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'Maelstrom' Arena for Healers and Tanks
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MyPrist✭✭✭My first sucessefull mailstorm run was on tank 500-600cp with 10-12 k dps. It was and is my main character for so long time. It was really hard ... . 3-4 hours of pain and healing first boss and hell on 5 arena boss.
Ebon+warrior poet + master 2 handed and infernal guardian. And shield and sword on other bar.
I was new player and have not got money for some thing that will be better. Now it is not a problem, but i walk on dd there. Much faster (40-50 min may be)Edited by MyPrist on October 22, 2019 12:37PM1 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭My healer is stormproof. And the tank for my small group is also stormproof. You can do Maelstrom on characters that are not thoroughbred DPS characters, you just need to know how to tweak your setup/skills to be able to get through.
All I did for mine was adjust champion points, swap out Earthgore for Iceheart, and traded out my Olorimes for a heavy set of Julianos/Soulshine armor. I kept my sustain set (Lich) and my Lightning/resto setup, I just skilled my lightning bar with more damage skills. The rest of it was getting in there and learning how to negotiate the mechanics.2 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you should. I’ve seen (long) videos of tanks getting through VMA. I’ve seen other suboptimal build too (Broom and Bucket guy was cool).
Even my DPS is really a VMA build that I don’t take into other vet content. The more specialized for VMA, the easier it is.
It would be interesting to see a pure tank or healer challenge of some sort, and it would be good training for the roles. I just have no idea how they would do it."Get off my lawn!"1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The fact of the matter is that vma is not a dps focused instance in the equivalent way that the OPs suggestion would have to be for healers and tanks to have their own instance.
Secret world did this is a minor way with the gatekeeper but more aptly, wows legion did it with the mage tower ie a specifically designed instance with NPCs and encounter mechanics to push you to the limit in a given role under a doctored scenario. These types of content I am all for personally, however vma is not that type of content for a dps oriented character. 12k dps is buns, and it's all you need in the damage department to clear vma. The op mistakenly believes that vma is for dps builds when it is most definitely not.
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Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭This thread reminds me of that player who wanted to be able to flip camps in Cyrodiil by spamming heals only.
I'll never understand why some people want to bring builds/roles that are specifically designed for group play into solo content. The whole "holy trinity" concept only applies to group pve, and even there it isn't the one and only thing. In solo play it simply has no place.1 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I could care less about bragging rights. But it would be nice if Maelstrom Arena was designed to accommodate all combat roles instead of just DPS. That's one of the reasons I have so little interest in it. It's basically just one long DPS race and that's just not that interesting to me. I've always considered DPS race mechanics a lazy and cheap way to make content challenging. VMA is exhibit A for what I would consider horrid game design, especially in a MMO context and on a game that prides itself on diversity of play. So I like your approach to the arena far better.
Have to correct you on that. VMA is not a dps race and it never was. Granted arenas can feel easier with higher dps but you can still finish it with around 15k dps. High dps won't help you against number of mechanics. I like VMA a lot and especially it's attitude to kill you in plenty ways at the moments you did not expect. VMA has excellent design and each arena feel unique inside with their own flavour and mechanics you need to master.
VMA is a DPS race. Most of the mechanics revolve around doing just that and you aren't going to convince me otherwise because I've done it and come to that conclusion myself through my own experiences. Try doing VMA as a low damage defensive tank and see how it works out for you. I'll give you a hint: it won't end well.
If it's such a dps race, explain how someone went through it doing only light attacks (about 10K dps) and only bashing with a shield (about 5k or less).
The only stage I would agree is a dps race is the final boss of stage 5.
Before you assume anything: I have also done vma and have flawless. My experience tells me it's meant to teach how to survive and sustain through mechanics while doing damage.
