Dungeon finder desperately needs requirements for vet dungeons
daedalusAI
✭✭✭✭✭
I want to use the dungeon finder to get groups, but having started doing pledges a few days ago I've already seen the abyss in terms of player performance: fake tank, fake heal, low to high CP who shouldn't be near vet content for for at least a couple of months, but can queue for them anyway etc.
How can it be that people who barely got their toes wet in terms of understanding ESO's combat are allowed to queue for the hardest content right away?
Just now I had a CP 260 templar only spamming Jabs, or a 400ish CP DK hitting Reverse Slice on full HP enemies as his means of AoE - and my patience is getting really thin after just a few days.
As the item level caps at CP 160 it's not a suitable metric to go by, and the amount of CP someone accumulated also doesn't tell anything.
Having the normal dungeon being done as the requirement for the vet version could be a metric, but difficulty does spike quite a lot between normal and vet.
How can it be that people who barely got their toes wet in terms of understanding ESO's combat are allowed to queue for the hardest content right away?
Just now I had a CP 260 templar only spamming Jabs, or a 400ish CP DK hitting Reverse Slice on full HP enemies as his means of AoE - and my patience is getting really thin after just a few days.
As the item level caps at CP 160 it's not a suitable metric to go by, and the amount of CP someone accumulated also doesn't tell anything.
Having the normal dungeon being done as the requirement for the vet version could be a metric, but difficulty does spike quite a lot between normal and vet.
8
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Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.7 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
Define handle.
You have limited options:- You kick the abysmal players right away and hope RNG is on your side to get a suitable replacement
- You suffer through the dungeon with abysmal players, taking twice the time or more
- You yourself leave the group
- You never touch the dungeon finder again
11 -
pelle412✭✭✭✭✭It is primarily because ESO does not teach players how to perform well in a trinity role based group. You are thrown into a dungeon with 3 other people and then what? Some players have an interest in performing well so they take the initiative to learn and others do not. You see low CP players absolutely shred dungeons, and high CP players stand and hard cast frags non-stop believing they are doing their job, but in reality making it a miserable experience for 3 others. There's no simple fix to this besides introducing more sophisticated tutorials for role based play.
The fake tanks will keep doing what they do as long as they can, there's no fix for that.
5 -
xpixelatedtkox✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
This.
How to avoid abysmal players:- Form your own group.
Simple as that.PC - NA
Guild: Vanquish19 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xpixelatedtkox wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
This.
How to avoid abysmal players:- Form your own group.
Simple as that.
This.
Harder content is not designed for average players. End of story.11 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xpixelatedtkox wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
This.
How to avoid abysmal players:- Form your own group.
Simple as that.
^Exactly This.^5 -
Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
Define handle.
You have limited options:- You kick the abysmal players right away and hope RNG is on your side to get a suitable replacement
- You suffer through the dungeon with abysmal players, taking twice the time or more
- You yourself leave the group
- You never touch the dungeon finder again
I don't think there is an easy solution, but you did outline a few options.
On top of that, you could also communicate to that person that their actions are hurting the group. I'm sure some people are going to reply and say "that's useless to do as that person probably doesn't even care" but that's an easy cop-out to do nothing and let status quo be the way it is. There is a chance that the person doesn't know they are making a mistake. When I first started tanking, I was using a 2h and didn't really taunt a lot. I got called out and someone pointed me to some references on how I could properly tank. I wasn't salty, I took the criticism and learned from it. So I'd say there is a chance you could help other players without taking the route of kicking them.0 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭xpixelatedtkox wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
This.
How to avoid abysmal players:- Form your own group.
Simple as that.
That indeed is one option, but it doesn't even attempt to solve the underlying issues:- People don't have to learn anything about how the combat works while during overland content
- People can queue for the hardest dungeon content right away as there are 0 requirements other than being lvl 50
5 -
Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭daedalusAI wrote: »xpixelatedtkox wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
This.
