Heatnix90 wrote: »

Lmao, what you two fail to realize is that a stun/hard CC overrides any utility that the other gap closers provide (Flying Dagger's cc is dependent on a target casting), which is why I listed Shield Charge as the one gap closer that comes closest to matching Toppling's utility

I ask for one skill to be adjusted to be brought in line with other skills and suddenly all the forumplars come out of the woodwork, lol

The solution is pretty clear, tbh. Focused Charge's morphs should offer a choice:

• Toppling should deal more damage, stun a target, but should no longer proc Off-Balance
• Explosive should provide AoE Off-Balance on all targets hit within the initial target's radius.

None of this would be an issue if ZOS hadn't decided to remove the minimum range requirement for all gap-closers. If they bring that back then I see no issue in keeping gap closers as is.

You failed to realise that we were both sarcastically pointing out how easy it is to make something sound "overtuned" just by listing anything and everything it can possibly do, such as the OP did r.e. Toppling.

Your solution is to remove Off-Balance? Off-Balance is an almost redundancy next patch for Templar, so you can rest easy.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You're strong because skills are overtuned.

For example : Best instant ult in the game currently because it doesnt have a cast time, which to be clear im against all cast times on ults.

Purify: Self purge, best group purge via synergy, decently big heal from it. I'm healing people for 2k-3k crit tickm from a passive heal. Massive aoe which if you take the other morph also acts like a very nice aoe dot. Also massive aoe snare.

Living dark: Stupidly designed skill in where you come worse off for actually damaging the templar. Passives heals and passive roots with low cooldown. Next patch its going to be 60% snare which is equally annoying. Its on the level when wings used to shut down ranged builds. You get punished for damaging the templar and most of the time the skill just shuts down offence because you did some random dmg to them.

Gap closer: Strongest gap closer in the game by far. Super fast its almost like a teleport with a build in cc that lasts 3s. Proc off balance which is basically a 10% dmg buff on gap close. Also proc burning light which makes it the most damaging gap closer in the game as it easily get an added 4-6k tooltip. So it stuns + high dmg + gives 10% dmg boost.

The class has lots of sustain. I run 1600 regen on my magplar and sustain just fine. Via minor magikasteal from a 28m aoe free debuff skill. + mega sustain from a very cheap armour buff.


Personally for me the purify + bubble are too overtuned.

Purify simply does way too many things for 1 skill. Group purge/ self purge, healing. dmg and aoe snare....

The bubble is annoyingly designed. I know its meant to be defensive but straight up cutting mobility which ends up stopping your offensive alltogther from dmging once annoys me. Maybe the cooldown per person should be increased. The heal is fine and its more designed to be strong via many in a sense. Although most of the time you can fully proc the heal on your own. Maybe cap the heals one person can proc but then increase the amount it can proc from multiple people?

The damage of Onslaught is not even comparable to Swee, I've even got merciless' hitting more than my sweep.
Sweep doesn't stun and most Templars don't run an AOE stun, you get the good with the bad, it's a good ult but not really overtuned if you want to lay it out on the table.

Yep, self purge that's absolutely mandatory as a Templar and which only changes over the years has been consistent nerfs - Feel free to take yours off and see if you still think Templar OP. We don't have the self defence in other areas when we build for any acceptable burst.
Nobody takes the other morph.
Nobody is being hit with that tiny snare if you are doing anything other than holding block and healing/mistforming or if they're running simple snare immunity.

LD is being changed but just so you're aware, skills where you come off worse for damaging the Opponent are things like Dragon Fire Scales and Crystallised Slab, bubble only roots you and heals us (If you're not running the same, easily accessible snare immunity).
I know it's getting changed, but how funny was it that people couldn't deal with a root - I literally never had a single issue with it running snare immunity, not once all patch - I'm guessing you're a SNB templar, do you cleanse all the grasps and talons etc?
Yep next patch it applies a 60% snare, but you can deal with it the same way you can deal with the current bubble though, just saying.

