Negates and silence needs a "buff"
Ashanne
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Make negate and silence work against stamina too. its kinda time after so many years, for obvious balance
Also, can we tone down the guard negates in keeps PLEASE. Its absolutely ridiculous, every 8-10 seconds a negate from a guard is dropped
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The ability of stamina healing and damage to work in a Negate is pretty crucial counterplay, especially when dealing with the keep NPCs.
Take that away, and the only counterplay is "get out of the way". Which is a pretty big problem in the narrow confines of a keep, or when a guard throws one through the door and takes down siege shields while oils are pouring down overhead.
Making Negates impact stamina would be a huge buff for Sorcs in Cyrodiil, who can now shut down everyone in a group for a crucial couple seconds - and would greatly empower organized raids who,can afford to,stack negates.3 -
Ashanne✭✭✭✭wow that logic thou... so stamina who can dodge a lot of times is immune and magicka classes can and should only "get out of the way".
How is that balance for u?
if for magicka the only option is get out, it should be for stam too simple as that9 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wow that logic thou... so stamina who can dodge a lot of times is immune and magicka classes can and should only "get out of the way".
How is that balance for u?
if for magicka the only option is get out, it should be for stam too simple as that
Its not particularly well balanced for magicka vs stamina. But something for you to consider is that Cyrodiil is designed for group PVP.
Under a negate, stamina players can help their magicka teammates. That enables counterplay as a group.
Your suggestion, in contrast, is just a full group shut-down, no counterplay. As you pointed out, it would still benefit stamina who can dodge roll out much easier than magicka players.
So, seriously, your suggestion is even more imbalanced in terms of actual Cyrodiil play. Less counterplay for everyone, while conpletely buffing Sorcs vs everyone else. Its a very strong buff for any organized group who can stack negates in a choke point like the inner keeps, which is exactly what would happen.
Did you intend to make Negate into an "I-win" button against anyone in a choke point? Because that's what you did.6 -
Avrael✭✭✭✭Honestly, Negate should shut down all Class Abilitys, stamina and magicka, so everyone still can use weapon skills to do SOMETHING.
Atm magicka users are just dead in a negate and stamina users dont even get touched at all."I mustache you a question."
"Well shave it for later."3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »wow that logic thou... so stamina who can dodge a lot of times is immune and magicka classes can and should only "get out of the way".
How is that balance for u?
if for magicka the only option is get out, it should be for stam too simple as that
Did you intend to make Negate into an "I-win" button against anyone in a choke point? Because that's what you did.
While you make multiple valid points, this one sums up the idea very well.2 -
Ashanne✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »
Did you intend to make Negate into an "I-win" button against anyone in a choke point? Because that's what you did.
Currently it is a one I-win button against magicka so it should be against everyone, stamina too.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »
Did you intend to make Negate into an "I-win" button against anyone in a choke point? Because that's what you did.
Currently it is a one I-win button against magicka so it should be against everyone, stamina too.
Not if you read the part you edited out.5 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dammit people can you complain about anything else? Wait, don’t answer that. You’ve proved that yes, time and again, the answer is yes. What in the actual *** do you have against any form of challenge being in PvP? What it takes 1 dodge roll to get out? That’s no problem for any properly built mag toon. It is not an “I win” button. Unless of course you’re standing there doing nothing, which must be the case seeing as you’re in here complaining about negate. Also, if they do buff it to include sram abilities you realize it’s still going destroy your incompetent Magicka playing right? Absolutely nothing will change for you. Everyone who has always been fine with Negate will still be fine and you’ll still be dead. Also yes vigor works still at that is huge. But, if I see a negate come down it’s a roll dodge out I’m not thinking about sticking around just because vigor works because my all my defensive skills are Mag and my ult doesn’t work. The AoE is not that big.Edited by Vapirko on October 6, 2019 2:49PM4 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I agree with the sentiment OP, but IMO stamina needs a separate "disarm" debuff that is available from different sources than silence.10 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »
That logic works for things like weapon skills or barbed trap. It doesn’t really explain why Lotus Fan and Ambush would be treated differently, or how Boundless Storm is a spell but Hurricane is not. Then you have the entire Necromancer class, where every Magicka conjuration spell has an identical Stamina morph, those don’t require speaking?
I don’t have a solution in mind, but the more you think about the entire system the less it makes sense.6 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »
I don’t have a solution in mind, but the more you think about the entire system the less it makes sense.
That's actually a really concise TL;DR for this thread. Enjoy an insightful.1 -
Ashanne✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »
You can remove ur immersion from this post please. we are talking big bois stuff..u know PVP0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It’s a design feature of ESO. Some ability types are just better than others.
Stamina abilities work in negates, projectiles can be dodged or absorbed, AoEs are effected by evasion, etc...
It’s not ‘fair’ in a sense with a direct comparison of mag vs stamina attacks, but stamina are melee range which has it’s own limitation so whatever, just go with it.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
SipofMaim✭✭✭✭This would double the power of negate. They'd take it away again in some other way, probably making the sorc ult useless in the process.
I hate silences. The fact that there's no comparable misery for the stamina side is a little irritating, so I feel you there, but I think if you got what you're asking for nobody would like the price.1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Honestly super shutdowns like negate are already strong enough.
But mainly magicka has so many more aoe heals than stamina.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »
Did you intend to make Negate into an "I-win" button against anyone in a choke point? Because that's what you did.
