t score the highest in your class or even above average. Better yet, have you failed at a project at work or did a poor job on something? Do you care? You probably should if you want your salary right? Well if you don’t then I’m guessing you’ve answered your own question at why your pay is so low compared to everyone else
if you’ve ever asked yourself that question. Edited by chrightt on October 22, 2019 10:23PM6 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭People think that the inability to produce positive results means that ZOS doesn’t care. Of course they care. They literally live off of making games and making more people to play and pay for their products. You think they don’t care when their livelihood depends on it? Caring doesn’t equate to producing good results nor does producing bad results equate to not caring. Sometimes people are just not very competent.
Have you ever tried to study for a test on a subject you liked? I wouldn’t say you didn’t care about the subject just because you didn’t score the highest in your class or even above average. Better yet, have you failed at a project at work or did a poor job on something? Do you care? You probably should if you want your salary right? Well if you don’t then I’m guessing you’ve answered your own question at why your pay is so low compared to everyone else if you’ve ever asked yourself that question.
Its just a job to ZOS, something they do to earn money.
Priority 1, make money.
Other priorities.
Priority 234345, make the game better for the good of the game even though it may not generate revenue.
They 'care' about the wrong thing, but flip side, if there was no money then there would be no game!! Ouch my head!Edited by Stebarnz on October 22, 2019 10:35PM13 -
Marigold1✭✭✭Well I am not sure what they are doing right now. Event when they claim that with update 25, we should see improvement in regards of performance.
My current feeling is that they try to monetize the franchise, but real optimization is still missing from this game. The issue with this is from very start of this game.
If they feel I am too critical, and they don’t deserve it… Than I can only tell they deserve it as their level of communication is very bad. It is more like hide and seek game.
It would be great if they publish what they are doing in regards of the problems and not just give us the constant silence. Right now, we do see just vague plan of what some updates will do. That could be fine in regard to technical point of view.
What about real gameplay? Do they have at least idea how the game should be played in the future? From all the changes in the skills I don’t see the clear vision what they want to achieve. The last 2 patches more resembling “try and learn attempts” at least from my point of view.
For anyone who might to tell me the famous L2P… I don’t care about stellar score… I just want to have some fun on established rules not log in after few weeks just to find out that everything is different again… except for performance.
Edited by Marigold1 on October 22, 2019 10:50PM6 -
russelmmendoza✭✭✭✭✭
✭First and foremost.
Their a company to make money.
They made the game to make money.
They change the game a lot to make more money.
They do care to make more money.
You silly fool.2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just an example. On PTS I found bug, which makes certain non-meta ability from my build somewhat OP (in PVP). I reported it in official bug thread because I don't want to have unfair advantage. Guess what? I just logged on on live... bug is not fixed
This is how ZOS checks bug threads 4 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »
Lol we've been reading that and being patient for 5.5 years honestly.
Oh I'm sorry, must have missed the part where that thread was posted at launch in '14.
The timeline is just a couple more months. If youve been around for 5 years, you can deal with it that much longer. Or i mean, leave?CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!1 -
ZOS_GregoryVmodGreetings all,
After removing a handful of posts for bashing, we would like to remind everyone that all posts are to be kept civil and constructive, as well as within the guidelines of the rules that we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.
Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site1 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You’d have to define ‘care’ and suggest what they ‘care’ about.
ie Are ZOS really that bothered about what forum users think? Not fantastically. Someone at ZOS who isn’t a forum mod, might read some posts, but the vast majority justnever make it to real ZOS eyeballs.
Do they care that, once again, the EU server is broken? I doubt it. I wouldn’t imagine any of them are going to be losing sleep over it. They’ve instigated the ‘turn it off and turn it on again’ protocol , turned over and gone back to sleep. That’s the extent of the caring.1 -
deleted008293✭✭✭✭I ll be short, combat changes, even drastically ones are often required to change the balance in one direction or another and not let certain classes or skills to become too OP.
In PvE often I noticed end game raid teams to only promote a certain class to be able to join their teams.
In PvP often some classes get too OP and countering that balance has a good side effect.
If also increase performance by changing some skills so drastically it is even better. For example the Orb Synergy changes. It indeed increased performance by a good margin. Why? Because instead of having 1000 orbs on the screen, you only have one!0 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭nordmarian wrote: »I ll be short, combat changes, even drastically ones are often required to change the balance in one direction or another and not let certain classes or skills to become too OP.
