Is Shield requisite for Tanking?

Araneae6537 · September 2019

It makes sense that a shield would allow for blocking the most damage, but it also has the only taunt ability that I am aware of, besides ice staff with tri-focus (and I get the impression from what I’ve read that the frost staff taunt is not desirable).

I rather like the idea of a magicka rather than stamina focused tank, keeping enemies in place and vulnerable with ice and lightning, but of course keeping aggro is essential.

I thought I’d ask in case I missed something and shield is just most popular. Thank you!

cjhhickman39 · September 2019

Undaunted skill line (inner fire) is a range magicka based taunt

cjhhickman39 · September 2019

Also if you do pugs you may find yourself kicked before you have a chance to say anything because they don’t see the sword and shield
To many fake tanks out there

VaranisArano · September 2019

No, but it has a lot of benefits.

1H&S offers the easiest access to debuffs like Major Fracture, Major Breach, and Maim.

If you chose not to run 1H&S on a serious tank, I'd recommend using Inner Fire as your Taunt, and seriously planning out how you will provide major fracture and breach to your group.

(This may be personal preference, but even on my Ice staff tanks, I like Inner Fire in case I make a timing error with the ice staff heavy attack.)

redspecter23 · September 2019

If you're pugging, it's probably best to have a sword and board on a bar so you look the part. Many easier dungeons don't have huge requirements, but you may very well be vote kicked if you don't at least look like a tank.

I'd say that someone is a tank if they are qualified to tank the content they are doing. In easier content, I'd say staying alive and taunting the bosses is the bare minimum to be considered a tank. In harder content, this may require more of an investment in tank gear and skills and for even harder content I may want a bit more out of a tank than a single taunt and the ability to stay alive. Debuffs, buffs, etc.

Urzigurumash · September 2019

The aspirant Duel Staff Tank would do well to roll a NB to use Mark Target to apply Major Fracture and Breach, or a DK or Warden, to use Noxious Breath / Sub Assault to apply Major Fracture, and Weakness to Elements to apply Major Breach.

To my knowledge these are the only means of applying Major Fracture and Breach by one toon besides Pierce Armor. Considering that this hypothetical NB / DK / Warden Duel Staff Tank must also use Inner Rage or the sluggish Ice Heavy Attack to apply Taunt, you can see how much more quickly and efficiently a Tank can taunt and apply Major Breach and Fracture using a Sword & Board than with anything else.

Major Fracture and Breach are of course not absolutely necessary, but they are so helpful, and so readily available to the overwhelming majority of tanks, that I think you will find groups at a certain level of experience will grow impatient with a tank not using Pierce Armor.

Xvorg · September 2019

ErinM31 wrote: »

It makes sense that a shield would allow for blocking the most damage, but it also has the only taunt ability that I am aware of, besides ice staff with tri-focus (and I get the impression from what I’ve read that the frost staff taunt is not desirable).

I rather like the idea of a magicka rather than stamina focused tank, keeping enemies in place and vulnerable with ice and lightning, but of course keeping aggro is essential.

I thought I’d ask in case I missed something and shield is just most popular. Thank you!

It could be possible, but you must look for a class that:

1. has access to buffs
2. has access to some desirable debuffs

Since you're not using puncture and neither is a good idea just to rely on weakness to elements, the only class that I think could do it just with magicka is NB. You know, mark target, dark cloak, path, debilitate (good way to provide minor magickasteal), dark shades, Bolstering darkness, path, strife, sap essence, some very interesting passives, etc.

Will that tank be competitive? I don't think so, but it will be quite fun.

msalvia · September 2019

While it may not be strictly required--and I'm sure there are some viable builds that don't use it--1h and shield is the perfect tank weapon. If you don't use it, you're paying a serious opportunity cost. Here's why:

1. Using a shield in a weapon slot gives you more armor and defensive stats (which tanks need) at the expense of some offensive stats (which tanks do not need)
2. SnB passives allow you to block more damage, move more quickly while blocking, defense against projectiles, etc. No set of weapons passives are so perfectly aligned with the tank role.
3. SnB skills provide a ton of utility for tanks--the most reliable taunt in puncture, which also grants Major Fracture and Major Breach; maim and ult gen in heroic slash; more block mitigation and projectile defense in absorb magic.

