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Onslaught + Jabs = Healthy Gameplay?
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I was gonna comment on this thread, but I keep getting perma-silenced by all the templars!
We really gunna have a sorc complain about silence?
Really?
Negate can be countered just by dodge rolling out of it. Perma-Eclipse can't be countered at all, and the Templar can just keep applying it.
How did Templars end up with a Silence spell that is more powerful and useful than an ultimate?#CAREBEARMASTERRACE9 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, if you are getting caught by all of that and not knowing to get the hell out of the way with the big beem sticking out your head, I can't imagine you avoiding onslaught with shalks and dizzy swing right into an executioner either.2 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Tbh onslaught on its on is strong but for most classes people can normally get away. What feels strong on my templar is the ability to stack and negate counters. This is a game of counters. Things like block, dodgeroll, streak, shields, cloak, healing, CC, movement speed and resistance.
For instance my sweeps/jabs alone counter dodgeroll, movement speed and cloak. It can also counter shields, healing and block. All in one gcd.
Add in my purge, backlash, eclipse, rune and onslaught, I have options to counter nearly everything. Other classes are much more 1 dimensional which gives me the advantage.8 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »
For instance my sweeps/jabs alone counter dodgeroll, movement speed and cloak. It can also counter shields, healing and block. All in one gcd.
Uhh...what? If someone dodge rolls through you, what are those jabs doing?
You do realize that the snare on jabs is on the last hit? Do you know what happens if a faster player is moving away from you while you jabbing?
How the hell is it a counter to shields and healing? Because it does damage? Breaking news; damage counters healing.
This sounds like someone who has a templar but has not actually used it much. Or one of the new templars out there that have a false sense of getting carried. I am glad to have the later as they are mostly free AP to anyone that knows how to fight a templar without crutching on DOTs.Edited by technohic on September 4, 2019 1:29PM5 -
EtTuBrutus✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I was gonna comment on this thread, but I keep getting perma-silenced by all the templars!
We really gunna have a sorc complain about silence?
Really?
Negate can be countered just by dodge rolling out of it. Perma-Eclipse can't be countered at all, and the Templar can just keep applying it.
How did Templars end up with a Silence spell that is more powerful and useful than an ultimate?
Wtf are u talking about... templars don't silence.1 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »
For instance my sweeps/jabs alone counter dodgeroll, movement speed and cloak. It can also counter shields, healing and block. All in one gcd.
Uhh...what? If someone dodge rolls through you, what are those jabs doing?
You do realize that the snare on jabs is on the last hit? Do you know what happens if a faster player is moving away from you while you jabbing?
How the hell is it a counter to shields and healing? Because it does damage? Breaking news; damage counters healing.
This sounds like someone who has a templar but has not actually used it much. Or one of the new templars out there that have a false sense of getting carried. I am glad to have the later as they are mostly free AP to anyone that knows how to fight a templar without crutching on DOTs.
What if someone is upstairs while you use jabs downstairs?
Poorly thought out questions, deserve no answer. Lol
And of course it snares on the last hit. Does that mean it doesn't have a snare? Lol. And as for shields and healing, I bolded it out the "can" just for a Sherlock like yourself.
I'm having great success with jabs. If you're missing your last hit and opponents are roll dodging behind you and killing you don't blame me. Templars are in a great spot rn.Edited by Royalthought on September 4, 2019 1:52PM3 -
Heimpai✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »
For instance my sweeps/jabs alone counter dodgeroll, movement speed and cloak. It can also counter shields, healing and block. All in one gcd.
Uhh...what? If someone dodge rolls through you, what are those jabs doing?
You do realize that the snare on jabs is on the last hit? Do you know what happens if a faster player is moving away from you while you jabbing?
How the hell is it a counter to shields and healing? Because it does damage? Breaking news; damage counters healing.
This sounds like someone who has a templar but has not actually used it much. Or one of the new templars out there that have a false sense of getting carried. I am glad to have the later as they are mostly free AP to anyone that knows how to fight a templar without crutching on DOTs.
What if someone is upstairs while you use jabs downstairs?
Poorly thought out questions, deserve no answer. Lol
And of course it snares on the last hit. Does that mean it doesn't have a snare? Lol. And as for shields and healing, I bolded it out the "can" just for a Sherlock like yourself.
