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WTF, AoE DoTs are now completely worthless...
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Neoauspex✭✭✭✭✭
✭Scalding Rune was not nerfed nearly enough, it will continue to be the go-to skill for all specs in PvP and PvE.0 -
Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭Patch 5.2.0 - "Reduced the number of players on the servers by alienating them with senseless fun-killing nerfs with no room for player feedback. Will continue to improve server performance by alienating players in order to meet 2020 Q2 goals. Oh, and buy more crown crates."“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”15 -
Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
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To be fair, they didn't specify how exactly they will go about meeting these performance improvement goalsVercingetorix wrote: »Patch 5.2.0 - "Reduced the number of players on the servers by alienating them with senseless fun-killing nerfs with no room for player feedback. Will continue to improve server performance by alienating players in order to meet 2020 Q2 goals. Oh, and buy more crown crates."
So in that way, I guess it'd be accurate to say ZOS is a lot like Mephisto: they will fulfill their obligations to the letter, without fail - but the means of doing so will be quite far from what a reasonable person would expect.
Edit: I think we can officially conclude that ESO is basically entering an "it's so bad that it's actually good" phase.
This is pretty much a "Zero Wing translation" level of "bad". Edited by Major_Lag on September 17, 2019 5:02PM3 -
mikemacon✭✭✭✭✭OH MY GOD THE FIRST WEEK OF THE PTS CYCLE THIS IS NOW SET IN STONE AND IS EXACTLY HOW IT’S GOING TO BE WHEN LIVE ZOMG WE’RE ALL DOOMED, DOOMED I SAY, DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED...
::turns and stares into camera::4 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭OH MY GOD THE FIRST WEEK OF THE PTS CYCLE THIS IS NOW SET IN STONE AND IS EXACTLY HOW IT’S GOING TO BE WHEN LIVE ZOMG WE’RE ALL DOOMED, DOOMED I SAY, DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED...
::turns and stares into camera::
The amount of times we told them issues with cycle 1 such as game breaking bugs and they still make it into live
)) yes. Scream doom. Too little trust with ZOS regarding sneaked in changes for the playerbase. Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling11 -
Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
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This.The amount of times we told them issues with cycle 1 such as game breaking bugs and they still make it into live)) yes. Scream doom. Too little trust with ZOS regarding sneaked in changes for the playerbase.
There was plenty of PTS feedback about the previous massive buffs to DoTs.
All of the feedback was ignored by ZOS, and the changes went Live with only a few minor adjustments.3 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Every patch they just flip the game on hits head.
Sad.
Obvious.
Whatever they can do to sell something from the crown store for 3 months. Then find another tactic to change the meta drastically forcing more time and effort to get back to what you had previously, while seeking something from the crown store.
And whatever it was... will be nerfed accordingly in the following patch. Not with reversals typically, but by introducing something else that makes the previous thing obsolete... and then they’ll do it again... in the next patch... over and over and over again.
Oh Dizzy > Onslaught is too strong... cuz (Onslaught is broken OP)... we will start by nerfing dizzy instead of balancing the broken thing that makes dizzy so damn potent that you can over look executes... brilliant.
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Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the changes to AoE DoTs was meant to make us slot an AoE spamable or atleast have a lightning staff. I don't think it will do so but I think that might be the goal.1 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »People begged hardcore for nerfs to DoTs. This is the results. Read em and weep em. I hope yall are happy with what yall wrought on yourselves. Very few on these forums, can rightfully fix their fingers, to cry about the very nerfs they lobbied for.
That answer would only work if the Devs don't know the game and just throwing numbers to see what sticks. So.. maybe you are right.
In the end though, there is a big difference when people say "too strong, needs nerfed" of nerfing 10,20,30, 40, etc.%. So justifying an extreme over-nerf by saying 'you asked for this' just doesn't add up. (ignoring the fact that the community doesn't collectively ask for specifics, much less generally the same thing, opinions are varied).
If something needs nerfed by 25% and you nerf it by 50%, then you only accomplished making that thing just as broken as if you didn't nerf it at all (just in the other direction).-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC2 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OH MY GOD THE FIRST WEEK OF THE PTS CYCLE THIS IS NOW SET IN STONE AND IS EXACTLY HOW IT’S GOING TO BE WHEN LIVE ZOMG WE’RE ALL DOOMED, DOOMED I SAY, DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED...
::turns and stares into camera::
I remember People sharing your Sentiment on week 1 of gamebreaker pts About buffs to dots and that they wouldnt possibly go live and its 1st week of pts and plenty time to Change yada yada, look how that turned out.
Or rune Cage in summerset.
Or glyphgate.