Frost staff does provide similar benefits, but blocking is a bit worse on an ice staff vs SnB.

But with all that said, tanks are irrelevant in normal dungeons and only needed for taunt in normal trials. But for vets (mostly DLCs and trials), most players are gonna be reasonably skeptical of tank that isn't running SnB.

TheRealPotoroo · September 2019

ErinM31 wrote: »

It makes sense that a shield would allow for blocking the most damage, but it also has the only taunt ability that I am aware of, besides ice staff with tri-focus (and I get the impression from what I’ve read that the frost staff taunt is not desirable).

I rather like the idea of a magicka rather than stamina focused tank, keeping enemies in place and vulnerable with ice and lightning, but of course keeping aggro is essential.

I thought I’d ask in case I missed something and shield is just most popular. Thank you!

There are four taunts in the game, three of which are accessible and two of which are useful. 1H&S has one of the two good ones, Puncture (stam) > Pierce Armour (stam). It's not ranged but that's what things like Fiery Chains are for. The Undaunted line has Inner Fire (mag) > Inner Rage (mag) or Inner Beast (stam) which are ranged. Heavy attacks with Ice Staves also taunt but they're not one of the two good options. Strictly speaking there's a fourth taunt but you need five pieces of the Tormentor set which you only get from the Banished Cells dungeon.

Pierce Armor not only taunts but applies Major Fracture and Breach for 15 seconds, which is an important group buff. Not having it is a big deal.

CynicK · September 2019

Is what msalvia said it gives you more resistance thanks to a champion points perk and the shield itself, you can block more damage thanks to the sword and bord passive and defensive stance, it has been capped now at 90% but it is a huge reduction in damage when blocking that you cannot get from a frost staff.

Then you get nice utilities like the shield form defensive stance, the taunt but you can use inner fire to taunt if you are using a staff as others have said but ransak gives you minor protection what reduces by 8% the damage you take and then the maim from low slash with all that the bosses do not do a lot of damage.

Let's say that i think you could tank normal dungeons with a staff but i see it more difficult the veteran dungeons let's say that tanking with 1h and shield is easy when I think you would had a harder time with a staff.

Rungar · September 2019

necromancer has the best setup for a no shield tank if you use frost staves and inner fire.

OG_Kaveman · September 2019

Rungar wrote: »

necromancer has the best setup for a no shield tank if you use frost staves and inner fire.

to expand on why this is it, it is because of unnerving boneyard. the only source of aoe major fracture and breach in the game.

VaranisArano · September 2019

ErinM31 wrote: »

Wow, thank you all so much for the insightful replies and suggestions!!!! Certainly, I will get experience in harder content before I try tanking it, but it helps very much to better understand the mechanics and what I might try in leveling characters that I would like to play as tanks.

It sounds like I should be sure to have S&B leveled and skill points allocated just in case even if I want to try double staves and inner fire when the situation allows. For such a set-up, could I have magicka be my main attribute rather than stamina (of course a number of points will still need to go in health). I know I would need enough to block and break free (the cost of which I can reduce with CP) but also to use S&B puncture — does the efficacy S&B from a tanking perspective scale with stamina like DPS would?

The scaling isnt quite as bad for tanks, generally because a full tank needs a mix of abilities. Tanks need to be able to use CC, buffs, their taunt, debuffs, and block. Depending on class, you may be using mostly stamina, mostly magicka, or a mix of both.

So for tanks, its more about being able to sustain your resources for the abilities you use, and which abilities you use will depend to some degree on your class/build.

For example: As a MagDK, I have a higher magicka pool to fuel my CC, damage, and defense abilities, but pay more attention to managing my smaller stamina pool to be able to block, taunt, and use my 1H&S skills when I need to.

Major_Lag · September 2019

The biggest problem with no-shield tanking is that unless you can provide Major Fracture from another source, the stamina players in your group aren't going to be too thrilled about your performance as a tank (because you are not debuffing the target's resistance for them)

Some classes (NB and Necro, for example) have class access to Major Fracture, so you can use that.

