The Elder Scrolls Online

Remove the stun on every weapon to balance with Dizzy Swing

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StrandedMonkey
StrandedMonkey
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It's been made CLEAR that the devs want to push a combat system in which any player can use whatever weapon they want. As someone who uses 2H and wants to keep using it next patch, it is to my disadvantage that this is the only weapon without a CC. So I'll just name the skills that need to be modified.

Dual Wield - Hidden Blade
One-Handed and Shield - Shield Charge and Power Slam
Bow - Magnum shot
Destruction Staff - Force Shot and Destructive Touch

Thanks!!!!
  • GeorgeBlack
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    My best mate quit a few updates ago when the dmg was nerfed.
    My issue with 2h was never this fearsome move. Sometimes I'd die because of it back in the day, so be it. For me the old Rally was OP.
    I understand your frustration
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    StrandedMonkey wrote: »
    It's been made CLEAR that the devs want to push a combat system in which any player can use whatever weapon they want. As someone who uses 2H and wants to keep using it next patch, it is to my disadvantage that this is the only weapon without a CC. So I'll just name the skills that need to be modified.

    Dual Wield - Hidden Blade
    One-Handed and Shield - Shield Charge and Power Slam
    Bow - Magnum shot
    Destruction Staff - Force Shot and Destructive Touch

    Thanks!!!!

    Oh I would love it if force SHOCK would deal the same amount of damage as Dizzying even if it would have cast time!
    I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.
  • Emma_Overload
    Emma_Overload
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    Yeah, take away all the stuns you want, as long as we get Dizzy level damage on a Destro spell.
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Pretty sure they took it off for the same reason they took it off frags etc... high dmg and a stun on a spamable.

    Mostly the fact it's a spamable and a stun combined.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.

    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    leepalmer95 wrote: »
    Pretty sure they took it off for the same reason they took it off frags etc... high dmg and a stun on a spamable.

    Mostly the fact it's a spamable and a stun combined.


    Pretty sure they took it off frags because it has +33% proc damage, can be instant and cut half the cost off.

    But how do you justify taking the stun off dizzy when there's Crystal Blast?
    Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on September 25, 2019 10:21AM
  • Tarrocan
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    U will see, everything will do the same, some patches later.
    AD MagDK 'General Degree <-Main
    AD MagDK 'Kiana
    AD MagDK Kiana The Fire Mage
    AD MagDK General Degree
    AD MagDK 'Tarrocan
    AD StamDK Tarrocan
    AD MagNB GrimKiller
    AD MagCro Som Ting Wong
    AD StamCro 'Som Ting Wong
    AD MagPlar Della Grant
    AD StamPlar R I M M A
    AD MagSorc Nautilus
    AD StamSorc R O M M I
    AD StamNB Iba
    AD MagDen Desi Roots
    AD StamDen Diablo
  • holden_caulfield
    holden_caulfield
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    My death recaps always are a list of Dizzy swing.

    That proves to me that this skill is surely balanced. I strongly belive most pvp players like to play fair and would NEVER EVER spam an imba skil
  • labambao
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    Emma_Overload wrote: »
    Yeah, take away all the stuns you want, as long as we get Dizzy level damage on a Destro spell.

    Imagine force pulse with 5m range and cast time. Is it what you want?
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    labambao wrote: »
    Emma_Overload wrote: »
    Yeah, take away all the stuns you want, as long as we get Dizzy level damage on a Destro spell.

    Imagine force pulse with 5m range and cast time. Is it what you want?

    Tbh if it did the dmg of dizzy, i'd love it for melee mag builds.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.

    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Chilly-McFreeze
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    holden_caulfield wrote: »
    My death recaps always are a list of Dizzy swing.

    That proves to me that this skill is surely balanced. I strongly belive most pvp players like to play fair and would NEVER EVER spam an imba skil

    Statements like that are the reason why everything get's nerfed into uselessness sooner or later.
    Maybe, just maybe, people would use other skills if they weren't underperforming?