I'm having great success with jabs. If you're missing your last hit and opponents are roll dodging behind you and killing you don't blame me. Templars are in a great spot rn.
You made it sound like they are stupidly OP, my stamden has more burst, better healing and a mag regen+purge built in (and it’s free cost)2 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »
For instance my sweeps/jabs alone counter dodgeroll, movement speed and cloak. It can also counter shields, healing and block. All in one gcd.
Uhh...what? If someone dodge rolls through you, what are those jabs doing?
You do realize that the snare on jabs is on the last hit? Do you know what happens if a faster player is moving away from you while you jabbing?
How the hell is it a counter to shields and healing? Because it does damage? Breaking news; damage counters healing.
This sounds like someone who has a templar but has not actually used it much. Or one of the new templars out there that have a false sense of getting carried. I am glad to have the later as they are mostly free AP to anyone that knows how to fight a templar without crutching on DOTs.
What if someone is upstairs while you use jabs downstairs?
Poorly thought out questions, deserve no answer. Lol
And of course it snares on the last hit. Does that mean it doesn't have a snare? Lol. And as for shields and healing, I bolded it out the "can" just for a Sherlock like yourself.
I'm having great success with jabs. If you're missing your last hit and opponents are roll dodging behind you and killing you don't blame me. Templars are in a great spot rn.
You made it sound like they are stupidly OP, my stamden has more burst, better healing and a mag regen+purge built in (and it’s free cost)
Nah. I simply was being honest. I made no mention of being over or under powered.
There isn't one lie in my post. "Stupidly OP" is actually your quote. Where does that come from?3 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd consider the current versions of Onslaught, Dizzying Swing, and Jabs to all be overpowered, even independently of each other. But Stamplar can combine all 3, along with Power of the Light, which has been really strong for a very long time. The burst damage that the class can achieve right now is truly silly, and needs to change (and no, they aren't the only ones...but they've become ultra-common in BGs for a reason).
Edit:
Before anyone gets their undies in a bunch, I'm not saying "Nerf Stamplar into the ground!" or any such nonsense. While I do think things need to be adjusted downwards, that doesn't mean made useless.Edited by wheem_ESO on September 4, 2019 2:40PM4 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hiya,
So we've all had time to experience most builds introduced thanks to the Scalebreaker changes. Dizzying Swing, Onslaught, the DoT buffs, such abilities are all separately fine in vacuum and are usually manageable in actual scenarios in my experience. One combination of skills that had me scratching my head in bafflement is Onslaught + Jabs (+Power of the Light). It's a combo that pretty much has no real counterplay since you'll first be gently introduced to a 30% snare from ER, then set Offbalance and stunned by the most annoying Gap Closer in existence. By the time you're on your feet, you've got a 70% snare and can't escape the Templar's warm and loving embrace, because they can Gap Close whenever. Suddenly you're tapped on the head by a lovely 7k-9k Onslaught and Power of the Light explodes for anything between 8k-10k, and each Jab starts hitting for 3k-4k + Burning Light. Let's not forget that Templars have the easiest access to Major Savagery.
You can't dodge roll because you'll be taking full damage, you can't kite the Templar like you would a DK using Corrosive because they can Gap Close, stun, and snare you with ease. Most run Quick Cloak or RAT anyway. Blocking is pointless and not even Vigor + Cauterize + Lingering Potions + Major Mending can save your hide from Onslaught-buffed Jabs. At this point, it's advisable to leave your seat and grab a glass of water.
So, I'm eager to know the community's experience with Stamplars running this sort of setup (literally all of them). Is this combo fine ("balanced") and how do you deal with them?I'd consider the current versions of Onslaught, Dizzying Swing, and Jabs to all be overpowered, even independently of each other. But Stamplar can combine all 3, along with Power of the Light, which has been really strong for a very long time. The burst damage that the class can achieve right now is truly silly, and needs to change (and no, they aren't the only ones...but they've become ultra-common in BGs for a reason).
Edit:
Before anyone gets their undies in a bunch, I'm not saying "Nerf Stamplar into the ground!" or any such nonsense. While I do think things need to be adjusted downwards, that doesn't mean made useless.
