Backlash

aetherial_heavenn · September 2019

BohnT2 wrote: »

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

It's unfair to templar tanks or healers that want to help their team if it only tracks Templar damage.

No it's not. Want to do damage? Be a DD

Want to be healed? ...go roll a healer. Fairs fair. No vigour for you.

You don't understand, potl is hitting for more damage than ultimates from people who actually invest into dealing damage, while the guy using potl could probably not even kill mudcrabs in under 2 minutes.

sorry you lost your sense of humour. Try cleansing it. :P

It needs 6 seconds to charge up, so you have plenty of time anticipating and to prepare. If you are low health and you see backlash nearly going off, then you did something wrong, because everyone knows the highly visible pillar of light is dangerous.

It is limited damage- the max is capped. It takes time to go off. It does not cc or prevent you from cleansing or even healing through it. It can be mitigated.

If you cannot cleanse a huge swirly thing over your head while that damage stacks because you don't have the magicka, or do not run with a healer or purger, to get rid of it for you, over 6 seconds, that is your choice. Just as if I choose not to run enough stamina on my magicka healer to block and roll dodge and break free from a zergs multiple CCs, that is my choice. Unlike dot and CC stacking or multi ult bombing from stealth, or NB ganks, it is highly visible, and it still does a specific limited amount of damage which can be purged well before it goes boom.

It cannot be stacked by multiple players. In fact if it is stacked by different players the explosion doesn't go off. So it is not even a good xv1 skill for zerglings.It needs a coordinated group to copy only their damage and not be overwritten. I suspect you are a 1v Xer who thinks they shouldn't die when multiple players stack damage on them.....

I really do not see the problem except it is available to support/healers and doesn't scale off spell / weapon damage. You don't like that we can buff the groups damage using our main stat pool? Too bad. That's our job.

Rianai · September 2019

Can people please stop bringing up Purge? This skill is crap outside of dedicated purgebots for organized grps and not a viable counter to anything outside of this very specific scenario.

StShoot · September 2019

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

It's unfair to templar tanks or healers that want to help their team if it only tracks Templar damage.

No it's not. Want to do damage? Be a DD

Want to be healed? ...go roll a healer. Fairs fair. No vigour for you.

You don't understand, potl is hitting for more damage than ultimates from people who actually invest into dealing damage, while the guy using potl could probably not even kill mudcrabs in under 2 minutes.

sorry you lost your sense of humour. Try cleansing it. :P

It needs 6 seconds to charge up, so you have plenty of time anticipating and to prepare. If you are low health and you see backlash nearly going off, then you did something wrong, because everyone knows the highly visible pillar of light is dangerous.

It is limited damage- the max is capped. It takes time to go off. It does not cc or prevent you from cleansing or even healing through it. It can be mitigated.

If you cannot cleanse a huge swirly thing over your head while that damage stacks because you don't have the magicka, or do not run with a healer or purger, to get rid of it for you, over 6 seconds, that is your choice. Just as if I choose not to run enough stamina on my magicka healer to block and roll dodge and break free from a zergs multiple CCs, that is my choice. Unlike dot and CC stacking or multi ult bombing from stealth, or NB ganks, it is highly visible, and it still does a specific limited amount of damage which can be purged well before it goes boom.

It cannot be stacked by multiple players. In fact if it is stacked by different players the explosion doesn't go off. So it is not even a good xv1 skill for zerglings.It needs a coordinated group to copy only their damage and not be overwritten. I suspect you are a 1v Xer who thinks they shouldn't die when multiple players stack damage on them.....

I really do not see the problem except it is available to support/healers and doesn't scale off spell / weapon damage. You don't like that we can buff the groups damage using our main stat pool? Too bad. That's our job.

So to counter backlash everyone has to role a templar or use that very expensiv purge skill ? yeah right

Vapirko · September 2019

Can’t wait to watch my PotL go nuclear on people. I hope they keep it. People have been crying about how OP Stamplar are. Wait till my PotL crits on you after an Onslaught.

technohic · September 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

Can’t wait to watch my PotL go nuclear on people. I hope they keep it. People have been crying about how OP Stamplar are. Wait till my PotL crits on you after an Onslaught.

