My Idea to Improve the Vampire skill tree.

Raideen · October 2019

DarknDarker wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Feeding should increase vampire strength. The way it works currently in game, you feed to pretty much weaken the desirable vampire abilities. This goes in contrast with the idea what feeding on blood does for a vampire.

Sorry but this is not how it works in ES universe. Trinking blood is to stay more human like and hungry vampires become insane as well as their pros and cons become more impactful.

Yes and no. Drinking blood is done to MAINTAIN the look of being human, but also increases their power.

ESO has it backwards. The more hunger a vampire has, the weaker they should be. The less hunger or being fully fed should make them the strongest. THIS is when they should get their damage reduction, the mana regen etc. All after feeding. The only thing that should be strong at stage 4 is how much damage they take to fire.

dont go changing the one thing that makes ES vamps more unique. its mentalities like that that cause series to get more and more generic. stage 4 should have a lot of power, but with heavy drawbacks, while stage 1 should be a fair bit weaker both in power and in the drawbacks

I am not changing anything, simply trying to explain to you (per Elder Scrolls lore) why ZOS has it backwards.

StormeReigns · October 2019

Raideen wrote: »

SkerKro wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Feeding should increase vampire strength. The way it works currently in game, you feed to pretty much weaken the desirable vampire abilities. This goes in contrast with the idea what feeding on blood does for a vampire.

Sorry but this is not how it works in ES universe. Trinking blood is to stay more human like and hungry vampires become insane as well as their pros and cons become more impactful.

Yes and no. Drinking blood is done to MAINTAIN the look of being human, but also increases their power.

ESO has it backwards. The more hunger a vampire has, the weaker they should be. The less hunger or being fully fed should make them the strongest. THIS is when they should get their damage reduction, the mana regen etc. All after feeding. The only thing that should be strong at stage 4 is how much damage they take to fire.

All vampires across all media are vastly different. Many share the same myths, many not so much. There is no correct or backwards way with a mythical monster that was romanticized into pop culture by some random drunk Irishman who barely left his own home.

I wrote my post after reading Elder Scrolls lore.

Which lore version? Sounds like your wanting Oblivion Cyrodill vampires with hints of skyrim vamps (Not the Volk version) which would still be two different vamp tribes while trying to incorporate the standard real world myth.

Banana · October 2019

Theres already to many suck heads in the game

Noxavian · October 2019

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Perashim wrote: »

Vampire Lord: (CRIMINAL ACT) Become a Vampire Lord, reducing the cost of all your vampire abilities by 10%/15%/20%/25% based on your stage of vampire for 15 seconds (this stacks with the cost reduction from base form vampire stages). You also gain Waterwalking while active.
Morphs:
Lord of Darkness: (CRIMINAL ACT) Gain a bat swarm while active, which deals ( x ) Physical Damage while enemies are within ( x ) meters of you. You can activate your ultimate again to teleport to a targeted area, dealing an extra burst of ( x ) physical damage.The sky also partially darkens within the bat swarm.
Royal Bloodline: (CRIMINAL ACT) Increases the duration to 20 seconds and increases your vampiric abilities effectiveness by 5%/10%/15%/20% based on your Vampire Stage. You also get a cape and a crown while in your Vampire Lord form. Lucky you!

Vampire's Servant: (CRIMINAL ACT) Raises a zombie to attack your enemies, dealing ( x ) Physical Damage for ( x ) seconds.
Morphs:
Vampire Spawn: (CRIMINAL ACT) Raises a blood fiend instead for ( x ) seconds. Bloodfiend teleports to target and deals increased damage.
Chilling Servant: (CRIMINAL ACT) Raise a frostbitten zombie instead for ( x ) seconds. Inflicts Frost damage and slows target.

Not meaning to be rude but I don't like these idea's. Only necromancer's have criminal act abilities besides it's not a crime to be a vampire. If it was going to be then werewolf would be a criminal act too.

"It's not a crime to be a vampire"

UH. HELLO? EXCUSE ME?

LOL....

It most certainly IS a crime to be a vampire. They are literally hunted and are forced to live in secret.

Noxavian · October 2019

Perashim wrote: »

Here are some of my ideas to add to/change the Vampire skill tree.