How to avoid abysmal players:- Form your own group.
Simple as that.
That indeed is one option, but it doesn't even attempt to solve the underlying issues:- People don't have to learn anything about how the combat works while during overland content
- People can queue for the hardest dungeon content right away as there are 0 requirements other than being lvl 50
This is not necessarily true. Vet DLC dungeons have a CP 300 requirement, so really you'll only get stuck with low CP characters in the base game Vet dungeons. I won't try to be too "elitist" but let's be honest, the base game vet dungeons feel like normal dungeons with how much DPS we can put out right now (might change next patch though).3 -
xpixelatedtkox✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »
I don't think there is an easy solution, but you did outline a few options.
On top of that, you could also communicate to that person that their actions are hurting the group. I'm sure some people are going to reply and say "that's useless to do as that person probably doesn't even care" but that's an easy cop-out to do nothing and let status quo be the way it is. There is a chance that the person doesn't know they are making a mistake. When I first started tanking, I was using a 2h and didn't really taunt a lot. I got called out and someone pointed me to some references on how I could properly tank. I wasn't salty, I took the criticism and learned from it. So I'd say there is a chance you could help other players without taking the route of kicking them.
I admit it would be nice if more people were willing to do this. Knowing how tough it can be out there, I usually run DLCs with guildies.
Admittedly, this could still result in it taking twice the amount of time, but you've better prepared that person for future dungeons and future groups, which isn't a bad thing.
PC - NA
Guild: Vanquish0 -
IndianaJames7✭✭✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
Define handle.
You have limited options:- You kick the abysmal players right away and hope RNG is on your side to get a suitable replacement
- You suffer through the dungeon with abysmal players, taking twice the time or more
- You yourself leave the group
- You never touch the dungeon finder again
Those all seem like valid options to me. There doesn’t seem to be any effective way to filter players that others may subjectively feel are not qualified for the dungeon.
Consider this for a moment, ‘vet dungeons’ are in fact not the hardest content in the game as you have suggested. I’m going to go out on a limb and assume you were not queued for vhm frostvault or other more difficult dlc? At this point decent players can carry pretty much any vet dungeon singlehandedly if necessary. Given that you have seen fake tanks and fake healers, you are a dps right? Maybe other players wouldn’t want you in their group if you aren’t able to burn stuff down quick enough that tanking or healing is even an issue.
Where people choose to draw the line is subjective, and my guess is most players would draw that line just slightly below their own skill level. This is why players don’t get to decide what qualifies others to queue for dungeons.
If you want a consistent group form your own, if you gunna pug it, you are gunna get pugs.
Edited by IndianaJames7 on October 11, 2019 7:11PM8 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The GF has lvl requirements for normal dungeons and CP requirements for vet dungeons. At that the more challenging dungeons have higher requirements as they should. That is essentially the only requirement Zos can instill. One cannot appropriately measure player skill as that is truly across the board in ESO as we see plenty of CP capped players who are challenged with one mud crab.
For OP I suggest forming your own group. For the smoothest runs I find it best to form the group from my raiding guilds as we can easily tackle any vet dungeon. I still enjoy running with long time gaming friends that are in a more social guild and we do well at that. To expect the GF to form perfect groups is pretty much a pipe dream in any MMORPG.
Edit: TLDR So the underlying issue of requirements for the dungeons has been set. For higher requirements form your own group.Edited by idk on October 11, 2019 7:08PM1 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just don't touch the groupfinder. Let PUGs suffer with each other and form decent groups yourself. You can't fix them.
Bonus points for every "wHy ARe tHErE nO TAnkS in gROuP fInDEr?!" post you encounter. The answer is always the same. The groupfinder is so bad that no one remotely good bothers with it.3 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »xpixelatedtkox wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
This.
How to avoid abysmal players:- Form your own group.
Simple as that.