Lol it's way over the top. Honestly, I think us templars are lucky to not have been completely hammered already and they took an even handed nerf to eclipse. This goes live somehow; the next touch on Templar will be a ***

Trian94 · September 2019

If backlash crits then I expect 2h forceful passive to crit and reverse slice brought back to 90% splash. Also cast times reverted etc

Darkmage1337 · September 2019

Backlash (Purifying Light IV):

Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: 28 meters
Duration: 6 seconds
Cost: 1,480 Magicka

"Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight to doom an enemy, dealing 4,245 Magic Damage to them and copying all their damage taken for 6 second and releasing 20% of it as additional Magic Damage to them.
Maximum copied damage: 21,947.
When the effect ends, a pool of sunlight remains attached to the enemy, healing you and nearby allies for 2,070 Health every 2 seconds for 6 second."

So, my idea would be to remove the initial Magic Damage (4,245 in my case) completely and add that value, or half of it, to the Maximum Copied Damage value. (Obviously Tooltip numbers will vary based on everyone's own build, passives, active buffs, food buff, etc.)

Currently, Backlash/Purifying Light functions in numerous categories as a weird spammable (initial damage), passive debuff (copied damage effect), damage over time (copied damage effect), high burst skill (copied damage explosion), and a heal over time (end effect). As far as ZOS's 'ability-audits' go and their actions of streamlining abilities into being super-stupid-simple (Dizzying Swing, etc.), Backlash/Purifying Light still misses that mark of simplicity.

The primary purpose, appeal, and effect of Backlash/Purifying Light is the copied damage value. Not the initial damage hit nor the heal over time secondary effect. Nor the Minor Breach and Minor Fracture for the Power of the Light Stamina version.

It has already been said and noted numerous times that multiple Backlashes from different Templars on the same target at the same time override one another, which diminishes the value of the skill in group play with multiple DPS Templars (regardless of Mag or Stam).

SO, why not increase the value of Backlash in solo play and/or PvP by removing the initial damage tooltip value entirely and instead add the initial damage tooltip value to the total copied damage tooltip value so that Backlash (+morphs) can be successfully used from stealth, without breaking stealth, just like Nightblade's Marked Target.

The Magicka Templar's rotation would look something like this: Start in Stealth > Apply Purifying Light on Target > next ability crits (breaking stealth), so it should be a high-damage burst ability to help reach the damage copied cap > followed by xyz (the rest of the DPS/burst rotation) until Backlash explodes.
The Stamina Templar's rotation would look something like this: Start in Stealth > Apply Power of the Light on Target > next ability crits (breaking stealth), so it should be a high-damage burst ability to help reach the damage copied cap > followed by xyz (the rest of the DPS/burst rotation) until Backlash explodes.

My point is about the set-up and the execution. Backlash currently does too many things at the same time -- it has an initial damage component, a damage over time / copied damage component, and a heal over time or defense debuff component, depending on the morph. Plus, the ability itself cannot crit and cannot be stacked or used in conjunction with other Templar effectively. All of these things combined together into one ability make it less reliable and thus ineffective.

TL;DR: Allow Backlash to be used from stealth (and not take you out of stealth) by removing the initial damage value from Backlash and adding that initial damage value to the total copied damage value to make up for the initial damage loss. Again, this would allow for a better set-up/execution of the ability for solo-play and PvP. The ability already barely fuctions correctly in group-play when multiple Templars are present, so why not make it a little better with this small, easy change?

I love the ability, and both morphs, which I use on different characters, but I just wish Backlash would be slightly changed in this way to be more user-friendly for everyone. @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno

Pelican · September 2019

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Backlash (Purifying Light IV):

Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: 28 meters
Duration: 6 seconds
Cost: 1,480 Magicka

"Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight to doom an enemy, dealing 4,245 Magic Damage to them and copying all their damage taken for 6 second and releasing 20% of it as additional Magic Damage to them.
Maximum copied damage: 21,947.
When the effect ends, a pool of sunlight remains attached to the enemy, healing you and nearby allies for 2,070 Health every 2 seconds for 6 second."