Major Breach you can get from Elemental Drain, so that's not an issue in principle.

Another issue is that ice staff doesn't have a comparable mobility passive to SnB's, so you are moving very slowly when blocking.

SirMewser · September 2019

ErinM31 wrote: »

It makes sense that a shield would allow for blocking the most damage, but it also has the only taunt ability that I am aware of, besides ice staff with tri-focus (and I get the impression from what I’ve read that the frost staff taunt is not desirable).

I rather like the idea of a magicka rather than stamina focused tank, keeping enemies in place and vulnerable with ice and lightning, but of course keeping aggro is essential.

I thought I’d ask in case I missed something and shield is just most popular. Thank you!

So as others have mentioned, you do have access to Inner Fire from Undaunted.

Frost staff heavy attacks apply a shield and a taunt.
Any source of frost damage has a chance (depending on that source being single target, AoE, DoT, enchantment, etc...) to apply Minor Maim.
Major Breach can also come from; Weakness to Elements, NB - Mark Target, Warden - Deep Fissure, Necro - Grave Yard.
Major Fracture can also come from; NB - Mark Target, Warden - Subterranean Assault, DK - Noxious Breath, Necro - Grave Yard.
As a 2H weapon that frost staff is, an infused trait with the crusher enchantment is something you have better potency with than a 1H & Shield.
Wall of frost provides CC via frost damage, enemies are snared/slowed and when they are chilled, they become immobilized.
Maybe consider Pulsar to apply Minor Mangle to reduce mobs health by 10%.
Just because you're using a frost staff doesn't mean you can't access other essential and amazing skills like; meditate, undo, bone shield, balance, or ring of preservation.
Elemental Drain makes it possible to recover magic (which is otherwise stunned while blocking) while say, wall of elements is up (furthermore if you backbar WoE with infused magic drain enchantment). This is much harder to do with 1H & shield.
Frost staff puts off pressure on your stamina pool so you can focus more on dodge, bash and CC break.
There are several sets that aid frost based tanking; frozen watcher, ice heart, permafrost, maybe mighty glacier... All else are light armour sets.
Being a Warden gives you much much more in the frost department.

It's not great but hopefully this gives you some inspiration because what it comes down to is that it's simply different.

Araneae6537 · September 2019

Wow, thank you all so much for the insightful replies and suggestions!!!!

Certainly, I will get experience in harder content before I try tanking it, but it helps very much to better understand the mechanics and what I might try in leveling characters that I would like to play as tanks.

It sounds like I should be sure to have S&B leveled and skill points allocated just in case even if I want to try double staves and inner fire when the situation allows. For such a set-up, could I have magicka be my main attribute rather than stamina (of course a number of points will still need to go in health). I know I would need enough to block and break free (the cost of which I can reduce with CP) but also to use S&B puncture — does the efficacy S&B from a tanking perspective scale with stamina like DPS would?

Rungar · September 2019

you can choose either stam or mag " to block" with the destruction staff passives. One passive gives you extra blocking with frost staves and the other one converts blocking to magicka.

InvictusApollo · September 2019

I've been tanking nonDLC vet and normal dungeons without a shield and in a tanky PvP build so: no, you do not need a shield for that.

Drako_Ei · September 2019

Tanks not applying major breach/fracture gets kicked from vet dlc.

Other than that, play how you want

zvavi · September 2019

Drako_Ei wrote: »

Tanks not applying major breach/fracture gets kicked from vet dlc.

Other than that, play how you want

I dont apply fracture if the team is full mag. Kick me

Ysbriel · September 2019

The quick answer is yes and use “inner fire”.

Most of the time that i’ve been on a PUG the “you don’t need a shield” crew end up being the worst tanks running.

Elwendryll · September 2019

You can get away with not using a shield in a part of the dungeons, but why would you miss on the opportunity tu use cool shield styles on your outfit? Shields are cool.

FrancisCrawford · September 2019

Drako_Ei wrote: »

Tanks not applying major breach/fracture gets kicked from vet dlc.

What if the group contains one or more necros?

The Elder Scrolls Online

Is Shield requisite for Tanking?

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