New concept idea: Class Specialization

CaptainVenom · October 2019

I've been thinking about this for a while... what if we could expand our class by picking a skill line from another class? I think it could bring a lot of diversity.

For example: for every class, you may have two class options to select:

Dragonknight - Necromancer | Templar
Nightblade - Sorcerer | Warden
Sorcerer - Nightblade | Necromancer
Templar - Dragonknight | Warden
Warden - Templar | Nightblade
Necromancer - Dragonknight | Sorcerer

Dragonknight skill line: Ardent Flame

Nightblade skill line: Siphoning

Sorcerer skill line: Dark Magic

Templar skill line: Dawn's Wrath

Warden skill line: Winter's Embrace

Necromancer skill line: Bone Tyrant

Those skill line would not have ultimate or their passive skills, as it shouldn't operate better than the class itself. Instead, picking it would grant a new passive for skill line 10/25/50 based on class skill line chosen:

Dragonknight: adds 3%/5%/8% increased damage over time for all skills.
Nightblade: adds 3%/5%/8% chance of recovering 3%/5%/8% of any direct damage inflicted as Health. 5 seconds cooldown.
Sorcerer: increases physical and spell penetration by 3%/5%/8%
Templar: increases healing done by 3%/5%/8%
Warden: adds 3%/5%/8% chance to inflict chilled/burning/off-balance/diseased/poisoned debuff when dealing damage. 10 seconds cooldown.
Necromancer: adds 3%/5%/8% chance to automatically drain an enemy's [X] magicka and stamina when killing them. 10 seconds cooldown.

Wouldn't it be great?

srfrogg23 · October 2019

I think it would introduce a lot of very OP, if not broken, skill combos that are prevented by the class system now. It seems like that would defeat the purpose of having classes. Not to mention the META messiahs on the forums declaring "THIS IS NOW THE ONLY PLAYABLE BUILD!!!"...

CaptainVenom · October 2019

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I think it would introduce a lot of very OP, if not broken, skill combos that are prevented by the class system now. It seems like that would defeat the purpose of having classes. Not to mention the META messiahs on the forums declaring "THIS IS NOW THE ONLY PLAYABLE BUILD!!!"...

Of course, this is a mere example. Of course, if implemented, ZOS would need to balance it.

sindalstar · October 2019

Mmm, i'm not really a fan personally.
I've never been much of an advocate of 'multiclassing' systems where you have a base class and 'a secondary class'.

In a game where theirs already a lot of skills just lying around and getting ignored in guilds, aliance, weapons, the access to 'more' skills doesn't strike me as how things would be improved.

it can be balanced, sure, but acutally doing so is probably going to cause more heck than help

Idinuse · October 2019

CaptainVenom wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I think it would introduce a lot of very OP, if not broken, skill combos that are prevented by the class system now. It seems like that would defeat the purpose of having classes. Not to mention the META messiahs on the forums declaring "THIS IS NOW THE ONLY PLAYABLE BUILD!!!"...

Of course, this is a mere example. Of course, if implemented, ZOS would need to balance it.

This is where your suggestion might fall apart though.

ZOS so far seems incapable of not showing their bias to certain class/classes and cater to “friends” of ZOS’s desires for their particular play styles/builds, IMHO.

Dragonnord · October 2019

Do you know how many years we players would be suffering in anger and frustration while ZOS can finish something like that, balanced and without bugs? No thanks. Let the game walk the path its going now.

molecule · October 2019

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Of course, if implemented, ZOS would need to balance it.

LOL

gepe87 · October 2019

No.
Balance and identity issues.

Each class must be unique, as their skill toolkit.
A viable option: Add a 4th Class skill tree to solve some class identity issues and bring more diversity to builds (e.g magdk ranged; sorcerer melee) and fill some lore purposes (illusion; mysticism,alteration magic)

Although "Specialization" seems a copy paste from GW2, its a good idea to bring that to eso.

Gnome_Saiyan · October 2019

Interesting idea. Personally, I'd just be happy with a specialized skill line for each class that is exclusively magicka or stamina, based on which you prefer for that particular toon.

idk · October 2019

I am not knocking OP's idea as I am pretty sure OP essentially copied it from another game. I can think of one off the top of my head. However, considering the major change fatigue we are experiencing as Zos revamps everything for their new "vision" for combat in the game I would suggest a total and even more massive reword for combat is nothing short of the worst thing Zos could every consider.