Currently it is a one I-win button against magicka so it should be against everyone, stamina too.
So yes, you do want an "I win"- button against groups in choke points, especially the very place you complained about getting negated by guards.
Interesting.
I don't often see that level of brazen "buff sorc" and "buff ball groups" requests but you do you.I agree with the sentiment OP, but IMO stamina needs a separate "disarm" debuff that is available from different sources than silence.
A separate "Disarm" ultimate would be entirely appropriate. Groups could still stack them, but at least there's an opportunity cost there to having to slot a different ultimate or bring an extra player, as oppose to making Negate even more powerful.1 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dammit people can you complain about anything else? Wait, don’t answer that. You’ve proved that yes, time and again, the answer is yes. What in the actual *** do you have against any form of challenge being in PvP? What it takes 1 dodge roll to get out? That’s no problem for any properly built mag toon. It is not an “I win” button. Unless of course you’re standing there doing nothing, which must be the case seeing as you’re in here complaining about negate. Also, if they do buff it to include sram abilities you realize it’s still going destroy your incompetent Magicka playing right? Absolutely nothing will change for you. Everyone who has always been fine with Negate will still be fine and you’ll still be dead. Also yes vigor works still at that is huge. But, if I see a negate come down it’s a roll dodge out I’m not thinking about sticking around just because vigor works because my all my defensive skills are Mag and my ult doesn’t work. The AoE is not that big.
This is the only community I've seen where the kneejerk reaction, from both the devs and community, is "yes, gut this, please gut this so I can cut my thumbs off and continue playing in peace".
ITT: Gut identity and uniqueness because I want things to be balanced! Magicka gets ***, stamina doesn't get ***, I want magicka and stamina to get equally *** by this thing!
What's it gonna be in the next thread? Stay tuned to find out!4 -
InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd be happy if Negate would last for at least one second after moving outside it's field. Right now entire ballgroups move out of it so fast that it is useless.
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Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They should change Necromancer Goliath form ulti bash morph into a moving stamina skill Negate aura.
+ (Sorc should not have both stam and mag negate if it ever happens.)1 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Negates are very strong, but they made more sense when everyone was a hybrid. Shutting down magicka specs while stamina shrugs is very polarizing.
All of the placed aoe ultimates should be situationally strong. Harmony made Nova terrifying. Standard might need a little love but it's strong if synergized. Negate cleans up ground effects but otherwise is scary to magicka only. I'm not sure it needs a buff as much as it needs a tweak....but stamina are melee range which has it’s own limitation so whatever, just go with it.
Everyone always says this, but it's not true. MagDK is fundamentally melee, templar, necro and warden are mixed and nightblade brawler works well too. Meanwhile stam has a ranged weapon that says hi.2 -
Ashanne✭✭✭✭my post has "buff" in quotes... i dont want it buffed i want it to affect equally everyone (and also look at the negate timers on guards).
Take even incap, its an useless ult against stamina, because the enemy could not care less about the silence on it. and its incredibly good against magicka (especially less experienced players)
And the argument how stamina is melee and has limitations is kinda stupid when all classes and specs, except mag sorc, stam sniper and some mag blades, are melee specs.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Negate is already strong as it is and will still prevent stamina users from using their ultimates.InvictusApollo wrote: »I'd be happy if Negate would last for at least one second after moving outside it's field. Right now entire ballgroups move out of it so fast that it is useless.
It kinda does already, you'll notice that your magicka abilities and ultimates are grayed out for a short duration even after leaving the negate field.
And negate alone is never enough to kill a decent organized group. You need roots, snares and/or follow up damage to make negate useful.3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭my post has "buff" in quotes... i dont want it buffed i want it to affect equally everyone (and also look at the negate timers on guards).
Take even incap, its an useless ult against stamina, because the enemy could not care less about the silence on it. and its incredibly good against magicka (especially less experienced players)
And the argument how stamina is melee and has limitations is kinda stupid when all classes and specs, except mag sorc, stam sniper and some mag blades, are melee specs.
Um...adding an extra effect that disarms stamina abilities to an ultimate that already silences magicka abilities is a buff that makes Negates unquestionably stronger than they currently are.
As stated, I'd prefer a separate AOE ultimate with a Disarm effect. Groups could still stack Disarm and Negate with multiple players, but at least they wouldn't be getting 2 effects for the price of one overpowered ultimate.2 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't bother just bow down to Stamina Dominance. ZOS and the community have continuously been pushing us down this road. Just let it happen or find a different MMO that support caster competitiveness.1 -
sly007✭✭✭✭Make negate and silence work against stamina too. its kinda time after so many years, for obvious balance
Also, can we tone down the guard negates in keeps PLEASE. Its absolutely ridiculous, every 8-10 seconds a negate from a guard is dropped
Are you saying players should be unable to sprint or roll dodge out of negate?0 -
MisterBigglesworth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alternative area-of-denial ideas:- Roll dodging inside caltrops deals extra damage
- Unmorphed version of Trapping Webs deals no damage, but doubles stamina cost of your next physical ability and prevents your next heavy attack from restoring stamina
Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Negates not much of a problem from players but gotdamn! Can we just take it out of the NPC arsenal already?
Really the mag vs stam balance in PVP has become magicka more group support. stam more self. Mostly. Few exceptions3