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Animation cancelling isn't intended after all
-
spekdah✭✭✭Thing is animation cancelling is just naff, sign of buggy animation code and/or network desynch between client and server.
It's just disappointing to look at, it's not fluid and looks jerky. So many MMO's and multiplayer gets this right.
So many things about ESO are done really well. Combat animation isn't one of them unfortunately.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭None of this matters
The devs have said it's unintended but it's a thing.
They encourage use of weaving, animation cancelling and want people using it.
IT IS NOT GOING AWAY
DEAL WITH IT
/rant
Light Attack Weaving is fine and should be encouraged. But wanting people to cancel their skill animations by blocking air so they can use moves faster is just stupid and that should not be encouraged by the developers. I should also note Wrobel is no longer in charge. So just because he encouraged it - that doesn't necessarily mean this new team is.
I dont know anyone that uses block to animation cancel any more because they dont need to. If the new team wanted to stop it, they would have by now.
This horse is so dead, it's skeleton is a pile of dust
Key words being any more.
In any case - I'm glad to hear the practice dying out. Where we disagree is when you say if the new team wanted to stop it they would have. That's not necessarily the case; as it would be a very difficult issue to correct.
But so long as the developers do not design or balance content that requires the ridiculous practice I don't have an issue with them.0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »At this point, its intended.
There's a tip in the Level Up Advisor explaining how to Light Attack weave. I'm not sure how much more you want.
Weaving is not the same as animation cancelling.
Weaving is adding a light attach between skill activations.
Canceling is when the system cuts the time of skill activations down below the intended minimum length of the animations.
Weaving and canceling are not identical.
Thank you.
At least someone else understands there is a difference in weaving and then animation canceling.
I wish the two would stop being lumped together.
Agreed1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »None of this matters
The devs have said it's unintended but it's a thing.
They encourage use of weaving, animation cancelling and want people using it.
IT IS NOT GOING AWAY
DEAL WITH IT
/rant
Light Attack Weaving is fine and should be encouraged. But wanting people to cancel their skill animations by blocking air so they can use moves faster is just stupid and that should not be encouraged by the developers. I should also note Wrobel is no longer in charge. So just because he encouraged it - that doesn't necessarily mean this new team is.
I dont know anyone that uses block to animation cancel any more because they dont need to. If the new team wanted to stop it, they would have by now.
This horse is so dead, it's skeleton is a pile of dust
But his s..ts stil stink m8.
Smth must be done
What does this even mean?Edited by Jeremy on September 19, 2019 9:26PM0 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »None of this matters
The devs have said it's unintended but it's a thing.
They encourage use of weaving, animation cancelling and want people using it.
IT IS NOT GOING AWAY
DEAL WITH IT
/rant
Light Attack Weaving is fine and should be encouraged. But wanting people to cancel their skill animations by blocking air so they can use moves faster is just stupid and that should not be encouraged by the developers. I should also note Wrobel is no longer in charge. So just because he encouraged it - that doesn't necessarily mean this new team is.
I dont know anyone that uses block to animation cancel any more because they dont need to. If the new team wanted to stop it, they would have by now.
This horse is so dead, it's skeleton is a pile of dust
But his s..ts stil stink m8.
Smth must be done
What does this even mean?
Word by word...
However, his excrement still has an unpleasant odor my friend.
Actions must be taken.Xbox NA0 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Thing is animation cancelling is just naff, sign of buggy animation code and/or network desynch between client and server.
It's just disappointing to look at, it's not fluid and looks jerky. So many MMO's and multiplayer gets this right.
So many things about ESO are done really well. Combat animation isn't one of them unfortunately.
I agree, thus ZoS doesn't seem to understand that this bug should be fixed (like many other bugs btw).
I'm pretty sure that everyone how still want this are pvp players who already got their macro working to better smash noobs.
Bad mechanic imply exploits ...
1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »None of this matters
The devs have said it's unintended but it's a thing.
They encourage use of weaving, animation cancelling and want people using it.
IT IS NOT GOING AWAY
DEAL WITH IT
/rant
Light Attack Weaving is fine and should be encouraged. But wanting people to cancel their skill animations by blocking air so they can use moves faster is just stupid and that should not be encouraged by the developers. I should also note Wrobel is no longer in charge. So just because he encouraged it - that doesn't necessarily mean this new team is.
I dont know anyone that uses block to animation cancel any more because they dont need to. If the new team wanted to stop it, they would have by now.
This horse is so dead, it's skeleton is a pile of dust
But his s..ts stil stink m8.
Smth must be done
What does this even mean?
Word by word...
