STAM SORC got the short straw in this PTS

akray21 · September 2019

xaraan wrote: »

I know I get lumped on when I come out against sorcs, but as someone that loves my stamsorc, they aren't as bad as some make them out to be.

At most, I'd like to see a physical damage morph of an ulti like atro (give us an air atro or something).

But I feel I have plenty of class identity on my stamsorc. I run around in a ball of lightning, I have a great HoT always running, I have a unique buff to light attacks and stam just for having an ability on my bar that now has another use as well, I can trade magicka for stam and health. I know some want a class spammable and rarely do most class spammables replace a weapon spammable, but I don't guess the option would hurt to have one available.

As for the talk going into Uppercut - that's not a stam sorc only ability. And players crutch on this too hard. ZoS kept buffing it time wise to make it better for use as a DPS skill in PvE and it never got there, but got to be so fast in PvP that desync's and PNG become a bigger factor in landing it that skill now. It also didn't fit zos' whole strat of no high damage CC skills, so it needed to go. There is a reason you saw everyone crutching on this for a stam build in pvp. (though to be fair, stam users need some crutches right now with the state of medium armor in pvp)

However, I would have left one morph with a knockdown (maybe adding major fracture like one poster suggested) and have it do little to no damage and also push the cast time back up to 1.5 seconds (def not .8 sec though). And then put the damage and secondary effect like off balance on the other morph and leave that one at the faster cast time.

Classes who use dizzy "crutch" on the skill because the game has no other decent melee stamina spamables. Flurry is awful, and imbue is awkward to use. Dizzy was the least bad option of them all IMO, and surprise attack is the only stamina spamable in the game that feels good to use. Combat in this game is getting worse, not better.

Millz · September 2019

xaraan wrote: »

I know I get lumped on when I come out against sorcs, but as someone that loves my stamsorc, they aren't as bad as some make them out to be.

At most, I'd like to see a physical damage morph of an ulti like atro (give us an air atro or something).

But I feel I have plenty of class identity on my stamsorc. I run around in a ball of lightning, I have a great HoT always running, I have a unique buff to light attacks and stam just for having an ability on my bar that now has another use as well, I can trade magicka for stam and health. I know some want a class spammable and rarely do most class spammables replace a weapon spammable, but I don't guess the option would hurt to have one available.

As for the talk going into Uppercut - that's not a stam sorc only ability. And players crutch on this too hard. ZoS kept buffing it time wise to make it better for use as a DPS skill in PvE and it never got there, but got to be so fast in PvP that desync's and PNG become a bigger factor in landing it that skill now. It also didn't fit zos' whole strat of no high damage CC skills, so it needed to go. There is a reason you saw everyone crutching on this for a stam build in pvp. (though to be fair, stam users need some crutches right now with the state of medium armor in pvp)

However, I would have left one morph with a knockdown (maybe adding major fracture like one poster suggested) and have it do little to no damage and also push the cast time back up to 1.5 seconds (def not .8 sec though). And then put the damage and secondary effect like off balance on the other morph and leave that one at the faster cast time.

Nice to see someone actually putting up ideas and not just bashing or complaining. Yes the main problem with uppercut was the desync's. Now they changed the animation of knockbacks to be faster which was much needed and for longer than people suspected. I've been using dizzying swing for a long time. So I don't agree with your opinion on stambois crutching on it. DO I think they made it to easy to use? Yes, they should have considered the fact that it does do to much damage NOW with the stun. As you stated they should have separated the morphs i mean thats what it is for. Wrecking blow not having a stun and giving empower should do the current dmg. Dizzying swing should do the PTS dmg nerf but keep stun or like I said a more useful secondary effect not off balance. BOTH should get their cast times increased. To 1.5 seconds? I don't think so because the risk is still greater than any skill in the game. Although with GCD you technically fire off the same amount of skills, dizzying swings dmg is at the end of its animation. Resulting in more counter play but with better combos because you can follow up with a skill right after.

My point is yes dizzying swing is to easy to use now and yes it is overtunned but the stun was not the problem. The problem WAS the knockback animation combined with them tweaking the cast time. I'm sure there are plenty of past forum posts about knockback and sliding across the ground.

The fix:

Increase cast time back to 1.0 seconds on base skill
wrecking blow keeps same dmg as live
d swing gets PTS dmg nerf but keeps stun (or replaced with better secondary effect)

I mean come on even both morphs of snipe have NICE secondary effects and theyre range

Millz · September 2019

magictucktuck wrote: »

every medium armor stam user will be running blackrose DW front bar with bow backbar for CC, removing the stun doesn't create diversity it just forces us to use class skills to "create" identity. for classes with no reasonable stun (necro I'm looking at you) we are forced into a bow.

I'm all for removing the stun and dropping dizzy, I honestly don't like using it. but give every class a targeted CC then for gods sake!!!!!

I don't think you understand what youre asking for. Should dizzying swing get looked at? Yes but not nerfed. Everyones been using it because S&B and DW were nerfed to crap. Both spammables in the lines are garbage and the change to reverb bash was laughable. So everyone flocked to 2h and then people started saying dizzying swing was under performing (it wasn't) but it could have used some love. NOW its over tuned but not by much. They are so close to balancing out 2h vs mag and if they get it right that should be their bench mark for the other lines (DW and S&B). They need somewhere to start and by everyone complaining about the wrong stuff it hinders judgement. No not every class needs a stam spammable because thats what weapon lines are for. No we don't need stam morphs of everything. Should there be identity? Yes and it should come from passives and magicka utility with a sprinkle of stam in there. I've only mained stam since 2016 because its a playstyle i enjoy (w exception to magdk because melee mag is fun too RIP melee magblade though)

Chilly-McFreeze · September 2019

Millz wrote: »

No not every class needs a stam spammable because thats what weapon lines are for. )

And this is where the trouble starts when they nerf all avaible weapon spams to crap.

magictucktuck · September 2019

Millz wrote: »

magictucktuck wrote: »

every medium armor stam user will be running blackrose DW front bar with bow backbar for CC, removing the stun doesn't create diversity it just forces us to use class skills to "create" identity. for classes with no reasonable stun (necro I'm looking at you) we are forced into a bow.

