Backlash Changes, your thoughts?

LuxLunae · October 2019

It will only copy the damage of the user who casts it.

As a stamplar, I don't really care for backlash. I don't have enough stam to make it even viable for my build. (I think it says like 11k or less damage copied ...) So that change was worthless to me.
It might hurt PVE a little bit though since DoTs have been lowered.

Crit build is the only way to fill it up...so people saying that "boom baby" was op, that guaranteed crit is not really a buff but not really a nerf since most Templars, to make that viable will be running crit now.

Casterial · October 2019

It removes group play from the ability entirely, but as a solo player I don't care

As a stamplar backlash is one of our best skills mine in U23 hits 7-8k on PTS hits 10+k.

Tooltip is 18-25k

And no, you kinda gotta get better at stamplar if you're saying you can't fill it up...

Austinseph1 · October 2019

The thing is it was either this or removing the crit because the ability could already hit high numbers. Imagine in PvP being hit with a a delayed hit that took 80% of your hp bar that wasn’t even an ulti. A good change? Maybe. But a change of some sort was necessary, this allows you to shoot for good numbers without being able to rely on another person to do it for you.

LuxLunae · October 2019

i never said I couldn't fill it up. I said it's not viable for me as my tool tip sits at 9-11k...so I don't bother slotting it.

However, a guarantee fill up will be through crit damage.

I would also like to add that crit heals are better than physical and spell defense at a certain point.

I dislike it a lot when people come here thinking that they are the best just to find out they posted vids of them fighing noobs who were just in pvp for an event.

Casterial · October 2019

Austinseph1 wrote: »

The thing is it was either this or removing the crit because the ability could already hit high numbers. Imagine in PvP being hit with a a delayed hit that took 80% of your hp bar that wasn’t even an ulti. A good change? Maybe. But a change of some sort was necessary, this allows you to shoot for good numbers without being able to rely on another person to do it for you.

imo, overall this is a good change. I have almost 7k wep damage to hit 7-8k when fully filled, so now it critting keeps it in line with say NB assassin's will which can crit up to 15k.

Asardes · October 2019

They also did it because he ability bugged out most of the time and didn't apply any damage due to very high input. If the healer ran it in a trial group for the resistance debuff it would get saturated within 0.1s or so and miss the timer. They hinted at this change in the first PTS iteration.

Zevrro · October 2019

Exactly what I thought they'd do with it. They were told that it being able to crit was too strong so instead of removing the crit they tried to find ways for the crit to remain but be balanced.

casparian · October 2019

It's something many small scalers have been asking for for quite a long time. It's a buff unless you play exclusively large scale or play a tankplar.

Vapirko · October 2019

This is an absolutely fantastic change from a PvP perspective. Honestly this is the first time in a while I’ve seen a change and gone wow, nice job. It gives the individual player more power while nerfing big groups who just popped backlash and let all their light attack spam do the work. Nice job ZOS.

Also some nice changes for Mag DK.

Darkmage1337 · October 2019

The Elder Scrolls Online v5.2.2 (PTS): https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/495873/

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

"Templar
Dawn’s Wrath
Backlash:
This ability and its morphs will now only store damage dealt from the caster of the ability, rather than anyone who hits the afflicted target. This was done to offset some of the staggering power (of the Light) the ability could bring in group situations, where low damage builds could apply the ability and generate free real estate from their allies’ contribution. Now, you have to put in the fervor to get the full power of these abilities.
Fixed an issue where these abilities would conflict with one another if more than one player cast the same morph of the ability on a target."

technohic · October 2019

At minimum, its a 20% damage increase of what you have done to the target whether you fill it up or not. It seems like a fair move to me as there is a lot of heal bot utility in templar already and that takes some away from that by not just copying group damage and attempting to spam RD from the back.

ealdwin · October 2019

I don't hate it... but I don't like it either. It's one of those changes that seems very pvp focused with little consideration for the effect it will have on pve. Templars as a class are built around a sizable amount of skills with built in group utility, so this change feels odd.

If it was doing too much damage, then it could have been changed to copy 15% of damage or decrease the damage cap. But to remove the group utility just feels odd.

JinMori · October 2019

It's a very good change in my opinion.

Why should other people have an effect on how much damage you are doing using your normal rotation? Aside from skills that are considered support skills, which backlash isn't, it's a dps skill.

This was mostly a problem in pvp.

Pretty decent changes in this patch, but overall not enough to get me back in the game, the initial patches are just really bad and the still didn't fix the major problems so.... Yea i'll pass.

Basically if you are doing high damage, you will still get powerful hits, but you will no longer be able to get damage for literally nothing thanks to your group.

Afterall you can now crit with this ability.

To understand just how stupid this ability was: it wasn't even worth using in a pve rotation and it's supposed to be a dps skill, but you would get more damage if you didn't use it, while in pvp, you could use it, and do free burst damage for nothing, if you thought this skill was good like it was before, i have no words honestly.

I will call out devs when they make really stupid changes, but since i'm fair i will also say when they do a good job.