However, his excrement still has an unpleasant odor my friend.
Actions must be taken.
Edited#
Nvm.
I get what he was saying now.Edited by Jeremy on September 19, 2019 9:50PM0 -
Runkorko✭✭✭✭✭
✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »None of this matters
The devs have said it's unintended but it's a thing.
They encourage use of weaving, animation cancelling and want people using it.
IT IS NOT GOING AWAY
DEAL WITH IT
/rant
Light Attack Weaving is fine and should be encouraged. But wanting people to cancel their skill animations by blocking air so they can use moves faster is just stupid and that should not be encouraged by the developers. I should also note Wrobel is no longer in charge. So just because he encouraged it - that doesn't necessarily mean this new team is.
I dont know anyone that uses block to animation cancel any more because they dont need to. If the new team wanted to stop it, they would have by now.
This horse is so dead, it's skeleton is a pile of dust
But his s..ts stil stink m8.
Smth must be done
What does this even mean?
we cant ignore a bug only because hes 5y old.
if he stil have impact on game, must be fixed.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »None of this matters
The devs have said it's unintended but it's a thing.
They encourage use of weaving, animation cancelling and want people using it.
IT IS NOT GOING AWAY
DEAL WITH IT
/rant
Light Attack Weaving is fine and should be encouraged. But wanting people to cancel their skill animations by blocking air so they can use moves faster is just stupid and that should not be encouraged by the developers. I should also note Wrobel is no longer in charge. So just because he encouraged it - that doesn't necessarily mean this new team is.
I dont know anyone that uses block to animation cancel any more because they dont need to. If the new team wanted to stop it, they would have by now.
This horse is so dead, it's skeleton is a pile of dust
But his s..ts stil stink m8.
Smth must be done
What does this even mean?
we cant ignore a bug only because hes 5y old.
if he stil have impact on game, must be fixed.
Ah I see.
So you were referring to the left over crap from the previous development. In that we agree. This new team is likely going to be on clean up duty for awhile.Edited by Jeremy on September 19, 2019 9:51PM2 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »None of this matters
The devs have said it's unintended but it's a thing.
They encourage use of weaving, animation cancelling and want people using it.
IT IS NOT GOING AWAY
DEAL WITH IT
/rant
Light Attack Weaving is fine and should be encouraged. But wanting people to cancel their skill animations by blocking air so they can use moves faster is just stupid and that should not be encouraged by the developers. I should also note Wrobel is no longer in charge. So just because he encouraged it - that doesn't necessarily mean this new team is.
I dont know anyone that uses block to animation cancel any more because they dont need to. If the new team wanted to stop it, they would have by now.
This horse is so dead, it's skeleton is a pile of dust
But his s..ts stil stink m8.
Smth must be done
What does this even mean?
we cant ignore a bug only because hes 5y old.
if he stil have impact on game, must be fixed.
Never was anything wrong with it.Besides imagine playing at 50% speed and that is what you get.0 -
Conduit0✭✭✭✭✭
✭
In order to fix it they would probably have to abandon reactive blocking and dodging, which is a pretty substantial element of this game's combat system. So I'm going to have to defer here and say he's most likely right. It would be pretty difficult to fix and would probably require molding an entirely new combat system.
What they shouldn't do though is embrace the glitch and then actually design content around expecting players to use it.
Light attack weaving could be eliminated by simply putting light/heavy attacks on the same GCD as abilities.Light Attack Weaving is fine and should be encouraged. But wanting people to cancel their skill animations by blocking air so they can use moves faster is just stupid and that should not be encouraged by the developers. I should also note Wrobel is no longer in charge. So just because he encouraged it - that doesn't necessarily mean this new team is.
If the devs don't want people to block/barswap cancel then they should stop designing animations that last longer than the GCD. Because heres the cold hard fact, if the devs were to recode the way abilities work so an ability only fired off when the animation finished, meaning that canceling the animation early meant the ability didn't go off, no one would use any skill with an animation longer than one second. Because using any ability that lasted longer than the one second GCD would always be a dps loss.
I was not referring to light attack weaving when I made that comment. As I've tried to make clear - I do not see Light Attack Weaving as an unintended from of "animation canceling". I was referring to people who take advantage of the reactive block/dodge system to cut certain animations short. That would be difficult to fix, and would require them to abandon the current model for combat which the game has already been built upon.
To your second point: I suppose limiting all the animations to near instant intervals could work. But even that would require a lot of work. Animation isn't easy to do - or cheap - not to mention having super fast animations for everything would probably affect the visuals of the game in a negative way.