Off Balance is redundant next patch and as you can see above, it's easy to make things sound powerful by listing the possibilities - How often is TC the cause of your Burning Light proc, do you know? If you're spamming TC then that's your weakness, otherwise, it's almost always being procced by other abilities.
Secondly, god forbid we have a functioning gap closer again. You're talking about things that have been simply fixed, as OP, sure it's a good gap closer but what're bad ones?

Many classes can run 1600 recovery, non issue.

Out of your issues, only 1 of them has changed to be stronger (LD) and is being changed next patch already.

Bubble is sorted (unless you don't run snare immunity, but then how do you deal with anything else any other class uses) but play a Templar without snare immunity against Talons, Crippling, heavy snares etc and see how fast your damage is shut down or you have to re-set up, if you've played Templar long enough then you already know what that's like because it's all we knew for years.

When it comes to ritual, you've done what the OP has done and mixed up two morphs - Nobody is running RoR and even if they were, the damage per 2s is negligible - The snare isn't really applied to people by either morph if you're actively damaging them as you probably have a better snare on them already and most inportantly, none of that has changed for the longest time.
Until this patch where everyone ran damage that we could always mitigate heavily, how often did you hear about Ritual? Either of them? You didn't and you won't next patch either once the sheep leave so ritual doesn't really need touched.

Next patch, we'll be doing almost all the same things but I bet we don't even get a mention.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

OP's not wrong a lot of templar skills are overloaded why is why they're so strong now.

When did they overload these skills and which ones?

We're strong because dopes are so stuck on the meta and playing in a way we've always been able to heavily mitigate.

You're strong because skills are overtuned.

For example : Best instant ult in the game currently because it doesnt have a cast time, which to be clear im against all cast times on ults.

Purify: Self purge, best group purge via synergy, decently big heal from it. I'm healing people for 2k-3k crit tickm from a passive heal. Massive aoe which if you take the other morph also acts like a very nice aoe dot. Also massive aoe snare.

Living dark: Stupidly designed skill in where you come worse off for actually damaging the templar. Passives heals and passive roots with low cooldown. Next patch its going to be 60% snare which is equally annoying. Its on the level when wings used to shut down ranged builds. You get punished for damaging the templar and most of the time the skill just shuts down offence because you did some random dmg to them.

Gap closer: Strongest gap closer in the game by far. Super fast its almost like a teleport with a build in cc that lasts 3s. Proc off balance which is basically a 10% dmg buff on gap close. Also proc burning light which makes it the most damaging gap closer in the game as it easily get an added 4-6k tooltip. So it stuns + high dmg + gives 10% dmg boost.

The class has lots of sustain. I run 1600 regen on my magplar and sustain just fine. Via minor magikasteal from a 28m aoe free debuff skill. + mega sustain from a very cheap armour buff.


Personally for me the purify + bubble are too overtuned.

Purify simply does way too many things for 1 skill. Group purge/ self purge, healing. dmg and aoe snare....

The bubble is annoyingly designed. I know its meant to be defensive but straight up cutting mobility which ends up stopping your offensive alltogther from dmging once annoys me. Maybe the cooldown per person should be increased. The heal is fine and its more designed to be strong via many in a sense. Although most of the time you can fully proc the heal on your own. Maybe cap the heals one person can proc but then increase the amount it can proc from multiple people?

You know what's sad, ZOS will listen to posts like this and nerf the crap out of Templars just like they did to every other FOTM class. I've read your posts and your complaints about how frustrating it is to play nightblades. So you know this cycle of "balance" sucks and yet you're advocating ZOS to it anyway.

How original.

You know whats sad, people like you will sit here and jump on any thread that says how strong their mains is. Like literally every thread related to balacing how strong templar is you're there denying it.

Are you really not acknowledging how strong the class is? You happily going to sit there and deny it in some weird attempt to somehow convince people the class isn't strong and half of pvp isn't a templar?

It's very simple they overtuned the class. It was said on the pts and people like you did everything they could to stop zos addressing it so you can get you 3 months of easy mode for your main. Wouldn't have this much complaints if zos sorted the class out before people had to deal with them for 3 months.