I use sustain, damage and resistance sets to do vMA. I dont use my high dps trial sets for it because there is no healer and no tank.Edited by Katahdin on October 22, 2019 4:04PMBeta tester November 20132 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭I could care less about bragging rights. But it would be nice if Maelstrom Arena was designed to accommodate all combat roles instead of just DPS. That's one of the reasons I have so little interest in it. It's basically just one long DPS race and that's just not that interesting to me. I've always considered DPS race mechanics a lazy and cheap way to make content challenging. VMA is exhibit A for what I would consider horrid game design, especially in a MMO context and on a game that prides itself on diversity of play. So I like your approach to the arena far better.
Have to correct you on that. VMA is not a dps race and it never was. Granted arenas can feel easier with higher dps but you can still finish it with around 15k dps. High dps won't help you against number of mechanics. I like VMA a lot and especially it's attitude to kill you in plenty ways at the moments you did not expect. VMA has excellent design and each arena feel unique inside with their own flavour and mechanics you need to master.
VMA is a DPS race. Most of the mechanics revolve around doing just that and you aren't going to convince me otherwise because I've done it and come to that conclusion myself through my own experiences. Try doing VMA as a low damage defensive tank and see how it works out for you. I'll give you a hint: it won't end well.
If it's such a dps race, explain how someone went through it doing only light attacks (about 10K dps) and only bashing with a shield (about 5k or less).
The only stage I would agree is a dps race is the final boss of stage 5.
Before you assume anything: I have also done vma and have flawless. My experience tells me it's meant to teach how to survive and sustain through mechanics while doing damage.
I think you lot are too attached to the idea of a DPS race being tied to a one-shot mechanic built into an enrage.
It's a "race" because if you don't finish fast, it gets increasingly harder to complete thus it's in everyone's interest to finish, by doing as much damage as possible and all, as quickly as possible.
I'm sure everyone's familiar with the ice being smashed on R5 and how quickly death follows if you haven't met that criteria.
R6 as another example, does have an enrage mechanic and if your DPS is so low that you have to setup the stun and (enrage reset) over and over again, you risk dealing with more adds, missing hoarvers (and it can be a single one) and getting 1 shot.
R9 for anyone other than that pointless 50k tank that can just stand in all the Red, you do not want to get the colossus out, you can have up to 7/8 adds on you at that point and are going to struggle (applicable to beginners) - Let alone if it's the boss round, you have a daedroth and healer out with the Colossus and you're busy avoiding red and collecting ghosts and trying to survive, etc;
Don't forget all the single mechanics that can cause a death, like not killing the big ass Winged Daedroth thing in time and getting shoved back into a stun, the wave mechanic following and the 4 adds that have just spawned as well, you can get overrun very easily by having such low DPS.
Whilst a couple of these are survivable and don't dictate a one-shot style DPS Race for an enrage timer, it becomes increasingly hard and is increasingly easy to get overrun, resulting in a wipe.vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)0 -
de_la_Dude✭✭✭I don't think this idea would be very fun to be honest, and anyway vMA is not just for DPS roles. Its for players that can do it all at once.
Most of my vMA clears are on my healer not my DPS characters. If you think you can take a normal dungeon spec for any role into vMA and have success you are going to have a bad time. You need to adjust your builds for this content. For healers and tanks that means more dps, for dps it means more survivability.
It is supposed to be hard. It took me a long time to get my first clear. I recommend Joy's guide which can be found elsewhere on this forum.2 -
Arjuna1696✭✭✭I would just love another single player trial. Or just more single-player content types in general. Or hard mode delves. But I know it's an MMO and that's not the thing that'll bring the most monies.1 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I could care less about bragging rights. But it would be nice if Maelstrom Arena was designed to accommodate all combat roles instead of just DPS. That's one of the reasons I have so little interest in it. It's basically just one long DPS race and that's just not that interesting to me. I've always considered DPS race mechanics a lazy and cheap way to make content challenging. VMA is exhibit A for what I would consider horrid game design, especially in a MMO context and on a game that prides itself on diversity of play. So I like your approach to the arena far better.