The first part was more of a general response to the, "hurr durr weaving is a "feature" because they couldn't fix it" nonsense you see ad nauseam in these kinds of threads.
Would fast animations effect the visuals worse than animation canceling? Besides most animations are already fast enough to fit into a single GCD as is, which is preicely why block canceling isn't nearly as prevalent as it use to be. Fix the few remaining outliers such as WoE and Volley and block canceling becomes a thing of the past. If you try to get rid of block canceling by any other means it will simply result in abilities with longer animations being discarded by the player base.1 -
Conduit0✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree, thus ZoS doesn't seem to understand that this bug should be fixed (like many other bugs btw).
I'm pretty sure that everyone how still want this are pvp players who already got their macro working to better smash noobs.
Bad mechanic imply exploits ...
I'm definitely sure that everyone who still wants this "fixed" are lazy noobs who can't be bothered to put in a modicum of effort to learn how to do it themselves.
Aren't generalizations wonderful?2 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Light attack weaving is animation cancelling because you cancel the LA animation by firing a skill.
Bar swap is animation cancelling as you cancel the skill animation by bar swaping
Block is animation cancelling as same as bar swaping cancel the skill animation
dodge roll is animation celling too same as bar swaping and block.
hope you understand what animation cancelling is now
0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
In order to fix it they would probably have to abandon reactive blocking and dodging, which is a pretty substantial element of this game's combat system. So I'm going to have to defer here and say he's most likely right. It would be pretty difficult to fix and would probably require molding an entirely new combat system.
What they shouldn't do though is embrace the glitch and then actually design content around expecting players to use it.
Light attack weaving could be eliminated by simply putting light/heavy attacks on the same GCD as abilities.Light Attack Weaving is fine and should be encouraged. But wanting people to cancel their skill animations by blocking air so they can use moves faster is just stupid and that should not be encouraged by the developers. I should also note Wrobel is no longer in charge. So just because he encouraged it - that doesn't necessarily mean this new team is.
If the devs don't want people to block/barswap cancel then they should stop designing animations that last longer than the GCD. Because heres the cold hard fact, if the devs were to recode the way abilities work so an ability only fired off when the animation finished, meaning that canceling the animation early meant the ability didn't go off, no one would use any skill with an animation longer than one second. Because using any ability that lasted longer than the one second GCD would always be a dps loss.
I was not referring to light attack weaving when I made that comment. As I've tried to make clear - I do not see Light Attack Weaving as an unintended from of "animation canceling". I was referring to people who take advantage of the reactive block/dodge system to cut certain animations short. That would be difficult to fix, and would require them to abandon the current model for combat which the game has already been built upon.
To your second point: I suppose limiting all the animations to near instant intervals could work. But even that would require a lot of work. Animation isn't easy to do - or cheap - not to mention having super fast animations for everything would probably affect the visuals of the game in a negative way.
The first part was more of a general response to the, "hurr durr weaving is a "feature" because they couldn't fix it" nonsense you see ad nauseam in these kinds of threads.
Would fast animations effect the visuals worse than animation canceling? Besides most animations are already fast enough to fit into a single GCD as is, which is preicely why block canceling isn't nearly as prevalent as it use to be. Fix the few remaining outliers such as WoE and Volley and block canceling becomes a thing of the past. If you try to get rid of block canceling by any other means it will simply result in abilities with longer animations being discarded by the player base.
You make a good counter argument when you ask would fast animations affect the visuals worse than animation canceling. I got nothing on that one.
Maybe you're right and this problem wouldn't be as difficult to fix as I was originally thinking. You're starting to change my mind about that.Edited by Jeremy on September 19, 2019 10:28PM0 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Most people in pve really only la weave and barswap cancel.The second really only gets us to our next la sooner,and it's use is rather limited.bash cancel and roll dodge cancel are more a pvp thing.Some mechanics also would not be possible if you could not block and cast at the same time,which is tied to block cancelling.0 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »None of this matters
The devs have said it's unintended but it's a thing.
They encourage use of weaving, animation cancelling and want people using it.
IT IS NOT GOING AWAY
DEAL WITH IT
/rant
Light Attack Weaving is fine and should be encouraged. But wanting people to cancel their skill animations by blocking air so they can use moves faster is just stupid and that should not be encouraged by the developers. I should also note Wrobel is no longer in charge. So just because he encouraged it - that doesn't necessarily mean this new team is.
I dont know anyone that uses block to animation cancel any more because they dont need to. If the new team wanted to stop it, they would have by now.
This horse is so dead, it's skeleton is a pile of dust
But his s..ts stil stink m8.
