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How to make PvP more friendly and inviting to PvErs?
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Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why would PvE players be interested in PvP in this game when most gamers who are into PvP still wouldn't play PvP in a game like this, because the PvP is terrible, which is why it is basically dead.Edited by Sylosi on September 13, 2019 10:36PM2 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭MojaveHeld wrote: »I'm both a PvPer and PvEr. I get where both sides are coming from. That being said, with IC, the solution to getting more people in there is something that many other PvPers won't like. Get rid of Tel Var loss on getting killed by other players. The overwhelming amount of Tel Var created in the zone is from PvE objectives. But the overwhelming loss of it is from getting ganked when you're already low health, or getting steamrolled by a large group of players. The gankers and bombers who can take large amounts of tel var from players at no risk to themselves, slink off and bank it all, and then rinse and repeat, are why the zone is practically dead. The PvE play is doing all the work, and the PvP playing is usually stealing a significant amount of the rewards, at little to no risk to themselves. It's just poor zone design.
If you still keep the tel var loss from getting killed by bosses, mobs, etc., the zone still has it's risk:reward balance for most players, but as long as the zone heavily rewards trolling and griefing, the majority of people will stay out. The balance is currently tipped in the favor of a playstyle that most players find toxic, so until that is changed, there's not much PvPers can do to make the zone more welcoming. Advocating for changes to eliminate that sort of behavior is really all they can do, and many of the people that frequent the zone already are guilty of that exact behavior, so they're unlikely to support making changes.
If you get rid of tel var you lose all purpose for the heart of IC, killing the zone. Just because some people find the zone to be toxic doesn't mean it is, especially when these people seem to have the least experience in the zone. You're not going to change the toxic part of the experience which is the ganking. People are still going to gank other people and you're still going to see the same people complaining they got killed in the sewers on the way to the boss. They just won't have the TV excuse to crutch them.0 -
dennissomb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I do not think you have to make PvP more friendly for PvE players especially just for an event. People do not have to love/do every aspect of every MMO. There is variety in these games just so they have something that appeals to a varied group of peoples different interest.
In fact trying to make every aspect of a MMO appeal to everyone is why games become bland. Let the raiders raid, questers quest, PvPers PvP etc. If players want to expand into areas of the game they do not normally do/like then they are the ones that need to make the appropriate change/effort to enjoy it4 -
Karivaa✭✭✭✭✭Maybe PVE’ers should make PVE more inviting to PVP’ers. When I enter a dungeon people can be quite rude when they see my stars even though I have turned my 5 star into a PVE healer.2
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Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GarnetFire17 wrote: »The problem on PC NA is that the factions are not balanced when it comes to hardcore Pvp groups. It doesn't seem like AD has many active groups. DC has the most, EP somewhere in the middle. AD relys more on numbers than organization and skill just to try to compete. Then it becomes a matter of, we can't win, so we'll comeback later when the try hards are gone.
This campaign DC seems that way because the oceanic guilds rolled DC this campaign. The last 2-3 they were on AD which is why AD won those.Beta tester November 20131 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
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Same here, I finished the IC mainquest in peace (on my main) shortly before IC became its own campaign.Yup, that's the problem with the questing in Imperial City. I made sure to do it on one character before IC became its own campaign. I got it done completely stress free and it was an enjoyable experience. I wouldn't even consider going in there to do it now... doubly so during an event.
I used one of the post-event Cyrodiils which was completely dead, and that instance of IC had all district flags of my alliance's color. PvE story mode, basically
And just for fun, I tried doing the IC mainquest on one of my mule alts during the event, knowing fully well that it almost certainly won't work because of the overcrowding.
Sure enough, when playing solo, it's impossible to progress past the arena quest. (edit: at least, without a proper PvP build on a properly levelled PvP character)
I tried a few times during different times of day/night, and the arena was constantly either camped by gankers or overran by zergs.
I did the story on 3 AD characters during the event. Got ganked on the temple onceand several times doing the nobles district (the one where you have to defend the doors).
I just kept running back and continuing. Even had one DC and one EP help me complete the last door without killing me so I could finish it (thanks guys!).
