Taking your idea, why not just make a new competitive PvE zone with it?

All developer resources for Cyrodiil need to be put towards PvP improvements for Cyrodiil, not PvE

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its a transparent excuse to open a version of Cyrodiil with no PVP, one that makes it substantially easier to acquire rewards from quests, delves, overland skyshards, and fishing. 1

Its a transparent attempt to make it possible to farm AP (in the 2nd example, anyways) and end of campaign rewards without entering a PVP zone. 2

Seriously, I say this as someone who hated the thought of PVP and who went into Cyrodiil to fish anyways: If you want the rewards of Cyrodiil, just prepare for PVP, give it your best shot, and persevere. 3

I chose to address this post not because it disagrees with me (I value input for and against my idea), but to ask you if you read the post, or if you just assumed a lot by the title?

1: It is braindead easy to get every achievement from cyro. I saw a grand total of 6 enemy players in the single day it took me to do all the quests. Skyshards are the exact same way. Delves you may encounter some resistance due to the 10% AP buff, but only along traveled lanes and only if there would be traffic there (delves between pvp hot spots that are contested at the time).

2: I really have to wonder if you read it all all. Behold the (unedited) original post that specifically capitalizes the fact that these events SHOULD NOT GIVE AP. At each point I made it abundantly clear.

3: Already have my achieves on several characters thanks.

TL;DR of this response: Attack my proposal, not me please.

DocFrost72 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its a transparent excuse to open a version of Cyrodiil with no PVP, one that makes it substantially easier to acquire rewards from quests, delves, overland skyshards, and fishing. 1

Its a transparent attempt to make it possible to farm AP (in the 2nd example, anyways) and end of campaign rewards without entering a PVP zone. 2

Seriously, I say this as someone who hated the thought of PVP and who went into Cyrodiil to fish anyways: If you want the rewards of Cyrodiil, just prepare for PVP, give it your best shot, and persevere. 3

I chose to address this post not because it disagrees with me (I value input for and against my idea), but to ask you if you read the post, or if you just assumed a lot by the title?

1: It is braindead easy to get every achievement from cyro. I saw a grand total of 6 enemy players in the single day it took me to do all the quests. Skyshards are the exact same way. Delves you may encounter some resistance due to the 10% AP buff, but only along traveled lanes and only if there would be traffic there (delves between pvp hot spots that are contested at the time).

2: I really have to wonder if you read it all all. Behold the (unedited) original post that specifically capitalizes the fact that these events SHOULD NOT GIVE AP. At each point I made it abundantly clear.

3: Already have my achieves on several characters thanks.

TL;DR of this response: Attack my proposal, not me please.

1. One of the reasons I'm concerned with the difficulty of obtaining rewards is that this is one method ZOS uses to get players to try out Cyrodiil. Its why I tried out Cyrodiil - I wanted those Cyrodiil fish, and died several times to players while doing it.

One of the hallmarks of "PVE-only Cyrodiil" zone pleas is making it vastly easier to obtain rewards because players won't face, say, opposing players while riding to and fro, or, personal example here, getting ganked on the side of Lake Rumare.

That desire for ease of getting rewards especially apparent if you want to keep the Event rewards for the Anniversary Dailies and Midyear Mayhem in this "PVE only" version of Cyrodiil. Those quests are short and have very little threats because the threat is intended to come from enemy players. Any PVE-only Cyrodiil would need to have the difficulty increased to be on par with other PVE-only dailies once you remove the threat of enemy players.

I'm fine with a PVE-Only version of Cyrodiil...IF ALL the rewards that ZOS intended to be obtained with the threat of PVP are removed. Skyshards, quest achievements, event rewards, AP, fish, etc. If players want those rewards? Prepare for PVP, give it your best shot, and persevere.

Your PVE only version can have its own, separate, reward table, but don't dulplicate anything that's intended to be obtained from the PVP-enabled zone.

2. My apologies, I do believe I confused you for Dusk_Coven, who's idea right above my response does mention AP. Hence that parenthetical note. I thought I double-checked names, but clearly not well enough. Sorry!