That indeed is one option, but it doesn't even attempt to solve the underlying issues:- People don't have to learn anything about how the combat works while during overland content
- People can queue for the hardest dungeon content right away as there are 0 requirements other than being lvl 50
This is not necessarily true. Vet DLC dungeons have a CP 300 requirement, so really you'll only get stuck with low CP characters in the base game Vet dungeons. I won't try to be too "elitist" but let's be honest, the base game vet dungeons feel like normal dungeons with how much DPS we can put out right now (might change next patch though).
I believe a few of the 2 dungeons have a CP160 requirement as well. While queueing for a pledge recently with a CP150 guildie we noticed that we were locked out of CoA2 and CoH2.
Agree, base game vet dungeons aren't the hardest or even overly difficult. The jump in difficulty between them and vet DLCs is staggering. Even then, dungeons (DLC included) aren't the hardest content.0 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭IndianaJames7 wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
Define handle.
You have limited options:- You kick the abysmal players right away and hope RNG is on your side to get a suitable replacement
- You suffer through the dungeon with abysmal players, taking twice the time or more
- You yourself leave the group
- You never touch the dungeon finder again
Those all seem like valid options to me. There doesn’t seem to be any effective way to filter players that others may subjectively feel are not qualified for the dungeon.
Consider this for a moment, ‘vet dungeons’ are in fact not the hardest content in the game as you have suggested. I’m going to go out on a limb and assume you were not queued for vhm frostvault or other more difficult dlc? At this point decent players can carry pretty much any vet dungeon singlehandedly if necessary. Given that you have seen fake tanks and fake healers, you are a dps right? Maybe other players wouldn’t want you in their group if you aren’t able to burn stuff down quick enough that tanking or healing is even an issue.
Where people choose to draw the line is subjective, and my guess is most players would draw that line just slightly below their own skill level. This is why players don’t get to decide what qualifies others to queue for dungeons.
If you want a consistent group form your own, if you gunna pug it, you are gunna get pugs.
Enough said!2 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
Define handle.
You have limited options:- You kick the abysmal players right away and hope RNG is on your side to get a suitable replacement
- You suffer through the dungeon with abysmal players, taking twice the time or more
- You yourself leave the group
- You never touch the dungeon finder again
I don't think there is an easy solution, but you did outline a few options.
On top of that, you could also communicate to that person that their actions are hurting the group. I'm sure some people are going to reply and say "that's useless to do as that person probably doesn't even care" but that's an easy cop-out to do nothing and let status quo be the way it is. There is a chance that the person doesn't know they are making a mistake. When I first started tanking, I was using a 2h and didn't really taunt a lot. I got called out and someone pointed me to some references on how I could properly tank. I wasn't salty, I took the criticism and learned from it. So I'd say there is a chance you could help other players without taking the route of kicking them.
People don't know what they're doing and they also don't care if you tell them, if they even understand English or can be bothered to read chat - they just want a convenient carry.
You have to be in the tiniest minority possible as you did listen to criticism as a means to improve.
How do you help someone who deliberately queued into the hard parts of the dungeon finder, but clearly lacks even the most basic of understanding?3 -
vibeborn✭✭✭✭✭I'd too say forming own group is the best choice. It's really a hit-or-miss whether you end in a group with "good" players or not, but I also think some may queue for vet because they feel they've "conquered" the normal ones, but then the vet ones may be too hard and they might mess up (doesn't excuse fake tanks imo, if you're able to do vet dungeons you should have learned how to taunt)
I am lucky to have a brother who's +1000 who can tank and heal any vet dungeon/trial plus he can pull a lot of DPS as a DD, and he's trying to teach me how to become better, but not everyone is that lucky (or reads up on things like I did when I first started tanking) so they might make a lot of mistakes that makes the other players want to kick them
A system that partners players to their level/CP could also be an option but I've also seen low level players perform well and high CP players performing less well, so I don't know if that's actually doable.