Takes persistence and unwavering stubborness to get it done no matter what.Edited by Katahdin on September 13, 2019 10:39PMBeta tester November 20133 -
Ostonoha✭✭✭Getting killed isn't a problem. Happens all the time in questing in pve, in dungeons, in pledges, and trials. What doesn't happen in pve is the insults, trash talk, and other happy stuff. Not one world boss ever told me what my Mom said last night. Not one critter in a delve ever sent a "Learn2Play, expletive deleted no0b" whisper. And not one boss, monster, or critter ever followed me across the zone to keep killing me because I didn't want to fight, only get to the crafting station. There may be pvpers that actually do want a fair fight, who won't take getting beaten as a personal insult, but I have yet to run into one.
You (and many others I have seen posting on many threads over the years) make it sound like PVP is filled with nothing but toxic players just killing people and then instantly telling them to learn to play, or scrub, or whatever just to be a d*k. I have pvped in this game and many others for years. I can count on one hand the amount of times I have been sent a hate message from another player. Again thats with me pvping on average at least 2-3 hrs a day (since im an addict). This notion that pvp in this game and any game is filled with large numbers of hateful, spiteful, and toxic people is crazy and false. And really if one person out of a hundred does sends you a message calling you a scrub or anything else, why do you give a fook? Tell em to *** off and go about enjoying the game.
Edited by Ostonoha on September 14, 2019 3:30PM0 -
Drako_Ei✭✭✭✭✭LAG...
At least at pve when i press a button, something happens!
If cyro ran half as decent as pve, i would play for sure1 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The entire concept is flawed.
Players into PVP identify as PVP players, whether they also PVE or not. The real question to ask is how to make ESO PVP more interesting to PVP players. The goal should always be to create the best possible PVP experience and to attract PVP players.
Adapting a PVP environment to accommodate people who aren't inherently interested in PVP doesn't make any sense. It's like asking how to make a beef steak vegan friendly.3 -
Heatnix90✭✭✭✭✭
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*laughs in small-scale*thatlaurachick wrote: »This is really a design problem with PvP in ESO. Ganking or zerging are literally the best ways to not die in PvP... so unless you're really into dueling or already in a big PvP guild, you are SOL and dead.
Imagine thinking that serious PvPers care about objectives. Most of us flat out ignore objectives and just DM, win or lose. There's also zero tactics involved when all you have to do to win is ignore actual PvP and run around PvFlagging, ZOS just needs to get rid of objective-based PvP, or maybe modify Land Grab to actually incentivize pvping for flags instead of running around in a blocktard build and standing on objectives like some potato.You know what PvE people *will* do? BGs.
Ganking isn't as prevalent. I never queue for Deathmatch, so BGs are actually fun.
The games require tactics and just killing people is not enough to win. However, 3 people can win against 8 others if they PTFO.
Non-CP so you can jump in with just an armor change.
Wrong again. Gankers only care about getting the ganks, AP/Tel Var is irrelevant to them. Same as small-scale groups who farm resources, we don't care about the campaigns/objectives, we're just here to dumpster other people and have fun doing it.If ZOS could make ganking not profitable, minimize harassment, and make PvP more fair (right now you're either "good" or dead), you'd get more PvE participation.
None of your suggestions are going to improve or incentivize PvP.0 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
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No. You can PvP on all of your characters if you want to.jainiadral wrote: »Side note: I totally don't get the whole campaign thing at all. If I'm going to try out these zones, it looks like I have to make a major time and method commitment-- am I getting that much right? A week or a month, and I can't decide to do something else PvP-ish on a different toon?
This is somewhat complicated if you have characters on more than 1 alliance, since the 30-day campaigns are faction locked. But you can PvP with 1 faction in CP, 1 in no-CP each month.
And in 7-day campaigns you can bring any character you want (no faction lock), but the 7-day campaign is... kinda special, and quite empty.
(Edit: typo)
Thanks for the explanation I can see why faction lock is so unpopular... I've got one max level toon in each alliance because I wanted to deep dive the story on successive alts. Only two are sort of optimized, so... I guess I'd have to do the 7 day thing if I wanted to give the maps a shot.