So, my idea would be to remove the initial Magic Damage (4,245 in my case) completely and add that value, or half of it, to the Maximum Copied Damage value. (Obviously Tooltip numbers will vary based on everyone's own build, passives, active buffs, food buff, etc.)

Currently, Backlash/Purifying Light functions in numerous categories as a weird spammable (initial damage), passive debuff (copied damage effect), damage over time (copied damage effect), high burst skill (copied damage explosion), and a heal over time (end effect). As far as ZOS's 'ability-audits' go and their actions of streamlining abilities into being super-stupid-simple (Dizzying Swing, etc.), Backlash/Purifying Light still misses that mark of simplicity.

The primary purpose, appeal, and effect of Backlash/Purifying Light is the copied damage value. Not the initial damage hit nor the heal over time secondary effect. Nor the Minor Breach and Minor Fracture for the Power of the Light Stamina version.

It has already been said and noted numerous times that multiple Backlashes from different Templars on the same target at the same time override one another, which diminishes the value of the skill in group play with multiple DPS Templars (regardless of Mag or Stam).

SO, why not increase the value of Backlash in solo play and/or PvP by removing the initial damage tooltip value entirely and instead add the initial damage tooltip value to the total copied damage tooltip value so that Backlash (+morphs) can be successfully used from stealth, without breaking stealth, just like Nightblade's Marked Target.

The Magicka Templar's rotation would look something like this: Start in Stealth > Apply Purifying Light on Target > next ability crits (breaking stealth), so it should be a high-damage burst ability to help reach the damage copied cap > followed by xyz (the rest of the DPS/burst rotation) until Backlash explodes.
The Stamina Templar's rotation would look something like this: Start in Stealth > Apply Power of the Light on Target > next ability crits (breaking stealth), so it should be a high-damage burst ability to help reach the damage copied cap > followed by xyz (the rest of the DPS/burst rotation) until Backlash explodes.

My point is about the set-up and the execution. Backlash currently does too many things at the same time -- it has an initial damage component, a damage over time / copied damage component, and a heal over time or defense debuff component, depending on the morph. Plus, the ability itself cannot crit and cannot be stacked or used in conjunction with other Templar effectively. All of these things combined together into one ability make it less reliable and thus ineffective.

TL;DR: Allow Backlash to be used from stealth (and not take you out of stealth) by removing the initial damage value from Backlash and adding that initial damage value to the total copied damage value to make up for the initial damage loss. Again, this would allow for a better set-up/execution of the ability for solo-play and PvP. The ability already barely fuctions correctly in group-play when multiple Templars are present, so why not make it a little better with this small, easy change?

I love the ability, and both morphs, which I use on different characters, but I just wish Backlash would be slightly changed in this way to be more user-friendly for everyone. @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno

If you want to attack from stealth, just use a nightblade.

FrancisCrawford · September 2019

Juhasow wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Want to do damage? Be a DD

Why would you want to change the game to that extreme?

Can't say if serious or trolling.

Dungeon healers have done damage for, I believe, the entire history of the game. Certainly they have for as long as I've been healing.

Solariken · September 2019

Make it copy the caster's damage only, then maybe it's justified.

Darkmage1337 · September 2019

Pelican wrote: »

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Backlash (Purifying Light IV):

Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: 28 meters
Duration: 6 seconds
Cost: 1,480 Magicka

"Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight to doom an enemy, dealing 4,245 Magic Damage to them and copying all their damage taken for 6 second and releasing 20% of it as additional Magic Damage to them.
Maximum copied damage: 21,947.
When the effect ends, a pool of sunlight remains attached to the enemy, healing you and nearby allies for 2,070 Health every 2 seconds for 6 second."

So, my idea would be to remove the initial Magic Damage (4,245 in my case) completely and add that value, or half of it, to the Maximum Copied Damage value. (Obviously Tooltip numbers will vary based on everyone's own build, passives, active buffs, food buff, etc.)

