What about having other classes as learnable skill lines?

Saelent · September 2019

Has this been discussed before?
Probably.
Anyway, what if other class skills could be a learned as separate skill lines?
Start as one class and learn the others class skills like you do guild skill lines.

Now of course there would be builds that are perfect...but there are already builds that are perfect now and they get nerfed.
Wouldn’t this stop certain classes from being ‘nerfed to oblivion’?

It would still have the amount of time for grinding (especially if they levelled really slowly) so play time wouldn’t be less.

Discussion, opinions?
By the way, not the one word ‘no’ posts please, I selected ‘new discussion’ for a discussion thread.

craybest · September 2019

I'd love anything that creates more variety in builds, that being said there wold be probably a few skill combos that everyone would use, or that together are too powerful. but i like the idea.

gatekeeper13 · September 2019

Totally agree. Want to get rid of my 810 Templar tank for a DK, but dont have the time to level up another character.

But ZOS will never implement sth like that. Its not profitable for the company. That's why they dont have class change tokens. ;-)

Saelent · September 2019

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Totally agree.

But ZOS will never implement sth like that. Its not profitable for the company. That's why they dont have class change tokens. ;-)

Class change tokens are one big charge and I doubt their statistics show a lot of people buy things with a big charge.
In the case of this and the slow levelling skill lines, people would be able to buy the cheaper crown experience scrolls. It could still be profitable.

VaranisArano · September 2019

Yes, its been discussed before. Raise that dead horse for another beating.

No, it wouldn't create more variety as the meta will always gravitate towards the skills that are most effective. So you'd have even less variety, since class effectively wouldn't matter.

This would homogenize ESO more than it already is. Which is fine, I suppose, if that's what you like in a game. For any player who wants stronger class identity, this is a nightmare.

TheShadowScout · September 2019

Saelent wrote: »

Anyway, what if other class skills could be a learned as separate skill lines?
Start as one class and learn the others class skills like you do guild skill lines.

The problem with that is that it would end up with everyone and their granny running a very small selection of "super-effective" builds if there are no limitations on skill line selection... so it would actually distract from class diversity and identity (much like many other such "lets give all builds the same options" ideas).

IF anything, then it could be done in a limited way, like... letting people lean only -one- cross-class skill line...
...like an idea of mine:
Dual Classing

What if there was a way to expand ones characters class skills by learning a different class on top of the original one, but with some limits? Like... you only get -one- skill line from another class, and you don't get to pick either, but have it determined by the classes involved? With one skill line for each class that is main-class-specific and cannot be shared as dual-classing?

The whole thing could be dependent on finding well hidden "master trainers" (possibly even appearing in different locations at different times, a bit like the vampire/werewolf infection spawns – think "wandering sage you have to track down" shtick that’s a classic in many stories...), and then completing a special "Initiation" quest before unlocking the new skill line and changing your basic class to a new "Dual Class", with a new class name to show off, new class symbol, etc. Naturally there would be one master trainer for each class, and what combination a character would get was determined which master trainer they approach for the quest, and their original class – there could also be a way to "reset" this, much like skill morphs or vampirism/lycantropy... (although at this point, I’d expect them to make that a crown store service)

I imagine something like:
• Dragonknight & Grave Lord (Necromancer) = Dragon Priest
• Dragonknight & Siphoning (Nightblade) = Berserker
• Dragonknight & Storm Calling (Sorceror) = Spellsword
• Dragonknight & Dawn's Wrath (Templar) = Pyromancer
• Dragonknight & Winters Embrace (Warden) = Guardian

• Nightblade & Earthen Heart (Dragonknight) = Scout
• Nightblade & Living Death (Necromancer) = Assassin
• Nightblade & Dark Magic (Sorceror) = Agent
• Nightblade & Restoring Light (Templar) = Rogue
• Nightblade & Animal Companion (Warden) = Ranger

• Sorceror & Ardent Flame (Dragonknight) = Battlemage
• Sorceror & Grave Lord (Necromancer) = Warlock
• Sorceror & Shadow (Nightblade) = Illusionist
• Sorceror & Restoring Light (Templar) = Sage
• Sorceror & Winters Embrace (Warden) = Cryomancer

• Templar & Ardent Flame (Dragonknight) = Crusader
• Templar & Living Death (Necromancer) = Healer
• Templar & Shadow (Nightblade) = Inquisitor
• Templar & Dark Magic (Sorceror) = Witchhunter
• Templar & Animal Companion (Warden) = Pilgrim

• Warden & Earthen Heart (Dragonknight) = Barbarian
• Warden & Grave Lord (Necromancer) = Gravesinger
• Warden & Siphoning (Nightblade) = Reaver
• Warden & Storm Calling (Sorceror) = Shaman
• Warden & Dawn's Wrath (Templar) = Druid