3. Again, sorry, speaking to the "general you" here. As noted by others, the idea of PVE only Cyrodiil is not new, and very typically used as a "I don't want to play in PVP-enabled Cyrodiil, but I don't want to miss out on the rewards" cop out. Even if you don't intended your idea to work out that way, that's effectively what it is for players who want to avoid PVP and get rewards/ achievements anyway.

So to be clear:
1. I would only accept a PVE only Cyrodiil zone if it grants NONE of the rewards or achievements obtained through the PVP-enabled zone. Cyrodiil is designed as a base game PVP-enabled zone and ZOS intended those rewards and achievements to be obtained with the threat of PVP.

Separate rewards/achievements are fine, as befits a separate zone.


2. Assuming it were going to be implemented as a separate zone with completely separate rewards/achievements, I don't think this is a very viable idea for a new PVE zone anyway Seeing as how previous group zones have failed, it would be enormously complicated for ZOS to design a Cyrodiil-sized battle zone that was engaging month after month, and it really doesnt fit with the types of content they are producing on a quarterly basis. So I don't suspect that ZOS would ever do a separate zone like this.

idk wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its a transparent excuse to open a version of Cyrodiil with no PVP, one that makes it substantially easier to acquire rewards from quests, delves, overland skyshards, and fishing. 1

Its a transparent attempt to make it possible to farm AP (in the 2nd example, anyways) and end of campaign rewards without entering a PVP zone. 2

Seriously, I say this as someone who hated the thought of PVP and who went into Cyrodiil to fish anyways: If you want the rewards of Cyrodiil, just prepare for PVP, give it your best shot, and persevere. 3

I chose to address this post not because it disagrees with me (I value input for and against my idea), but to ask you if you read the post, or if you just assumed a lot by the title?

1: It is braindead easy to get every achievement from cyro. I saw a grand total of 6 enemy players in the single day it took me to do all the quests. Skyshards are the exact same way. Delves you may encounter some resistance due to the 10% AP buff, but only along traveled lanes and only if there would be traffic there (delves between pvp hot spots that are contested at the time).

2: I really have to wonder if you read it all all. Behold the (unedited) original post that specifically capitalizes the fact that these events SHOULD NOT GIVE AP. At each point I made it abundantly clear.

3: Already have my achieves on several characters thanks.

TL;DR of this response: Attack my proposal, not me please.

I find it odd that found it necessary to question if they actually read your OP twice. That is two of the 4 points you attempted to make. I find it even more odd because he tripped on one small detail, AP, when everything else is clearly an attempt to make an identical version that is PvE only (hopefully vet HM trial challenge level and not brain dead easy junk). Considering you are talking about campaign rewards and such the lack of AP is clearly irrelevant because you plan to offer something else in exchange though maybe not a currency earned while you go.

Have you read your own OP?

Further, you also point out twice about achievements in your reply yet you do not mention jack about that in your OP so it is odd that you seem to think that is an issue. It would not be an issue if you removed all of those achievements from your idea. As it is, yes, it does look like a clear attempt to make a PvE Cyrodiil and as I pointed out previously, it is not unique.

Eh, I'll fess up on the AP goof.

The OP was really clear on the NO AP thing.

Its just that the poster above me mentioned AP rewards, and me, in a moment of spectacularly failing my spot check to recognize that two posters who's names start with "D" are not in fact the same person...I screwed up.

So the OP was right to call me out on that one, and I appreciate the clarification!

There is already 27 PvE zones and Imperial City has a bit of that concept.

@idk My tone could have used some work, and I own up to that. One thing that I didn't feel needed to be said is that VaranisArano's third point (the one about previously tried adventure zone craglorn) was absolutely focused on my idea, and not on my character. It I good feedback worth considering, and thus was left out so I could reflect on it and either accept the logic or offer an equally valid counterpoint. I've a healthy enough ego to state I'm full of bad ideas! You'll notice that even disagreements in this thread have been given an insightful (including theirs).

@VaranisArano
I want to apologize as well. I shouldn't have jumped so hard on that response.