It's time to stop, start putting game balance before your bias and selfishness. What actually is sad is people spending so much time avidly defending their main.

I'm jumping on your because you think you know it all and you constantly complain about how strong things are and ask for nerfs - after you complain that the devs hurt the game by nerfs.

In 5+ years of these forums, I have never once asked for any nerfs to any class. Never. That's being consistent. So your accusations of bias are wrong. If you ever actually paid attention to what I have written, you'd know that. And I said nothing on the last PTS because I stopped playing the game, but thanks for assuming and proving you are just making crap up. I didn't PvP one time over the summer when my main was OP, so you're wrong there too.

I do not deny templars are strong and have admitted as such elsewhere. I'll say it again here because that's not a problem. Templars, DKs, and Wardens are all good specs and that's where balance should go. That is the goal ZOS should be striving for. It's not a mistake that's needs to get fixed. It is a model they need to emulate so people like you stop coming onto these threads whining how their class ins't fun any more to play and rather see the game further degrade rather than make legit improvments. Keep telling others to put aside their bias and selfishness

leepalmer95 wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Heatnix90 wrote: »

Lmao, what you two fail to realize is that a stun/hard CC overrides any utility that the other gap closers provide (Flying Dagger's cc is dependent on a target casting), which is why I listed Shield Charge as the one gap closer that comes closest to matching Toppling's utility

I ask for one skill to be adjusted to be brought in line with other skills and suddenly all the forumplars come out of the woodwork, lol

The solution is pretty clear, tbh. Focused Charge's morphs should offer a choice:

• Toppling should deal more damage, stun a target, but should no longer proc Off-Balance
• Explosive should provide AoE Off-Balance on all targets hit within the initial target's radius.

None of this would be an issue if ZOS hadn't decided to remove the minimum range requirement for all gap-closers. If they bring that back then I see no issue in keeping gap closers as is.

You failed to realise that we were both sarcastically pointing out how easy it is to make something sound "overtuned" just by listing anything and everything it can possibly do, such as the OP did r.e. Toppling.

Your solution is to remove Off-Balance? Off-Balance is an almost redundancy next patch for Templar, so you can rest easy.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You're strong because skills are overtuned.

For example : Best instant ult in the game currently because it doesnt have a cast time, which to be clear im against all cast times on ults.

Purify: Self purge, best group purge via synergy, decently big heal from it. I'm healing people for 2k-3k crit tickm from a passive heal. Massive aoe which if you take the other morph also acts like a very nice aoe dot. Also massive aoe snare.

Living dark: Stupidly designed skill in where you come worse off for actually damaging the templar. Passives heals and passive roots with low cooldown. Next patch its going to be 60% snare which is equally annoying. Its on the level when wings used to shut down ranged builds. You get punished for damaging the templar and most of the time the skill just shuts down offence because you did some random dmg to them.

Gap closer: Strongest gap closer in the game by far. Super fast its almost like a teleport with a build in cc that lasts 3s. Proc off balance which is basically a 10% dmg buff on gap close. Also proc burning light which makes it the most damaging gap closer in the game as it easily get an added 4-6k tooltip. So it stuns + high dmg + gives 10% dmg boost.

The class has lots of sustain. I run 1600 regen on my magplar and sustain just fine. Via minor magikasteal from a 28m aoe free debuff skill. + mega sustain from a very cheap armour buff.


Personally for me the purify + bubble are too overtuned.

Purify simply does way too many things for 1 skill. Group purge/ self purge, healing. dmg and aoe snare....

The bubble is annoyingly designed. I know its meant to be defensive but straight up cutting mobility which ends up stopping your offensive alltogther from dmging once annoys me. Maybe the cooldown per person should be increased. The heal is fine and its more designed to be strong via many in a sense. Although most of the time you can fully proc the heal on your own. Maybe cap the heals one person can proc but then increase the amount it can proc from multiple people?

The damage of Onslaught is not even comparable to Swee, I've even got merciless' hitting more than my sweep.
Sweep doesn't stun and most Templars don't run an AOE stun, you get the good with the bad, it's a good ult but not really overtuned if you want to lay it out on the table.

