Introduce 810CP Group Finder option

Daddysadface

Not all of us Veterans enjoy having to teach mechanics and even simple game play in dungeons that we have done hundreds or even thousands of times. Some of us do, but are then forced to carry the newer player through the dungeon, if possible with the newer dungeons having very heavy mechanics involved. I understand console players can explain mechanics using voip, but on pc we typically just type the information into the chat box if needed. This slows progress and makes a fun experience turn into a labor of love as you hope and pray the player can pick up and understand the explanation of the mechanics as it is given.. No, I'm not being "Elitist", I am suggesting an Idea that would actually entice players that normally would never "PUG" to once again give Group Finder a go on slow and boring days, or just to meet other end game players. I have always thought that mixing your "End game" players with "New" players by force will do nothing but aggravate all involved in any instance, dungeon or situation. I am sure the new players also don't enjoy having to be through dungeons that they have never seen before at a brake neck speed or kicked from group. ~ Just a thought. DDSF

Partomax

If you can't carry 3 people in a normal dungeon I don't think you're as good as you think you are buddy.

Agenericname

Define "new player." Are we talking normal dungeons?

Daedric_NB_187

The option is already there. Form your own group then que.

starkerealm

I once watched a sorc with over 1k CP, hard spamming crystal frags.

I don't think 810 only is the problem.

svendf

starkerealm wrote: »

I once watched a sorc with over 1k CP, hard spamming crystal frags.

I don't think 810 only is the problem.

What´s the problem with crystal frags. Take it easy dude.

VampiricByNature

I guess I'm a jerk. My friends and I never mind teaching a new player mechanics or helping them complete in the hope that they join the endgame community one day. An 810 still has a high chance of not being an experienced player aiming for min/max type character design. Some 310s are far superior/educated players and I wouldn't want to exclude myself from the chance of meeting them. Recently did a pug vet MHK with a 361 healer and 224 dps. Guess what? Completed no issues. Never judge a book by their CP.

The worst thing for ME is when a person joins dungeon finder as a healer- but is clearly a dps. Or as a tank- also clearly a dps. They usually go on to lecture about how this particular vet dungeon doesn't need a healer or a tank when we ask that they not do this. That's the 810 crowd I could do without.
If I want to dungeon fast as possible? I just look for people out of my endgame trial guild. We all need transmuted.

idk

We have long had the ability to choose who we run a dungeon with by forming the group ourselves. It provides a great range of choices from forming a group to enjoy the storyline or go for a hard hitting fast run.

The GF is merely intended to form a random group form the requirements set for the dungeons available. For going beyond those requirements form your own group.

BTW. CP means very little as player skill trumps it by far. Myself and others have been on alt accounts/servers and at ~CP 160 have out dpsed entire groups of CP caped players. Funny thing is I have done that as a healer which really demonstrates what really matters most.

Agenericname

VampiricByNature wrote: »

I guess I'm a jerk. My friends and I never mind teaching a new player mechanics or helping them complete in the hope that they join the endgame community one day. An 810 still has a high chance of not being an experienced player aiming for min/max type character design. Some 310s are far superior/educated players and I wouldn't want to exclude myself from the chance of meeting them. Recently did a pug vet MHK with a 361 healer and 224 dps. Guess what? Completed no issues. Never judge a book by their CP.

The worst thing for ME is when a person joins dungeon finder as a healer- but is clearly a dps. Or as a tank- also clearly a dps. They usually go on to lecture about how this particular vet dungeon doesn't need a healer or a tank when we ask that they not do this. That's the 810 crowd I could do without.
If I want to dungeon fast as possible? I just look for people out of my endgame trial guild. We all need transmuted.

How did you PUG vMHK with a sub 300?

I know it can be done, but it's usually not a PUG when that happens.

starkerealm

svendf wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I once watched a sorc with over 1k CP, hard spamming crystal frags.

I don't think 810 only is the problem.

What´s the problem with crystal frags. Take it easy dude.

starkerealm

Agenericname wrote: »

VampiricByNature wrote: »

I guess I'm a jerk. My friends and I never mind teaching a new player mechanics or helping them complete in the hope that they join the endgame community one day. An 810 still has a high chance of not being an experienced player aiming for min/max type character design. Some 310s are far superior/educated players and I wouldn't want to exclude myself from the chance of meeting them. Recently did a pug vet MHK with a 361 healer and 224 dps. Guess what? Completed no issues. Never judge a book by their CP.

The worst thing for ME is when a person joins dungeon finder as a healer- but is clearly a dps. Or as a tank- also clearly a dps. They usually go on to lecture about how this particular vet dungeon doesn't need a healer or a tank when we ask that they not do this. That's the 810 crowd I could do without.
If I want to dungeon fast as possible? I just look for people out of my endgame trial guild. We all need transmuted.

