It wouldn't be so bad if it can be blocked or only scale off caster's attacks.
People need to clarify which type of Templar they're talking about...If the current PTS patch went live, I'm reasonably confident that Stamina Templar would be veritable gods in no-CP BGs. Spam Jabs with its new 100% uptime on a 40% snare, then use the recently buffed Javelin to set up a burst combo with PotL and Onslaught. That's extraordinarily powerful burst with a CC and very little downtime required between attempts. Plus, Jabs damage is the only spammable I've seen that can potentially compare with Dizzying Swing's damage on live.dots nerfed = templar do not have enough pressure next patch if they dont get a slight buff. give something they can use ffs
I basically made this exact statement in another thread about 10 minutes ago. I would amend your statement to be Hybrid templars in terms of non-cp pvp. New moon acolyte paired with axiom will give a very large total of both weapon and spell damage to all class based skills, being non-cp it overcomes the normal failure of hybrids in pvp of having to split champ points up. This will give templars access to the best burst heal in the game the longest duration and best heal over time skill in the game a hard hitting ranged execute that can't be dodged, the hardest hitting and best utility spammable in the game with bitting jabs (major savagery minor prot and a snare). all while having the mobility of a stamina player and the ability to split resource spending making the most difficult part of non-cp pvp sustaining that much easier.
ExistingRug61 wrote: »Backlash stored damage being able to crit breaks the consistency all other skills have to prevent double dipping of crit chance.
What if instead of the backlash damage critting, it is changed so instead the backlash cap has the ability to crit. This would still allow backlash to crit in a way so it can benefit from crit like other skills do, but it also means that crit damage that contributes to the stored damage won't be multiplied by the crit modifier again if backlash crits so it can't double dip.
ExistingRug61 wrote: »I made this suggestion in the templar feedback thread, but guess it might get more discussion here:ExistingRug61 wrote: »Backlash stored damage being able to crit breaks the consistency all other skills have to prevent double dipping of crit chance.
What if instead of the backlash damage critting, it is changed so instead the backlash cap has the ability to crit. This would still allow backlash to crit in a way so it can benefit from crit like other skills do, but it also means that crit damage that contributes to the stored damage won't be multiplied by the crit modifier again if backlash crits so it can't double dip.
ExistingRug61 wrote: »I made this suggestion in the templar feedback thread, but guess it might get more discussion here:ExistingRug61 wrote: »Backlash stored damage being able to crit breaks the consistency all other skills have to prevent double dipping of crit chance.
What if instead of the backlash damage critting, it is changed so instead the backlash cap has the ability to crit. This would still allow backlash to crit in a way so it can benefit from crit like other skills do, but it also means that crit damage that contributes to the stored damage won't be multiplied by the crit modifier again if backlash crits so it can't double dip.
The cap critting would be the same issue as a capped stored damage critting. Meaning if you hit the cap, it's still going to be the same damage.
This benefits it as an Xv1 tool IMO as it's easy to hit the cap there but it's hard to hit it as just the templar alone.
Darkmage1337 wrote: »Darkmage1337 wrote: »Backlash (Purifying Light IV):
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: 28 meters
Duration: 6 seconds
Cost: 1,480 Magicka
"Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight to doom an enemy, dealing 4,245 Magic Damage to them and copying all their damage taken for 6 second and releasing 20% of it as additional Magic Damage to them.
Maximum copied damage: 21,947.
When the effect ends, a pool of sunlight remains attached to the enemy, healing you and nearby allies for 2,070 Health every 2 seconds for 6 second."
So, my idea would be to remove the initial Magic Damage (4,245 in my case) completely and add that value, or half of it, to the Maximum Copied Damage value. (Obviously Tooltip numbers will vary based on everyone's own build, passives, active buffs, food buff, etc.)
Currently, Backlash/Purifying Light functions in numerous categories as a weird spammable (initial damage), passive debuff (copied damage effect), damage over time (copied damage effect), high burst skill (copied damage explosion), and a heal over time (end effect). As far as ZOS's 'ability-audits' go and their actions of streamlining abilities into being super-stupid-simple (Dizzying Swing, etc.), Backlash/Purifying Light still misses that mark of simplicity.
The primary purpose, appeal, and effect of Backlash/Purifying Light is the copied damage value. Not the initial damage hit nor the heal over time secondary effect. Nor the Minor Breach and Minor Fracture for the Power of the Light Stamina version.
It has already been said and noted numerous times that multiple Backlashes from different Templars on the same target at the same time override one another, which diminishes the value of the skill in group play with multiple DPS Templars (regardless of Mag or Stam).