The whole setup seems so casual-unfriendly.0 -
TheRealPotoroo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »I'm both a PvPer and PvEr. I get where both sides are coming from. That being said, with IC, the solution to getting more people in there is something that many other PvPers won't like. Get rid of Tel Var loss on getting killed by other players. The overwhelming amount of Tel Var created in the zone is from PvE objectives. But the overwhelming loss of it is from getting ganked when you're already low health, or getting steamrolled by a large group of players. The gankers and bombers who can take large amounts of tel var from players at no risk to themselves, slink off and bank it all, and then rinse and repeat, are why the zone is practically dead. The PvE play is doing all the work, and the PvP playing is usually stealing a significant amount of the rewards, at little to no risk to themselves. It's just poor zone design.
If you still keep the tel var loss from getting killed by bosses, mobs, etc., the zone still has it's risk:reward balance for most players, but as long as the zone heavily rewards trolling and griefing, the majority of people will stay out. The balance is currently tipped in the favor of a playstyle that most players find toxic, so until that is changed, there's not much PvPers can do to make the zone more welcoming. Advocating for changes to eliminate that sort of behavior is really all they can do, and many of the people that frequent the zone already are guilty of that exact behavior, so they're unlikely to support making changes.
If you get rid of tel var you lose all purpose for the heart of IC, killing the zone. Just because some people find the zone to be toxic doesn't mean it is, especially when these people seem to have the least experience in the zone. You're not going to change the toxic part of the experience which is the ganking. People are still going to gank other people and you're still going to see the same people complaining they got killed in the sewers on the way to the boss. They just won't have the TV excuse to crutch them.
IC has basically been dead for a long, long time and the reasons why have been discussed ad nauseum. Getting ganked is one of the reasons for not going back that recurs over and over among PVE players. It's obnoxious not just to a few people, ESO's player base is overwhelmingly PVE oriented and when they keep telling you over and over why they won't go back to a zone you don't get to pretend they never said anything, especially in a thread like this which is ostensibly about ways to make PVP more attractive to these players. It's not just ganking, PVE players playing PVP is a whole different mindset and mode of play that is totally not supported by an arrogant developer who refuses to make switching between modes simple and easy. But at the end of the day, I bet if you were to go back over every thread on this issue and itemise the reasons why PVE players don't want to have a bar of PVP, getting slaughtered by invisible enemies they can do nothing about* will rank top of the list.
* Before anyone mentions that there are some anti-ganking methods available, most PVE players won't have access to them or even know about them because of ZOS's aforesaid refusal to facilitate mode switching.Edited by TheRealPotoroo on September 14, 2019 1:51AMPC NA, PC EU
"Instead of taking the best of the dolmens (predictable rotation), the best of the geysers (scalability based on number of players), and the best of the dragons (map location and health indicators) and adding them together to make a fun and dynamic world event scenario, they gave us....... harrowstorms." https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6850523/#Comment_68505234 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheRealPotoroo wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »I'm both a PvPer and PvEr. I get where both sides are coming from. That being said, with IC, the solution to getting more people in there is something that many other PvPers won't like. Get rid of Tel Var loss on getting killed by other players. The overwhelming amount of Tel Var created in the zone is from PvE objectives. But the overwhelming loss of it is from getting ganked when you're already low health, or getting steamrolled by a large group of players. The gankers and bombers who can take large amounts of tel var from players at no risk to themselves, slink off and bank it all, and then rinse and repeat, are why the zone is practically dead. The PvE play is doing all the work, and the PvP playing is usually stealing a significant amount of the rewards, at little to no risk to themselves. It's just poor zone design.
If you still keep the tel var loss from getting killed by bosses, mobs, etc., the zone still has it's risk:reward balance for most players, but as long as the zone heavily rewards trolling and griefing, the majority of people will stay out. The balance is currently tipped in the favor of a playstyle that most players find toxic, so until that is changed, there's not much PvPers can do to make the zone more welcoming. Advocating for changes to eliminate that sort of behavior is really all they can do, and many of the people that frequent the zone already are guilty of that exact behavior, so they're unlikely to support making changes.