Morphs Could give the bat swarm teleport ability without the damage for the first, and the second could reduce the cost of vampire abilities or something. Could look something like this:

Vampire Lord: (CRIMINAL ACT) Become a Vampire Lord, reducing the cost of all your vampire abilities by 10%/15%/20%/25% based on your stage of vampire for 15 seconds (this stacks with the cost reduction from base form vampire stages). You also gain Waterwalking while active.
Morphs:
Lord of Darkness: (CRIMINAL ACT) Gain a bat swarm while active, which deals ( x ) Physical Damage while enemies are within ( x ) meters of you. You can activate your ultimate again to teleport to a targeted area, dealing an extra burst of ( x ) physical damage.The sky also partially darkens within the bat swarm.
Royal Bloodline: (CRIMINAL ACT) Increases the duration to 20 seconds and increases your vampiric abilities effectiveness by 5%/10%/15%/20% based on your Vampire Stage. You also get a cape and a crown while in your Vampire Lord form. Lucky you!

This would be on top of other vampire abilities:

Reign of Terror: Stuns Target (Silences players) and inflicts Minor Defile.
Morphs:
Sovereign of Fear: Targets short area around player instead of one target.
Mortal Terror: Inflicts Major Defile and Major Breach on target

Vampiric Strength: Increase Weapon Damage and Spell Penetration for ( x ) seconds while active.
Morphs:
Eternal Power: Increase Magicka/Stamina Recovery (whichever is higher) while active).
Undying Might: Increases the duration.

Embrace of Shadows: Gain Invisibility and Minor Expedition for ( x ) seconds.
Morphs:
Champion of the Night: Increases duration of all other vampire abilities while this is slotted during the night
Creature of Shadows: Increases duration and gain increased Health Recovery while active.

Alternative Skills:

Vampire's Servant: (CRIMINAL ACT) Raises a zombie to attack your enemies, dealing ( x ) Physical Damage for ( x ) seconds.
Morphs:
Vampire Spawn: (CRIMINAL ACT) Raises a blood fiend instead for ( x ) seconds. Bloodfiend teleports to target and deals increased damage.
Chilling Servant: (CRIMINAL ACT) Raise a frostbitten zombie instead for ( x ) seconds. Inflicts Frost damage and slows target.

Vampiric Grasp: Deals ( x ) Magic Damage over ( x ) seconds. Increased damage if target is stunned.
Morphs:
Bloody Grasp: Deals Physical Damage instead, and increases health recovery while the DoT is active too.
Relentless Grasp: Extends the duration when applied to a stunned target.

What do you guys think?

I want to say I love this suggestion and if this got added I would literally probably implode. This is literally what I want from a vampire skill line. It's unique and so cool. Best part is it could co-exist with the current vampire skill line if we really wanted it to.

starkerealm · October 2019

idk wrote: »

4. I stopped reading this point. Not that I read every paragraph up to this point. You really need to refine your thoughts. Use maybe 25% less words as you will lose Zos' attention by the third paragraph, if not before. I am being serious.

Anyone who knows what they're doing will check out on the second sentence. Werewolves are more popular than vampires? Really? Not in this game.

starkerealm · October 2019

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Not meaning to be rude but I don't like these idea's. Only necromancer's have criminal act abilities besides it's not a crime to be a vampire. If it was going to be then werewolf would be a criminal act too.

In fairness, being a vampire or Werewolf is supposed to be a crime. These are dangerous monsters that can turn on you without notice. Hunting Vampires and Werewolves are entirely legal professions in the setting.

Trick is, playable vampires and werewolves actually predate the justice system. So, honestly, the Werewolf transformation, and all three active Vampire abilities should probably be flagged as criminal acts, at least from a fluff perspective. That said, not really seeing this as a necessary change. At least not without significant changes to how these abilities work.

starkerealm · October 2019

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Also I have autism so I get descriptive when suggesting things and I repeat alot of words. Sorry.

@TheRoamingSpirit, then take a minute, and draft it down. Start with bullet points, find the things you want to talk about, and be as efficient as possible with the language.

EDIT: Also, and I mean this, you probably do not want to announce that to random strangers. It can permanently color how people look at you. It's your choice to make, but is something that people can be "undiplomatic" about, and it can have unfortunate consequences.

starkerealm · October 2019

Okay, I'm going to pull some pieces.

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Currently the vampires in ESO don't have much skills and aren't too popular within the game. Mostly I see players preferring to be werewolves rather than vampires.

This is, factually incorrect. There are a metric ton of vampires out there. The active skills aren't particularly popular. Batswarm used to be amazing, but not so much in years. Drain is... ugh. Mist Form is legitimately amazing, in very niche circumstances. There's a few mechanics where you can soak it off by Mist Forming out. A big example is in Asylum Sanctorum, where you can just ignore the massive flame AoEs, if you can Mist.