SO, why not increase the value of Backlash in solo play and/or PvP by removing the initial damage tooltip value entirely and instead add the initial damage tooltip value to the total copied damage tooltip value so that Backlash (+morphs) can be successfully used from stealth, without breaking stealth, just like Nightblade's Marked Target.
The Magicka Templar's rotation would look something like this: Start in Stealth > Apply Purifying Light on Target > next ability crits (breaking stealth), so it should be a high-damage burst ability to help reach the damage copied cap > followed by xyz (the rest of the DPS/burst rotation) until Backlash explodes.
The Stamina Templar's rotation would look something like this: Start in Stealth > Apply Power of the Light on Target > next ability crits (breaking stealth), so it should be a high-damage burst ability to help reach the damage copied cap > followed by xyz (the rest of the DPS/burst rotation) until Backlash explodes.
My point is about the set-up and the execution. Backlash currently does too many things at the same time -- it has an initial damage component, a damage over time / copied damage component, and a heal over time or defense debuff component, depending on the morph. Plus, the ability itself cannot crit and cannot be stacked or used in conjunction with other Templar effectively. All of these things combined together into one ability make it less reliable and thus ineffective.
TL;DR: Allow Backlash to be used from stealth (and not take you out of stealth) by removing the initial damage value from Backlash and adding that initial damage value to the total copied damage value to make up for the initial damage loss. Again, this would allow for a better set-up/execution of the ability for solo-play and PvP. The ability already barely fuctions correctly in group-play when multiple Templars are present, so why not make it a little better with this small, easy change?
I love the ability, and both morphs, which I use on different characters, but I just wish Backlash would be slightly changed in this way to be more user-friendly for everyone. @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno
If you want to attack from stealth, just use a nightblade.
Magicka Templar, Tankplar, and Stamina Nightblade are my most-played characters and classes. Lol.
I'm also Former Emp on both my Magicka Templar and Stamina Nightblade...
Anyways, my suggestion on the skill would simply make it more viable in many situations, allowing Templars to control the first-hit / start of a fight, regardless if it is an enemy player in PvP or a singular trash mob or boss in PvE. It is literally no different than Nightblade or any other class that attacks from stealth before a big burst combo. Templars have always been neglected when it came to DPS, for the past 5 years, at least.
Darkmage1337 wrote: »Darkmage1337 wrote: »Backlash (Purifying Light IV):
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: 28 meters
Duration: 6 seconds
Cost: 1,480 Magicka
"Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight to doom an enemy, dealing 4,245 Magic Damage to them and copying all their damage taken for 6 second and releasing 20% of it as additional Magic Damage to them.
Maximum copied damage: 21,947.
When the effect ends, a pool of sunlight remains attached to the enemy, healing you and nearby allies for 2,070 Health every 2 seconds for 6 second."
So, my idea would be to remove the initial Magic Damage (4,245 in my case) completely and add that value, or half of it, to the Maximum Copied Damage value. (Obviously Tooltip numbers will vary based on everyone's own build, passives, active buffs, food buff, etc.)
Currently, Backlash/Purifying Light functions in numerous categories as a weird spammable (initial damage), passive debuff (copied damage effect), damage over time (copied damage effect), high burst skill (copied damage explosion), and a heal over time (end effect). As far as ZOS's 'ability-audits' go and their actions of streamlining abilities into being super-stupid-simple (Dizzying Swing, etc.), Backlash/Purifying Light still misses that mark of simplicity.
The primary purpose, appeal, and effect of Backlash/Purifying Light is the copied damage value. Not the initial damage hit nor the heal over time secondary effect. Nor the Minor Breach and Minor Fracture for the Power of the Light Stamina version.
It has already been said and noted numerous times that multiple Backlashes from different Templars on the same target at the same time override one another, which diminishes the value of the skill in group play with multiple DPS Templars (regardless of Mag or Stam).
SO, why not increase the value of Backlash in solo play and/or PvP by removing the initial damage tooltip value entirely and instead add the initial damage tooltip value to the total copied damage tooltip value so that Backlash (+morphs) can be successfully used from stealth, without breaking stealth, just like Nightblade's Marked Target.
The Magicka Templar's rotation would look something like this: Start in Stealth > Apply Purifying Light on Target > next ability crits (breaking stealth), so it should be a high-damage burst ability to help reach the damage copied cap > followed by xyz (the rest of the DPS/burst rotation) until Backlash explodes.
The Stamina Templar's rotation would look something like this: Start in Stealth > Apply Power of the Light on Target > next ability crits (breaking stealth), so it should be a high-damage burst ability to help reach the damage copied cap > followed by xyz (the rest of the DPS/burst rotation) until Backlash explodes.