Also if someone's not quite performing their role, I see nothing wrong with friendly asking them to step up their game, as long as it is done in a civilized manner, and if people refuse, kick them.0 -
xpixelatedtkox✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »
People don't know what they're doing and they also don't care if you tell them, if they even understand English or can be bothered to read chat - they just want a convenient carry.
You have to be in the tiniest minority possible as you did listen to criticism as a means to improve.
How do you help someone who deliberately queued into the hard parts of the dungeon finder, but clearly lacks even the most basic of understanding?
If they refuse to listen, then you can kick, but you should at least try. If you're going to continue to argue the point, I return to my original statement. Form your own group.PC - NA
Guild: Vanquish2 -
xpixelatedtkox✭✭✭I don't know why it posted my response as part of the quote....
If they refuse to listen, then you can kick, but you should at least try. If you're going to continue to argue the point, I return to my original statement. Form your own group.PC - NA
Guild: Vanquish2 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭IndianaJames7 wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
Define handle.
You have limited options:- You kick the abysmal players right away and hope RNG is on your side to get a suitable replacement
- You suffer through the dungeon with abysmal players, taking twice the time or more
- You yourself leave the group
- You never touch the dungeon finder again
Those all seem like valid options to me. There doesn’t seem to be any effective way to filter players that others may subjectively feel are not qualified for the dungeon.
Consider this for a moment, ‘vet dungeons’ are in fact not the hardest content in the game as you have suggested. I’m going to go out on a limb and assume you were not queued for vhm frostvault or other more difficult dlc? At this point decent players can carry pretty much any vet dungeon singlehandedly if necessary. Given that you have seen fake tanks and fake healers, you are a dps right? Maybe other players wouldn’t want you in their group if you aren’t able to burn stuff down quick enough that tanking or healing is even an issue.
Where people choose to draw the line is subjective, and my guess is most players would draw that line just slightly below their own skill level. This is why players don’t get to decide what qualifies others to queue for dungeons.
If you want a consistent group form your own, if you gunna pug it, you are gunna get pugs.
I rotate my alts which fulfill every role of the trinity, so I see them all.
Fair enough if other people don't want me to play DPS, because I know that's my weakest role, but the overwhelming majority of players can't even come to such a basic conclusion.
The line will get subjective the higher the skill level rises, but the basics aren't up for discussion e.g. spamming executes on a full HP target, no AoE, not moving out of bad, being DPS but queuing as tank/heal, deliberately queuing vet but then not having basics etc.1 -
Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
Define handle.
You have limited options:- You kick the abysmal players right away and hope RNG is on your side to get a suitable replacement
- You suffer through the dungeon with abysmal players, taking twice the time or more
- You yourself leave the group
- You never touch the dungeon finder again
I don't think there is an easy solution, but you did outline a few options.
On top of that, you could also communicate to that person that their actions are hurting the group. I'm sure some people are going to reply and say "that's useless to do as that person probably doesn't even care" but that's an easy cop-out to do nothing and let status quo be the way it is. There is a chance that the person doesn't know they are making a mistake. When I first started tanking, I was using a 2h and didn't really taunt a lot. I got called out and someone pointed me to some references on how I could properly tank. I wasn't salty, I took the criticism and learned from it. So I'd say there is a chance you could help other players without taking the route of kicking them.
People don't know what they're doing and they also don't care if you tell them, if they even understand English or can be bothered to read chat - they just want a convenient carry.
You have to be in the tiniest minority possible as you did listen to criticism as a means to improve.
How do you help someone who deliberately queued into the hard parts of the dungeon finder, but clearly lacks even the most basic of understanding?
How did you come to that conclusion? Honestly, it seems like you just want an easy solution. There is not one. Either take some time and energy to help other people out, or just deal with how the DF currently works.4 -
Veinblood1965✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There could be a taunt count for fake tanks. If you don't taunt a certain number of times you get booted for an hour with pop up windows that tell you to get with it or get out. Same with low DPS.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
Define handle.