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.5 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Its too much cost for very little damage. I thought making them in line with single target DOTs in damage but more cost would be a decent idea but they took both too far down. Dots should have only been nerfed by half of what they did; and melee applied DOTs should never be as low as ranged DOTs. They are budgeting things with all things considered equal, and yet they are NOT equal.3 -
Wayshuba✭✭✭✭✭OH MY GOD THE FIRST WEEK OF THE PTS CYCLE THIS IS NOW SET IN STONE AND IS EXACTLY HOW IT’S GOING TO BE WHEN LIVE ZOMG WE’RE ALL DOOMED, DOOMED I SAY, DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED...
::turns and stares into camera::
I guess you missed the other PTS cycles then. The track record for pretty much the first week thoughts going live is why people are upset.
Week 1 of U23 PTS - DoTs have been way overtuned and the counters haven't been adjusted to compensate.
Day 1 of U23 Live - DoTs have been way overtuned and the counters haven't been adjusted to compensate.
Livestream of U24 Discussion: DoTs have been way overtuned so we are going to nerf-hammer them beyond belief.
Hmmm, seems ZoS has established the pattern here of not listening to feedback. Just you watch, the majority of these changes are going to go live just the way the are only for us to here with U25 - we messed it up yet again.3 -
Conduit0✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nerf Volley and Wall of Elements in U23, nerf Volley and Wall of Elements even further in U24. Well I guess thats one way to solve people complaining about RNG in VMA, just nerf the abilities into uselessness so no one bothers to farm for the weapons anymore.6 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OH MY GOD THE FIRST WEEK OF THE PTS CYCLE THIS IS NOW SET IN STONE AND IS EXACTLY HOW IT’S GOING TO BE WHEN LIVE ZOMG WE’RE ALL DOOMED, DOOMED I SAY, DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED...
::turns and stares into camera::
They burned all possible good will last PTS when we all told them the problem they were making with the dot meta which they now are LITERALLY CALLING A MISTAKE.
Why should we believe they will listen or pay attention this time?
I will not be waiting 3 months for them to maybe, possibly, fix this total cluster ***, so yes, I am calling doom this time, because if they don't change their minds I'm done.2 -
Wayshuba✭✭✭✭✭OH MY GOD THE FIRST WEEK OF THE PTS CYCLE THIS IS NOW SET IN STONE AND IS EXACTLY HOW IT’S GOING TO BE WHEN LIVE ZOMG WE’RE ALL DOOMED, DOOMED I SAY, DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED...
::turns and stares into camera::
They burned all possible good will last PTS when we all told them the problem they were making with the dot meta which they now are LITERALLY CALLING A MISTAKE.
Why should we believe they will listen or pay attention this time?
I will not be waiting 3 months for them to maybe, possibly, fix this total cluster ***, so yes, I am calling doom this time, because if they don't change their minds I'm done.
The sad part is that they are literally getting similar feedback for this patch - that they are dialing them back way too far and the increase to skill costs is insane. Guess what is going to happen before live - NOTHING. Guess what is going to happen after live.... we lose more players because people so many are literally at the end of their rope with this.4 -
Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
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This is the kind of thing that should be addressed with INCREMENTAL, weekly or at most monthly, balance patches.I will not be waiting 3 months for them to maybe, possibly, fix this total cluster ***, so yes, I am calling doom this time, because if they don't change their minds I'm done.
5-10% adjustment AT A TIME, maybe up to 15% if it's once a month.
But no, instead we get wild swings every 3 months, completely destroying builds and requiring refarming gear.
I have better things to do than to regularly completely relearn how to play the same game, and refarm sets for all the characters I play.
Can't even pick an off-meta build and stick with it, because so many things are changed at once anyway.1 -
imwargasmo✭✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »People begged hardcore for nerfs to DoTs. This is the results. Read em and weep em. I hope yall are happy with what yall wrought on yourselves. Very few on these forums, can rightfully fix their fingers, to cry about the very nerfs they lobbied for.
Why would anybody take what they see on here seriously, most competent players only come to laugh at the crayon eaters who post here.
These changes are pretty insane though, this will hit most groups pushing the hardest content really hard and make vSS even longer and more boring than it already is. Good thing Destiny 2 is reinventing itself I'll check back in the following patch. 0 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »=
ZOS does this over and over again. There's never any finesse in their balance adjustments. They buff the ever-loving *** out of something one patch and then smash it the next.
This. I honestly fail to understand why they do that, it makes the game much less enjoyable than it otherwise would be.
Honestly, I hate games with grindy gear progression systems, but even that seems like a better alternative to what we have now. At least gear threadmill resembles some sort of a progression system while in ESO it's just an endless nerf/buff whack-a-mole. I'm just so tired of this.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
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Nerhesi✭✭✭✭
Single-target DoTs needed a nerf, especially that ridiculous Soul Trap. The big surprise here is the hefty double nerf, damage and cost, and also the nerf of AoE DoTs. We didn't ask for that. In classical ZOS fashion, they completely overshot the goal. This is what is so baffling.
What is baffling is how a significant part of this community seems unaware of at least unwilling to have more meaningful options in a game.
