Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Introduce 810CP Group Finder option
-
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daddysadface wrote: »Daddysadface wrote: »it has been my experience more then not that a 810+ will out perform a low cp rank player either it be skill, rotation, or gear.
This is great. However, I was with a group where the CP capped healer started a vote to kick the barely CP 160 DPS from the group.
Fortunately myself and the other DPS did not support the vote, the healer quit the group, and we went on to three man the vet dungeon in HM without a death. The CP caped DPS off healed and I can do some decent tanking. I highly doubt they were a transfer either.
You see, Zos already determined, with player feedback, what the minimum requirements should be for each dungeon when the GF is used to queue. If you require something more specific Zos already gave you that option by letting you form your own group and should not add more filters because some people cannot be bothered with such a small task.
+1 to what Stark said below. On an alt account I have out dpsed the entire dungeon group as a healer near CP 160 and the entire group was CP capped. CP capped by no means demonstrates skill and player skill trumps both gear and CP.
I want you to remember, "ZOS" also determined to Sanitize every class into the problem they are having today, so that point is Moot. The option of forming your own group, again is a moot point. It's an mmo, that is a basic fundamental of the game type.
You supporting a decision that lead to a completion seems to me more of dumb luck and it could of very easily went the opposite way. Again Moot point. And you being experienced, playing well on an "Alt account" out dpsing 2 810+ dps qued toons sounds either like total BS, or your luck is terrible as your points of why an option shouldn't be added to the game.
No. I take the position that we get off our duffs and actually do something from time to time instead of asking Zos to hold our hands and walk us through everything. I take the position that if I want to be all elitist and not want to avoid running a dungeon that I put forth the small effort to form the group to the specifications that I desire instead of asking Zos to do even more for me. You can claim all you want that you are not elitist but your comments suggest otherwise.
Zos listened to us long ago. These complaints in thread just like this. They adjusted the requirements for each dungeon as a result of player feedback. Clearly they chose to not add controls similar to what you request. I think (my opinion) is that was Zos saying that if you want a more specific group you can do that on your own.
Of course, if Zos thinks differently they will incorporate your idea quickly. If not, and until then, I suggest you start forming your own group to avoid those lesser CP players you find so appalling.4 -
bmnoble✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Big flaw in your plan is, plenty of those players that never get taught eventually reach CP 810 and would end up queuing with you ruining your exclusive queue.
You want a good group find friends guild mates, or even ask for like minded competent individuals looking to skip the queue to join you.
You choose to use a random group finder, you never know what your going to get, its not the perfect group for me finder.
I don't mind teaching low level players stuff in dungeons, its part of the game we all started without knowing the mechanics of the dungeons.
Stuff relating to the dungeons that is, the main thing that annoys me is when you get a player for instance that has no clue what a rotation is, as in they haven't even heard of the concept and have no rotation to speak of.
Or does not know how to interrupt or break free, even when to block or dodge roll and for the love of god those that don't know how to move out of an area of effect.
The only time a group member (usually the tank) Should stay in a red circle/area is when the boss is using an attack that follows who ever has the bosses attention so that it does not hit the rest of the group. Banished cells 2, Daedroth boss for example, the giant werewolfs in Moon hunter keep etc...
The only change I want to the group finder is an option to exclude a set number of dungeons from your queue that's it, everyone has dungeons they hate doing and if I get a bad group on those dungeons I leave.
If I could exclude those dungeons, then a group is more likely to get someone that wants to be there.0 -
Hapexamendios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I’m 810 and there are some dungeons I don’t know the mechanics in very well because I haven’t ran them enough. Will you teach me?3 -
Alienoutlaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hapexamendios wrote: »I’m 810 and there are some dungeons I don’t know the mechanics in very well because I haven’t ran them enough. Will you teach me?
if your willing to learn
1 -
Drako_Ei✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »I once watched a sorc with over 1k CP, hard spamming crystal frags.
I don't think 810 only is the problem.
What´s the problem with crystal frags. Take it easy dude.
Nothing wrong with casting crystal frags.
...hardcasting on the other hand
...0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You want a specific group, form your own. People have brought complaints against the group finder for years. Most solutions suggested will some stratify the players in group Finder which will just increase que times.Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"1 -
Daddysadface✭✭✭I am not sure how I am translating an "Elitist" vibe by suggesting an option to be added to group finder to help a player select a broader or more narrow pool of others to do an activity with.