You have limited options:- You kick the abysmal players right away and hope RNG is on your side to get a suitable replacement
- You suffer through the dungeon with abysmal players, taking twice the time or more
- You yourself leave the group
- You never touch the dungeon finder again
I don't think there is an easy solution, but you did outline a few options.
On top of that, you could also communicate to that person that their actions are hurting the group. I'm sure some people are going to reply and say "that's useless to do as that person probably doesn't even care" but that's an easy cop-out to do nothing and let status quo be the way it is. There is a chance that the person doesn't know they are making a mistake. When I first started tanking, I was using a 2h and didn't really taunt a lot. I got called out and someone pointed me to some references on how I could properly tank. I wasn't salty, I took the criticism and learned from it. So I'd say there is a chance you could help other players without taking the route of kicking them.
People don't know what they're doing and they also don't care if you tell them, if they even understand English or can be bothered to read chat - they just want a convenient carry.
You have to be in the tiniest minority possible as you did listen to criticism as a means to improve.
How do you help someone who deliberately queued into the hard parts of the dungeon finder, but clearly lacks even the most basic of understanding?
How did you come to that conclusion? Honestly, it seems like you just want an easy solution. There is not one. Either take some time and energy to help other people out, or just deal with how the DF currently works.
This. Also, with how they are coming off here I wonder how abrasive they came off in the dungeon and how well they actually explained things when they comment like this. There are two sides to every story.
Regardless, with this attitude the best suggestion is form your own group.4 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
Define handle.
You have limited options:- You kick the abysmal players right away and hope RNG is on your side to get a suitable replacement
- You suffer through the dungeon with abysmal players, taking twice the time or more
- You yourself leave the group
- You never touch the dungeon finder again
I don't think there is an easy solution, but you did outline a few options.
On top of that, you could also communicate to that person that their actions are hurting the group. I'm sure some people are going to reply and say "that's useless to do as that person probably doesn't even care" but that's an easy cop-out to do nothing and let status quo be the way it is. There is a chance that the person doesn't know they are making a mistake. When I first started tanking, I was using a 2h and didn't really taunt a lot. I got called out and someone pointed me to some references on how I could properly tank. I wasn't salty, I took the criticism and learned from it. So I'd say there is a chance you could help other players without taking the route of kicking them.
People don't know what they're doing and they also don't care if you tell them, if they even understand English or can be bothered to read chat - they just want a convenient carry.
You have to be in the tiniest minority possible as you did listen to criticism as a means to improve.
How do you help someone who deliberately queued into the hard parts of the dungeon finder, but clearly lacks even the most basic of understanding?
How did you come to that conclusion? Honestly, it seems like you just want an easy solution. There is not one. Either take some time and energy to help other people out, or just deal with how the DF currently works.
Doing vet HM pledges/farming monster helms: just now I needed 3 tries to get a half-decent group for vet Banished Cells II as the first 2 group both had DPS that would've been hard-pressed to hit 15k dps combined as HP of enemy packs barely moved - and one of them was the Reverse Slice guy, spamming it on full HP enemies as his AoE tool of choice.
I questioned their plays, they told me they don't care and left - and thus the party was disbanded.
The DPS of the 2nd group were just as bad and were only speaking Russian, and on the 3rd try I had a 250+ CP pet sorc running around with 35k HP.
And that's just a small glimpse of what I see every day when doing vet dungeons.
I do take the time and energy to try to help, but if nothing is returned but silence or a "I don't care attitude" I won't waste my time and energy and proceed to kick them or leave myself.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
Define handle.
You have limited options:- You kick the abysmal players right away and hope RNG is on your side to get a suitable replacement
- You suffer through the dungeon with abysmal players, taking twice the time or more
- You yourself leave the group
- You never touch the dungeon finder again
I don't think there is an easy solution, but you did outline a few options.