Yep, self purge that's absolutely mandatory as a Templar and which only changes over the years has been consistent nerfs - Feel free to take yours off and see if you still think Templar OP. We don't have the self defence in other areas when we build for any acceptable burst.
Nobody takes the other morph.
Nobody is being hit with that tiny snare if you are doing anything other than holding block and healing/mistforming or if they're running simple snare immunity.

LD is being changed but just so you're aware, skills where you come off worse for damaging the Opponent are things like Dragon Fire Scales and Crystallised Slab, bubble only roots you and heals us (If you're not running the same, easily accessible snare immunity).
I know it's getting changed, but how funny was it that people couldn't deal with a root - I literally never had a single issue with it running snare immunity, not once all patch - I'm guessing you're a SNB templar, do you cleanse all the grasps and talons etc?
Yep next patch it applies a 60% snare, but you can deal with it the same way you can deal with the current bubble though, just saying.

Off Balance is redundant next patch and as you can see above, it's easy to make things sound powerful by listing the possibilities - How often is TC the cause of your Burning Light proc, do you know? If you're spamming TC then that's your weakness, otherwise, it's almost always being procced by other abilities.
Secondly, god forbid we have a functioning gap closer again. You're talking about things that have been simply fixed, as OP, sure it's a good gap closer but what're bad ones?

Many classes can run 1600 recovery, non issue.

Out of your issues, only 1 of them has changed to be stronger (LD) and is being changed next patch already.

Bubble is sorted (unless you don't run snare immunity, but then how do you deal with anything else any other class uses) but play a Templar without snare immunity against Talons, Crippling, heavy snares etc and see how fast your damage is shut down or you have to re-set up, if you've played Templar long enough then you already know what that's like because it's all we knew for years.

When it comes to ritual, you've done what the OP has done and mixed up two morphs - Nobody is running RoR and even if they were, the damage per 2s is negligible - The snare isn't really applied to people by either morph if you're actively damaging them as you probably have a better snare on them already and most inportantly, none of that has changed for the longest time.
Until this patch where everyone ran damage that we could always mitigate heavily, how often did you hear about Ritual? Either of them? You didn't and you won't next patch either once the sheep leave so ritual doesn't really need touched.

Next patch, we'll be doing almost all the same things but I bet we don't even get a mention.

So you have 2 templars? You're not to be bias then?

Feels like you wrote half of that for no reason but to just write something. Half of it isn't true or exaggerated.

Cresent is super strong ult, its instant, cheap, can be cancelled and comes with a strong dot. For perspective my stamplar has a 26k tooltip on onslaught and if I throw in the same cp in ele expert as I have mighty my cresent is 14.5k which add 60% is 23.2k. So the dmg isn'tthat far off tooltip wise, its half the cost. It also has 7k dot every 2s for 6s. So just 1 tick of the dot puts it as higher tooltip. Oh and it can proc burning light which is 8k for me. All for 72ult.

You greatly underwhelming the snare of purify, sure if you dmg them with jabs/ sweeps every 2s that have a bigger than. But lets be honest you don't actively do that. Nor does everyone has snare immunity up 24/7. So when anyone is fighting a templar they are literally snared 100% of the time and I don't believe templars should just have that passively without specifically slotting a skill like caltraps or such. Snares are strong and if you want to tie people down you should be forced to actively do that and not get it passively. The skill does enough.

The dmg on Ror is decent enough, it basically disables nightblades and when there is a few templars the dmg adds up a lot. The synergy on purify is the strongest cleanse in the game as it removes everything. So basically having another templar is more than enough counter bad effects so you can easily run Ror. I hit people for like 1.5k - 2k ticks.

Bubble is stupidly strong now and its still going to be next patch, 60% snare basically makes any character some to a standstill. It procs of any dmg which is stupid with a 3s cooldown per person. Basically forcing people to use snare immunity every time the templar bubbles which again shuts down offence so easily. With a 3s cooldown you can easily root/ snare a person twice in 1 bubble while they'd have to counter it twice. Don't downplay have strong bubble is, the fact you're sitting there saying 'its only a root' and you've never had trouble with it says everything.