If you get rid of tel var you lose all purpose for the heart of IC, killing the zone. Just because some people find the zone to be toxic doesn't mean it is, especially when these people seem to have the least experience in the zone. You're not going to change the toxic part of the experience which is the ganking. People are still going to gank other people and you're still going to see the same people complaining they got killed in the sewers on the way to the boss. They just won't have the TV excuse to crutch them.
IC has basically been dead for a long, long time and the reasons why have been discussed ad nauseum. Getting ganked is one of the reasons for not going back that recurs over and over among PVE players. It's obnoxious not just to a few people, ESO's player base is overwhelmingly PVE oriented and when they keep telling you over and over why they won't go back to a zone you don't get to pretend they never said anything, especially in a thread like this which is ostensibly about ways to make PVP more attractive to these players. It's not just ganking, PVE players playing PVP is a whole different mindset and mode of play that is totally not supported by an arrogant developer who refuses to make switching between modes simple and easy. But at the end of the day, I bet if you were to go back over every thread on this issue and itemise the reasons why PVE players don't want to have a bar of PVP, getting slaughtered by invisible enemies they can do nothing about* will rank top of the list.
* Before anyone mentions that there are some anti-ganking methods available, most PVE players won't have access to them or even know about them because of ZOS's aforesaid refusal to facilitate mode switching.
IC was dead because it w as s the first DLC and that makes it about 5years old not because of ganking. It was very lively when first released but with 4 dlcs a year that obviously won't always be the way.
Getting ganked is one of the fundamentals of pvp of pvp, it happens to everyone. I'm not sure why this is such a deterrent, you die in pve, why can't you die in pvp? It doesn't matter if the ESO player base is mostly pve PVP is there and it has rules. You do get to tell players no when their main complaint is one of the cornerstones of the game type and how it is played. You can't take ganking out of pvp just like you can't take out bosses from pve. Acting like this is a valid claim is also absurd.
You did hit the nail on the head though, PVP is a different playstyle and mindset and it is meant to cater to the better players. That's why you constantly hear "git gud", that's what every capable pvper has had to do. You need to regear, adapt your playstyle, and be ready for anything. If you're not willing to meet those requirements then you're going to have a bad time. The same goes for pve, you have to do the same things.
This also has nothing to do with the developer, it is strictly with the player, which is why pvp is so despised. You have to look at what you did wrong and learn from it. You can't just whine and cry until mechanics are made easier because pvpers have no mechanics. Your opponent can think for themselves and doesn't stick to a set movement pattern. The more you play the more you get better.
"* Before anyone mentions that there are some anti-ganking methods available, most PVE players won't have access to them or even know about them because of ZOS's aforesaid refusal to facilitate mode switching."
LOL oh buddy, buddy, you can buy any of these sets on the guild stores and you can level up things like magelight well before you ever step foot into pvp. This is no different then getting geared for dungeons in pve but to prove your point you have to lie. You 100% can get these before you ever enter pvp.3 -
StormChaser3000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Remove telvar loss upon death. A horde of pve players will rush after telvar, and PvP can go hunting AP.3 -
RPGplayer13579✭✭✭✭Make it easy for PvEers to group up together in large groups. Safety in numbers. I would be in one of those groups myself.My Characters.
Mike Snow - Imperial - Templar - One-Handed and Shield - Tank - Daggerfall Covenant - Commander.
Catelyn Rivers - Breton - Sorcerer - Destruction Staff - Daggerfall Covenant - Telvanni Magister.
Ashara Sand - Redguard - Warden - Two-Handed/One-Handed and Shield - Daggerfall Covenant - Heroic.
Tormund gro-Largash - Orsimer - Dragonknight - Two-Handed - Daggerfall Covenant - Furious.
Lysa Rivers - Breton - Nightblade - Bow/One-Handed and Shield - Vampire - Daggerfall Covenant - Brassy Assassin.
Jon Karstark - Nord - Dragonknight - Two-Handed - Ebonheart Pact - Drunk.
Arya Sand - Dunmer - Dragonknight - Dual Wield - Ebonheart Pact - Assassin.
Sansa Snow - Impeial - Warden - Destruction Staff/One-Handed and Shield - Ebonheart Pect - Swashbuckler.