First. I fully understand that I can put parties together on my own. That is not the topic nor is it any kind of defense for not supporting more options to be given to players. People who finally reached level cap should be able choose to play with others that have spent the time to gain CP 810+ with the convenience of an in game group finder that every level 10+ gets to enjoy.
Obviously cp 810+ does not translate to a players knowledge, skill, gear set etc... What this does translate to is someone who is probably very open to improving themselves by showing they have had the dedication to playing the game to the current "End Game" Cp Cap. Making it easier for people to help address problems if any are found in a group setting with dps, tanking or healing etc...
Again, I am not suggesting a "Forced 810+ only Group finder once 810+ is reached". I am only suggesting the OPTION to limit the pool of people for any random or selective dungeon or activity. Allowing each player to make the decision if they have time, patience, gear, ability, knowledge to do the selected activity, and what pool of players they are willing to group with.
Not everyone has an open schedule or patience to teach mechanics over and over and over just to complete what would normally be a quick and fun dungeon run, only to make it into a failed attempt and a loss of time that can never be given back to the player(s). Can this still happen with 810+, sure can, but what are the chances vs an open pool of people from 300 -810+?
And of Course I am willing to teach mechanics that I know to people. However, that doesn't mean that I want to every single time I do a quick random VET dungeon before I have to log out for real life activities, RL>ESO LIFE waiting to finally get a good pug run. I don't see the point of doing Daily Normal pugs as I typically will only just drag 3 others behind me as I burn the dungeon to the floor just with my back bar. Or if there are 2 810+ or more, it just feels like we violate the dungeon and then go, ok that was fast....what's next?
I suppose actually being "Endgame" could make those who aren't view you as an "Elitist", and what is wrong with being "Elite"? Isn't that the whole point of playing? If you put in the time and dedicate yourself to learning something you no longer should be considered "Average" in that activity but specialized in said activity, game or whatever you have decided to invest your energy into.
Edited by Daddysadface on October 7, 2019 1:22AM0 -
SipofMaim✭✭✭✭What you're looking for is a guild. Or a deep enough friend list you can form a group of your own for that quick random. I doubt what you're asking for would have the effect you want anyway, but it would surely have a ripple effect on queue times and the community as a whole.
If you want the convenience of GF, you roll the dice and take your chances. If you want a particular kind of group, YOU make a change, not the whole game.1 -
Daddysadface✭✭✭You want a specific group, form your own. People have brought complaints against the group finder for years. Most solutions suggested will some stratify the players in group Finder which will just increase que times.You want a specific group, form your own. People have brought complaints against the group finder for years. Most solutions suggested will some stratify the players in group Finder which will just increase que times.
Maybe there are some of us that would love to use it more, but /facepalm at the thought of having to pug Randoms from a pool of 300 all the way up to 810+ and just decide to await friends or more people to log on. I love how people act as if this game is loaded with people who always want to farm, teach, do specific dungeons or even have the patience to try to pug a potential nightmare of a player that just hit 300 and still doesn't understand what a "LA weave" is, or says "I play as I want" as if its justification for being stubborn to learn how the combat works.0 -
Daddysadface✭✭✭What you're looking for is a guild. Or a deep enough friend list you can form a group of your own for that quick random. I doubt what you're asking for would have the effect you want anyway, but it would surely have a ripple effect on queue times and the community as a whole.
If you want the convenience of GF, you roll the dice and take your chances. If you want a particular kind of group, YOU make a change, not the whole game.
You have decided in your own mind that GF is an absolute roll of the dice, I am saying, it doesn't need to be so open of a "Roll". You are saying I am looking for a guild, yet I have 5. You are saying I need a deeper friends list, but yet, I cant add a friend with out deleting one. The post is made as a Suggestion to add more options to a part of the game that promotes finding a group, with the suggestion being to allow end game players to have more control of the pool they are willing to "Roll the dice" with, if they want to take advantage of the Group finder.0 -
SipofMaim✭✭✭✭Daddysadface wrote: »What you're looking for is a guild. Or a deep enough friend list you can form a group of your own for that quick random. I doubt what you're asking for would have the effect you want anyway, but it would surely have a ripple effect on queue times and the community as a whole.
If you want the convenience of GF, you roll the dice and take your chances. If you want a particular kind of group, YOU make a change, not the whole game.