Off balance is not redundant. Throw 75 into thaum will still be worth it, 10% flat dmg increase to everything. You can stuff stack direct dmg a bit. Off balance gives 2x resources on heavy, allows you to medium weave to restun and 10% dmg.

Burning light procs enough on both cresent and the gap closer to be significant. Even if the gap closer only stunned + proc'd off balance it would still be the best gap closer in the game. Adding 25% chance to randomly deal like 6k extra tooltip dmg is very strong. You can't sit there and say burning light is irrelvant because it only procs sometimes.

Yeah, I'm not saying Templar isn't strong, I'm just telling you that the things you think are overtuned (that aren't already being fixed) aren't overtuned. Just because I play the class doesn't mean you can discredit what I'm saying as "biased".

Onslaught is not even close to Sweep. It's better 1vX but the burst on onslaught and following is insane. Like I said, you take the good with the bad on the ult. It's not weak but it's not onslaught. Lay it out however you want, it's not even close.

No I don't sweep constantly but I have reflective active almost 100% so no, ritual provides next to 0 snares for me or if it does, is very quickly replaced. Maybe in Cyrodil when they're randomly placed around amongst the zergs they become a problem.
Ritual is the same as caltrops and we do have it slotted? I don't understand that part.

If your claims are based on "few templars" doing the same thing, that's not great. Any class can stack any skill and do the same thing. RoR is pants, especially if you aint got a "few templars" to help you.

No, they can purge snares and roots, can roll, can use mist, can immov or can just run simple snare immunity that everyone now has access to, like we had to for years. This won't be the first time you've been rooted, nor will it be the first time you get stunned, caltrops is 50% snare so it's not much different and I'm sure you've been in those before.
But, I haven't played with the 60% snare so time will tell.
All I know is, atm it's literally a root and I either pre cast RAT or cast it when I need it, it's really really simple to do, I do the same thing when I'm snared or rooted by other classes too - What a great addition to the game, shame people completely neglect it and opt to *** and moan instead.
I'm not saying it's not strong at the minute, but people were upset with the root and it amazed me.

You keep using OB that's fine, sounds alright if you slow play fights but I don't play like that so won't be, I'll be doing more damage overall without it.

Alright so it procs now and then, the point is, you can't guarantee it and with that, is it fair to sell something as overtuned based on a small % chance at some extra damage? I don't think so.

CleymenZero wrote: »

Man people are so sensitive these days when you point out imbalances lol

Got my 11 of my 16 toons on the board for the end of campaign rewards this month and I've never had so much fun melting people while doing almost nothing as I did with my templars lol. Magplar was by far the easiest.

From a distance cast reflective light and degeneration (running tristats or immov pots so I buff with those skills), cast living dark (and shield if 2-3 targets) then toppling charge into jabs until dead. Doesn't take much with the right sets. Rinse and repeat. I'm not particularly skilled and I melted a lot of poor souls. Oh and in Battlegrounds you come out doing 700k+ damage with 400k heals in a decent group (depending on the game mode). It's so funny.

Bottom line, I'm not asking for a nerf either cause I enjoy playing Templar right now. You can turn your brain off, watch YouTube videos while being pretty successful. Will I cry when they nerf it? Nope don't care, there will be another class that's going to be imbalanced and I'm gonna play that next.

Who you killing with 2 dots, a root, a gap closer and a spammable? What sets are you running?

I'm guessing based on that, that you're killing 200CP zerglings in Cyro. That and also dealing 700k damage in a BG is not an indicator of being OP and in fact, is actually very low damage for any class.

I don't care about the changes, I have played Templar since D1 and will continue to adapt patch by patch but I won't appreciate people chatting absolute bollocks because they have a months experience on the class or they play it like a healer at the back of a stacked group and think that is grounds to call the class OP.

The skills people are talking about, excluding Bubble, haven't been changed in the longest time, nobody complained about them until now and I'd bet nobody will be complaining next patch, even about these same "overtuned" skills rofl.