Have to correct you on that. VMA is not a dps race and it never was. Granted arenas can feel easier with higher dps but you can still finish it with around 15k dps. High dps won't help you against number of mechanics. I like VMA a lot and especially it's attitude to kill you in plenty ways at the moments you did not expect. VMA has excellent design and each arena feel unique inside with their own flavour and mechanics you need to master.
VMA is a DPS race. Most of the mechanics revolve around doing just that and you aren't going to convince me otherwise because I've done it and come to that conclusion myself through my own experiences. Try doing VMA as a low damage defensive tank and see how it works out for you. I'll give you a hint: it won't end well.
If it's such a dps race, explain how someone went through it doing only light attacks (about 10K dps) and only bashing with a shield (about 5k or less).
The only stage I would agree is a dps race is the final boss of stage 5.
Before you assume anything: I have also done vma and have flawless. My experience tells me it's meant to teach how to survive and sustain through mechanics while doing damage.
I think you lot are too attached to the idea of a DPS race being tied to a one-shot mechanic built into an enrage.
It's a "race" because if you don't finish fast, it gets increasingly harder to complete thus it's in everyone's interest to finish, by doing as much damage as possible and all, as quickly as possible.
I'm sure everyone's familiar with the ice being smashed on R5 and how quickly death follows if you haven't met that criteria.
R6 as another example, does have an enrage mechanic and if your DPS is so low that you have to setup the stun and (enrage reset) over and over again, you risk dealing with more adds, missing hoarvers (and it can be a single one) and getting 1 shot.
R9 for anyone other than that pointless 50k tank that can just stand in all the Red, you do not want to get the colossus out, you can have up to 7/8 adds on you at that point and are going to struggle (applicable to beginners) - Let alone if it's the boss round, you have a daedroth and healer out with the Colossus and you're busy avoiding red and collecting ghosts and trying to survive, etc;
Don't forget all the single mechanics that can cause a death, like not killing the big ass Winged Daedroth thing in time and getting shoved back into a stun, the wave mechanic following and the 4 adds that have just spawned as well, you can get overrun very easily by having such low DPS.
Whilst a couple of these are survivable and don't dictate a one-shot style DPS Race for an enrage timer, it becomes increasingly hard and is increasingly easy to get overrun, resulting in a wipe.
For the daedric titan you can just pop a shield sigil, it will reflect his fireballs to him and his archer adds will just kill themselves when they try to snipe you. It also works on stage 5 (so you can completely ignore nereids and mages), 7 (against archers) or stage 8 (against mages).
It is true that low dps makes things harder in this game, but it applies to everything, not just vMA. In some instances you have a dps race mechanic on top of that (for example, enraging atronachs in ICP or ice casters during Zaan boss fight), but usually you can still win, even though it would be harder than it would've been with an optimized setup.
vMA does not have dps race mechanics, on the contary, you might get punished for dpsing things too hard (stage 5).Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU1 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭VMA is very easy you can do it on a variety of builds so the question is, why would you be stubborn and saying 'I want to do it on a no damage build that is pointless for solo play?'
Make your tank a wolf and do it on that, very easy.
Is it that you cant do it or that you just want to stand and hold block so things die of boredom?
You make a solo build that is a jack of all trades not Pidgeon hole yourself into uselessness.
That's actually the opposite of what I'm saying. I am saying DO NOT attempt VMA on a low damage build because the content is not designed to accommodate it.
The problem on this thread is for some weird reason people just aren't willing to admit this and continue to push this fantasy that VMA welcomes all builds - even defensive builds with poor offenses. IT DOESN'T.