You have decided in your own mind that GF is an absolute roll of the dice, I am saying, it doesn't need to be so open of a "Roll". You are saying I am looking for a guild, yet I have 5. You are saying I need a deeper friends list, but yet, I cant add a friend with out deleting one. The post is made as a Suggestion to add more options to a part of the game that promotes finding a group, with the suggestion being to allow end game players to have more control of the pool they are willing to "Roll the dice" with, if they want to take advantage of the Group finder.
I see, you're being philanthropic. No, thank you. The problem you're trying to solve already has a solution.0 -
Daddysadface✭✭✭I see, you're being philanthropic. No, thank you. The problem you're trying to solve already has a solution.[/quote]
Philanthropy means the love of humanity. A conventional modern definition is "private initiatives, for the public good, focusing on quality of life", which combines an original humanistic tradition with a social scientific aspect developed in the 20th century.
You sure showed me!
0 -
david_m_18b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Most of my bad normal pug experience are due to a 810+ cp dumb ars that run like a tard and pull everything in sight just to get us killed and proceed to cry like a baby.3
-
Daddysadface✭✭✭david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »Most of my bad normal pug experience are due to a 810+ cp dumb ars that run like a tard and pull everything in sight just to get us killed and proceed to cry like a baby.
Interesting, Though I am not sure how your experience has any direct correlation on either or not a Group finder should have the added option for people 810+ to focus their pool of potential group members to only 810+ players, or to try to pull a group from 300-810+ players.
Sorry you had that experience? But I think everyone has a story that would suggest there are some players of all cp that just don't play well in groups or with others or do some very "Interesting" things while in game.Edited by Daddysadface on October 7, 2019 2:14AM0 -
Daddysadface✭✭✭I stand by my suggestion. Give 810+ CP players the option to choose either or not to enable Group finder to look for only 810+ Group members or any group members being CP available for chosen activity. It's a Suggestion, not a Patch Note...0
-
oddbasket✭✭✭✭✭
✭During the Imprerial City event, I pugged a vICP, had a full cp810 team, our 2 dps were 1.6k cp with 36k health and using 2 hander.
Our group dps on the first boss was 16k, tank pulled 4k, healer 5k... things don't always work out with high cp too...1 -
Daddysadface✭✭✭During the Imprerial City event, I pugged a vICP, had a full cp810 team, our 2 dps were 1.6k cp with 36k health and using 2 hander.
Our group dps on the first boss was 16k, tank pulled 4k, healer 5k... things don't always work out with high cp too...
So... Not having an option to choose only 810+ people would have solved your unlucky PUG.. How? By Giving you a greater potential pool of inexperienced players? Do tell, I am interested, you have my attention and I am very curious where this logic train stops.Edited by Daddysadface on October 7, 2019 2:20AM0 -
Daddysadface✭✭✭I still await a logical counter argument for my suggestion. All I have heard is players experience that has nothing to do with an added option put into or onto the group finding tool being able to limit the potential players of a group to a fixed cp range or the current open pool of cp available for the selected activity. I am still unsure why anyone would fight against giving themselves options, unless it was only for argument sake.
Edited by Daddysadface on October 7, 2019 2:31AM0 -
oddbasket✭✭✭✭✭
✭Likewise a 810cp group finder is just a way to reduce unlucky pugs, but only for specific portion of the player base and not a solution, it's a selfish suggestion in nature. Someone who cares enough to avoid suffering in group finder will be better served to find 1 or 2 other vet players in guilds or zone before queueing or just go full premade.
I play solo, and pug dungeons, the number of 810cp tanks I get is much lower in comparison. What it does is split up the pool of available healers and tanks. The finder would be great for tanks, but probably not so for other roles in terms of queue time. On the other hand, I'm fine with 810cp dds which is a more significant portion of the queue removing themselves from the normal queue, that would help decrease the times on the normal queue. Ultimately, it will be a waste of resources to implement this since the expected benefit is likely overestimated to the actual difference it would make, especially when players continue to use group finder as a lazy excuse when their pugs go wrong, instead of making more of an effort to ensure their own smooth runs. What would be next after 810cp queue? Health and tanking gear and skills requirement? DPS and heal check in the group finder?
1 -
thorwyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I still await a logical counter argument for my suggestion.