Currently, Backlash/Purifying Light functions in numerous categories as a weird spammable (initial damage), passive debuff (copied damage effect), damage over time (copied damage effect), high burst skill (copied damage explosion), and a heal over time (end effect). As far as ZOS's 'ability-audits' go and their actions of streamlining abilities into being super-stupid-simple (Dizzying Swing, etc.), Backlash/Purifying Light still misses that mark of simplicity.

The primary purpose, appeal, and effect of Backlash/Purifying Light is the copied damage value. Not the initial damage hit nor the heal over time secondary effect. Nor the Minor Breach and Minor Fracture for the Power of the Light Stamina version.

It has already been said and noted numerous times that multiple Backlashes from different Templars on the same target at the same time override one another, which diminishes the value of the skill in group play with multiple DPS Templars (regardless of Mag or Stam).

SO, why not increase the value of Backlash in solo play and/or PvP by removing the initial damage tooltip value entirely and instead add the initial damage tooltip value to the total copied damage tooltip value so that Backlash (+morphs) can be successfully used from stealth, without breaking stealth, just like Nightblade's Marked Target.

The Magicka Templar's rotation would look something like this: Start in Stealth > Apply Purifying Light on Target > next ability crits (breaking stealth), so it should be a high-damage burst ability to help reach the damage copied cap > followed by xyz (the rest of the DPS/burst rotation) until Backlash explodes.
The Stamina Templar's rotation would look something like this: Start in Stealth > Apply Power of the Light on Target > next ability crits (breaking stealth), so it should be a high-damage burst ability to help reach the damage copied cap > followed by xyz (the rest of the DPS/burst rotation) until Backlash explodes.

My point is about the set-up and the execution. Backlash currently does too many things at the same time -- it has an initial damage component, a damage over time / copied damage component, and a heal over time or defense debuff component, depending on the morph. Plus, the ability itself cannot crit and cannot be stacked or used in conjunction with other Templar effectively. All of these things combined together into one ability make it less reliable and thus ineffective.

TL;DR: Allow Backlash to be used from stealth (and not take you out of stealth) by removing the initial damage value from Backlash and adding that initial damage value to the total copied damage value to make up for the initial damage loss. Again, this would allow for a better set-up/execution of the ability for solo-play and PvP. The ability already barely fuctions correctly in group-play when multiple Templars are present, so why not make it a little better with this small, easy change?

I love the ability, and both morphs, which I use on different characters, but I just wish Backlash would be slightly changed in this way to be more user-friendly for everyone. @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno

If you want to attack from stealth, just use a nightblade.

Magicka Templar, Tankplar, and Stamina Nightblade are my most-played characters and classes. Lol.
I'm also Former Emp on both my Magicka Templar and Stamina Nightblade...
Anyways, my suggestion on the skill would simply make it more viable in many situations, allowing Templars to control the first-hit / start of a fight, regardless if it is an enemy player in PvP or a singular trash mob or boss in PvE. It is literally no different than Nightblade or any other class that attacks from stealth before a big burst combo. Templars have always been neglected when it came to DPS, for the past 5 years, at least.

FrancisCrawford · September 2019

StShoot wrote: »

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

It's unfair to templar tanks or healers that want to help their team if it only tracks Templar damage.

No it's not. Want to do damage? Be a DD

Want to be healed? ...go roll a healer. Fairs fair. No vigour for you.

You don't understand, potl is hitting for more damage than ultimates from people who actually invest into dealing damage, while the guy using potl could probably not even kill mudcrabs in under 2 minutes.

sorry you lost your sense of humour. Try cleansing it. :P

It needs 6 seconds to charge up, so you have plenty of time anticipating and to prepare. If you are low health and you see backlash nearly going off, then you did something wrong, because everyone knows the highly visible pillar of light is dangerous.

It is limited damage- the max is capped. It takes time to go off. It does not cc or prevent you from cleansing or even healing through it. It can be mitigated.

If you cannot cleanse a huge swirly thing over your head while that damage stacks because you don't have the magicka, or do not run with a healer or purger, to get rid of it for you, over 6 seconds, that is your choice. Just as if I choose not to run enough stamina on my magicka healer to block and roll dodge and break free from a zergs multiple CCs, that is my choice. Unlike dot and CC stacking or multi ult bombing from stealth, or NB ganks, it is highly visible, and it still does a specific limited amount of damage which can be purged well before it goes boom.