    BTW I see a lot of people running Surprise Attack or Jabs. Count 2 and 2 together and you can stop wonderering why every DK, Warden and Sorc chooses Dizzy since they gutted SnB. But sure, if we make sure that every choice is the same garbage we will have balance too.
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
    holden_caulfield wrote: »
    My death recaps always are a list of Dizzy swing.

    That proves to me that this skill is surely balanced. I strongly belive most pvp players like to play fair and would NEVER EVER spam an imba skil

    Statements like that are the reason why everything get's nerfed into uselessness sooner or later.
    Maybe, just maybe, people would use other skills if they weren't underperforming?

    BTW I see a lot of people running Surprise Attack or Jabs. Count 2 and 2 together and you can stop wonderering why every DK, Warden and Sorc chooses Dizzy since they gutted SnB. But sure, if we make sure that every choice is the same garbage we will have balance too.

    Wow people still use surprise attack?

    Infact people still play stamblades lmao?
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.

    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Olupajmibanan
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    Dizzy was a noob killer. And it is no secret that ZoS tends to catter to noobs.
  • leepalmer95
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    Olupajmibanan wrote: »
    Dizzy was a noob killer. And it is no secret that ZoS tends to catter to noobs.

    Oh stop lying, you know at the very least it needs a dmg nerf with the fact it got its cast time reduce enough to be able to be spammed every gcd.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.

    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • holden_caulfield
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    Dont u guys think that zos has much better data than what shows your little experience with the game?

    I know intelligence is not that common but u really think u are better at detecting patterns that a simple query on the logs tables?
    On what data do u base your pov? Because u win 8 out of 10 fights spamming 3 skilks doesnt make u an authority.

    U dont know nothing as I dont. Zos knows his numbers i like to thing. Being that they Can see their whole game. Everythings
    that happens in the game is logged.

    Where is your analytic data?
  • leepalmer95
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    holden_caulfield wrote: »
    Dont u guys think that zos has much better data than what shows your little experience with the game?

    I know intelligence is not that common but u really think u are better at detecting patterns that a simple query on the logs tables?
    On what data do u base your pov? Because u win 8 out of 10 fights spamming 3 skilks doesnt make u an authority.

    U dont know nothing as I dont. Zos knows his numbers i like to thing. Being that they Can see their whole game. Everythings
    that happens in the game is logged.

    Where is your analytic data?

    Experience.

    If you look at zos's track record including the current pts notes that explains everything.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.

    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Chilly-McFreeze
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    leepalmer95 wrote: »
    Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
    holden_caulfield wrote: »
    My death recaps always are a list of Dizzy swing.

    That proves to me that this skill is surely balanced. I strongly belive most pvp players like to play fair and would NEVER EVER spam an imba skil

    Statements like that are the reason why everything get's nerfed into uselessness sooner or later.
    Maybe, just maybe, people would use other skills if they weren't underperforming?

    BTW I see a lot of people running Surprise Attack or Jabs. Count 2 and 2 together and you can stop wonderering why every DK, Warden and Sorc chooses Dizzy since they gutted SnB. But sure, if we make sure that every choice is the same garbage we will have balance too.

    Wow people still use surprise attack?

    Infact people still play stamblades lmao?

    Hyperboles don't serve your cause.

    Dizzy got it's damage nerfed by whooping 21% over the last coupe updates (-14% in U22, +9% in U23, -16% in U24) for a 0.2s cast time increase (+ post global removal). There is no justification for the stun removal as well.

    Honestly, I'd be fine if they revert cast time back to a full second to avoid the nerfs. Sooner or later they reach a point where a skill is unrecognisable and fits in nowehere anymore.

    E: formatting issues
    Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on September 25, 2019 11:09AM
  • Reaper_00
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    leepalmer95 wrote: »
    Experience.
    What experience though? How many people commenting on skill balance have actually not only played every class in every situation but also played against every single class in every PVP situation to actually have the relevant experience to expertly comment on balance?