On top of that, you could also communicate to that person that their actions are hurting the group. I'm sure some people are going to reply and say "that's useless to do as that person probably doesn't even care" but that's an easy cop-out to do nothing and let status quo be the way it is. There is a chance that the person doesn't know they are making a mistake. When I first started tanking, I was using a 2h and didn't really taunt a lot. I got called out and someone pointed me to some references on how I could properly tank. I wasn't salty, I took the criticism and learned from it. So I'd say there is a chance you could help other players without taking the route of kicking them.
People don't know what they're doing and they also don't care if you tell them, if they even understand English or can be bothered to read chat - they just want a convenient carry.
You have to be in the tiniest minority possible as you did listen to criticism as a means to improve.
How do you help someone who deliberately queued into the hard parts of the dungeon finder, but clearly lacks even the most basic of understanding?
How did you come to that conclusion? Honestly, it seems like you just want an easy solution. There is not one. Either take some time and energy to help other people out, or just deal with how the DF currently works.
Doing vet HM pledges/farming monster helms: just now I needed 3 tries to get a half-decent group for vet Banished Cells II as the first 2 group both had DPS that would've been hard-pressed to hit 15k dps combined as HP of enemy packs barely moved - and one of them was the Reverse Slice guy, spamming it on full HP enemies as his AoE tool of choice.
I questioned their plays, they told me they don't care and left - and thus the party was disbanded.
The DPS of the 2nd group were just as bad and were only speaking Russian, and on the 3rd try I had a 250+ CP pet sorc running around with 35k HP.
And that's just a small glimpse of what I see every day when doing vet dungeons.
I do take the time and energy to try to help, but if nothing is returned but silence or a "I don't care attitude" I won't waste my time and energy and proceed to kick them or leave myself.
You went through BC II with two different random GF groups that failed and did not think it would be wise and time saving to form your own group for the third attempt?
Regardless, the minimum requirements for each dungeon have already been set. So your request is not needed. Pretty much most decent players either form their own group or get into one someone is forming, mostly from guilds. I suggest you do the same as it seems like a wise path to follow.4 -
xpixelatedtkox✭✭✭IndianaJames7 wrote: »
If you want a consistent group form your own, if you gunna pug it, you are gunna get pugs.
Welcome to the pug life.
PC - NA
Guild: Vanquish1 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
Define handle.
You have limited options:- You kick the abysmal players right away and hope RNG is on your side to get a suitable replacement
- You suffer through the dungeon with abysmal players, taking twice the time or more
- You yourself leave the group
- You never touch the dungeon finder again
I don't think there is an easy solution, but you did outline a few options.
On top of that, you could also communicate to that person that their actions are hurting the group. I'm sure some people are going to reply and say "that's useless to do as that person probably doesn't even care" but that's an easy cop-out to do nothing and let status quo be the way it is. There is a chance that the person doesn't know they are making a mistake. When I first started tanking, I was using a 2h and didn't really taunt a lot. I got called out and someone pointed me to some references on how I could properly tank. I wasn't salty, I took the criticism and learned from it. So I'd say there is a chance you could help other players without taking the route of kicking them.
People don't know what they're doing and they also don't care if you tell them, if they even understand English or can be bothered to read chat - they just want a convenient carry.
You have to be in the tiniest minority possible as you did listen to criticism as a means to improve.
How do you help someone who deliberately queued into the hard parts of the dungeon finder, but clearly lacks even the most basic of understanding?
How did you come to that conclusion? Honestly, it seems like you just want an easy solution. There is not one. Either take some time and energy to help other people out, or just deal with how the DF currently works.
This. Also, with how they are coming off here I wonder how abrasive they came off in the dungeon and how well they actually explained things when they comment like this. There are two sides to every story.
Regardless, with this attitude the best suggestion is form your own group.
Now you have my curiosity: what's the story of a Reverse Slice spamming person as his AoE tool of choice who tells you he doesn't care when you point out the low damage, considering he deliberately queued for vet?2 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
Define handle.
