For comparison- here’s a direct quote from the previous patch that went live

“Boneyard:
Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 3780 from 3510.
Decreased the damage by approximately 32% per tick.
Increased the bonus damage modifier for consuming a corpse to 50% from 20%.”


Then it’s gets a 30%~ cost increase while ALSO getting nerfed 33% more?

PTS:

Boneyard: Increased the base cost of this ability and its morphs to 4950, up from 3780, and decreased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.

We need answers

65% dmg REDUCTION at a 41% cost INCREASE.

I think it's because the single target DOTs are getting nerfed even more heavily than what you're listing for aoe DOTs. Once you take all the many new nerfs into account, aoe DOTs are supposed to deal similar damage at a higher cost. (Or so they say... I'm terrible at math.)

Destructive Touch: Decreased the damage per tick of this ability and the Destructive Reach morph by approximately 63%.

Trap Beast: Reduced the damage per tick of this ability and its morphs by approximately 63%.

Soul Trap...Reduced the damage per tick of this ability and its morphs by 50%.

Entropy: This ability and the Structured Entropy morph no longer grant Major Sorcery.
Decreased the damage dealt of all 3 versions of this ability by 50%

Ah, I misread. I had not factored in the massive nerfs to single target having a flow on effect....

Insco851 wrote: »

For comparison- here’s a direct quote from the previous patch that went live

“Boneyard:
Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 3780 from 3510.
Decreased the damage by approximately 32% per tick.
Increased the bonus damage modifier for consuming a corpse to 50% from 20%.”


Then it’s gets a 30%~ cost increase while ALSO getting nerfed 33% more?

PTS:

Boneyard: Increased the base cost of this ability and its morphs to 4950, up from 3780, and decreased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.

We need answers

65% dmg REDUCTION at a 41% cost INCREASE.

You are not going to like this answer.

These kind of massive swings in abilities and costs are indicative of a team that hasn't the foggiest clue what they are doing. Sorry, it needs to be said. We are five years into this game. Pages of skill changes should not be happening at this point and we should be well beyond 30%+ increases/decreases at this point. 10% here, 5% there is one thing.

Furthermore, they are starting to completely change what skills are doing. There was a serious question asked today for a good reason if they played the game, because regular streamers could already see how bad so many of these changes were and their reasoning displayed people who really did not understand the mechanics of how people are playing the game.

The fact they went live with overpowered DoTs in U23 when they were given feedback saying they were overpowered on PTS to have them ignore it, only to come to U24 and now say they are cutting the damage back by 50% is a glaring example of this.

ESO is a really good MMO. But all it's good characteristics are starting to get overshadowed by this wild patch to patch redo of meta every three months. New gear meta is one thing. Having to re-learn new builds and rotations, frankly, there is no excuse for 5 years into a game. This is stuff you expect in alpha development - not now.

They really need to stop, right now, and spend some time reviewing videos from long term streamers and supporters in their reaction to today's stream. They were, to put it mildly, extremely upset at this stream with just how out of touch the combat team seems to be with their game and just how terrible many of the proposed changes are. LIke U23, they already are pointing out the problems that are going to be caused by some of these ability changes (like they did with overpowered DoTs), and they also are basically saying they are done giving ZoS feedback because ZoS isn't going to listen anyway. Today's stream went over like a lead balloon with some of their long term community members. They definately did not do themselves any favors today.

Things are not getting better from patch to patch with builds (as they should be after five years), but they are getting much worse. It is also beginning to frustrate a lot of players. I HOPE SOMEONE FROM ZOS READS THIS - PEOPLE ARE GETTING FED UP WITH HAVING TO RE-LEARN THEIR CHARACTERS EVERY THREE MONTHS. Especially when so many people have a bunch of characters. Someone at ZoS really needs to put the brakes on this team and get them under control before it starts causing player retention issues. In addition, they need to start monitoring in game chat discussions to see some of the frustration they are causing every three months.

ZoS has a lot of goodwill with their regular content cadence, but it is now being overshadowed by the dreaded changes that will be coming to the character meta. Funny that today, not many wanted to hear about the cool new stuff coming with Dragonhold, instead they wanted to hear how they were fixing what they messed up with U22 and U23 and instead we got more of - we are going to mess things up even further. This is what I mean that this is starting to overshadow the good things about ESO and they really need someone at the top of the chain to reel this team into reality before it does start causing a lot of player loss.

Oh, and you heard it here first - Templars were the overwhelming meta in U23.... Wardens will be it in U24. This is not balance at all.

I lost half the guild mates during Heal-breaker patch, now I'm losing another half due to Dot-nerf-hold.
Does ZOS not look at their subscription/player base swings and not analyze how their yo-yo changes affect it.
Ppl literally quit the game doe to changes, yet ZOS keeps on with the nerf rampage.