I'm all for removing the stun and dropping dizzy, I honestly don't like using it. but give every class a targeted CC then for gods sake!!!!!

I don't think you understand what youre asking for. Should dizzying swing get looked at? Yes but not nerfed. Everyones been using it because S&B and DW were nerfed to crap. Both spammables in the lines are garbage and the change to reverb bash was laughable. So everyone flocked to 2h and then people started saying dizzying swing was under performing (it wasn't) but it could have used some love. NOW its over tuned but not by much. They are so close to balancing out 2h vs mag and if they get it right that should be their bench mark for the other lines (DW and S&B). They need somewhere to start and by everyone complaining about the wrong stuff it hinders judgement. No not every class needs a stam spammable because thats what weapon lines are for. No we don't need stam morphs of everything. Should there be identity? Yes and it should come from passives and magicka utility with a sprinkle of stam in there. I've only mained stam since 2016 because its a playstyle i enjoy (w exception to magdk because melee mag is fun too RIP melee magblade though)

I understand what I'm asking, as of now you almost have to use dizzy or else you gimp yourself. And its just not a fun skill. what I'm saying is remove it but give us actual alternatives that are competitive.

Chilly-McFreeze · September 2019

magictucktuck wrote: »

Millz wrote: »

magictucktuck wrote: »

every medium armor stam user will be running blackrose DW front bar with bow backbar for CC, removing the stun doesn't create diversity it just forces us to use class skills to "create" identity. for classes with no reasonable stun (necro I'm looking at you) we are forced into a bow.

I'm all for removing the stun and dropping dizzy, I honestly don't like using it. but give every class a targeted CC then for gods sake!!!!!

I don't think you understand what youre asking for. Should dizzying swing get looked at? Yes but not nerfed. Everyones been using it because S&B and DW were nerfed to crap. Both spammables in the lines are garbage and the change to reverb bash was laughable. So everyone flocked to 2h and then people started saying dizzying swing was under performing (it wasn't) but it could have used some love. NOW its over tuned but not by much. They are so close to balancing out 2h vs mag and if they get it right that should be their bench mark for the other lines (DW and S&B). They need somewhere to start and by everyone complaining about the wrong stuff it hinders judgement. No not every class needs a stam spammable because thats what weapon lines are for. No we don't need stam morphs of everything. Should there be identity? Yes and it should come from passives and magicka utility with a sprinkle of stam in there. I've only mained stam since 2016 because its a playstyle i enjoy (w exception to magdk because melee mag is fun too RIP melee magblade though)

I understand what I'm asking, as of now you almost have to use dizzy or else you gimp yourself. And its just not a fun skill. what I'm saying is remove it but give us actual alternatives that are competitive.

Well, I think current, yes even past dizzy with 1s cast time, is a very fun and rewarding skill. Running around like a maniac flurrying thin air or keep hearing that blurb-blurb-blurb from imbue is not as fun as a skill with an actual impact. But that's it, like our opinions only. But only one of us is asking to remove what he doesn't find fun to use instead of just asking for competitive alternatives.

Lord_Sando · September 2019

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

magictucktuck wrote: »

Millz wrote: »

magictucktuck wrote: »

every medium armor stam user will be running blackrose DW front bar with bow backbar for CC, removing the stun doesn't create diversity it just forces us to use class skills to "create" identity. for classes with no reasonable stun (necro I'm looking at you) we are forced into a bow.

I'm all for removing the stun and dropping dizzy, I honestly don't like using it. but give every class a targeted CC then for gods sake!!!!!

I don't think you understand what youre asking for. Should dizzying swing get looked at? Yes but not nerfed. Everyones been using it because S&B and DW were nerfed to crap. Both spammables in the lines are garbage and the change to reverb bash was laughable. So everyone flocked to 2h and then people started saying dizzying swing was under performing (it wasn't) but it could have used some love. NOW its over tuned but not by much. They are so close to balancing out 2h vs mag and if they get it right that should be their bench mark for the other lines (DW and S&B). They need somewhere to start and by everyone complaining about the wrong stuff it hinders judgement. No not every class needs a stam spammable because thats what weapon lines are for. No we don't need stam morphs of everything. Should there be identity? Yes and it should come from passives and magicka utility with a sprinkle of stam in there. I've only mained stam since 2016 because its a playstyle i enjoy (w exception to magdk because melee mag is fun too RIP melee magblade though)

I understand what I'm asking, as of now you almost have to use dizzy or else you gimp yourself. And its just not a fun skill. what I'm saying is remove it but give us actual alternatives that are competitive.

Well, I think current, yes even past dizzy with 1s cast time, is a very fun and rewarding skill. Running around like a maniac flurrying thin air or keep hearing that blurb-blurb-blurb from imbue is not as fun as a skill with an actual impact. But that's it, like our opinions only. But only one of us is asking to remove what he doesn't find fun to use instead of just asking for competitive alternatives.

How about we finnally fix imbue weapon for mag and stam and have it increase your next attack by 40% simular to the old empower that means it can still be used on A light attack and can be reliable enough to use in pvp.