Jojen Reed-Walker - Argonian - Templar - Restoration Staff - Healer - Ebonheart Pact - Melancholy.
Alys Karstark - Nord - Nightblade - Bow/Dual Wield - Ebonheart Pact - Minstrel.
Nymeria Woods - Bosmer - Nightblade - Bow - Aldmeri Dominion - Thief.
Brandon Wings - Altmer - Templar - Restoration Staff - Healer - Aldmeri Dominion - Scholar.
Lyanna Flowers - Altmer - Sorcerer - Sword/Destruction Staff - Aldmeri Dominion - Duchess.
Marvolo-jo Riddle - Khajiit - Necromancer - Destruction Staff - Aldmeri Dominion - Deadlands Firewalker.
Obara Woods - Bosmer - Templar - Bow - Werewolf - Aldmeri Dominion - Cheerful.0 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Allow queueing for 1v1v1.
Have some kind of system where your accumulated wins and losses is converted into a ranking value that sorts you into a league. And you only fight people in the same league.
So obviously new people all start in an entry level league and if they are lousy they just stay there, fighting equally lousy people.
People who like a particular build can inch up to where the build plus their skill is good and stay in that league without having to chase whatever is OP/unbalanced at the moment (which also requires that you do not skew rewards too much for being in a "higher" league).
IF the ranking works properly, people in a league (except maybe highest and lowest tiers), should always get decent, exciting fights where they have a chance to win or lose.
*
As for open world PvP stuff -- the devs must play the live server. Just as they must maintain a Guild and have the live experience of scrambling for a Guild Store.
I really don't think they do either.Edited by Dusk_Coven on September 14, 2019 3:51AM1 -
Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
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Ahh yes, I was also seeing such things happening, where questers of different factions would not fight, and even try to help each other as much as possible.I just kept running back and continuing. Even had one DC and one EP help me complete the last door without killing me so I could finish it (thanks guys!).
Takes persistence and unwavering stubborness to get it done no matter what.
I did not waste any more of my time after the first few attempts, since it was just to see how things look like during the event.
I'll go back and finish the MQ on my mule alt after the event ends and IC is back to being dead outside of primetime
But my point is... IMO, this is just poor zone design.
The MQ you only have to do once per character (in fact, you can only do it once per character!), yet the way it's designed to function is seriously dubious, not to say outright sociopathic. The Arena especially so, because of the PvP achievement tied to it.
You know your zone/game design is quite crappy, when "give up for now and try again several hours later" is pretty high up on the list of possible ways of dealing with it. Edited by Major_Lag on September 14, 2019 3:55AM0 -
xeha_arwen11✭✭✭✭So you want to extend an olive branch to PvErs and you start by insulting them in passive agressive way? XD
This. The OP is expressing typical PvP attitude. They seem to think that people need to be incorrigible, vicious terrible people in order to "make it" in the PvP world. This is ludicrous.
ZOS needs to get some game masters or someone over there. It's truly disgusting. Today alone I was in IC, and in a short space I heard multiple, "your mother's a ****", and I saw people typing graphic awful things that I cannot repeat here; they were making fun of homosexuals, trans persons, women, minorities, etc. Really messed up stuff. And of course the teabagging, and they talked about sexually assaulting and WORSE. This is not acceptable. Not in the least. People who PvP need to learn how to act like decent human beings. Then maybe regular PvE'ers will want to join. Mind you, there's a considerable amount of PvE'ers who are terrible and rude, but it is just so much worse in PvP.
Edited by xeha_arwen11 on September 14, 2019 3:59AM5 -
MaleAmazon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Only way to fix it is to implement actual newbie PvP where you can only play with other newbie PvPers. Not sure how to implement that. Maybe implement a separate campaign, and make it so that if you have >100 hours PvP total, you cannot take any character there.0 -
Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
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To be fair, it's like this mostly because of the event, which - for some unfathomable reason - acts as the drain hole for all of the scum of human society.xeha_arwen11 wrote: »ZOS needs to get some game masters or someone over there. It's truly disgusting. Today alone I was in IC, and in a short space I heard multiple, "your mother's a ****", and (...)