In PvE often I noticed end game raid teams to only promote a certain class to be able to join their teams.
In PvP often some classes get too OP and countering that balance has a good side effect.
If also increase performance by changing some skills so drastically it is even better. For example the Orb Synergy changes. It indeed increased performance by a good margin. Why? Because instead of having 1000 orbs on the screen, you only have one!
They clearly "balanced" the DoT scaling from U23, in which they ignored every PTR voice telling them otherwise, just to do a 180° for the most part in reverting those chance + slapping increased resource costs on top - and now they ignored the U24 PTR feedback just to do a 180° most likely yet again with U25.
That's the opposite of balancing and caring.Edited by daedalusAI on October 23, 2019 4:45AM4 -
SoLooney✭✭✭✭✭People think that the inability to produce positive results means that ZOS doesn’t care. Of course they care. They literally live off of making games and making more people to play and pay for their products. You think they don’t care when their livelihood depends on it? Caring doesn’t equate to producing good results nor does producing bad results equate to not caring. Sometimes people are just not very competent.
Have you ever tried to study for a test on a subject you liked? I wouldn’t say you didn’t care about the subject just because you didn’t score the highest in your class or even above average. Better yet, have you failed at a project at work or did a poor job on something? Do you care? You probably should if you want your salary right? Well if you don’t then I’m guessing you’ve answered your own question at why your pay is so low compared to everyone else if you’ve ever asked yourself that question.
You do have a point but when frames and stability have been bad for years now and they now this year address to fix these issues, shows they're lazy or dont care or just plain incompotent
And they do care about their profits, why do you think they push for crown store items? As long as their big money maker is working properly, who cares about everything else, people still buy crowns even though they have major complaints about the game
When you constantly see yo yo of nerfs and buffs, just shows they have no idea how to properly tweak or balance their combat system. You tweak skills and sets and if it needs more tweaking, u take care of it in another patch, not nerfing and buffing things by over 60 perc, no one likes those extreme changes
Maybe if they listened to what the community votes for and wants, they would have a more successful game. You should make the game for your customers, not just mindless doing a bunch of nonsense0 -
Austinseph1✭✭✭✭✭It would be nice if more devs commented on forum questions instead of just moderation when it isn't answered and things get out of hand. They are pretty tight lipped about any sort of information apart from dev comments in patch notes once every 3 months. I have seen many legitimate posts that just never get any attention and disappear into the abyss. I'm sure they do care about their job, but how are we supposed to know when the only time we see or hear from them is when controversial changes are being implemented. Hold a short live stream once a week for like 30 mins just answering questions from the community or have questions collected once a month and post the answers so there is more back and forth between us and them. That's what I would like to see, and it could easily help the community understand and have a better outlook on things as we go through changes.2 -
kinguardian✭✭✭✭Of course they care and they are working on it. I have been blessed mostly I only had for a period that load screens were really really long. But that is solved and old and new content works fine. If I come accros a problem I send in a ticket and 99% of the time they help me. Only once it took a long time and many tickets. They are helpful just try it via a ticket.1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »
Lol we've been reading that and being patient for 5.5 years honestly.
Oh I'm sorry, must have missed the part where that thread was posted at launch in '14.
The timeline is just a couple more months. If youve been around for 5 years, you can deal with it that much longer. Or i mean, leave?
Performance has been a consistent issue since beta. We have been promised performance improvements were on the horizon since beta. You know this. Don't be obtuse.6 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »Greetings all,
After removing a handful of posts for bashing, we would like to remind everyone that all posts are to be kept civil and constructive, as well as within the guidelines of the rules that we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.
Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-
You can see the amount that they "care" by the appearance of their cleaner service like this employee in threads which gain momentum or touch on critical subjective: all they care for is creating a touted "enjoyable" environment by purging every post/thread they deem unacceptable for whatever reason without even bothering to engage with their customers.
That alone should tell you everything about ZOS.
IMO this "cleaner service" doesn't do enough to keep the forums a civil place. Just the worst behaviors that they have time to find. More sad proof that the community can't be trusted to be civilized much less offer really useful feedback to the devs.
If you were a dev, would you want to wade through all the forum garbage looking for a pearl that might not exist at all?