Implying that zos can do that. Onslaught is easily avoidable with big punishment if you can't avoid it. That's fair. Potl should be damage from caster only but it should crit. Jabs is easily one of the most avoidable melee skills in the game. It's just a matter of rolling through your opponent and not backwards and eating an entire channel of jabs. Even if cc'd, you should be able to break and roll through before you die which will allow you to reset the fight. If you are, maybe you should revisit your build or technique. The reason why they have gained popularity in bgs is because of the gain in popularity of overturned dots. As far as healing is concerned, they are simply outclassed by stam dks and wardens by a lot.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.3 -
Bluestin✭✭✭I've definitely noticed this as well. Onslaught is over-tuned at the moment; the uptime of the ability will probably be reduced in the next patch. The particular combo with Stamplar is actually quite potent; possibly overly so when combined with Power of the Light and Jabs (Without Onslaught this combo feels more reasonable output wise)
I feel that the onus lies in Onslaught more so than on Stamplar's class abilities though. I hear rumor that certain damage over time abilities will have their damage reduced as well so that may help reign in the potency of this particular skill combination.3 -
Gatdangmayne✭✭✭✭
Let's purposefully ignore anything mentioned about PoTL and Burning Light.If Onslaught into Jabs killed you, you would have lost to anything else, too.
Most of them are still running Lightning Staff + S&B. Outside of certain streamers or YouTubers, not many have made the switch. Whereas 2h is the default for the vast majority of Stamplar builds.You realize just as many magplars run it to right?
Which if you actually pvp you know which is deadlier
The problem is with the ability (Onslaught), not the class. It just synergises the best with it out of all class.
Who streams templars? I’d like to l2p honestly
And we need to bring awareness about dswing dsync, as a stamden main i know it’s Happening and makes me feel like a cheater
On the desync, i think it basically happens with any knockback combined with a certain amount of damage - but there's not many players that have both the build and the skill to actually pull off the combo.
Except for when things like dizzy and snipe are ridiculously overtuned where you can basically hit two of em with a light or heavy attack for 25k+
I used to get it from sorcs with the reach spam into a frag, or magblades with reach into merciless. All I'd see is nothing til 4000 flame balls come flying outta nowhere at once n then back to horse riding simulator
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montiferus✭✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »
Implying that zos can do that. Onslaught is easily avoidable with big punishment if you can't avoid it. That's fair. Potl should be damage from caster only but it should crit. Jabs is easily one of the most avoidable melee skills in the game. It's just a matter of rolling through your opponent and not backwards and eating an entire channel of jabs. Even if cc'd, you should be able to break and roll through before you die which will allow you to reset the fight. If you are, maybe you should revisit your build or technique. The reason why they have gained popularity in bgs is because of the gain in popularity of overturned dots. As far as healing is concerned, they are simply outclassed by stam dks and wardens by a lot.
Pretty much all of this! I especially like your POTL change. I don't think any Stamplar would take issue with that change.
I wonder if the people complaining in here have ever actually played stamplar at all let alone in a solo or small scale context.
My guess is no. If they did they would realize how hard it is to consistently land jabs and when you are solo POTL is not overturned at all and takes a lot more skill than any other brain dead execute in the game.0 -
montiferus✭✭✭✭✭Something most certainly needs to be done about the burst damage available to Stamina Templar right now. The combo isn't anything that's particularly difficult to set up, and the damage is really absurd. 'Course, LOLslaught and Dizzying Swing aren't class-specific abilities, and both could use some, shall we say...adjustments. But when you add in Power of the Light, which I've seen pop for over 7k in no-CP BGs, and a 1.1 second channel on Biting Jabs, which snares for 70% and can do another 5k+ damage, things get even more silly.
Only problem I´ve with Power of the Light and Purifying Light is that the damage that is accumilated stacks from all damage taken during it´s duration. I would really like to see that only the damage done from the caster is added to the final explosion.
That would be a fine change but it would need to be buffed in some way at that point. Like mentioned above allowing it to crit would be a fair compromise.1 -
montiferus✭✭✭✭✭Jabs to all be overpowered, even independently of each other. But Stamplar can combine all 3, along with Power of the Light, which has been really strong for a very long time. The burst damage that the class can achieve right now is truly silly, and needs to change (and no, they aren't the only ones...but they've become ultra-common in BGs for a reason)..