But as far as general soloing outside of VMA - you hardly need 15k DPS to be effective at that and purely defensive builds can solo just fine and tank just fine (which is of course what it's role in group content would be). What would be silly and pointless to me would be for me to respec my defensive characters or tanks every time I want to go solo something when it's not needed (or even preferred, as soloing as a DPS is even more boring because everything basically dies instantly). Unfortunately though if I want to do VMA I have to do just that - because defensive characters with low offenses cannot progress in VMA due to... yes - DPS races! Which is what my point was all along. I also know many players who would disagree with you that my tank or defensive characters are "useless". It's nice to have some defense on hand sometimes - even while doing solo questing content (like when a dragon lands etc.).
If the content is not designed 'in your opinion' for something, then don't do it!
You have 18 char slots, make different things, play in different styles, do all the content as fun as you can.
You don't make content to suite your build, you make your build suite the content.
I don't know what content they could ever release that would work for this game that you could practice tanking or healing in an arena environment the mechs don't allow it, if you wanna do that then my suggestion is play content that needs a tank or healer but that aint solo.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.My first sucessefull mailstorm run was on tank 500-600cp with 10-12 k dps. It was and is my main character for so long time. It was really hard ... . 3-4 hours of pain and healing first boss and hell on 5 arena boss.
Ebon+warrior poet + master 2 handed and infernal guardian. And shield and sword on other bar.
I was new player and have not got money for some thing that will be better. Now it is not a problem, but i walk on dd there. Much faster (40-50 min may be)
Thank you for this post. Not only does it demonstrate vMA is not role specific but also demonstrates very well what I had said earlier that it is best to use a build suitable for vMA. Heck, the top raiders most/totally use a different build for vMA than they do for raiding.2 -
pavsaint✭✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »VMA teaches hybrid builds that have to do all three roles to survive. Good resistances, healing and damage. Other than showing you can learn mechanics, it is useless for doing a group dungeon or trial role.
I don't find that it's much use as a training guide either. It punishes otherwise effective builds by forcing them to meet certain criteria to pass its assortment of cheesy trial and error mechanics that simply kill you otherwise. It's more like mini game a developer came up with to try and pigeonhole players into specific character set ups - which accounts for most of it's so-called "challenge" outside of learning what ever silly new gimmick you have to die over and over again figuring out.
I understand some players may like this sort of gameplay. But it wasn't my cup of tea and was one of my biggest disappointments. I was looking forward to some fun solo content when I purchased Orsinium (which I bought mainly for the arena) but instead all I got was some of the most annoying and irritating content I've ever had the displeasure of suffering through.
Totally agreed it is just mini game to make players spend time energy and money in getting the right gear set up no enjoyment whatsoeverEdited by pavsaint on May 22, 2020 4:36PM0 -
Ryath_Waylander✭✭✭✭✭
✭This thread reminds me of that player who wanted to be able to flip camps in Cyrodiil by spamming heals only.
I'll never understand why some people want to bring builds/roles that are specifically designed for group play into solo content. The whole "holy trinity" concept only applies to group pve, and even there it isn't the one and only thing. In solo play it simply has no place.
I don't think it's always a case of wanting to bring a wrong role into vma. I main a healer, always have. I don't have the talent or the ping for high dps rotations. I have gotten to the poison lizard stage so far. I am experimenting with CP, skills and gear to add to damage as I go along. No changes to my healer are too profound. It's a slow process but I'm learning a lot and it's improved my healer to the extent that I can now kill 90% of WB's solo. I couldn't imagine taking a tank or healer in voluntarily if you had a suitable DPS build though. As @Katahdin said, it is definitely teaching me to survive and sustain.Edited by Ryath_Waylander on May 22, 2020 7:37PM0 -
soniku4ikblis✭✭✭In the words of meta, "just give me my daily crafting writs, my housing and furniture, and my rando questing and I'm happy."__._-*._._._.-*'"{Sonic Euphoric Bliss}"'*-._._._.*-_.__0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A bit long, but I will keep dropping it in relevant posts. I assume some already read.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/524205/the-undaunted-certification-zvavi-is-bored-in-quarantineEdited by zvavi on May 23, 2020 12:08AM0