Single target dots need to do more than double the damage any direct attack. This is pretty straight forward in most RPGs mmo or otherwise. It helped add diversity to builds and avoid the “1 meta build scenario”
This was especially true in eso where stamina dominated pvp. With dots, the high-dodge roll builds couldn’t use the same tactic against dot builds - but higher sustain builds could easily mitigate dots. Of course the higher sustain builds were still susceptible to the dominant meta of cc-ult burst-dead. The above provided diversity, which this game never really had despite all the options as everyone has been used to only 1 effective way to kill...
If soul trap isn’t doing 250% + of a single target spammable - then it won’t be used. That is how irrelevant your argument is. This will be very easy to prove as with this next patch, assuming no changes, soul trap will disappear from every viable build - completely.
If we want diversity we have to give people meaningful options for their limited bar space- not *** choices just because you don’t like dots and they were killing you.
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
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Single-target DoTs needed a nerf, especially that ridiculous Soul Trap. The big surprise here is the hefty double nerf, damage and cost, and also the nerf of AoE DoTs. We didn't ask for that. In classical ZOS fashion, they completely overshot the goal. This is what is so baffling.
What is baffling is how a significant part of this community seems unaware of at least unwilling to have more meaningful options in a game.
Single target dots need to do more than double the damage any direct attack. This is pretty straight forward in most RPGs mmo or otherwise. It helped add diversity to builds and avoid the “1 meta build scenario”
This was especially true in eso where stamina dominated pvp. With dots, the high-dodge roll builds couldn’t use the same tactic against dot builds - but higher sustain builds could easily mitigate dots. Of course the higher sustain builds were still susceptible to the dominant meta of cc-ult burst-dead. The above provided diversity, which this game never really had despite all the options as everyone has been used to only 1 effective way to kill...
If soul trap isn’t doing 250% + of a single target spammable - then it won’t be used. That is how irrelevant your argument is. This will be very easy to prove as with this next patch, assuming no changes, soul trap will disappear from every viable build - completely.
If we want diversity we have to give people meaningful options for their limited bar space- not *** choices just because you don’t like dots and they were killing you.
Soul Trap shouldn't be used. It's a utility skill, period.
Problem with your argument is the existance of purges and suppressions. DoTs don't affect all classes the same way in ESO. And especially Templars with their built-in purges and HoTs clearly proved that in Scalebreaker.
Then comes the problem of multiple casters putting DoTs on a single target. The target can't do much there. Against direct damage, you can.
So, no. Single-target DoTs should not deal 250% damage, that's ridiculous. 150% with lower cost is much more reasonable. Key to balancing it out is the duration.1 -
wild_kmacdb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
Single-target DoTs needed a nerf, especially that ridiculous Soul Trap. The big surprise here is the hefty double nerf, damage and cost, and also the nerf of AoE DoTs. We didn't ask for that. In classical ZOS fashion, they completely overshot the goal. This is what is so baffling.
What is baffling is how a significant part of this community seems unaware of at least unwilling to have more meaningful options in a game.
Single target dots need to do more than double the damage any direct attack. This is pretty straight forward in most RPGs mmo or otherwise. It helped add diversity to builds and avoid the “1 meta build scenario”
This was especially true in eso where stamina dominated pvp. With dots, the high-dodge roll builds couldn’t use the same tactic against dot builds - but higher sustain builds could easily mitigate dots. Of course the higher sustain builds were still susceptible to the dominant meta of cc-ult burst-dead. The above provided diversity, which this game never really had despite all the options as everyone has been used to only 1 effective way to kill...
If soul trap isn’t doing 250% + of a single target spammable - then it won’t be used. That is how irrelevant your argument is. This will be very easy to prove as with this next patch, assuming no changes, soul trap will disappear from every viable build - completely.
If we want diversity we have to give people meaningful options for their limited bar space- not *** choices just because you don’t like dots and they were killing you.
So, no. Single-target DoTs should not deal 250% damage, that's ridiculous. 150% with lower cost is much more reasonable. Key to balancing it out is the duration.
Many MMOs do follow a similar model as what you outlined, which works fine. If you want to squeeze out every bit of DPS you throw out the dot. However if ESO adopted this model (and seems it will), these skills will be largely ignored simply due to ability slot limitations. It’s not worth giving up another ability that has a more significant impact.
Better option would be to make purge more widely available and/or feasible to use in terms of cost.Edited by wild_kmacdb16_ESO on September 18, 2019 2:12PM1 -
Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
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Wrong. It's a damage over time skill that just happens to have an additional effect.Soul Trap shouldn't be used. It's a utility skill, period.
This isn't Skyrim, where Soul Trap does 0 damage and is only useful for its special effect.
Besides, the actual soultrap aspect of Soul Trap is completely useless in PvP.
No one slotted this in PvP before Elsweyr, because the damage was crap and the soultrap effect adds nothing useful to the build.
This game already has enough "dead skills" that are completely worthless outside of maybe a single niche use. No need to add another one to the pile.1