It cannot be stacked by multiple players. In fact if it is stacked by different players the explosion doesn't go off. So it is not even a good xv1 skill for zerglings.It needs a coordinated group to copy only their damage and not be overwritten. I suspect you are a 1v Xer who thinks they shouldn't die when multiple players stack damage on them.....

I really do not see the problem except it is available to support/healers and doesn't scale off spell / weapon damage. You don't like that we can buff the groups damage using our main stat pool? Too bad. That's our job.

So to counter backlash everyone has to role a templar or use that very expensiv purge skill ? yeah right

Necros and wardens have purges.

darkblue5 · September 2019

Give it the Engulfing Flames treatment first off. Second off, it is needed for PVE in some capacity. Third off, well it may still need to be nerfed a bit but criting in PvE should make the most sense in the crit chance meta.

The change seems like it was pretty much purely made from a PVE perspective tbf.

NyassaV · September 2019

Now it can crit just like everyone else burst? I mean yeah I get it I'm not sure I'm ok with this change but it makes sense

BohnT2 · September 2019

NyassaV wrote: »

Now it can crit just like everyone else burst? I mean yeah I get it I'm not sure I'm ok with this change but it makes sense

It doesn't makes any sense from a performance level.

wheem_ESO · September 2019

BohnT2 wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Now it can crit just like everyone else burst? I mean yeah I get it I'm not sure I'm ok with this change but it makes sense

It doesn't makes any sense from a performance level.

Correct. I've seen Power of the Light and Purifying Light get dangerously close to 8k damage pops on live (in no-CP), and if they don't do anything other than allow that to crit...LOL. The only way I'd not object to allowing these crits to happen in PvP would be if the base damage was heavily nerfed.

SenpaiNFT · September 2019

Unlike a lot of people on here, I actually main Stamplar.

Again, unlike a lot of people on here, I’ve actually tested Stamplar on the PTS, duels and parses.

POTL needs to be nerfed.

This change needs to be accompanied by a change to the function of reaching the cap, it needs to utilize the casters damage only. The ability critting going to be essential to both Templar specs in PvE (yes I’ve parsed and it’s currently 3rd highest parsing ability for Magplar) but allowing the damage to build off of everyone’s damage is unnecessary for PvE and absolutely horrendous when you’re getting Xv1ed. Absolutely. Horrendous.

Change the ability to only build off the casters damage. As it stands it absolutely CANNOT go live. It will be pure cancer.

#StamplarsAgainstBacklash

Vapirko · September 2019

technohic wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Can’t wait to watch my PotL go nuclear on people. I hope they keep it. People have been crying about how OP Stamplar are. Wait till my PotL crits on you after an Onslaught.

Lol it's way over the top. Honestly, I think us templars are lucky to not have been completely hammered already and they took an even handed nerf to eclipse. This goes live somehow; the next touch on Templar will be a ***

Have you tried you magplar on PTS yet? My bro says damage is way down. You basically cant beat a mag warden with their major protection and constant minor maim. Honestly I dont think its over the top. Everyone who complained about dizzy swing deserves to explode in a blast of righteous power.

evoniee · September 2019

dots nerfed = templar do not have enough pressure next patch if they dont get a slight buff. give something they can use ffs

aetherial_heavenn · September 2019

StShoot wrote: »

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

It's unfair to templar tanks or healers that want to help their team if it only tracks Templar damage.

No it's not. Want to do damage? Be a DD

Want to be healed? ...go roll a healer. Fairs fair. No vigour for you.

You don't understand, potl is hitting for more damage than ultimates from people who actually invest into dealing damage, while the guy using potl could probably not even kill mudcrabs in under 2 minutes.

sorry you lost your sense of humour. Try cleansing it. :P

It needs 6 seconds to charge up, so you have plenty of time anticipating and to prepare. If you are low health and you see backlash nearly going off, then you did something wrong, because everyone knows the highly visible pillar of light is dangerous.