The logical counter argument IMO is that this option would divide the pool of players even more. Just like all the other suggestions for a dlc / non-dlc filter, a story mode filter, a dps-check filter, an achievement run filter, which all sounds nice and dandy on paper. The current GF isn't even capable of handling the existing player pool properly and the addition of a cascade of filters and options certainly wouldn't help.
And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill
And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon1 -
Daddysadface✭✭✭I still await a logical counter argument for my suggestion.
The logical counter argument IMO is that this option would divide the pool of players even more. Just like all the other suggestions for a dlc / non-dlc filter, a story mode filter, a dps-check filter, an achievement run filter, which all sounds nice and dandy on paper. The current GF isn't even capable of handling the existing player pool properly and the addition of a cascade of filters and options certainly wouldn't help.
Your concern is the player pool being more divided? What makes players not enjoy using the Group finder must be polled by ZoS. I have a sneaking feeling from being in this game on and off from Beta and listening and having my own experiences being over 1100+CP that it is due to having to be matched up with people who either lack the skill, gear, cp or experience to complete selected activity. Now, if you take that #1 reason out, and you say, now you can choose as an 810+ to only have other 810+ people, how many "End game" players that have not used it in a long time due to that concern would start trying to use it again? Increasing the pool.
Also, it should be noted, Not all Pre 810+ want to play with "end game" players that are bored and just want to show off and burn a dungeon down that they have a quest for still or just want to play with others around the same CP level and experience new people (not friends nor guild mates) to socialize with and make new potential friends with maybe more of a diverse chat then what is provided by their daily guilds or friends...
What people are calling "Selfish" of me, actually is Selfless, as I would be effected by a more limited player pool also, "IF" I checked the "810+" Option Box. Again, the suggestion is only to give the option to choose 810+ or not for the Group finder to pull players from into a group of required size to complete the selected activity.
Again, people are going off topic of what is trying to be a suggestion that could benefit endgame and also up and coming players. Again, an Option to choose, not a forced, you can only play with these people option for those that have invested the time and energy late into the game.0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »The option is already there. Form your own group then que.FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »I know right. If OP wanted to take it further. OP could form a guild of like minded players.
This is what I always say when I see threads like this.
Adding additional criteria to the group finder inevitably leads to longer queue times for everyone ... since the matchmaking process is slowed by fewer players in each additional layer of queue.
Don’t use the group finder if you don’t have time to teach. Period.2 -
Daddysadface✭✭✭Please try to stay on topic.
"Introduce CP810 group finder Option"
To explain: A Check Box in Group finder, that will have the "Group finding tool" Only look for needed classes that are at least 810+ CP for selected activity.
UNCHECK the box anytime you want it to pull from the larger pool of players.
I would like to hear Logical counter arguments, not experiences, if anyone can actually come up with any. Limited player pool is the whole point. If that pains you, help newer players level to 810+ so they can check the box also. You might even make new friends.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daddysadface wrote: »You want a specific group, form your own. People have brought complaints against the group finder for years. Most solutions suggested will some stratify the players in group Finder which will just increase que times.You want a specific group, form your own. People have brought complaints against the group finder for years. Most solutions suggested will some stratify the players in group Finder which will just increase que times.
Maybe there are some of us that would love to use it more, but /facepalm at the thought of having to pug Randoms from a pool of 300 all the way up to 810+ and just decide to await friends or more people to log on. I love how people act as if this game is loaded with people who always want to farm, teach, do specific dungeons or even have the patience to try to pug a potential nightmare of a player that just hit 300 and still doesn't understand what a "LA weave" is, or says "I play as I want" as if its justification for being stubborn to learn how the combat works.
I read this and go back to why you question where the elitist vibe is coming from.
The reality is this game is loaded with players who are into farming gear. The game is loaded with players willing to help players learn the game and content. The game is loaded with players interested in doing specific dungeons.
Now the thought that a CP player that just hit 300 and does not know how to LA weave yet some they miraculously learned it by the CP cap is really absurd as I have seen so many CP capped players that were pathetically bad. That sentence made me laugh. It totally trashes your justification and demonstrates why this is such a poor idea. Really now.
BTW, if you are that solid of a player where someone who does not know how to weave LAs is beneath you then you should be able to easily join a solid raiding guild which is great source for forming dungeons groups. Odd that such an amazing player as yourself does not have that solution available to you.3 -
Daddysadface✭✭✭Daddysadface wrote: »You want a specific group, form your own. People have brought complaints against the group finder for years. Most solutions suggested will some stratify the players in group Finder which will just increase que times.You want a specific group, form your own. People have brought complaints against the group finder for years. Most solutions suggested will some stratify the players in group Finder which will just increase que times.