You have limited options:- You kick the abysmal players right away and hope RNG is on your side to get a suitable replacement
- You suffer through the dungeon with abysmal players, taking twice the time or more
- You yourself leave the group
- You never touch the dungeon finder again
I don't think there is an easy solution, but you did outline a few options.
On top of that, you could also communicate to that person that their actions are hurting the group. I'm sure some people are going to reply and say "that's useless to do as that person probably doesn't even care" but that's an easy cop-out to do nothing and let status quo be the way it is. There is a chance that the person doesn't know they are making a mistake. When I first started tanking, I was using a 2h and didn't really taunt a lot. I got called out and someone pointed me to some references on how I could properly tank. I wasn't salty, I took the criticism and learned from it. So I'd say there is a chance you could help other players without taking the route of kicking them.
People don't know what they're doing and they also don't care if you tell them, if they even understand English or can be bothered to read chat - they just want a convenient carry.
You have to be in the tiniest minority possible as you did listen to criticism as a means to improve.
How do you help someone who deliberately queued into the hard parts of the dungeon finder, but clearly lacks even the most basic of understanding?
How did you come to that conclusion? Honestly, it seems like you just want an easy solution. There is not one. Either take some time and energy to help other people out, or just deal with how the DF currently works.
Doing vet HM pledges/farming monster helms: just now I needed 3 tries to get a half-decent group for vet Banished Cells II as the first 2 group both had DPS that would've been hard-pressed to hit 15k dps combined as HP of enemy packs barely moved - and one of them was the Reverse Slice guy, spamming it on full HP enemies as his AoE tool of choice.
I questioned their plays, they told me they don't care and left - and thus the party was disbanded.
The DPS of the 2nd group were just as bad and were only speaking Russian, and on the 3rd try I had a 250+ CP pet sorc running around with 35k HP.
And that's just a small glimpse of what I see every day when doing vet dungeons.
I do take the time and energy to try to help, but if nothing is returned but silence or a "I don't care attitude" I won't waste my time and energy and proceed to kick them or leave myself.
You went through BC II with two different random GF groups that failed and did not think it would be wise and time saving to form your own group for the third attempt?
Regardless, the minimum requirements for each dungeon have already been set. So your request is not needed. Pretty much most decent players either form their own group or get into one someone is forming, mostly from guilds. I suggest you do the same as it seems like a wise path to follow.
Call if a faint hope that somewhere under the mountain of abysmal and clueless players there have to be some decent ones who actually want to improve their plays and contribute to a group.
You're content with the minimum requirements for dungeons and that my request isn't needed, but then tell me that decent players form their own group outside of the dungeon finder, therefore implying that the normal dungeon finder population isn't decent? How does that work?
1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
Define handle.
You have limited options:- You kick the abysmal players right away and hope RNG is on your side to get a suitable replacement
- You suffer through the dungeon with abysmal players, taking twice the time or more
- You yourself leave the group
- You never touch the dungeon finder again
I don't think there is an easy solution, but you did outline a few options.
On top of that, you could also communicate to that person that their actions are hurting the group. I'm sure some people are going to reply and say "that's useless to do as that person probably doesn't even care" but that's an easy cop-out to do nothing and let status quo be the way it is. There is a chance that the person doesn't know they are making a mistake. When I first started tanking, I was using a 2h and didn't really taunt a lot. I got called out and someone pointed me to some references on how I could properly tank. I wasn't salty, I took the criticism and learned from it. So I'd say there is a chance you could help other players without taking the route of kicking them.
People don't know what they're doing and they also don't care if you tell them, if they even understand English or can be bothered to read chat - they just want a convenient carry.
You have to be in the tiniest minority possible as you did listen to criticism as a means to improve.
How do you help someone who deliberately queued into the hard parts of the dungeon finder, but clearly lacks even the most basic of understanding?