CaptainVenom · October 2019

gepe87 wrote: »

Although "Specialization" seems a copy paste from GW2, its a good idea to bring that to eso.

idk wrote: »

I am not knocking OP's idea as I am pretty sure OP essentially copied it from another game. I can think of one off the top of my head. However, considering the major change fatigue we are experiencing as Zos revamps everything for their new "vision" for combat in the game I would suggest a total and even more massive reword for combat is nothing short of the worst thing Zos could every consider.

Actually, no. I never played GW2 or knew a game with such concept. The most similar from it is the subclass system from L2, and it looks nothing like it.

idk · October 2019

CaptainVenom wrote: »

gepe87 wrote: »

Although "Specialization" seems a copy paste from GW2, its a good idea to bring that to eso.

idk wrote: »

I am not knocking OP's idea as I am pretty sure OP essentially copied it from another game. I can think of one off the top of my head. However, considering the major change fatigue we are experiencing as Zos revamps everything for their new "vision" for combat in the game I would suggest a total and even more massive reword for combat is nothing short of the worst thing Zos could every consider.

Actually, no. I never played GW2 or knew a game with such concept. The most similar from it is the subclass system from L2, and it looks nothing like it.

I did not mention GW2, but ok. The game I was most thinking about is one in development that a number of ESO players have their eye on including the leader of the guild that had the first crowned emperor in this game.

Regardless, I seriously doubt Zos will want to totally revamp the game yet again right when they are in the middle of a major revamp as it would be a monumentally bad idea to deliver even more change when it is having such a major negative effect. Yes, it would require a major revamp to deal with balance.

chrightt · October 2019

No, that would suck quite a lot. Imagine fighting everyone with streak because the sorcerer passive for lightning line doesn’t require slotting a lightning skill anyway nor does it provide significant passives. Even without your bonus suggested passive the whole system would still suck. Everyone can get minor berserk if they just opt for bird of prey while gaining mobility advantage. People can just slot igneous as Stan classes so they’re as tanky as DKs. Also, DK’s skill choice would suck too because their dots are tied to their passive so ain’t no one gonna choose that. I guess Magicka classes who want a burst heal can just pick up heals from Templars oh and everyone can be a pet lord now. You literally took a dump on the already not-doing-so-well class identity.

barney2525 · October 2019

Ummm. No. Don't think so.

First off, if you are going to do something you do it completely. A skill line comes with passives and with an Ultimate. It should be all or nothing.

And... it should be nothing. How many classes are there that many players think have 2 good skill line and one that sux? Now the player can flush the one that sux - and in effect, remove it from the game entirely.

This almost sound like a con job, as a first step toward - Let us decide what skill lines we want for our character.

I should be able to call myself a templar as long as I have something templar-ish on the character.

IMHO - Not a good idea.

ghastley · October 2019

The current class skill lines are all magicka-based, with the weapon lines providing the stamina abilities. This would swing the balance over to magicka, which would not help.

Jeremy · October 2019

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I've been thinking about this for a while... what if we could expand our class by picking a skill line from another class? I think it could bring a lot of diversity.

For example: for every class, you may have two class options to select:
Dragonknight - Necromancer | Templar

Nightblade - Sorcerer | Warden

Sorcerer - Nightblade | Necromancer

Templar - Dragonknight | Warden

Warden - Templar | Nightblade

Necromancer - Dragonknight | Sorcerer

Dragonknight skill line: Ardent Flame

Nightblade skill line: Siphoning

Sorcerer skill line: Dark Magic

Templar skill line: Dawn's Wrath

Warden skill line: Winter's Embrace

Necromancer skill line: Bone Tyrant

Those skill line would not have ultimate or their passive skills, as it shouldn't operate better than the class itself. Instead, picking it would grant a new passive for skill line 10/25/50 based on class skill line chosen:
Dragonknight: adds 3%/5%/8% increased damage over time for all skills.

Nightblade: adds 3%/5%/8% chance of recovering 3%/5%/8% of any direct damage inflicted as Health. 5 seconds cooldown.

Sorcerer: increases physical and spell penetration by 3%/5%/8%

Templar: increases healing done by 3%/5%/8%

Warden: adds 3%/5%/8% chance to inflict chilled/burning/off-balance/diseased/poisoned debuff when dealing damage. 10 seconds cooldown.

