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Make IA a Unique Debuff
WrathOfInnos
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First I’ll start by saying that the addition of Minor Vulnerability to Warden’s Swarm was a great idea, it gives the skill something useful and makes sense thematically. However, with this easy access to Minor Vulnerability the Infallible Aether set is suddenly obsolete because it would be a redundant debuff.
On a seemingly unrelated note, the change to Necromancer’s Major Vulnerability from 3s to 5s was also a great change. Now it will be easier to justify bringing a few other classes on optimized trial runs. However, this change also means that the maximum Major Vuln uptime was reduced from about 56% (~15% DPS) to about 33% (~9% DPS). This reduction of 6% group DPS should be made up somewhere else to avoid negative progression in trials groups (momentarily putting aside all of the major skill changes for this discussion, and hoping they get reverted before U24 release).
Coincidentally, the “8%” damage taken debuff from IA works out to very nearly 6% group DPS due to the additive calculation of vulnerabilities. If it could be applied in addition to the Minor Vulnerability from Swarm, then Necromancer-stacking groups would experience no DPS loss, and other groups would be able to close the gap a little.
It would be great to see Warden be able to provide a unique offensive buff (their toolkit has been primarily defensive), while also keeping one of the most iconic trials sets relevant and maintaining group DPS levels.
On a seemingly unrelated note, the change to Necromancer’s Major Vulnerability from 3s to 5s was also a great change. Now it will be easier to justify bringing a few other classes on optimized trial runs. However, this change also means that the maximum Major Vuln uptime was reduced from about 56% (~15% DPS) to about 33% (~9% DPS). This reduction of 6% group DPS should be made up somewhere else to avoid negative progression in trials groups (momentarily putting aside all of the major skill changes for this discussion, and hoping they get reverted before U24 release).
Coincidentally, the “8%” damage taken debuff from IA works out to very nearly 6% group DPS due to the additive calculation of vulnerabilities. If it could be applied in addition to the Minor Vulnerability from Swarm, then Necromancer-stacking groups would experience no DPS loss, and other groups would be able to close the gap a little.
It would be great to see Warden be able to provide a unique offensive buff (their toolkit has been primarily defensive), while also keeping one of the most iconic trials sets relevant and maintaining group DPS levels.
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Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PTS forums isn’t the best place for this idea, @WrathOfInnos.
It really should be in Combat & Character Mechanics.
Players are trying to evaluate actual changes proposed by ZOS in Update 24 ... and shouldn’t have to wade through a bunch of player ideas not related to the new patch.
My comments above are not a judgment on your idea ... regardless of what classes are in raid.0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I mean, the reasoning for it is directly a result of the PTS changes. It wouldn't make sense outside of the PTS forums.4 -
actosh✭✭✭✭✭Warden has single target minor vul, as nb has right now on live. On pts however bounce blades have 6meter radius aoe minor vul.0
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WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Warden has single target minor vul, as nb has right now on live. On pts however bounce blades have 6meter radius aoe minor vul.
Yeah I saw that, pretty cool change for Nightblades, that could help with groups of enemies. The Warden one is more significant for PVE IMO since Minor Vuln is typically a healer’s responsibility, and most trial groups have one Warden healer (often already running Swarm for Z’en’s Redress).0 -
actosh✭✭✭✭✭Right. I already used lotus fan in a few trials to keep high uptime of mv with average healers. The aoe mv will benefit my tank a lot and healer can wear something else even in my progression grp. Like Zen with whateverEdited by actosh on September 18, 2019 7:21AM0
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LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I understand the sentiment but I kind of like seeing IA finally put to bed.
Now if only there was anything worthwhile to replace it ...
A thought: Barbed Trap is garbage and like all DoTs not actually worth running except for the fact that you need Minor Force.
So ... what about Twilight Remedy? That gives everyone an extra GCD every 18 seconds to press the same button they just pressed 16 times in a row.0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »I understand the sentiment but I kind of like seeing IA finally put to bed.
Now if only there was anything worthwhile to replace it ...
A thought: Barbed Trap is garbage and like all DoTs not actually worth running except for the fact that you need Minor Force.
So ... what about Twilight Remedy? That gives everyone an extra GCD every 18 seconds to press the same button they just pressed 16 times in a row.
It’s probably going to be Z’en’s, on the Warden healer with Swarm, along with Entropy and Scalding Rune, maybe also Consuming Trap. No DPS is going to want to run 5 ST DoTs when they’re all a DPS loss.0 -
mikemacon✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »First I’ll start by saying that the addition of Minor Vulnerability to Warden’s Swarm was a great idea, it gives the skill something useful and makes sense thematically. However, with this easy access to Minor Vulnerability the Infallible Aether set is suddenly obsolete because it would be a redundant debuff.