Nemesis7884 · October 2019

absolutely horrible change... makes the skill imo basically useless...

and removing group utility from a skill in an mmo...

honestly more often than not i can only facepalm at the decisions this combat team makes

i am really sorry i am and it pains me - but this combat team is just horrible...they are simply doing a bad job - please switch people - they are not good at doing what they are doing

Darkmage1337 · October 2019

It looks like a fair change, on paper.
It is a similar scenario from when Templars could not use the Repentance ability on the same corpses/targets, way back when.

Vapirko · October 2019

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

absolutely horrible change... makes the skill imo basically useless...

and removing group utility from a skill in an mmo...

honestly more often than not i can only facepalm at the decisions this combat team makes

i am really sorry i am and it pains me - but this combat team is just horrible...they are simply doing a bad job - please switch people - they are not good at doing what they are doing

No it’s a great change because it addresses some of the issues with the fact that Templars can do it all while still speccing for healing/defense. This might make PotL worth using as a dps and as I said before it’s great for PvP. It’s one of the few good changes.

Barbaran · October 2019

A proper build can fill it on its own very easily, the Crit is too much

Canned_Apples · October 2019

this is one of those pvp vs. pve changes.

Arciris · October 2019

Terrible change for PvE.

Awesome change for PvP,

A superb example on why we need PvP and PvE balance to be separate.

JinMori · October 2019

Arciris wrote: »

Terrible change for PvE.

Awesome change for PvP,

A superb example on why we need PvP and PvE balance to be separate.

It changes nothing in pve, unless you are terrible, i agree with separating pvp and pve, but this is a bad example.

HankTwo · October 2019

Arciris wrote: »

Terrible change for PvE.

Awesome change for PvP,

A superb example on why we need PvP and PvE balance to be separate.

It made the skill worse for healers which is a good thing, imo

AMeanOne · October 2019

Excellent change

Arciris · October 2019

JinMori wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

Terrible change for PvE.

Awesome change for PvP,

A superb example on why we need PvP and PvE balance to be separate.

It changes nothing in pve, unless you are terrible, i agree with separating pvp and pve, but this is a bad example.

It changes everything for healers and tanks in 4 men groups PvE.
Not only PoTJ applies a debuff that is not that common (Minor breach and fracture) which adds to the value of the support role for both tanks and healers, it also increased group DPS, which is the most important measure in this game.
Now tanks and pure healers (for the content where they are still needed) will have a big chunk of their DPS contribution removed.

susmitds · October 2019

Arciris wrote: »

Terrible change for PvE.

Awesome change for PvP,

A superb example on why we need PvP and PvE balance to be separate.

It is a buff for DPS builds in both PvE and PvP, thanks to the crit buff. It is a nerf to any magplar non-DPS build, why is exactly why it is a great change cause if you are not putting in the effort yourself, you should not have auto damage.

Arciris · October 2019

susmitds wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

Terrible change for PvE.

Awesome change for PvP,

A superb example on why we need PvP and PvE balance to be separate.

It is a buff for DPS builds in both PvE and PvP, thanks to the crit buff. It is a nerf to any magplar non-DPS build, why is exactly why it is a great change cause if you are not putting in the effort yourself, you should not have auto damage.

And you are part of the skill police to say what we should or should not do/have?
Support roles should contribute to group success (aka DPS in this game), why remove a tool that allows them to do just that?
(and, just saying, but any DoT damage is auto damage you pnly need to "put the effort" into by casting them Once every x seconds, just like... oh wait, just like PoTL)

Arciris · October 2019

HankTwo wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

Terrible change for PvE.

Awesome change for PvP,

A superb example on why we need PvP and PvE balance to be separate.

It made the skill worse for healers which is a good thing, imo

Why making a skill worse for healers can be a good thing? (talking only PvE here)
Is the game favoring too much the healer role? Oh wait, it's the opposite, healers aren't needed for nothing except trials basically.

Kadoin · October 2019

I thought the utility on purifying light was the heal and not the damage. If anything, templars should not be complaining as most skills that heal and do damage have had worse "nerfs."

Nemesis7884 · October 2019

i can see the change for pvp but why not making it pvp specific then?? why *** PVE once again for pvp

tell me one reason to slot either morph in pve... ?? skill just became pointless in pve - nobody will slot it anymore

Cinbri · October 2019

It is long-requested potentially good chance that zos turned into actually bad change.

Zelos · October 2019

Casterial wrote: »

Austinseph1 wrote: »

The thing is it was either this or removing the crit because the ability could already hit high numbers. Imagine in PvP being hit with a a delayed hit that took 80% of your hp bar that wasn’t even an ulti. A good change? Maybe. But a change of some sort was necessary, this allows you to shoot for good numbers without being able to rely on another person to do it for you.

imo, overall this is a good change. I have almost 7k wep damage to hit 7-8k when fully filled, so now it critting keeps it in line with say NB assassin's will which can crit up to 15k.

Bad argument, assassins will is dodgeable very easily with a loud audio cue and a 1 second delay time even at point blank. Where is my counterplay to getting hit by a 12k crit backlash I cant do anything about? Unblockable, undodgeable, uncloakable:)

Arciris · October 2019

Kadoin wrote: »

I thought the utility on purifying light was the heal and not the damage. If anything, templars should not be complaining as most skills that heal and do damage have had worse "nerfs."

decent healers didn't slot Purifying, but the stam morph of it, to provide both Minor Breach and Fracture to the group