If I were a dev/someone in charge I'd first properly QA this piece of beta software(hotfix just 1 day after the release of an update due to login issues they claimed have been fixed when it happened before etc.)
After that I'd make sure that this piece of beta software has a proper scope to not be forced to use a sledgehammer every patch because everyone was playing headless chicken.
Additionally I'd actually listen to feedback from my customers during a PTS cycle and talk with them, which is the complete opposite of what ZOS is doing with the silent graveyard treatment and maybe fixing the bugs from the previous PTS cycle with the next major update.
Sure, you have to sort through a lot of posts/threads to get to good/valuable feedback, but it's really bleeping obvious that ZOS doesn't care one bit about the feedback of their customers, or their customers in general as long as the money is flowing in through crown shop sales etc.
In essence I'd uphold integrity of delivering a quality product and talking with my customers - the complete opposite of what ZOS is doing.
Just one question: which customer feels more valued?
The one who's listened to and even though he doesn't like the changes there's explanations on why they've been happening and in general a continuous conversation between company and customer - or the customer who might as well talk to a painted wall, as the company couldn't care less about conversation or feedback and does heavy-handed tweaks every patch with a server/game-stability that is just laughable at this point, several years after the initial release.5 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »Sure, you have to sort through a lot of posts/threads to get to good/valuable feedback, but it's really bleeping obvious that ZOS doesn't care one bit about the feedback of their customers, or their customers in general as long as the money is flowing in through crown shop sales etc.
In essence I'd uphold integrity of delivering a quality product and talking with my customers - the complete opposite of what ZOS is doing.
Just one question: which customer feels more valued?
ZOS isn't an inanimate object. It's made up of people -- and just like everyone on the forums, they deserve to be treated humanely and with respect.
We're at a point where it's a which-came-first chicken-egg argument about who disrespected who first. The only way out is to stop looking at that and just make sure your own behaviour is not reprehensible, no matter what the other person is doing.
You have to give respect to deserve respect. You certainly have a better chance of getting respect when you aren't disrespectful.
ZOS is made up of people, and if you look at the forums, you know people sure ain't saints.Edited by Dusk_Coven on October 23, 2019 5:47AM1 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭People think that the inability to produce positive results means that ZOS doesn’t care. Of course they care. They literally live off of making games and making more people to play and pay for their products. You think they don’t care when their livelihood depends on it? Caring doesn’t equate to producing good results nor does producing bad results equate to not caring. Sometimes people are just not very competent.
Have you ever tried to study for a test on a subject you liked? I wouldn’t say you didn’t care about the subject just because you didn’t score the highest in your class or even above average. Better yet, have you failed at a project at work or did a poor job on something? Do you care? You probably should if you want your salary right? Well if you don’t then I’m guessing you’ve answered your own question at why your pay is so low compared to everyone else if you’ve ever asked yourself that question.
They live off making games well won’t be making much of a living at the rate eso is hemorrhaging players every update. ZoS can slow this by actually answering some questions.
Stam dk has been asking for a stam whip morph why do you refuse to give them this?
Why buff dots one patch just to nerf them and increase their costs the following patch?
Why give stam sorc a knock off version of grim focus?
Why do you ask for feedback and when a large number of players give feedback it appears to be completely ignored?
When exactly will the vision for the direction of combat become clear?
@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Seriously this cloak and dagger communication is ridiculous4 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People think that the inability to produce positive results means that ZOS doesn’t care. Of course they care. They literally live off of making games and making more people to play and pay for their products. You think they don’t care when their livelihood depends on it? Caring doesn’t equate to producing good results nor does producing bad results equate to not caring. Sometimes people are just not very competent.
Have you ever tried to study for a test on a subject you liked? I wouldn’t say you didn’t care about the subject just because you didn’t score the highest in your class or even above average. Better yet, have you failed at a project at work or did a poor job on something? Do you care? You probably should if you want your salary right? Well if you don’t then I’m guessing you’ve answered your own question at why your pay is so low compared to everyone else if you’ve ever asked yourself that question.
Why buff dots one patch just to nerf them and increase their costs the following patch?
When exactly will the vision for the direction of combat become clear?