Wayshuba wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

For comparison- here’s a direct quote from the previous patch that went live

“Boneyard:
Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 3780 from 3510.
Decreased the damage by approximately 32% per tick.
Increased the bonus damage modifier for consuming a corpse to 50% from 20%.”


Then it’s gets a 30%~ cost increase while ALSO getting nerfed 33% more?

PTS:

Boneyard: Increased the base cost of this ability and its morphs to 4950, up from 3780, and decreased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.

We need answers

65% dmg REDUCTION at a 41% cost INCREASE.

You are not going to like this answer.

These kind of massive swings in abilities and costs are indicative of a team that hasn't the foggiest clue what they are doing. Sorry, it needs to be said. We are five years into this game. Pages of skill changes should not be happening at this point and we should be well beyond 30%+ increases/decreases at this point. 10% here, 5% there is one thing.

Furthermore, they are starting to completely change what skills are doing. There was a serious question asked today for a good reason if they played the game, because regular streamers could already see how bad so many of these changes were and their reasoning displayed people who really did not understand the mechanics of how people are playing the game.

The fact they went live with overpowered DoTs in U23 when they were given feedback saying they were overpowered on PTS to have them ignore it, only to come to U24 and now say they are cutting the damage back by 50% is a glaring example of this.

ESO is a really good MMO. But all it's good characteristics are starting to get overshadowed by this wild patch to patch redo of meta every three months. New gear meta is one thing. Having to re-learn new builds and rotations, frankly, there is no excuse for 5 years into a game. This is stuff you expect in alpha development - not now.

They really need to stop, right now, and spend some time reviewing videos from long term streamers and supporters in their reaction to today's stream. They were, to put it mildly, extremely upset at this stream with just how out of touch the combat team seems to be with their game and just how terrible many of the proposed changes are. LIke U23, they already are pointing out the problems that are going to be caused by some of these ability changes (like they did with overpowered DoTs), and they also are basically saying they are done giving ZoS feedback because ZoS isn't going to listen anyway. Today's stream went over like a lead balloon with some of their long term community members. They definately did not do themselves any favors today.

Things are not getting better from patch to patch with builds (as they should be after five years), but they are getting much worse. It is also beginning to frustrate a lot of players. I HOPE SOMEONE FROM ZOS READS THIS - PEOPLE ARE GETTING FED UP WITH HAVING TO RE-LEARN THEIR CHARACTERS EVERY THREE MONTHS. Especially when so many people have a bunch of characters. Someone at ZoS really needs to put the brakes on this team and get them under control before it starts causing player retention issues. In addition, they need to start monitoring in game chat discussions to see some of the frustration they are causing every three months.

ZoS has a lot of goodwill with their regular content cadence, but it is now being overshadowed by the dreaded changes that will be coming to the character meta. Funny that today, not many wanted to hear about the cool new stuff coming with Dragonhold, instead they wanted to hear how they were fixing what they messed up with U22 and U23 and instead we got more of - we are going to mess things up even further. This is what I mean that this is starting to overshadow the good things about ESO and they really need someone at the top of the chain to reel this team into reality before it does start causing a lot of player loss.

Oh, and you heard it here first - Templars were the overwhelming meta in U23.... Wardens will be it in U24. This is not balance at all.

I have constantly argued against the sentiment that there are just mindless wild swings from the combat team, but I agree with you. This change in damage and cost and DoTs makes them essentially unviable as damage sources. Compared to before the audit, cost has increased dramatically and damage has actually gone down. It's the meme that ZoS over buffs and then nerfs down to the point that skills are worse than they were before buffing...

Wayshuba wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

For comparison- here’s a direct quote from the previous patch that went live

“Boneyard:
Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 3780 from 3510.
Decreased the damage by approximately 32% per tick.
Increased the bonus damage modifier for consuming a corpse to 50% from 20%.”


Then it’s gets a 30%~ cost increase while ALSO getting nerfed 33% more?

PTS:

Boneyard: Increased the base cost of this ability and its morphs to 4950, up from 3780, and decreased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.

We need answers

65% dmg REDUCTION at a 41% cost INCREASE.

You are not going to like this answer.

These kind of massive swings in abilities and costs are indicative of a team that hasn't the foggiest clue what they are doing. Sorry, it needs to be said. We are five years into this game. Pages of skill changes should not be happening at this point and we should be well beyond 30%+ increases/decreases at this point. 10% here, 5% there is one thing.

Furthermore, they are starting to completely change what skills are doing. There was a serious question asked today for a good reason if they played the game, because regular streamers could already see how bad so many of these changes were and their reasoning displayed people who really did not understand the mechanics of how people are playing the game.

The fact they went live with overpowered DoTs in U23 when they were given feedback saying they were overpowered on PTS to have them ignore it, only to come to U24 and now say they are cutting the damage back by 50% is a glaring example of this.