If you’re using the set solely for that one debuff, it’s already obsolete if you have just one sorc.
However, the set is very, very far from being obsolete.
It gives a very nice Crit bonus, some spell damage, minor slayer, and a buff to heavy attack damage. So when used as intended (on a DPS, especially one that uses other sets and leverages their CPs to buff HA damage) it makes for a very effective heavy attack build.
Your mileage may vary.Edited by mikemacon on September 18, 2019 6:56PM1 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »First I’ll start by saying that the addition of Minor Vulnerability to Warden’s Swarm was a great idea, it gives the skill something useful and makes sense thematically. However, with this easy access to Minor Vulnerability the Infallible Aether set is suddenly obsolete because it would be a redundant debuff.
If you’re using the set solely for that one debuff, it’s already obsolete if you have just one sorc.
However, the set is very, very far from being obsolete.
It gives a very nice Crit bonus, some spell damage, minor slayer, and a buff to heavy attack damage. So when used as intended (on a DPS, especially one that uses other sets and leverages their CPs to buff HA damage) it makes for a very effective heavy attack build.
Your mileage may vary.
We’ll have to agree to disagree there. From everything I’ve seen “Very effective heavy attack build” is an oxymoron. They were alright from Q2 2017 (Morrowind) to Q1 2018 (Dragonbones). Before that sustain was so good they weren’t needed, and after that heavy attack damage was too low to justify using them.0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »I understand the sentiment but I kind of like seeing IA finally put to bed.
Now if only there was anything worthwhile to replace it ...
A thought: Barbed Trap is garbage and like all DoTs not actually worth running except for the fact that you need Minor Force.
So ... what about Twilight Remedy? That gives everyone an extra GCD every 18 seconds to press the same button they just pressed 16 times in a row.
It’s probably going to be Z’en’s, on the Warden healer with Swarm, along with Entropy and Scalding Rune, maybe also Consuming Trap. No DPS is going to want to run 5 ST DoTs when they’re all a DPS loss.
Healers are already running Z'en in a lot of places. Our Warden healer runs Z'en on all bosses in vSS and our Templar runs Martial Knowledge.0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »First I’ll start by saying that the addition of Minor Vulnerability to Warden’s Swarm was a great idea, it gives the skill something useful and makes sense thematically. However, with this easy access to Minor Vulnerability the Infallible Aether set is suddenly obsolete because it would be a redundant debuff.
If you’re using the set solely for that one debuff, it’s already obsolete if you have just one sorc.
However, the set is very, very far from being obsolete.
It gives a very nice Crit bonus, some spell damage, minor slayer, and a buff to heavy attack damage. So when used as intended (on a DPS, especially one that uses other sets and leverages their CPs to buff HA damage) it makes for a very effective heavy attack build.
Your mileage may vary.
lol
There's no such thing as a "very effective heavy attack build."
You have no idea what you're talking about.
IA is currently a must-have set in the raid meta and has been for ages, specifically for the 5-piece bonus.Edited by LiquidPony on September 18, 2019 8:09PM0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »I understand the sentiment but I kind of like seeing IA finally put to bed.
Now if only there was anything worthwhile to replace it ...
A thought: Barbed Trap is garbage and like all DoTs not actually worth running except for the fact that you need Minor Force.
So ... what about Twilight Remedy? That gives everyone an extra GCD every 18 seconds to press the same button they just pressed 16 times in a row.
It’s probably going to be Z’en’s, on the Warden healer with Swarm, along with Entropy and Scalding Rune, maybe also Consuming Trap. No DPS is going to want to run 5 ST DoTs when they’re all a DPS loss.
Healers are already running Z'en in a lot of places. Our Warden healer runs Z'en on all bosses in vSS and our Templar runs Martial Knowledge.
Yeah true, I’ve been seeing that mostly from all Stamina groups. My opinion is that Z’en’s was best on MagDK this patch, easy 100% uptime on all 5 stacks with 7 ST DoTs. But MagDK only excels when there is a Mag Sorc in group for Minor Prophecy, so did not fit well into the Stam meta. Next patch it’s going to be undeniably a healer only set.
I do like Twilight Remedy, especially now that orbs are multi-synergy. Just haven’t been able to convince any healers to run it when most people enjoy using Barbed Trap.0