Necromancer: adds 3%/5%/8% chance to automatically drain an enemy's [X] magicka and stamina when killing them. 10 seconds cooldown.

Wouldn't it be great?

So basically like the sub job system from Final Fantasy 11?

Would be neat.

Frankly though, I think they should just change all of the classes into accessible skill lines and let characters create what ever kind of character they want. The structure of this game is well-designed and I believe could accommodate such a system without balance issues or over-powered combinations becoming an unworkable problem.

Araneae6537 · October 2019

From the title, my initial response was “No” as I would fear it would end up reducing options and variety instead of adding them (look at GW2, if you’ve played it, for many of the specializations only one build/function is really viable and not choosing a specialization was a non-competitor option).

If it truly was just adding extra options of our choice as you suggest, that sounds like it could be fun, but I expect we would still lose more in the end when they inevitably try to “balance” it.

TheShadowScout · October 2019

CaptainVenom wrote: »

New concept idea: Class Specialization

I had a somewhat better idea for that designation:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/492733/class-specialization-idea/p1

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I've been thinking about this for a while... what if we could expand our class by picking a skill line from another class?

That would be more like... dual-classing. Which I also had an idea about before:

TheShadowScout wrote: »

...like an idea of mine:
Dual Classing
What if there was a way to expand ones characters class skills by learning a different class on top of the original one, but with some limits? Like... you only get -one- skill line from another class, and you don't get to pick either, but have it determined by the classes involved? With one skill line for each class that is main-class-specific and cannot be shared as dual-classing?

The whole thing could be dependent on finding well hidden "master trainers" (possibly even appearing in different locations at different times, a bit like the vampire/werewolf infection spawns – think "wandering sage you have to track down" shtick that’s a classic in many stories...), and then completing a special "Initiation" quest before unlocking the new skill line and changing your basic class to a new "Dual Class", with a new class name to show off, new class symbol, etc. Naturally there would be one master trainer for each class, and what combination a character would get was determined which master trainer they approach for the quest, and their original class – there could also be a way to "reset" this, much like skill morphs or vampirism/lycantropy... (although at this point, I’d expect them to make that a crown store service)

I imagine something like:
• Dragonknight & Grave Lord (Necromancer) = Dragon Priest
• Dragonknight & Siphoning (Nightblade) = Berserker
• Dragonknight & Storm Calling (Sorceror) = Spellsword
• Dragonknight & Dawn's Wrath (Templar) = Pyromancer
• Dragonknight & Winters Embrace (Warden) = Guardian

• Nightblade & Earthen Heart (Dragonknight) = Scout
• Nightblade & Living Death (Necromancer) = Assassin
• Nightblade & Dark Magic (Sorceror) = Agent
• Nightblade & Restoring Light (Templar) = Rogue
• Nightblade & Animal Companion (Warden) = Ranger

• Sorceror & Ardent Flame (Dragonknight) = Battlemage
• Sorceror & Grave Lord (Necromancer) = Warlock
• Sorceror & Shadow (Nightblade) = Illusionist
• Sorceror & Restoring Light (Templar) = Sage
• Sorceror & Winters Embrace (Warden) = Cryomancer

• Templar & Ardent Flame (Dragonknight) = Crusader
• Templar & Living Death (Necromancer) = Healer
• Templar & Shadow (Nightblade) = Inquisitor
• Templar & Dark Magic (Sorceror) = Witchhunter
• Templar & Animal Companion (Warden) = Pilgrim

• Warden & Earthen Heart (Dragonknight) = Barbarian
• Warden & Grave Lord (Necromancer) = Gravesinger
• Warden & Siphoning (Nightblade) = Reaver
• Warden & Storm Calling (Sorceror) = Shaman
• Warden & Dawn's Wrath (Templar) = Druid

• Necromancer & Earthen Heart (Dragonknight) = Undertaker
• Necromancer & Siphoning (Nightblade) = Bloodmage
• Necromancer & Dark Magic (Sorceror) = Occultist
• Necromancer & Dawn's Wrath (Templar) = Spiritualist
• Necromancer & Winters Embrace (Warden) = Cultist

(and yes, I keep coming back to as many of the old class names from earlier elder scrolls games as i can... )