And I actually agree fully with both of you (and the others that said this) that there should be zero crossover on achievements between the proposed cyrodiil and the pvp enabled zone. Again, having all my achievements already, I didn't even think about it (barring emperor, which I did explicitly mention). Just another reason we have the forums to debate and discuss!

And as others have said, a new zone may be a good idea. I was hoping to use cyro as a zone both thematically (recall the original trailer trilogy), and to save on creating new assets.

How does the gameplay work in your idea?

I need to make some assumptions thanks to quite ambiguous OP,
- there are still 3 alliances (since you mentioned alliances in your OP)
- you can't capture the holds from other alliances (since you talked about defending the holds from daedras)
- because the system/gameplay is built on the concept of alliances, I assume they are a meaningful part of the gameplay.

Now, based on these assumptions, we still have an open question about the gameplay: how do you become an emperor - how does your alliance influence it? Because I assumed the alliances are meaningful, it means your alliance needs to hold at least some of the central keeps: if the number of held keeps by to-be-crowned-emperor's alliance does not matter, would the alliance matter? (I think it would render the alliance concept meaningless) So, it would mean your alliance has to own either largest part of the 6 holds or your alliance needs to hold all the 6 holds. The problem with this? Deadlock situation.

Now, lets start with the scenario where the alliance needs to hold all of the 6 keeps to crown an emperor: you get the deadlock situation when the other alliance has at least 1 keep. Because you cannot capture a keep from the other alliances you need to wait for daedras to claim the missing keep and then you need to capture the keep before other alliance does to crown the emperor - this could lead to an endless deadlock where no emperors would be crowned and thus frustration.

Now if your alliance needs to hold most of the keeps - it means 3 keeps with other alliances having at least 1 keep each would secure the emperor spot (your alliance has 3 keeps, so the other alliances have 2 and 1 keeps). The deadlock situation: 2-2-2 or 3-3-0 keeps owned. Yet again without being able to capture keeps from other alliances the deadlock can go infinite making the emperor crowning impossible.

Now, to fix the deadlock, you'd most probably need to change the gameplay system: if you change the requirement from all 6 keeps to most of the keeps, you end up with deadlocks again, so how about making it possible to capture keeps from other alliances? Well, there's gonna be issues with that...

So, if we can capture keeps from other alliances, we end up with strategies such as all alliances or 2 alliances camping a single keep flipping it over and over again. And it would be frustrating to not be able to defend your keep against the enemy alliance. The emperorship would flip constantly because you cannot defend your keeps against other players, making the keep capturing the sole meaningful gameplay in this PvE Cyrodiil. And because we're not going to introduce PvP, we need to find an other way to make the gameplay better.

Alliances seems to cause a lot of trouble in this PvE Cyrodiil, so what if we remove alliances altogether - so every player works together capturing keeps from daedras. Now, since we still have the emperorship as a reward the gameplay revolves around it. If the emperorship and the campaign is not reseted every now and then, we would end up with a single emperor being crowned all the time - the one who has spent the most time in PvE Cyrodiil. And to get a new shot at gaining the emperorship would mean the whole campaign needs to wait for daedras to claim the keeps - which can be prevented by the emperor by claiming the keeps over and over again. By making the campaign reset gets us to a situation where the one who spends the most time after the reset would become emperor for the rest of the time before a new reset.

Removing the emperorship would lead to a situation where the leaderboards are meaningless, so by removing emperorship we can remove leaderboards. And with no leaderboards, why should the players defend the keeps when you get rewarded by claiming the keeps? This would dilute the gameplay to a state where it is similar to just geysirs/worldbosses/dragons/anchors. It would lose the replayability of PvE Cyrodiil.

Now, there are other issues besides the deadlock, emperorship and alliances in the idea. For example: why would I focus on other keeps than the central keeps, when the reward is only tied to the central keeps? What about scrolls, would there be elder scrolls in PvE Cyrodiil? If there were, how could we defend our scrolls without PvP?

To me, the PvP seems to be quite important aspect of Cyrodiil and 3-way war. Without it, the idea just doesn't work in my mind. Without it, a lot of issues would emerge from the gameplay (many issues are detailed on this post) and the issues are the reason I think PvE Cyrodiil is not a good idea.