Jabs isn't over powered at all. Try playing the class first before complaining.1 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭montiferus wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »
Implying that zos can do that. Onslaught is easily avoidable with big punishment if you can't avoid it. That's fair. Potl should be damage from caster only but it should crit. Jabs is easily one of the most avoidable melee skills in the game. It's just a matter of rolling through your opponent and not backwards and eating an entire channel of jabs. Even if cc'd, you should be able to break and roll through before you die which will allow you to reset the fight. If you are, maybe you should revisit your build or technique. The reason why they have gained popularity in bgs is because of the gain in popularity of overturned dots. As far as healing is concerned, they are simply outclassed by stam dks and wardens by a lot.
Pretty much all of this! I especially like your POTL change. I don't think any Stamplar would take issue with that change.
I wonder if the people complaining in here have ever actually played stamplar at all let alone in a solo or small scale context.
My guess is no. If they did they would realize how hard it is to consistently land jabs and when you are solo POTL is not overturned at all and takes a lot more skill than any other brain dead execute in the game.
Thank you. I play solo medium stamplar. If there's anything medium will teach you, it's the glaring issues that a spec has. Running 5k+ weapon damage and 35k stam gives me a 27k vigor tooltip near a keep or resource. That may sound a lot until I throw the same setup on a dk or warden and now I have a 34k vigor tooltip without investing into anything but a single skill/passive. And the purge is no way op on a stamplar seeing that it costs 4k magic per cast. Which realistically means I can cast it every 10 seconds or so. 10 seconds is an eternity when multiple people are spamming cheap op dots on you from range.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
Luede✭✭✭✭✭montiferus wrote: »Jabs to all be overpowered, even independently of each other. But Stamplar can combine all 3, along with Power of the Light, which has been really strong for a very long time. The burst damage that the class can achieve right now is truly silly, and needs to change (and no, they aren't the only ones...but they've become ultra-common in BGs for a reason)..
Jabs isn't over powered at all. Try playing the class first before complaining.
like 30% of cyrodiil population? i bet temp is in a rly weak spot, thats why everyone played them.4 -
montiferus✭✭✭✭✭montiferus wrote: »Jabs to all be overpowered, even independently of each other. But Stamplar can combine all 3, along with Power of the Light, which has been really strong for a very long time. The burst damage that the class can achieve right now is truly silly, and needs to change (and no, they aren't the only ones...but they've become ultra-common in BGs for a reason)..
Jabs isn't over powered at all. Try playing the class first before complaining.
like 30% of cyrodiil population? i bet temp is in a rly weak spot, thats why everyone played them.
I've been playing the class long before it was the source of such criticism. Jabs isn't overpowered. I play in 2-4 man groups and I can assure you it isn't OP as its being made out to be. If you are a bad player then yes they can seem OP but if your bad everything will appear that way. Just get good. It is an approach that works well for anything in game or IRL.
Now is onslaught OP? Yes I would agree with that but it has nothing to do with stamplar. I'd gladly go back to DBOS if I could cancel it but ZOS in their infinite wisdom decided to lower the bar again so here we are.
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A Templar was jabbing me. He was doing damage until I found a rock. The rock pwned the jabs and the Templar died.
That's my experience against Templars this far3 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Something most certainly needs to be done about the burst damage available to Stamina Templar right now. The combo isn't anything that's particularly difficult to set up, and the damage is really absurd. 'Course, LOLslaught and Dizzying Swing aren't class-specific abilities, and both could use some, shall we say...adjustments. But when you add in Power of the Light, which I've seen pop for over 7k in no-CP BGs, and a 1.1 second channel on Biting Jabs, which snares for 70% and can do another 5k+ damage, things get even more silly.
Only problem I´ve with Power of the Light and Purifying Light is that the damage that is accumilated stacks from all damage taken during it´s duration. I would really like to see that only the damage done from the caster is added to the final explosion.