How did you come to that conclusion? Honestly, it seems like you just want an easy solution. There is not one. Either take some time and energy to help other people out, or just deal with how the DF currently works.
This. Also, with how they are coming off here I wonder how abrasive they came off in the dungeon and how well they actually explained things when they comment like this. There are two sides to every story.
Regardless, with this attitude the best suggestion is form your own group.
Now you have my curiosity: what's the story of a Reverse Slice spamming person as his AoE tool of choice who tells you he doesn't care when you point out the low damage, considering he deliberately queued for vet?
LOL. I suppose the same person who after three failed GF attempts in BC II would think I can read minds.
You want to ensure you have a decent group form it yourself instead of expecting Zos to hold your hand in GF. We pretty much realize that people who come to the forums to complain about failed GF groups were part of that group, part of the failure, yet choose to blame the other three.2 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »You can probably pull 50 other threads (some with multiple pages of discussion) about this topic. There is no easy solution.
Either you increase queue time by restricting access to certain dungeons, or you keep things the way they are and hope the community handles it.
Define handle.
You have limited options:- You kick the abysmal players right away and hope RNG is on your side to get a suitable replacement
- You suffer through the dungeon with abysmal players, taking twice the time or more
- You yourself leave the group
- You never touch the dungeon finder again
I don't think there is an easy solution, but you did outline a few options.
On top of that, you could also communicate to that person that their actions are hurting the group. I'm sure some people are going to reply and say "that's useless to do as that person probably doesn't even care" but that's an easy cop-out to do nothing and let status quo be the way it is. There is a chance that the person doesn't know they are making a mistake. When I first started tanking, I was using a 2h and didn't really taunt a lot. I got called out and someone pointed me to some references on how I could properly tank. I wasn't salty, I took the criticism and learned from it. So I'd say there is a chance you could help other players without taking the route of kicking them.
People don't know what they're doing and they also don't care if you tell them, if they even understand English or can be bothered to read chat - they just want a convenient carry.
You have to be in the tiniest minority possible as you did listen to criticism as a means to improve.
How do you help someone who deliberately queued into the hard parts of the dungeon finder, but clearly lacks even the most basic of understanding?
How did you come to that conclusion? Honestly, it seems like you just want an easy solution. There is not one. Either take some time and energy to help other people out, or just deal with how the DF currently works.
This. Also, with how they are coming off here I wonder how abrasive they came off in the dungeon and how well they actually explained things when they comment like this. There are two sides to every story.
Regardless, with this attitude the best suggestion is form your own group.
Now you have my curiosity: what's the story of a Reverse Slice spamming person as his AoE tool of choice who tells you he doesn't care when you point out the low damage, considering he deliberately queued for vet?
LOL. I suppose the same person who after three failed GF attempts in BC II would think I can read minds.
You want to ensure you have a decent group form it yourself instead of expecting Zos to hold your hand in GF. We pretty much realize that people who come to the forums to complain about failed GF groups were part of that group, part of the failure, yet choose to blame the other three.
You claimed there are two sides to every story, I presented you the facts(hint: hard to miss something like HP of a group of enemies barely moving or spamming Reverse Slice on full HP enemies) and you respond with "LoL" - which proves that you were out to shoot the messenger.
Isn't the dungeon finder supposed to hold my hand due to requirements in place to determine the kind of player which is allowed to queue for something, you know, like ilvl requirements in FF14 or WoW for certain content using their dungeon finder?
Intriguing how people like you feel the sudden urge to use "We" when forming your opinion after being faced with criticism, but you can only talk for yourself.
To make it really simple for you to understand, as you're rather desperate at creating strawmen/grasping for straws: I was the tank. If the tank does his job, but the DPS are abysmal, it's now also the tank who's a part of the failure, and not the DPS who didn't fulfill their jobs?
Makes only perfect sense in your world.Edited by daedalusAI on October 11, 2019 8:13PM5