Outside of the event it's a lot more reasonable. Then again, outside the event, IC is mostly dead... 3 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »If you get rid of tel var you lose all purpose for the heart of IC, killing the zone. Just because some people find the zone to be toxic doesn't mean it is, especially when these people seem to have the least experience in the zone. You're not going to change the toxic part of the experience which is the ganking. People are still going to gank other people and you're still going to see the same people complaining they got killed in the sewers on the way to the boss. They just won't have the TV excuse to crutch them.
Yes, Tel Var is part of the zone flavour. But it makes the ganking worse combined with the small space. It encourages banditry.
So then you have three crowds:
(1) people who do the math for Tel Var or event tickets or whatever -- "For my time, I can get what I want in a faster and more productive way."
(2) people who are there to be bandits -- "It doesn't matter that everyone can get more Tel Var by farming the monsters and leaving each other alone. I prefer to rob it from others."
(3) I want to challenge myself against other players. -- don't know why they don't do BGs then. Or maybe we should be able to queue 1v1v1.
I think most people who eventually leave the IC are in (1).
Most of the toxic people are in (2) and from their choice of how to behave in the zone, it's practically a given.
Sure, Tel Var loss is part of the zone identity, BUT ZOS doesn't say we HAVE TO PvP there. We could be smart and civilized and fight the common enemy. Or just fight over the district flags if you wanted your faction to have more.
*
An interesting change to the IC would be to let the monster population keep rising and get tougher while the Tel Var available from monster kills reduces (spread it out over the increased population). This would represent the daedra getting a stronger foothold. Add more traps and stealth detection and stealthed enemies. Give their lowest-level expendable forward troops (scamps and other trash) expanded stealth detection. That's what they're there for anyway -- to flush out the baddies so the heavy guns can move in.
Edited by Dusk_Coven on September 14, 2019 4:14AM1 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaleAmazon wrote: »Only way to fix it is to implement actual newbie PvP where you can only play with other newbie PvPers. Not sure how to implement that. Maybe implement a separate campaign, and make it so that if you have >100 hours PvP total, you cannot take any character there.
100 hours of pvp is a lot even for pvpers. Is this going to be per character or per account. What happens if you're bad and you have more than 100 hours in pvp?
All of this trouble and effort just so people can avoid being told to get better at a game type. Imagine if you put the effort into pvp that you put into making up reasons you died in pvp.0 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭[Rave the Histborn wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »I'm both a PvPer and PvEr. I get where both sides are coming from. That being said, with IC, the solution to getting more people in there is something that many other PvPers won't like. Get rid of Tel Var loss on getting killed by other players. The overwhelming amount of Tel Var created in the zone is from PvE objectives. But the overwhelming loss of it is from getting ganked when you're already low health, or getting steamrolled by a large group of players. The gankers and bombers who can take large amounts of tel var from players at no risk to themselves, slink off and bank it all, and then rinse and repeat, are why the zone is practically dead. The PvE play is doing all the work, and the PvP playing is usually stealing a significant amount of the rewards, at little to no risk to themselves. It's just poor zone design.
If you still keep the tel var loss from getting killed by bosses, mobs, etc., the zone still has it's risk:reward balance for most players, but as long as the zone heavily rewards trolling and griefing, the majority of people will stay out. The balance is currently tipped in the favor of a playstyle that most players find toxic, so until that is changed, there's not much PvPers can do to make the zone more welcoming. Advocating for changes to eliminate that sort of behavior is really all they can do, and many of the people that frequent the zone already are guilty of that exact behavior, so they're unlikely to support making changes.
If you get rid of tel var you lose all purpose for the heart of IC, killing the zone.
And it usually so... lively!
3 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭[Rave the Histborn wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »I'm both a PvPer and PvEr. I get where both sides are coming from. That being said, with IC, the solution to getting more people in there is something that many other PvPers won't like. Get rid of Tel Var loss on getting killed by other players. The overwhelming amount of Tel Var created in the zone is from PvE objectives. But the overwhelming loss of it is from getting ganked when you're already low health, or getting steamrolled by a large group of players. The gankers and bombers who can take large amounts of tel var from players at no risk to themselves, slink off and bank it all, and then rinse and repeat, are why the zone is practically dead. The PvE play is doing all the work, and the PvP playing is usually stealing a significant amount of the rewards, at little to no risk to themselves. It's just poor zone design.