EDIT: A lot of vampire don't announce the fact. The screenshots below are an example. I'm running the Arctic Rime skin to her vampirism. If you have buff tracking on, you'll see a lot of players with Vampirism, that are hiding it with a skin.

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

I only see them becoming vampires just to unlock the achievement and dye. Most of my characters are vampires and I know that most users would classify my characters as weak since the vampires aren't strong.

The vast majority of Vampires, are vampires for the passives. So, you don't see that. You really don't see it. People take it for the 10% recovery at Stage 2. Some sit there forever, which is a mistake, because Undeath is a shockly good passive, even if it's not particularly obvious. So, that's Stage 3. Stage 4's Nightstalker is take it or leave it. It's nice to have, but it's not amazing.

The only downsides are the increased flame damage and the health recovery penalty, which don't really matter. Most circumstances where flame damage would have killed you, would do it regardless of whether you were a leech or not. Health recovery is garbage. Just straight up. This stat is not worth stacking. There are too many ways to actively heal yourself (vampire or not), for this modifier to matter.

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

I also want to point out that the very first passive in the vampire skill tree doesn't work since the update that changed the stunning.

Taken tonight:

Stage 4:

Stage 1:

Passive's working fine.

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

One of the major problems with the vampires is that the feeding requires you to crouch and sneak up on humanoids however when you have the blade of woe which requires the same thing it makes assassinations difficult.

Yeah, this is an issue. On PC, there's Vampire's Woe which will allow you to disable each of the synergies independently.

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

The new ultimate idea I think should be added is a bloodfiend ultimate, This ultimate is similar to the werewolf ultimate meaning yes adding a third bar for the vampire skills and changing the way the character moves and acts in this form.

So, ZOS has shown that they want to be very careful about giving players access to a third bar. Also, it makes vampire less useful because you're shuffling it all over to a Hot Topic flavored Werewolf.

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Since bloodfiends are already in game...

Bloodfiends are vampires who've lost themselves to their hunger. This isn't like the Werewolf where it's a temporary transformation, so much as a permanent state of frenzy that the individual can't recover from. It's a little like asking for a zombie transformation. Bloodfiends are, actually, less powerful than player vampires.

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Always staying at stage 4 can be quite a challenge mostly for nightblades.

Again, use the addon, or make sure you're closer to the target than you think you need to be. The Feed has a minimum range, so you can get inside it's limit and BoW someone.

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Third thing I want to discuss is the XP gain for the vampires. The current XP gain is....Not a favorite in the ESO community. This is the skill tree the takes the longest to master. I've gotten my characters changed at level 3 and I could master the weapon skills and class skills alot faster than the vampire skills. It took months to finally master and even now I still have characters whom haven't mastered vampire yet because the XP gain is so little so you can't master vampire until you are champion level.

This is inaccurate on several levels.

Vampire XP gain does not scale based on slotted skills. Leveling from Vampire 1 to Vampire 10 requires earning 89,816 XP. Full stop. So, unlike class skills, you cannot accelerate it by slapping abilities on your bar.

Vampire advances from "any" XP source you receive. (This does not include Inspiration, because that's not XP.)

The amount of XP to max out a vampire is semi-trivial. It, actually takes more XP to level from 36 to 37, than it does to max out Vampire.

Leveling a vampire at low levels is miserable. Always has been. However, XP telescopes as you level. The turning point is 36, when it will actually be faster to go 1 to 10 on Vampire than it will to gain a single level. By the time you've hit level 50, you'll have earned 2.8 million XP. 90k is pocket change.

The thing about Vampires and Werewolves is, you're really not really supposed to get these before level 40. So, originally, you had to deal with level 38 mobs in order to become either. This didn't mean it was impossible to clear the content at lower levels. I got a wolf through at level 12, back before they changed how the Hunting Grounds worked, and made it a scaling environment, but it was brutal.

As a result, Werewolf and Vampire are both balanced around the idea that you'll be fairly experienced with the game by the time you get them, and be getting a lot of XP.

It's also not the worst skill line by any means. There's a lot of people on the boards that would point an accusatory finger at Psijic before they even think about Vampire. Jewelry Crafting, Legerdemain, Undaunted, and the Alliance War skill lines are all more onerous to level than Vampire. Best of all, Vampire levels from (basically) everything, without requiring a skill on the bar, meaning you can just become a vampire and forget about it until you're ready.