  • Galarthor
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    Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
    leepalmer95 wrote: »
    Pretty sure they took it off for the same reason they took it off frags etc... high dmg and a stun on a spamable.

    Mostly the fact it's a spamable and a stun combined.


    Pretty sure they took it off frags because it has +33% proc damage, can be instant and cut half the cost off.

    But how do you justify taking the stun off dizzy when there's Crystal Blast?

    Crystal Blast deals less damage and is interruptible. In addition it is such an awesome skill that literally every magicka build uses it - people even changed classes just so they can use Crystal Blast .... oh wait, that was stam builds and Dizzying Swing.
  • Heimpai
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    Emma_Overload wrote: »
    Yeah, take away all the stuns you want, as long as we get Dizzy level damage on a Destro spell.
    Sure and we reduce the range to 7m..Yeah that sounds fair to me
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    Galarthor wrote: »
    Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
    leepalmer95 wrote: »
    Pretty sure they took it off for the same reason they took it off frags etc... high dmg and a stun on a spamable.

    Mostly the fact it's a spamable and a stun combined.


    Pretty sure they took it off frags because it has +33% proc damage, can be instant and cut half the cost off.

    But how do you justify taking the stun off dizzy when there's Crystal Blast?

    Crystal Blast deals less damage and is interruptible. In addition it is such an awesome skill that literally every magicka build uses it - people even changed classes just so they can use Crystal Blast .... oh wait, that was stam builds and Dizzying Swing.

    It's the "remove stun from brust" explanation that doesn't seem to fit in that case. Also I think that Blast is so unpopular because frags is simply so much better, a situation that doesn't apply to Dizzy and other weapon spams. (read: other generic stam spams are simply bad)
    Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on September 25, 2019 11:59AM
  • LuxLunae
    LuxLunae
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    StrandedMonkey wrote: »
    It's been made CLEAR that the devs want to push a combat system in which any player can use whatever weapon they want. As someone who uses 2H and wants to keep using it next patch, it is to my disadvantage that this is the only weapon without a CC. So I'll just name the skills that need to be modified.

    Dual Wield - Hidden Blade
    One-Handed and Shield - Shield Charge and Power Slam
    Bow - Magnum shot
    Destruction Staff - Force Shot and Destructive Touch

    Thanks!!!!

    Dizzy has stun... you just have to heavy attack after off balance...QQbaby
  • jadarock
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    Meta humpers bent that they are putting dizzy in check after making the mistake of over buffing it lolz
  • Emma_Overload
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    Heimpai wrote: »
    Emma_Overload wrote: »
    Yeah, take away all the stuns you want, as long as we get Dizzy level damage on a Destro spell.
    Sure and we reduce the range to 7m..Yeah that sounds fair to me

    Deal! Anybody worth killing is right up in my face, anyway. I can take out the ranged potatoes with Elemental Weapon :)
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • Centurionax
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    leepalmer95 wrote: »
    Pretty sure they took it off for the same reason they took it off frags etc... high dmg and a stun on a spamable.

    Mostly the fact it's a spamable and a stun combined.

    true but cfrag is a range cast dizy a meele cast its hard to hit and has a cast time so it can be a loadet skill
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    Emma_Overload wrote: »
    Yeah, take away all the stuns you want, as long as we get Dizzy level damage on a Destro spell.

    Sure when you put a cast time on it and the targeting is ruined by people moving a few feet to either side and it’s melee ranged.
    Edited by Vapirko on September 25, 2019 1:56PM
  • Chilly-McFreeze
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    jadarock wrote: »
    Meta humpers bent that they are putting dizzy in check after making the mistake of over buffing it lolz

    Well, then the simple solution is to give dizzy it's old cast time back instead of taking 21% dmg and the stun over 3 patches.
  • jadarock
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    Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
    jadarock wrote: »
    Meta humpers bent that they are putting dizzy in check after making the mistake of over buffing it lolz

    Well, then the simple solution is to give dizzy it's old cast time back instead of taking 21% dmg and the stun over 3 patches.