My point is about the set-up and the execution. Backlash currently does too many things at the same time -- it has an initial damage component, a damage over time / copied damage component, and a heal over time or defense debuff component, depending on the morph. Plus, the ability itself cannot crit and cannot be stacked or used in conjunction with other Templar effectively. All of these things combined together into one ability make it less reliable and thus ineffective.
TL;DR: Allow Backlash to be used from stealth (and not take you out of stealth) by removing the initial damage value from Backlash and adding that initial damage value to the total copied damage value to make up for the initial damage loss. Again, this would allow for a better set-up/execution of the ability for solo-play and PvP. The ability already barely fuctions correctly in group-play when multiple Templars are present, so why not make it a little better with this small, easy change?
I love the ability, and both morphs, which I use on different characters, but I just wish Backlash would be slightly changed in this way to be more user-friendly for everyone. @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno
If you want to attack from stealth, just use a nightblade.
Magicka Templar, Tankplar, and Stamina Nightblade are my most-played characters and classes. Lol.
I'm also Former Emp on both my Magicka Templar and Stamina Nightblade...
Anyways, my suggestion on the skill would simply make it more viable in many situations, allowing Templars to control the first-hit / start of a fight, regardless if it is an enemy player in PvP or a singular trash mob or boss in PvE. It is literally no different than Nightblade or any other class that attacks from stealth before a big burst combo. Templars have always been neglected when it came to DPS, for the past 5 years, at least.
No, I needed that first hit for something....I can't remember for what since I removed the skill and don't use it anymore...
Darkmage1337 wrote: »Does Backlash still remove you from stealth when you cast it on enemies? Unlike Nightblade's Marked Target, which can be used while in stealth and doesn't take you out of stealth when you cast it.
Backlash (+morphs) would make for a better burst / combo-starter skill if it functioned more like Marked Target and could be used from stealth.
Especially when many Templar class skills have casting-times or are channeled.
aetherial_heavenn wrote: »You don't understand, potl is hitting for more damage than ultimates from people who actually invest into dealing damage, while the guy using potl could probably not even kill mudcrabs in under 2 minutes.aetherial_heavenn wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »It's unfair to templar tanks or healers that want to help their team if it only tracks Templar damage.
No it's not. Want to do damage? Be a DD
Want to be healed? ...go roll a healer. Fairs fair. No vigour for you.
sorry you lost your sense of humour. Try cleansing it. :P
It needs 6 seconds to charge up, so you have plenty of time anticipating and to prepare. If you are low health and you see backlash nearly going off, then you did something wrong, because everyone knows the highly visible pillar of light is dangerous.
It is limited damage- the max is capped. It takes time to go off. It does not cc or prevent you from cleansing or even healing through it. It can be mitigated.
If you cannot cleanse a huge swirly thing over your head while that damage stacks because you don't have the magicka, or do not run with a healer or purger, to get rid of it for you, over 6 seconds, that is your choice. Just as if I choose not to run enough stamina on my magicka healer to block and roll dodge and break free from a zergs multiple CCs, that is my choice. Unlike dot and CC stacking or multi ult bombing from stealth, or NB ganks, it is highly visible, and it still does a specific limited amount of damage which can be purged well before it goes boom.
It cannot be stacked by multiple players. In fact if it is stacked by different players the explosion doesn't go off. So it is not even a good xv1 skill for zerglings.It needs a coordinated group to copy only their damage and not be overwritten. I suspect you are a 1v Xer who thinks they shouldn't die when multiple players stack damage on them.....
I really do not see the problem except it is available to support/healers and doesn't scale off spell / weapon damage. You don't like that we can buff the groups damage using our main stat pool? Too bad. That's our job.
Lol Not getting much DOT damage in 6 second for 20 % of that damage to hurt.IronWooshu wrote: »With a good portion of templars damage coming from dots and them being nerfed. It wont be so easy to hit the maximum modifier anymore. This was one of the reasons why Templars worked so well in the dot meta.
universal_wrath wrote: »Darkmage1337 wrote: »Does Backlash still remove you from stealth when you cast it on enemies? Unlike Nightblade's Marked Target, which can be used while in stealth and doesn't take you out of stealth when you cast it.
Backlash (+morphs) would make for a better burst / combo-starter skill if it functioned more like Marked Target and could be used from stealth.
Especially when many Templar class skills have casting-times or are channeled.
It does remove yoy from stealth, because it deals initial dmg when casted unlike mark. It did not used to agro before when it did not have dmg on intial cast.
Darkmage1337 wrote: »Backlash (Purifying Light IV):
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: 28 meters
Duration: 6 seconds
Cost: 1,480 Magicka
"Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight to doom an enemy, dealing 4,245 Magic Damage to them and copying all their damage taken for 6 second and releasing 20% of it as additional Magic Damage to them.