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Since it is bugged out right now it shouldn't be hard to change it.

Bugged how? When I was getting the screenshots above, it was working as intended.

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Mist form is my favorite active ability in the vampire skill tree this ability I don't want to change much but I would like a slightly lower magicka cost and the disabled magicka recovery to be removed only because of the new active abilities I will be listing shortly and since the vampires are magicka based these abilities will cost magicka and you need your recovery.

So, fun trivia: When the game first launched, Mist Form did not block mag recovery. It blocked healing, but also gave an exemption for Devouring Swarm. This is where things went off the rails. It was possible to get Swarm's ult cost down to ~6. (The vampire cost discount was significantly higher, and a Stage 4 sorc wearing Akaviri Dragonguard could almost zero their ult costs.) This created a situation where someone could, literally, solo hundreds of players in PvP using Devouring Swarm and spamming Mistform.

If you have recovery while Mistform is up, you can cast it infinitely. Combine that with Elusive Mist, and it gives vampires the ability to disengage at will in PvP. This isn't speculation on my part, it used to be a thing.

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

I don't know if the community will agree...

Don't worry, it won't. The community can't agree on what to have for lunch.

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

I thought may help the vampires...

I respect where you're coming from, but, it would not. This would castrate vampires as a character build element. They'd be in the same boat as werewolves; interesting, but only useful in niche circumstances.

buttaface · October 2019

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Currently the vampires in ESO don't have much skills and aren't too popular within the game. Mostly I see players preferring to be werewolves rather than vampires.

Wut? Stopped reading there.

Vampires are fine, the only thing is that sets and other similar effects should not be triggerable while in mist form.

Noxavian · October 2019

buttaface wrote: »

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Currently the vampires in ESO don't have much skills and aren't too popular within the game. Mostly I see players preferring to be werewolves rather than vampires.

Wut? Stopped reading there.

Vampires are fine, the only thing is that sets and other similar effects should not be triggerable while in mist form.

Having 3 skills and having only 1 that is really used isn't "fine". Having all magicka based builds automatically take vampire because "muh passives" and not for the fact of being a, you know, vampire isn't fine. Much like werewolf, vampire should promote a "pick me because you want to be a vampire" playstyle, not a "pick me because im the ONLY option for magicka users".

Having a better vampire skill line or even a couple different bloodlines to choose from wouldn't be a bad idea.

If you think vampire is fine, I highly recommend broadening your horizons instead of being satisfied with the rather poor excuse for 'vampires' we have right now.

starkerealm · October 2019

Noxavian wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Currently the vampires in ESO don't have much skills and aren't too popular within the game. Mostly I see players preferring to be werewolves rather than vampires.

Wut? Stopped reading there.

Vampires are fine, the only thing is that sets and other similar effects should not be triggerable while in mist form.

Having 3 skills and having only 1 that is really used isn't "fine".

It really is. All three skills are usable, situationally. The only one that really needs some love is Drain. That channel is murder. Aside from that, Batswarm could be better, but it's not like the ult is unusable.

It's not like any of the active abilities are so powerful you need to be a vampire. And that's probably a good thing.

Noxavian wrote: »

Having all magicka based builds automatically take vampire because "muh passives" and not for the fact of being a, you know, vampire isn't fine. Much like werewolf, vampire should promote a "pick me because you want to be a vampire" playstyle, not a "pick me because im the ONLY option for magicka users".

The problem here isn't that Vampire is the only option for Mag users. It's that the passives are (basically) free unless you need to be a Werewolf for some reason. +10% recovery is very good, but it's not mandatory. The problem is that halving your health recovery and increasing your fire damage received is basically meaningless. So, the perks are free, and the penalties don't matter.

TheRoamingSpirit · October 2019

Well...I found a new issue with the vampires. It's not letting me feed now. I'm guessing it's because my characters use the blade of Woe. I guess it's no longer compatible...Goes back to if your a vampire you can't be an assassin from the dark brotherhood.

starkerealm · October 2019

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Well...I found a new issue with the vampires. It's not letting me feed now. I'm guessing it's because my characters use the blade of Woe. I guess it's no longer compatible...Goes back to if your a vampire you can't be an assassin from the dark brotherhood.

You can. The synergy for feeding works at longer distances. You can also feed on targets in combat, if you're stealthed. You cannot blade of woe someone in a combat stance.