Maybe there are some of us that would love to use it more, but /facepalm at the thought of having to pug Randoms from a pool of 300 all the way up to 810+ and just decide to await friends or more people to log on. I love how people act as if this game is loaded with people who always want to farm, teach, do specific dungeons or even have the patience to try to pug a potential nightmare of a player that just hit 300 and still doesn't understand what a "LA weave" is, or says "I play as I want" as if its justification for being stubborn to learn how the combat works.
I read this and go back to why you question where the elitist vibe is coming from.
The reality is this game is loaded with players who are into farming gear. The game is loaded with players willing to help players learn the game and content. The game is loaded with players interested in doing specific dungeons.
Now the thought that a CP player that just hit 300 and does not know how to LA weave yet some they miraculously learned it by the CP cap is really absurd as I have seen so many CP capped players that were pathetically bad. That sentence made me laugh. It totally trashes your justification and demonstrates why this is such a poor idea. Really now.
BTW, if you are that solid of a player where someone who does not know how to weave LAs is beneath you then you should be able to easily join a solid raiding guild which is great source for forming dungeons groups. Odd that such an amazing player as yourself does not have that solution available to you.
Nice speculation and opinion. So what is your argument for or against a check box added to the group finder that will allow 810+ cp players to choose the group finder to only pull players from a 810+ pool or uncheck it to have it pull from a pool of players that are appropriate for the selected activity.
Edited by Daddysadface on October 7, 2019 4:05AM0 -
Daddysadface✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »The option is already there. Form your own group then que.FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »I know right. If OP wanted to take it further. OP could form a guild of like minded players.
This is what I always say when I see threads like this.
Adding additional criteria to the group finder inevitably leads to longer queue times for everyone ... since the matchmaking process is slowed by fewer players in each additional layer of queue.
Don’t use the group finder if you don’t have time to teach. Period.
I almost spit out my beer... So wait, we all have it wrong? It's not group finder but mentor finder... ohhhhh and I wondered why people said I was nuts when I told them I am actually going to que for a dungeon HM and hope I get a good group, here is rolling the dice right... explains to much of the "Elitist" end game Vibe coming off us "end game" players. Because some actually and honestly didn't know others like yourself consider it a teaching tool. I will let my friends and guilds know. Thanks for the information.0 -
Daddysadface✭✭✭Please read the Topic and post relevant discussion to the topic. Group finder is not Mentor finder, I want to make that clear to all the people that might be confused to it's actual purpose.0
-
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daddysadface wrote: »I still await a logical counter argument for my suggestion.
You've been told, dozens of times, CP does not relate to player skill, there is no value in your request. At which point you respond, "lolz, tl;dr."5 -
Alienoutlaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Daddysadface wrote: »Please read the Topic and post relevant discussion to the topic. Group finder is not Mentor finder, I want to make that clear to all the people that might be confused to it's actual purpose.
its actual purpose is to group you with RANDOM members you DONT get to choose their ability or their knowledge of the game, if you CHOOSE to use the GF tool then you must either except the results or leave the group and find one you CAN pick and choose the members, have a cp810 button will only give you a higher cp level it will NOT guarantee competence or skill therefore rendering it useless 2 -
Daddysadface✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Daddysadface wrote: »I still await a logical counter argument for my suggestion.
You've been told, dozens of times, CP does not relate to player skill, there is no value in your request. At which point you respond, "lolz, tl;dr."
So what your saying is that your position is that CP does not relate to difficulty of and to endgame instance(s) and the instance or activity being able to be achieved efficiently as if CP has no relevance in player progression? Please Link me a video of you and your friend(s) with 0 CP completing a DLC Dungeon Speed run/Hard mode/No Death or a newer non craig. vTrail HM SR/HM/ND.
So as it doesn't "relate to skill" it absolutely matters to player efficiency. And to me, that matters. A players time should be considered as a value not a default freebie to the devs nor other players.
Adding "Quality of Life" options takes nothing from the player base if implemented correctly. Having a button that can be checked or unchecked takes nothing away from the player base and if anything gives the player base incentive to once again possibly try a system that so many have already given up on for various reasons in the past.
gf.0
This discussion has been closed.