ESO is a really good MMO. But all it's good characteristics are starting to get overshadowed by this wild patch to patch redo of meta every three months. New gear meta is one thing. Having to re-learn new builds and rotations, frankly, there is no excuse for 5 years into a game. This is stuff you expect in alpha development - not now.

They really need to stop, right now, and spend some time reviewing videos from long term streamers and supporters in their reaction to today's stream. They were, to put it mildly, extremely upset at this stream with just how out of touch the combat team seems to be with their game and just how terrible many of the proposed changes are. LIke U23, they already are pointing out the problems that are going to be caused by some of these ability changes (like they did with overpowered DoTs), and they also are basically saying they are done giving ZoS feedback because ZoS isn't going to listen anyway. Today's stream went over like a lead balloon with some of their long term community members. They definately did not do themselves any favors today.

Things are not getting better from patch to patch with builds (as they should be after five years), but they are getting much worse. It is also beginning to frustrate a lot of players. I HOPE SOMEONE FROM ZOS READS THIS - PEOPLE ARE GETTING FED UP WITH HAVING TO RE-LEARN THEIR CHARACTERS EVERY THREE MONTHS. Especially when so many people have a bunch of characters. Someone at ZoS really needs to put the brakes on this team and get them under control before it starts causing player retention issues. In addition, they need to start monitoring in game chat discussions to see some of the frustration they are causing every three months.

ZoS has a lot of goodwill with their regular content cadence, but it is now being overshadowed by the dreaded changes that will be coming to the character meta. Funny that today, not many wanted to hear about the cool new stuff coming with Dragonhold, instead they wanted to hear how they were fixing what they messed up with U22 and U23 and instead we got more of - we are going to mess things up even further. This is what I mean that this is starting to overshadow the good things about ESO and they really need someone at the top of the chain to reel this team into reality before it does start causing a lot of player loss.

Oh, and you heard it here first - Templars were the overwhelming meta in U23.... Wardens will be it in U24. This is not balance at all.

If I could give this more Awesome, I would. The last few patches have been rough. There's nothing fun about having to change up an enjoyable playstyle with each new patch. The combat team is so out of focus on everything related to combat these days and it's disappointing. I've been sticking it out, but it's getting much, much harder to enjoy this game with as little communication and acknowledgement that the developers show their community. It's getting very hard to find the fun in this game for me now, and I know I'm not the only that feels this way. It's truly a shame since this is such an amazing game.

Celestro wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

1st of all may i commend you on one of the best answers i have read on these forums to date
2nd i agree 100% the stream tonight was very uncomfortable viewing it was clear the Dev's had nothing prep'd by way of justifying the sweeping changes other than the "it was OP last patch".
i also noticed as i am sure everyone else did alot of key changes were scrolled past very quickly as if to avoid discussion for instance the scamp now scaling from max stam not max magicka which will destroy alot of mag sorc builds (but this is not about those changes).
for me i feel "Balance" will never be achieved because they do not seem to listen to feedback until its to late, they started this cycle (for me) with Morrowind, and have been playing swingball ever since every patch is either a roll back to correct a mistake or a sweeping nerf or buff to cover a mistake. once they run out of things to change they will then (and only then) attempt to redress the remaining gaps with the CP overhaul and then i feel things will be beyond repair

Indeed, this isn't entirely about those changes but just want to clarify that they changed the Clannfear to scale off Max stamina, not the Scamp. MagSorc remain the same in that regard.

i stand corrected

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

I must say, “our numbers aren’t engraved in stone” suggested that there might be minor adjustments to fine tune the balance. Because the U23 change to DOTs was billed as being the foundation of an audit that provided consistent numbers. To dramatically increase the damage that DOTs do last Patch, and then to cut them in half or more while dramatically increasing the cost associated with them this patch suggests that you would be better off describing your numbers as “written on the back of a napkin that has the word ‘plan’ at the top.” If your calculations regarding the ‘foundation’ of the new balance were off by that much, my faith in where you plan to go from here is severely shaken. How reliable can your standards possibly be if they can produce numbers that are so dramatically wrong? When the numbers were originally released, it took all of 3 minutes for everyone to realise what the changes would mean. How did they make them through internal testing without anyone working it out?

To then promise class identity fixes as a cover for gutting dps across the board is, at best, underhanded.

Does power creep need to be addressed? Sure. But at least have the courage to say that that is what you are doing rather than pretending that you are helping give classes a sense of identity.

Yes, this set of patch notes makes it seem likely that there will be more diversity in terms for build options, but when an endgame player is losing 30K dps as a result of these changes, where does that leave the rest of us who are still progressing? Changes this drastic do not indicate an openness to altering numbers, but a fundamental lack of vision for where the game is going.

I am going to have to remember that planning on the back of a napkin thing. Sadly, I would say that is probably closer to accurate than most people know.