If you still keep the tel var loss from getting killed by bosses, mobs, etc., the zone still has it's risk:reward balance for most players, but as long as the zone heavily rewards trolling and griefing, the majority of people will stay out. The balance is currently tipped in the favor of a playstyle that most players find toxic, so until that is changed, there's not much PvPers can do to make the zone more welcoming. Advocating for changes to eliminate that sort of behavior is really all they can do, and many of the people that frequent the zone already are guilty of that exact behavior, so they're unlikely to support making changes.
If you get rid of tel var you lose all purpose for the heart of IC, killing the zone.
And it usually so... lively!
There's usually people and groups in IC still, more than you'd think. Do you think hakeijos just magically show up on guild stores? XD It'll never be as lively as launch but with the free dlc and how many people I see in there hopefully we'll even see a population increase.1 -
SeanBlader✭✭✭InvictusApollo wrote: »I've created this thread so that people - all people: both PvPers and PvErs could post their ideas on how to make PvP more inviting and friendly for PvErs. I'll post my idea in a seperate thread.
You can remove the time investment in starting, and you can remove the penalties for winning or losing.
So make it so whatever build you have and armor you have it doesn't matter because they're all evenly matched. Also, make it so that there's less time involved to get started so you don't feel like you've spent months, weeks, days, or even hours getting into a PvP game. Then make sure that there's no penalty for dying. Also, make sure that you don't have to aim, because I'm not going to practice my Aim Hero for weeks just to git gud.
You could also remove empathy from the players. I don't like to PvP, because I don't like to lose, and I don't want anyone else to feel that way should I happen to fat finger the right sequence of buttons like a monkey writing Shakespeare.0 -
SydneyGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It would help if they could find a way to prevent gankers from targeting PvE-ers all day long to the point where they make it difficult for them to get their event tickets. That's the only issue I have with it. I don't mind gankers targeting people, I only mind if it's a case where several camp out specifically to prevent people from getting their event tickets. That's just a flat-out lousy thing to do. Not sure what ZOS can do about it, though.0 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »[Rave the Histborn wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »I'm both a PvPer and PvEr. I get where both sides are coming from. That being said, with IC, the solution to getting more people in there is something that many other PvPers won't like. Get rid of Tel Var loss on getting killed by other players. The overwhelming amount of Tel Var created in the zone is from PvE objectives. But the overwhelming loss of it is from getting ganked when you're already low health, or getting steamrolled by a large group of players. The gankers and bombers who can take large amounts of tel var from players at no risk to themselves, slink off and bank it all, and then rinse and repeat, are why the zone is practically dead. The PvE play is doing all the work, and the PvP playing is usually stealing a significant amount of the rewards, at little to no risk to themselves. It's just poor zone design.
If you still keep the tel var loss from getting killed by bosses, mobs, etc., the zone still has it's risk:reward balance for most players, but as long as the zone heavily rewards trolling and griefing, the majority of people will stay out. The balance is currently tipped in the favor of a playstyle that most players find toxic, so until that is changed, there's not much PvPers can do to make the zone more welcoming. Advocating for changes to eliminate that sort of behavior is really all they can do, and many of the people that frequent the zone already are guilty of that exact behavior, so they're unlikely to support making changes.
If you get rid of tel var you lose all purpose for the heart of IC, killing the zone.
And it usually so... lively!
There's usually people and groups in IC still, more than you'd think. Do you think hakeijos just magically show up on guild stores? XD It'll never be as lively as launch but with the free dlc and how many people I see in there hopefully we'll even see a population increase.
Is that where hakeijos come from? Thanks for explaining that to me. I'll file it away in my brain under "things I already knew".3 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ez...make cyrodill a PvE area...and enable overworld Pvp...everybody benefits!0 -
DracoKaiser✭✭✭✭Better Performance and put all Trolls away! 😉Gildenchef von Draco Imperia
PvP-Raidleader0