@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Seriously this cloak and dagger communication is ridiculous
I'll agree to this piece. The communication is very lacking. I can understand not putting details out to the public before a pts cycle, but they can put together a roadmap and overall vision without many details. Hell, I've seen some grant proposals get approved without many details
If we could see the vision, it might help to understand why they buffed Dot's, then brought them back down. It could be to test another piece of the puzzle or a legitimate "Well that didn't work the way we intended".
The only true test for changes is the live server, which is why we hardly see major changes on pts, and probably why player feedback is largely ignored from pts. Things act wonky in any code once you ramp up usage, and you just don't get that from the pts environment.
They could at least be more open about the whole thing though."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard0 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »nordmarian wrote: »I ll be short, combat changes, even drastically ones are often required to change the balance in one direction or another and not let certain classes or skills to become too OP.
In PvE often I noticed end game raid teams to only promote a certain class to be able to join their teams.
In PvP often some classes get too OP and countering that balance has a good side effect.
If also increase performance by changing some skills so drastically it is even better. For example the Orb Synergy changes. It indeed increased performance by a good margin. Why? Because instead of having 1000 orbs on the screen, you only have one!
They clearly "balanced" the DoT scaling from U23, in which they ignored every PTR voice telling them otherwise, just to do a 180° for the most part in reverting those chance + slapping increased resource costs on top - and now they ignored the U24 PTR feedback just to do a 180° most likely yet again with U25.
That's the opposite of balancing and caring.
I disagree. I think they scaled the DoTs, saw the PTS feedback and the in-game feedback and effect and adapted to it in the swiftest manageable time - the next patch.
So in this PTS cycle you could argue that they did listen to players, only they were listening to older messages. They also tested out a variety of pre-arranged changes to see which ones worked best and player feedback might have had an immediate impact there. Player feedback in PTS week 5 won’t have been seriously reviewed until after the patch was launched (ie probably some time next week). I would imagine that 99% of all the changes that went live were exactly the ones planned by ZOS well before PTS started.
I suspect a similar adjustment will happen with the new changes after ZOS have had an opportunity to digest all the PTS feedback and observe the effects the changes have in the wild. And remember, what players who participate and provide feedback want may not be what’s best for the game overall.
It’s irrational and ill-informed to expect ZOS to make changes immediately in response to any feedback. You see this as unbalanced and uncaring, I see balance and caring but over a longer, less immediately reactive timescale.3 -
jao0199✭✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Sure, you have to sort through a lot of posts/threads to get to good/valuable feedback, but it's really bleeping obvious that ZOS doesn't care one bit about the feedback of their customers, or their customers in general as long as the money is flowing in through crown shop sales etc.
In essence I'd uphold integrity of delivering a quality product and talking with my customers - the complete opposite of what ZOS is doing.
Just one question: which customer feels more valued?
ZOS isn't an inanimate object. It's made up of people -- and just like everyone on the forums, they deserve to be treated humanely and with respect.
We're at a point where it's a which-came-first chicken-egg argument about who disrespected who first. The only way out is to stop looking at that and just make sure your own behaviour is not reprehensible, no matter what the other person is doing.
You have to give respect to deserve respect. You certainly have a better chance of getting respect when you aren't disrespectful.
ZOS is made up of people, and if you look at the forums, you know people sure ain't saints.
There is notthing disrespectfull on what that guy said. He basically said that ZOS doesnt care about us and he is right. I`ve been playing this game since Dark Brotherhood and the performance issues still exist and is getting worse every patch.
I dont believe in people saying that ZOS care and we need to be patient. They released MORE THAN 10 DLCS since i started playing this game and i didnt saw ONE PERFORMANCE IMPROVEMENT.4 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭zos, the people who work at zos, likely care more than the rest of you do. Their jobs are on the line every day. You can find other games to play.
the people that ultimately own zos dont care and dont just own zos. Thus if zos cant keep you occupied theyll find someone who can.
You see their influence when your doing a main quest and are forced to lie, cheat or steal to progress. More subtle and calculated.only a few years left to go now....
Current ideas for ESO improvement
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scorpius2k1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was really hoping when ZoS said they were going to communicate and be part of the community, they were actually going to do it, instead of being overlords just treating us like mere peasants. The only one I *ever* see actually make an attempt is @ZOS_GinaBruno, so thank you for being awesome and at least trying to do right by what the rest of the team said they would do over a year ago...
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