It is limited damage- the max is capped. It takes time to go off. It does not cc or prevent you from cleansing or even healing through it. It can be mitigated.

If you cannot cleanse a huge swirly thing over your head while that damage stacks because you don't have the magicka, or do not run with a healer or purger, to get rid of it for you, over 6 seconds, that is your choice. Just as if I choose not to run enough stamina on my magicka healer to block and roll dodge and break free from a zergs multiple CCs, that is my choice. Unlike dot and CC stacking or multi ult bombing from stealth, or NB ganks, it is highly visible, and it still does a specific limited amount of damage which can be purged well before it goes boom.

It cannot be stacked by multiple players. In fact if it is stacked by different players the explosion doesn't go off. So it is not even a good xv1 skill for zerglings.It needs a coordinated group to copy only their damage and not be overwritten. I suspect you are a 1v Xer who thinks they shouldn't die when multiple players stack damage on them.....

I really do not see the problem except it is available to support/healers and doesn't scale off spell / weapon damage. You don't like that we can buff the groups damage using our main stat pool? Too bad. That's our job.

So to counter backlash everyone has to role a templar or use that very expensiv purge skill ? yeah right

Or mitigate. Or get away.

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

Unlike a lot of people on here, I actually main Stamplar.

Again, unlike a lot of people on here, I’ve actually tested Stamplar on the PTS, duels and parses.

POTL needs to be nerfed.

This change needs to be accompanied by a change to the function of reaching the cap, it needs to utilize the casters damage only. The ability critting going to be essential to both Templar specs in PvE (yes I’ve parsed and it’s currently 3rd highest parsing ability for Magplar) but allowing the damage to build off of everyone’s damage is unnecessary for PvE and absolutely horrendous when you’re getting Xv1ed. Absolutely. Horrendous.

Change the ability to only build off the casters damage. As it stands it absolutely CANNOT go live. It will be pure cancer.

#StamplarsAgainstBacklash[/quote
so you shouldn't die to 1vXing? SMH

wheem_ESO · September 2019

evoniee wrote: »

dots nerfed = templar do not have enough pressure next patch if they dont get a slight buff. give something they can use ffs

People need to clarify which type of Templar they're talking about...If the current PTS patch went live, I'm reasonably confident that Stamina Templar would be veritable gods in no-CP BGs. Spam Jabs with its new 100% uptime on a 40% snare, then use the recently buffed Javelin to set up a burst combo with PotL and Onslaught. That's extraordinarily powerful burst with a CC and very little downtime required between attempts. Plus, Jabs damage is the only spammable I've seen that can potentially compare with Dizzying Swing's damage on live.

With the amount of damage and mobility available to Stamina Templar this PTS-patch, who cares if their bleeds, Soul Trap, and Poison Injection got nerfed? None of that will noticeably slow down their killing power.

turlisley · September 2019

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Pelican wrote: »

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Backlash (Purifying Light IV):

Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: 28 meters
Duration: 6 seconds
Cost: 1,480 Magicka

"Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight to doom an enemy, dealing 4,245 Magic Damage to them and copying all their damage taken for 6 second and releasing 20% of it as additional Magic Damage to them.
Maximum copied damage: 21,947.
When the effect ends, a pool of sunlight remains attached to the enemy, healing you and nearby allies for 2,070 Health every 2 seconds for 6 second."

So, my idea would be to remove the initial Magic Damage (4,245 in my case) completely and add that value, or half of it, to the Maximum Copied Damage value. (Obviously Tooltip numbers will vary based on everyone's own build, passives, active buffs, food buff, etc.)

Currently, Backlash/Purifying Light functions in numerous categories as a weird spammable (initial damage), passive debuff (copied damage effect), damage over time (copied damage effect), high burst skill (copied damage explosion), and a heal over time (end effect). As far as ZOS's 'ability-audits' go and their actions of streamlining abilities into being super-stupid-simple (Dizzying Swing, etc.), Backlash/Purifying Light still misses that mark of simplicity.

The primary purpose, appeal, and effect of Backlash/Purifying Light is the copied damage value. Not the initial damage hit nor the heal over time secondary effect. Nor the Minor Breach and Minor Fracture for the Power of the Light Stamina version.