How did you PUG vMHK with a sub 300?

I know it can be done, but it's usually not a PUG when that happens.

It can be a manually formed PUG. If they're randos, it's a PUG. But, you can't queue for vet DLC dungeons before 300.

Respect4Elders

It's not how much you have, but how you use it.

idk

Respect4Elders wrote: »

It's not how much you have, but how you use it.

Exactly. There are people that at CP 160 can out dps many CP capped players.

Daddysadface

Love the discussion. Keep it going. I still hold the view that their should be an 810+ or what ever is the CP Cap button to allow players to help narrow the pool of potential players for that dungeon or activity. And if someone is 810+, and is a worse player then a 310cp... That person can be helped easier and faster to identify the problem then it would be for the 310+ to grind out another 500+cp in my opinion. Sure there is the rare case of the transfers that come into the game knowing exactly what to do, but it has been my experience more then not that a 810+ will out perform a low cp rank player either it be skill, rotation, or gear.

BigBragg

Champion Points do not equate to game skill. Just saying.

idk

Daddysadface wrote: »

it has been my experience more then not that a 810+ will out perform a low cp rank player either it be skill, rotation, or gear.

This is great. However, I was with a group where the CP capped healer started a vote to kick the barely CP 160 DPS from the group.

Fortunately myself and the other DPS did not support the vote, the healer quit the group, and we went on to three man the vet dungeon in HM without a death. The CP caped DPS off healed and I can do some decent tanking. I highly doubt they were a transfer either.

You see, Zos already determined, with player feedback, what the minimum requirements should be for each dungeon when the GF is used to queue. If you require something more specific Zos already gave you that option by letting you form your own group and should not add more filters because some people cannot be bothered with such a small task.

+1 to what Stark said below. On an alt account I have out dpsed the entire dungeon group as a healer near CP 160 and the entire group was CP capped. CP capped by no means demonstrates skill and player skill trumps both gear and CP.

starkerealm

Daddysadface wrote: »

...it has been my experience more then not that a 810+ will out perform a low cp rank player either it be skill, rotation, or gear.

I don't know. I've seen some pretty terrible 810s, and more than a few coherent lowbies. 810 just means you've been playing for longer, not what you've learned.

Daddysadface

starkerealm wrote: »

Daddysadface wrote: »

...it has been my experience more then not that a 810+ will out perform a low cp rank player either it be skill, rotation, or gear.

I don't know. I've seen some pretty terrible 810s, and more than a few coherent lowbies. 810 just means you've been playing for longer, not what you've learned.

I didn't say there was no sliding scale on skill level of players at 810+. Obviously you will have a very wide range of skill and knowledge at CP Cap player base. But to have multiple people tell of their Glory experiences with people under 810+ also does not show the typical situation or experience, nor does it lean to any fact that a pre 810+ will be more skilled because of a lower cp level and the ability to complete a dungeon while being with people at 810+ or any given allowed cp level for the situation or dungeon.

I would personally use the 810+ on somedays when I just want to play with other "End game" players, and on other days when I have more time or patience or just don't care and want to do anything in a group, obviously I would uncheck it. But, I would like to have that additional option. I am not promoting a Forced 810+ only group finder once CP cap is reached. That is against what I believe should be in place. But like I said, the option if one chooses would be ideal to me.

Daddysadface

idk wrote: »

Daddysadface wrote: »

it has been my experience more then not that a 810+ will out perform a low cp rank player either it be skill, rotation, or gear.

This is great. However, I was with a group where the CP capped healer started a vote to kick the barely CP 160 DPS from the group.

Fortunately myself and the other DPS did not support the vote, the healer quit the group, and we went on to three man the vet dungeon in HM without a death. The CP caped DPS off healed and I can do some decent tanking. I highly doubt they were a transfer either.

You see, Zos already determined, with player feedback, what the minimum requirements should be for each dungeon when the GF is used to queue. If you require something more specific Zos already gave you that option by letting you form your own group and should not add more filters because some people cannot be bothered with such a small task.

+1 to what Stark said below. On an alt account I have out dpsed the entire dungeon group as a healer near CP 160 and the entire group was CP capped. CP capped by no means demonstrates skill and player skill trumps both gear and CP.

I want you to remember, "ZOS" also determined to Sanitize every class into the problem they are having today, so that point is Moot. The option of forming your own group, again is a moot point. It's an mmo, that is a basic fundamental of the game type.

You supporting a decision that lead to a completion seems to me more of dumb luck and it could of very easily went the opposite way. Again Moot point. And you being experienced, playing well on an "Alt account" out dpsing 2 810+ dps qued toons sounds either like total BS, or your luck is terrible as your points of why an option shouldn't be added to the game.

mocap

PUG is full of lulz, don't ruin it. Fun part is all about unpredictable party and gameplay. Sometimes your group can't kill first boss in DoM, sometimes your group blasting through this dungeon with deaths, but without wipes.