• Necromancer & Earthen Heart (Dragonknight) = Undertaker
• Necromancer & Siphoning (Nightblade) = Bloodmage
• Necromancer & Dark Magic (Sorceror) = Occultist
• Necromancer & Dawn's Wrath (Templar) = Spiritualist
• Necromancer & Winters Embrace (Warden) = Cultist

(and yes, I keep coming back to as many of the old class names from earlier elder scrolls games as i can... )

redspecter23 · September 2019

A sort of multi classing could work if it was limited and came with drawbacks. Say you have to give up an entire class skill line for one activated ability of another class. All your Earthen Heart actives and passives gone but you get Cloak... with no passives to go along with it. Maybe you also choose to give up Ardent Flame completely for Breath of Life. You'd have a full Draconic Power skill line and 2 other skills to go with it. If nothing else, it could help highlight skill lines that are so weak that you'd toss them away in a heartbeat for a single skill that might be very good for your build.

The problem I see is that you get to fill in gaps in your character that were probably never meant to be filled in. Class identity and all that. I think they are trying to move in a direction that will produce more class identity, but outside of a few outliers (like cloak and breath of life) most of the classes can do the same things the others can, sometimes in a more limited way. We're not at that point yet where class identity is something you can spot easily.

Facefister · September 2019

No content, no class diversity and aggressive monetization catapulted ESO back to obscurity.

Bobby_V_Rockit · September 2019

There will always be a BiS, the difference is how long it takes player to achieve it.

TelvanniWizard · September 2019

I'd take resurrection ulti for my templar healer!

Zardayne · September 2019

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Saelent wrote: »

Anyway, what if other class skills could be a learned as separate skill lines?
Start as one class and learn the others class skills like you do guild skill lines.

The problem with that is that it would end up with everyone and their granny running a very small selection of "super-effective" builds if there are no limitations on skill line selection... so it would actually distract from class diversity and identity (much like many other such "lets give all builds the same options" ideas).

IF anything, then it could be done in a limited way, like... letting people lean only -one- cross-class skill line...
...like an idea of mine:
Dual Classing
What if there was a way to expand ones characters class skills by learning a different class on top of the original one, but with some limits? Like... you only get -one- skill line from another class, and you don't get to pick either, but have it determined by the classes involved? With one skill line for each class that is main-class-specific and cannot be shared as dual-classing?

The whole thing could be dependent on finding well hidden "master trainers" (possibly even appearing in different locations at different times, a bit like the vampire/werewolf infection spawns – think "wandering sage you have to track down" shtick that’s a classic in many stories...), and then completing a special "Initiation" quest before unlocking the new skill line and changing your basic class to a new "Dual Class", with a new class name to show off, new class symbol, etc. Naturally there would be one master trainer for each class, and what combination a character would get was determined which master trainer they approach for the quest, and their original class – there could also be a way to "reset" this, much like skill morphs or vampirism/lycantropy... (although at this point, I’d expect them to make that a crown store service)

I imagine something like:
• Dragonknight & Grave Lord (Necromancer) = Dragon Priest
• Dragonknight & Siphoning (Nightblade) = Berserker
• Dragonknight & Storm Calling (Sorceror) = Spellsword
• Dragonknight & Dawn's Wrath (Templar) = Pyromancer
• Dragonknight & Winters Embrace (Warden) = Guardian

• Nightblade & Earthen Heart (Dragonknight) = Scout
• Nightblade & Living Death (Necromancer) = Assassin
• Nightblade & Dark Magic (Sorceror) = Agent
• Nightblade & Restoring Light (Templar) = Rogue
• Nightblade & Animal Companion (Warden) = Ranger

• Sorceror & Ardent Flame (Dragonknight) = Battlemage
• Sorceror & Grave Lord (Necromancer) = Warlock
• Sorceror & Shadow (Nightblade) = Illusionist
• Sorceror & Restoring Light (Templar) = Sage
• Sorceror & Winters Embrace (Warden) = Cryomancer

• Templar & Ardent Flame (Dragonknight) = Crusader
• Templar & Living Death (Necromancer) = Healer
• Templar & Shadow (Nightblade) = Inquisitor
• Templar & Dark Magic (Sorceror) = Witchhunter
• Templar & Animal Companion (Warden) = Pilgrim

• Warden & Earthen Heart (Dragonknight) = Barbarian
• Warden & Grave Lord (Necromancer) = Gravesinger
• Warden & Siphoning (Nightblade) = Reaver
• Warden & Storm Calling (Sorceror) = Shaman
• Warden & Dawn's Wrath (Templar) = Druid

• Necromancer & Earthen Heart (Dragonknight) = Undertaker
• Necromancer & Siphoning (Nightblade) = Bloodmage
• Necromancer & Dark Magic (Sorceror) = Occultist
• Necromancer & Dawn's Wrath (Templar) = Spiritualist
• Necromancer & Winters Embrace (Warden) = Cultist

(and yes, I keep coming back to as many of the old class names from earlier elder scrolls games as i can... )

I think opening up one cross class skill line would be great. For my warden, which I play as a druid, having storm calling would be awesome.