It has already been said and noted numerous times that multiple Backlashes from different Templars on the same target at the same time override one another, which diminishes the value of the skill in group play with multiple DPS Templars (regardless of Mag or Stam).

SO, why not increase the value of Backlash in solo play and/or PvP by removing the initial damage tooltip value entirely and instead add the initial damage tooltip value to the total copied damage tooltip value so that Backlash (+morphs) can be successfully used from stealth, without breaking stealth, just like Nightblade's Marked Target.

The Magicka Templar's rotation would look something like this: Start in Stealth > Apply Purifying Light on Target > next ability crits (breaking stealth), so it should be a high-damage burst ability to help reach the damage copied cap > followed by xyz (the rest of the DPS/burst rotation) until Backlash explodes.
The Stamina Templar's rotation would look something like this: Start in Stealth > Apply Power of the Light on Target > next ability crits (breaking stealth), so it should be a high-damage burst ability to help reach the damage copied cap > followed by xyz (the rest of the DPS/burst rotation) until Backlash explodes.

My point is about the set-up and the execution. Backlash currently does too many things at the same time -- it has an initial damage component, a damage over time / copied damage component, and a heal over time or defense debuff component, depending on the morph. Plus, the ability itself cannot crit and cannot be stacked or used in conjunction with other Templar effectively. All of these things combined together into one ability make it less reliable and thus ineffective.

TL;DR: Allow Backlash to be used from stealth (and not take you out of stealth) by removing the initial damage value from Backlash and adding that initial damage value to the total copied damage value to make up for the initial damage loss. Again, this would allow for a better set-up/execution of the ability for solo-play and PvP. The ability already barely fuctions correctly in group-play when multiple Templars are present, so why not make it a little better with this small, easy change?

I love the ability, and both morphs, which I use on different characters, but I just wish Backlash would be slightly changed in this way to be more user-friendly for everyone. @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno

If you want to attack from stealth, just use a nightblade.

Magicka Templar, Tankplar, and Stamina Nightblade are my most-played characters and classes. Lol.
I'm also Former Emp on both my Magicka Templar and Stamina Nightblade...
Anyways, my suggestion on the skill would simply make it more viable in many situations, allowing Templars to control the first-hit / start of a fight, regardless if it is an enemy player in PvP or a singular trash mob or boss in PvE. It is literally no different than Nightblade or any other class that attacks from stealth before a big burst combo. Templars have always been neglected when it came to DPS, for the past 5 years, at least.

This.

evoniee · September 2019

wheem_ESO wrote: »

evoniee wrote: »

dots nerfed = templar do not have enough pressure next patch if they dont get a slight buff. give something they can use ffs

People need to clarify which type of Templar they're talking about...If the current PTS patch went live, I'm reasonably confident that Stamina Templar would be veritable gods in no-CP BGs. Spam Jabs with its new 100% uptime on a 40% snare, then use the recently buffed Javelin to set up a burst combo with PotL and Onslaught. That's extraordinarily powerful burst with a CC and very little downtime required between attempts. Plus, Jabs damage is the only spammable I've seen that can potentially compare with Dizzying Swing's damage on live.

With the amount of damage and mobility available to Stamina Templar this PTS-patch, who cares if their bleeds, Soul Trap, and Poison Injection got nerfed? None of that will noticeably slow down their killing power.

it is the onslaught problem here, we say about templar skill.

anyway, puncturing sweep damage spread between 1 sec, it is your fault if you cant anticipate it

Mayrael · September 2019

evoniee wrote: »

dots nerfed = templar do not have enough pressure next patch if they dont get a slight buff. give something they can use ffs

I would like to remind you everyone got nerfed with dots nerf, but only templars and wardens recieved buffs (two classes that are already in a very good spot). In general screw my magblade, I'm sick of being constantly overnerfed, I'm switching back to my ol magplar

When all you will see on your death recap will be templars and wardens you will understand why overbuffing even your class is bad.

Kadoin · September 2019

Crit mag plars and stamplars did not need any more buffing in the damage department IMO, but what do I know?