Daddysadface

mocap wrote: »

PUG is full of lulz, don't ruin it. Fun part is all about unpredictable party and gameplay. Sometimes your group can't kill first boss in DoM, sometimes your group blasting through this dungeon with deaths, but without wipes.

Again, the point is not to Force 810+ only Player Group Finder, it is only to supplement the existing with an option to enable a player to choose either to run with a more General pool of players, or to limit the pool of players based upon "Experience" or CP. If that translates to a more functional party great, if not, at least the odds of having a more functional team were presented to the player..

FearlessOne_2014

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

The option is already there. Form your own group then que.

I know right. If OP wanted to take it further. OP could form a guild of like minded players.

AndyMac

Agree CP doesn’t count for much. I’ve pugged vet base and DLC dungeons a lot and CP count doesn’t predict how the run will go .

Better to give people a chance - we all had to learn each dungeon we can now rip through.

It quickly becomes obvious that a player may be below where the group needs them to be.

D0PAMINE

Most endgame players are in endgame guilds where they group for endgame content.

Chicharron

Daddysadface wrote: »

Not all of us Veterans enjoy having to teach mechanics and even simple game play in dungeons that we have done hundreds or even thousands of times. Some of us do, but are then forced to carry the newer player through the dungeon, if possible with the newer dungeons having very heavy mechanics involved. I understand console players can explain mechanics using voip, but on pc we typically just type the information into the chat box if needed. This slows progress and makes a fun experience turn into a labor of love as you hope and pray the player can pick up and understand the explanation of the mechanics as it is given.. No, I'm not being "Elitist", I am suggesting an Idea that would actually entice players that normally would never "PUG" to once again give Group Finder a go on slow and boring days, or just to meet other end game players. I have always thought that mixing your "End game" players with "New" players by force will do nothing but aggravate all involved in any instance, dungeon or situation. I am sure the new players also don't enjoy having to be through dungeons that they have never seen before at a brake neck speed or kicked from group. ~ Just a thought. DDSF

in Stormhaven, Mournhold or Grahtwood.

LFG vet hm, quick run

It has never failed to me.

Att1Tude

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg&t=203s Just put this on and carry your team. There is no other options.

InvictusApollo

Daddysadface wrote: »

Not all of us Veterans enjoy having to teach mechanics and even simple game play in dungeons that we have done hundreds or even thousands of times. Some of us do, but are then forced to carry the newer player through the dungeon, if possible with the newer dungeons having very heavy mechanics involved. I understand console players can explain mechanics using voip, but on pc we typically just type the information into the chat box if needed. This slows progress and makes a fun experience turn into a labor of love as you hope and pray the player can pick up and understand the explanation of the mechanics as it is given.. No, I'm not being "Elitist", I am suggesting an Idea that would actually entice players that normally would never "PUG" to once again give Group Finder a go on slow and boring days, or just to meet other end game players. I have always thought that mixing your "End game" players with "New" players by force will do nothing but aggravate all involved in any instance, dungeon or situation. I am sure the new players also don't enjoy having to be through dungeons that they have never seen before at a brake neck speed or kicked from group. ~ Just a thought. DDSF

I feel the same. Patience has it's limits. And the worst thing is when newbies feel entitled to be tutored and carried and demand it! I've had players like that and it was horrible.

Partomax wrote: »

If you can't carry 3 people in a normal dungeon I don't think you're as good as you think you are buddy.

Nine peoiple agreed with you which means that there are at least ten people who are unable read with comprehension. OP stated "new dungeons" which means dlc dungeons. And those on vet and sometimes even on normal, require some skill from players - all players.

Darsaga

At best I could give you is saying around 300ish. That way they may have the basics down. You wouldn’t believe the 810s I see that look like they just got off the boat in AD.

With that said.........

There is no OG dungeon in this game you shouldn’t be able to breeze through on your own if your as good as you seem to be acting. Even the DLC non HMs you just need a mediocre tank with you, or you tank it and let the PUGs have some fun.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

Holy Cow...this is the 1st proper thread I see made this month!...I totally agree with this! we should have cp selectors for each level gaps while we queue and as long as we have cp system! so 1-50/cp 10-400/cp810...sure this doesnt actually keeps u safe from the unexperienced and unknown but still.

Alienoutlaw

we all had to learn somewhere, and if it wasnt for more experienced players helping us through the harder content letting us make mistakes we wouldnt be the high level players we are now, i'm sure everyone remembers their 1st vet dungeon or that one great group that helped and supported them instead hitting the kick button. be more like that group take the time to pay it forward and hopefully they will do the same, thats how we grow as a community, if you dont want to do that then group with like minded ppl and just steer clear of the GF then you wont have that problem

mikemacon

LOL. No.