Smth must be done
One man's excrement is another man's fertilizer.Beta tester November 20130 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭None of this matters
The devs have said it's unintended but it's a thing.
They encourage use of weaving, animation cancelling and want people using it.
IT IS NOT GOING AWAY
DEAL WITH IT
/rant
Light Attack Weaving is fine and should be encouraged. But wanting people to cancel their skill animations by blocking air so they can use moves faster is just stupid and that should not be encouraged by the developers. I should also note Wrobel is no longer in charge. So just because he encouraged it - that doesn't necessarily mean this new team is.
I dont know anyone that uses block to animation cancel any more because they dont need to. If the new team wanted to stop it, they would have by now.
This horse is so dead, it's skeleton is a pile of dust
Key words being any more.
In any case - I'm glad to hear the practice dying out. Where we disagree is when you say if the new team wanted to stop it they would have. That's not necessarily the case; as it would be a very difficult issue to correct.
But so long as the developers do not design or balance content that requires the ridiculous practice I don't have an issue with them.
They dont use block any more because it happens as you weave a rotation which is much smoother than throwing up block between each skill and does more damage
Light attack weaving is encouraged in the game with loading screen tool tips.
So in that form, weaving and animation cancelling are going nowhere. "Fixing" it would dumb down damage back to a high end of 20-25k DPS max if that.
New content (dungeons and trials) are being designed with the increased damage possible with proper rotations and weaving. To get good at doing rotations, you need to practice, unless you're an absolute natural at it which most are not.Edited by Katahdin on September 19, 2019 11:09PMBeta tester November 20130 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭9I sat in a room with all the lead devs, combat designers and the game director and we spent an hour discussing Animation Canceling exclusively. We discussed timings and how to make it smoother. You know what was not discussed? Removing AC.
Its not going away. Even if it went away, they would just remove the animations or combat would just be a mess.
This just tells me that you're a bad "Community Ambassador", otherwise you would have brought it up, since obviously a lot of people disagree.
Or it tells me your unwilling to learn how to do animation cancelling.
And, by far, more people like AC or don't care than don't like AC. Because most people realize how bad turn based combat in a real time game is.
Go ahead try it, apply a skill, do a One One Thousand, apply a light attack and apply a skill again. Tell me how much fun that is. And, if you think AC sucks, just wait until you have to wait and time the application of the next skill to coincide with the end of the animation of the previous skill.
And, you know what, the players who are left will learn how to do that and they will keep cleaning your clock in PvP. Because you would still refuse to learn how to apply your skills and they will spend the time to apply skills to be as efficient and effective as the combat system allows.
Besides, since combat would be slowed to a crawl, the devs would just remove or shorten all animations so the game would end up playing like Starcraft does in a game bang.
If you call using skills that are on a GCD "turn based combat", then ESO already has "turn based combat", you just can perform 2 actions per turn instead of one, which how exactly isn't closer to Starcraft than my proposal? You're contradicting yourself in the same message by presenting a scenario that you consider desirable and then saying it's not desirable at the same time.
And yeah, most people like AC, me included. I just don't like that one aspect of it that we call "light attack weaving". So yeah, you're right, most people like AC, but among the people who you put in the category of "liking AC" there are plenty who sure as hell are not on your side on this. And going beyond that I would like to point you towards the wikipedia article about survivorship bias. Multiple people that I tried to introduce to the game have quit because of it, that's voices you'll never get to hear. Not to mention the fact that on the forums you see the people most involved with the game, and not so much the casuals who just play the game, oblivious to the existence of this "mechanic" in the first place.
Also, it's irrelevant whether or not I want to learn AC (spoiler alert: I do it all the time). I know you just wanted to use some witty comeback after I stated the obvious that hit too close to home for you, but the fact is, if you want to be a good representative, you have to mention all concerns, not just those of the majority, put them in the right context, and fairly represent the arguments being made. You did not do that, ergo, bad community ambassador.
What would be the point of Light Attacks to begin with if not to weave between your skills?
Using as a free, low damage spammable when you're struggling to keep resources up with a spammable that costs resources.
This is not why we LA. We have weaved basic attacks into our skills since the game launched to increase our damage. We would not do it because of sustain issues if it did not increase our damage as it would make no sense at all.
If you think it makes sense please enlighten us about how it would make sense.2 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭ZoS finally fixed mount sprint bug, why not animation cancelling bug.
Hope they are done with hiding bugs under the carpet to get less work.0 -
ZOS_RogerJ✭✭✭✭We've closed this thread as there are other similar threads on this subject.Edited by ZOS_RogerJ on September 20, 2019 12:41AMThe Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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