I’d take this if we could get major fracture for the duration and then minor fracture after the explosion.0 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭Something most certainly needs to be done about the burst damage available to Stamina Templar right now. The combo isn't anything that's particularly difficult to set up, and the damage is really absurd. 'Course, LOLslaught and Dizzying Swing aren't class-specific abilities, and both could use some, shall we say...adjustments. But when you add in Power of the Light, which I've seen pop for over 7k in no-CP BGs, and a 1.1 second channel on Biting Jabs, which snares for 70% and can do another 5k+ damage, things get even more silly.
Only problem I´ve with Power of the Light and Purifying Light is that the damage that is accumilated stacks from all damage taken during it´s duration. I would really like to see that only the damage done from the caster is added to the final explosion.
I’d take this if we could get major fracture for the duration and then minor fracture after the explosion.
Not a bad idea either. If the rumors are true, stamsorc will be getting that plus more with curse.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
steven22✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »A Templar was jabbing me. He was doing damage until I found a rock. The rock pwned the jabs and the Templar died.
That's my experience against Templars this far
That was a really bad one, huh ?Main - Char : Dandriil - Tamriel Hero, Explorer, Stormproof,Overlord
Nightblade since Beta , ESO Plus , PC EU
Proud Magicka Nightblade0 -
josh.lackey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Most of my deaths that feel "unfair" are still 90% nightblades, just like every other patch.
Templars are strong now, but they aren't the worst thing in the game by a long shot.2 -
Luckylancer✭✭✭✭✭2019 we see a stamplar nerf tread. Wow. Stamsorc nerf treads in 2020!
Counter plays: Block his ult (predictable with PotL)
Use s&b ult, stun him, heal+run in to him so he cant land jabs. Have a snare removal at hand. Dw cloak reduce damage too.
Use psijic ult or resto staff ult, stun, run in to him, RAT.
Streak away, he gap close, streak away, he gap close, streak away, he is out of mag. Kit with walking. You mag regen faster than him anyways.
L2P
Definition of L2P: posting nerf stamplar and stamsorc posts in pvp subsEdited by Luckylancer on September 9, 2019 2:29PM0 -
Vermethys✭✭✭✭Talk about being triggered.. I like how you concluded that this is a "NeRf StAmPlAr!!!1" post despite the primary question being:So, I'm eager to know the community's experience with Stamplars running this sort of setup (literally all of them). Is this combo fine ("balanced") and how do you deal with them?
And you dedicated a whole paragraph assuming I am (or whomever you think is screaming "nerf stamplarr!!") a Magicka Sorcerer.
It's the slower classes like StamDK that are screwed in this Templar meta.Luckylancer wrote: »Streak away, he gap close, streak away, he gap close, streak away, he is out of mag. Kit with walking. You mag regen faster than him anyways.
I appreciate the feedback, but please get off your high horse.
But apparently what I was advocating for was "nerf Stamplar"...The problem is with the ability (Onslaught), not the class. It just synergises the best with it out of all class.Edited by Vermethys on September 9, 2019 5:45PMPC EU CP1400+
In-game Username: Vermilion98
Characters & BuildsEdith Geonette [DC Imperial Sorcerer] (AR28)
Gorgo Aendovius [AD Imperial Dragonknight] (AR28)
My Builds:1 -
BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭Talk about being triggered.. I like how you concluded that this is a "NeRf StAmPlAr!!!1" post despite the primary question being:So, I'm eager to know the community's experience with Stamplars running this sort of setup (literally all of them). Is this combo fine ("balanced") and how do you deal with them?
And you dedicated a whole paragraph assuming I am (or whomever you think is screaming "nerf stamplarr!!") a Magicka Sorcerer.
It's the slower classes like StamDK that are screwed in this Templar meta.Luckylancer wrote: »Streak away, he gap close, streak away, he gap close, streak away, he is out of mag. Kit with walking. You mag regen faster than him anyways.
I appreciate the feedback, but please get off your high horse.
But apparently what I was advocating for was "nerf Stamplar"...The problem is with the ability (Onslaught), not the class. It just synergises the best with it out of all class.
Stam dk is the last class that needs to be worried about being slow, if anything they thrive sticking to their strengths. A better argument for them would be using purge but even then that hasn’t stopped stam dk from being a top solo/1vx spec
Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.2 -
ChunkyCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭All of these issues are resolved by removing CP.
Won’t have to change anything after that.
>,>
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