TheRoamingSpirit · October 2019

You can't feed on targets while in combat That only applies to the werewolves devour. In order to feed as a vampire you have to sneak up behind a humanoid. Only it gives me the blade of woe option instead of being able to feed.

yRaven · October 2019

Is this a joke? The only place i don't run vampires is PVP, because in PVE everything i can touch will be a vampire, its basically 10% regen with no drawbacks, easy choice

starkerealm · October 2019

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

You can't feed on targets while in combat That only applies to the werewolves devour. In order to feed as a vampire you have to sneak up behind a humanoid. Only it gives me the blade of woe option instead of being able to feed.

You can feed on foes mid combat if you have a way to get into stealth (Cloak, invisibility potions, heavy attack kills with Shadow Strike, though margin for error on Shadow Strike is pretty low.) Alternately, if an enemy aggros on another player, you can still feed on them.

You cannot Blade of Woe a target who is in combat. But you can feed on them.

FierceSam · October 2019

It is dumb and klunky (and lazy game design) that both Blade of Woe and Vampire feeding should use the same mechanic.

It makes life as a vampire assassin bloody difficult.

It is dumb and klunky that 99% of ESO vampires never feed because they are only using the vampire skill line for its very fine passives.

Vampires should have to feed to get the stage 4 passives, which should also normalise their appearance and should be viewed as criminal if they haven’t fed and look like corpses.

That would mean players who are vampires would be driven to feed, which is the essence of what being a vampire is.

Michaelkeir · October 2019

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Currently the vampires in ESO don't have much skills and aren't too popular within the game.

I generally laughed out loud at this. Vampires are everywhere. Most just hide their pale skin under other skins or costumes. The passives are too good. Most meta-builds have you becoming a vampire for the passive.

Werewolves bleed has been nerfed repeatedly since sometime after the Wolfhunter dlc. More so now and the Pack leader morph was neutered as well which hurt a lot of ww builds.

As for the rest....it was too wordy as others have said...but I would not be against a vampire rework. But what you suggest mirrors WW too much. Vampires should not be tired to a transformation....

Deathlord92 · October 2019

I don’t like your idea at all for vampires. Not to be nasty in any sort of way but blood fiends are mindless my vampire is calculating and powerful if feeding were to change I’d rather feed on my target neck like skyrim vampires traditional vampires do if they change our ultimate it should be a vampire lord not a mindless blood fiend.

Defilted · October 2019

I am sure it had already been said but tons of vamps in PVP. I dont want to see it changed as I use it in PVP for some of my builds.

If it changed I am sure it would be for the worse.

TheRoamingSpirit · October 2019

Werewolves are mindless too according to lore and some/if not all of the werewolf quests. So my idea about the bloodfiend form for the vampires isn't as bad as most of you think it is. In all honesty I know I've seen users saying they want a vampire lord ultimate for the vampires revamp but I think it'll be strange having a ton of vampire lords running around since they are considered rare in the lore. Besides at the end of the vampire quest Lamae Bal stated she must warn us but never states what she is warning us about so she could be warning us that we could be wild and savage.

Deathlord92 · October 2019

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Werewolves are mindless too according to lore and some/if not all of the werewolf quests. So my idea about the bloodfiend form for the vampires isn't as bad as most of you think it is. In all honesty I know I've seen users saying they want a vampire lord ultimate for the vampires revamp but I think it'll be strange having a ton of vampire lords running around since they are considered rare in the lore. Besides at the end of the vampire quest Lamae Bal stated she must warn us but never states what she is warning us about so she could be warning us that we could be wild and savage.

Not this vampire.

starkerealm · October 2019

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Werewolves are mindless too according to lore and some/if not all of the werewolf quests.

Depends on the werewolf. We've seen plenty of cases where werewolves retain awareness through the transform.

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

So my idea about the bloodfiend form for the vampires isn't as bad as most of you think it is.

A vampire degenerating into a bloodfiend is a very bad thing.

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

In all honesty I know I've seen users saying they want a vampire lord ultimate for the vampires revamp but I think it'll be strange having a ton of vampire lords running around since they are considered rare in the lore.

Correct, a vampire lord transform would make less sense than a bloodfiend "transform." That does not make either idea appropriate.

TheRoamingSpirit wrote: »

Besides at the end of the vampire quest Lamae Bal stated she must warn us but never states what she is warning us about so she could be warning us that we could be wild and savage.

If we take your assessment at face value... that would suggest that becoming a bloodfiend is a very bad thing. Which, I mean, it is, and we know it is. But, if you're specifically being warned against that potential outcome, it stands to reason this is something you wouldn't want to experience.