Maximum copied damage: 21,947.
When the effect ends, a pool of sunlight remains attached to the enemy, healing you and nearby allies for 2,070 Health every 2 seconds for 6 second."
So, my idea would be to remove the initial Magic Damage (4,245 in my case) completely and add that value, or half of it, to the Maximum Copied Damage value. (Obviously Tooltip numbers will vary based on everyone's own build, passives, active buffs, food buff, etc.)
Currently, Backlash/Purifying Light functions in numerous categories as a weird spammable (initial damage), passive debuff (copied damage effect), damage over time (copied damage effect), high burst skill (copied damage explosion), and a heal over time (end effect). As far as ZOS's 'ability-audits' go and their actions of streamlining abilities into being super-stupid-simple (Dizzying Swing, etc.), Backlash/Purifying Light still misses that mark of simplicity.
The primary purpose, appeal, and effect of Backlash/Purifying Light is the copied damage value. Not the initial damage hit nor the heal over time secondary effect. Nor the Minor Breach and Minor Fracture for the Power of the Light Stamina version.
It has already been said and noted numerous times that multiple Backlashes from different Templars on the same target at the same time override one another, which diminishes the value of the skill in group play with multiple DPS Templars (regardless of Mag or Stam).
SO, why not increase the value of Backlash in solo play and/or PvP by removing the initial damage tooltip value entirely and instead add the initial damage tooltip value to the total copied damage tooltip value so that Backlash (+morphs) can be successfully used from stealth, without breaking stealth, just like Nightblade's Marked Target.
The Magicka Templar's rotation would look something like this: Start in Stealth > Apply Purifying Light on Target > next ability crits (breaking stealth), so it should be a high-damage burst ability to help reach the damage copied cap > followed by xyz (the rest of the DPS/burst rotation) until Backlash explodes.
The Stamina Templar's rotation would look something like this: Start in Stealth > Apply Power of the Light on Target > next ability crits (breaking stealth), so it should be a high-damage burst ability to help reach the damage copied cap > followed by xyz (the rest of the DPS/burst rotation) until Backlash explodes.
My point is about the set-up and the execution. Backlash currently does too many things at the same time -- it has an initial damage component, a damage over time / copied damage component, and a heal over time or defense debuff component, depending on the morph. Plus, the ability itself cannot crit and cannot be stacked or used in conjunction with other Templar effectively. All of these things combined together into one ability make it less reliable and thus ineffective.
TL;DR: Allow Backlash to be used from stealth (and not take you out of stealth) by removing the initial damage value from Backlash and adding that initial damage value to the total copied damage value to make up for the initial damage loss. Again, this would allow for a better set-up/execution of the ability for solo-play and PvP. The ability already barely fuctions correctly in group-play when multiple Templars are present, so why not make it a little better with this small, easy change?
I love the ability, and both morphs, which I use on different characters, but I just wish Backlash would be slightly changed in this way to be more user-friendly for everyone. @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »"Templar
Dawn’s Wrath
Backlash:
This ability and its morphs will now only store damage dealt from the caster of the ability, rather than anyone who hits the afflicted target. This was done to offset some of the staggering power (of the Light) the ability could bring in group situations, where low damage builds could apply the ability and generate free real estate from their allies’ contribution. Now, you have to put in the fervor to get the full power of these abilities.
Fixed an issue where these abilities would conflict with one another if more than one player cast the same morph of the ability on a target."
Darkmage1337 wrote: »The Elder Scrolls Online v5.2.2 (PTS): https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/495873/ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »"Templar
Dawn’s Wrath
Backlash:
This ability and its morphs will now only store damage dealt from the caster of the ability, rather than anyone who hits the afflicted target. This was done to offset some of the staggering power (of the Light) the ability could bring in group situations, where low damage builds could apply the ability and generate free real estate from their allies’ contribution. Now, you have to put in the fervor to get the full power of these abilities.
Fixed an issue where these abilities would conflict with one another if more than one player cast the same morph of the ability on a target."
Darkmage1337 wrote: »The Elder Scrolls Online v5.2.2 (PTS): https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/495873/ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »"Templar
Dawn’s Wrath
Backlash:
This ability and its morphs will now only store damage dealt from the caster of the ability, rather than anyone who hits the afflicted target. This was done to offset some of the staggering power (of the Light) the ability could bring in group situations, where low damage builds could apply the ability and generate free real estate from their allies’ contribution. Now, you have to put in the fervor to get the full power of these abilities.
Fixed an issue where these abilities would conflict with one another if more than one player cast the same morph of the ability on a target."
Seems reasonable at first glance.