    There was no need to touch the skill in the first place. I said it before and Ill say it again
    It had a longer cast time for a reason and nobody was complaining about it being op because groups of people weren't able to SPAM it with its buggy knockback. You may have got hit by one not 3 before you could break free like we have now..

    Edited by jadarock on September 25, 2019 3:19PM
  • Chilly-McFreeze
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    jadarock wrote: »
    Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
    jadarock wrote: »
    Meta humpers bent that they are putting dizzy in check after making the mistake of over buffing it lolz

    Well, then the simple solution is to give dizzy it's old cast time back instead of taking 21% dmg and the stun over 3 patches.

    There was no need to touch the skill in the first place. I said it before and Ill say it again
    It had a longer cast time for a reason and nobody was complaining about it being op because groups of people weren't able to SPAM it with its buggy knockback. You may have got hit by one not 3 before you could break free like we have now..

    Totally agree. But even after they sped it up half the people wouldn't complain if they fixed their damn knockback issues and the server lag. Funny enough they worked on the knockback just to remove it from DS before anyone could test it. So it seems we're stuck with this stuff now. Next month people will complain about the next best thing that people will use, Turn evil would be my guess.
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
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    holden_caulfield wrote: »
    My death recaps always are a list of Dizzy swing.

    That proves to me that this skill is surely balanced. I strongly belive most pvp players like to play fair and would NEVER EVER spam an imba skil

    Realistically, what other actually good spammables are there for anything stam that isn't stamblade or stamplar?

    Reverse Slice? It's an execute, you need some other damage behind it to make it scale well, and they keep nerfing that damage.

    Flurry? More unreliable than old Dizzy with long cast time, if you ask me.

    Spin2win? See Reverse Slice.

    Heroic, Puncture? Nerfed.

    Power Bash? Sure, but it's on a weapon that Zenimax openly wants to not be for damage, so the passives don't really support it as a proper damage weapon, and we saw how high damage on sword and board got treated (it got 2 spammable options nerfed for sword and board).

    Crushing Weapon (Psijic spammable)? Heh, good luck getting this to successively land in an actual fight.

    Fighters Guild crossbow? Stupidly expensive, and clunky.

    The truth is, there isn't any actually good spammable for 4/6 stam classes in the game. Everything else either needs some other high damage behind it (which keeps getting nerfed), is clunky to use, or is on a weapon that people don't want to be used for damage.

    It's like saying that everybody uses Vigor, so it must be OP. Maybe if Zenimax gave us more options, we'd use other things, but they don't, so we're stuck with Vigor. Same thing here. If Zenimax allowed sword and board to be competitive as a front bar damage weapon in PvP, or gave dual wield a spammable that wasn't clunky to use, you'd see more people run them over Dizzy.
    Edited by jcm2606 on September 25, 2019 3:32PM
  • Kadoin
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    Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
    jadarock wrote: »
    Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
    jadarock wrote: »
    Meta humpers bent that they are putting dizzy in check after making the mistake of over buffing it lolz

    Well, then the simple solution is to give dizzy it's old cast time back instead of taking 21% dmg and the stun over 3 patches.

    There was no need to touch the skill in the first place. I said it before and Ill say it again
    It had a longer cast time for a reason and nobody was complaining about it being op because groups of people weren't able to SPAM it with its buggy knockback. You may have got hit by one not 3 before you could break free like we have now..

    Totally agree. But even after they sped it up half the people wouldn't complain if they fixed their damn knockback issues and the server lag. Funny enough they worked on the knockback just to remove it from DS before anyone could test it. So it seems we're stuck with this stuff now. Next month people will complain about the next best thing that people will use, Turn evil would be my guess.

    I keep seeing people say this, but no one will complain about a stun that doesn't do damage. There's a huge difference between that and dizzy swing.

    Also, I've been spamming turn evil all day and night on all my mag builds on live and no one has complained yet :D
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