Ah well at least my hybrid will become even stronger. In fact, why am I not testing it on PTS right now? Hmm...

Abyssmol · September 2019

Pelican wrote: »

Why does this ability need to crit? It already hits super hard and it is based on damage done which includes crit damage. Won't that technically be double critting? Isn't that the exact reason you removed Reverse Slice AOE's ability to crit?

You may be right that damage might crit twice but you forgot yo mention the double mitigation. Damage is reduce by resistance when you accumulate damage and again when the accumulated damage is release- double mitigation...

Casterial · September 2019

Pelican wrote: »

Why does this ability need to crit? It already hits super hard and it is based on damage done which includes crit damage. Won't that technically be double critting? Isn't that the exact reason you removed Reverse Slice AOE's ability to crit?

If you used it, you'd understand. In PVP generating 20k+ dmg in x seconds can be hard and result in it doing 2-4k damage.
Base damage never crit before I believe.
Initial can crit to probably 3-4k, end can crit from 5+k. Highest I've hit on pts is 12.3k.

turlisley · September 2019

Abyssmol wrote: »

Pelican wrote: »

Why does this ability need to crit? It already hits super hard and it is based on damage done which includes crit damage. Won't that technically be double critting? Isn't that the exact reason you removed Reverse Slice AOE's ability to crit?

You may be right that damage might crit twice but you forgot yo mention the double mitigation. Damage is reduce by resistance when you accumulate damage and again when the accumulated damage is release- double mitigation...

Well if the initial/base damage of Backlash was removed, as suggested above, then Backlash may not be able to crit or double-crit.
If the initial/base damage portion of the ability was removed and instead added to the total copied damage value at the end of the ability, then people could be able crit an ability with the first hit while backlash is up, in order to make up for missing the initial/base damage being moved to the backend of the ability and to reach the newly proposed damage cap.

Backlash could as be changed so that the damage-copied portion was only damage inflicted from the Templar who casts the ability instead of all sources of incoming damage, so that way multiple Templars could use the ability at the same time.
Just a thought.

Abyssmol · September 2019

turlisley wrote: »

Abyssmol wrote: »

Pelican wrote: »

Why does this ability need to crit? It already hits super hard and it is based on damage done which includes crit damage. Won't that technically be double critting? Isn't that the exact reason you removed Reverse Slice AOE's ability to crit?

You may be right that damage might crit twice but you forgot yo mention the double mitigation. Damage is reduce by resistance when you accumulate damage and again when the accumulated damage is release- double mitigation...

Well if the initial/base damage of Backlash was removed, as suggested above, then Backlash may not be able to crit or double-crit.
If the initial/base damage portion of the ability was removed and instead added to the total copied damage value at the end of the ability, then people could be able crit an ability with the first hit while backlash is up, in order to make up for missing the initial/base damage being moved to the backend of the ability and to reach the newly proposed damage cap.

Backlash could as be changed so that the damage-copied portion was only damage inflicted from the Templar who casts the ability instead of all sources of incoming damage, so that way multiple Templars could use the ability at the same time.
Just a thought.

I agree! Move the initial damage to the end and let it be only for the templar casting, but also ZOS needs to remove the double mitigation.

wheem_ESO · September 2019

Casterial wrote: »

Pelican wrote: »

Why does this ability need to crit? It already hits super hard and it is based on damage done which includes crit damage. Won't that technically be double critting? Isn't that the exact reason you removed Reverse Slice AOE's ability to crit?

If you used it, you'd understand. In PVP generating 20k+ dmg in x seconds can be hard and result in it doing 2-4k damage.
Base damage never crit before I believe.
Initial can crit to probably 3-4k, end can crit from 5+k. Highest I've hit on pts is 12.3k.

2-4k damage on Power of the Light? That generally indicates that someone either escaped or interrupted your damage output while having minimal other incoming damage. I've seen plenty of pops on live hitting for really close to 8k, and that's in no-CP and obviously non-crit. If the only thing that changes with the ability is that it's allowed to crit, Stamina Templar especially is going to be really OP, especially when combined with an unnerfed Onslaught.