Onslaught + Jabs = Healthy Gameplay?

Vermethys

Hiya,


So we've all had time to experience most builds introduced thanks to the Scalebreaker changes. Dizzying Swing, Onslaught, the DoT buffs, such abilities are all separately fine in vacuum and are usually manageable in actual scenarios in my experience. One combination of skills that had me scratching my head in bafflement is Onslaught + Power of the Light + Jabs. It's a combo that pretty much has no real counterplay since you'll first be gently introduced to a 30% snare from ER, then set Offbalance and stunned by the most annoying Gap Closer in existence. By the time you're on your feet, you've got a 70% snare and can't escape the Templar's warm and loving embrace, because they can Gap Close whenever. Suddenly you're tapped on the head by a lovely 7k-9k Onslaught and Power of the Light explodes for anything between 8k-10k, and each Jab starts hitting for 3k-4k + Burning Light. Let's not forget that Templars have the easiest access to Major Savagery.

You can't dodge roll because you'll be taking full damage, you can't kite the Templar like you would a DK using Corrosive because they can Gap Close, stun, and snare you with ease. Most run Quick Cloak or RAT anyway. Blocking is pointless and not even Vigor + Cauterize + Lingering Potions + Major Mending can save your hide from Onslaught-buffed Jabs. At this point, it's advisable to leave your seat and grab a glass of water.

So, I'm eager to know the community's experience with Stamplars running this sort of setup (literally all of them). Is this combo fine ("balanced") and how do you deal with them?

Insco851

Templars.... Templars everywhere!

And yes. It’s a “fun time” for Plar I was told. Just a little “shine time” cuz they “deserve it”

80-90% of my death caps are just jabs from multiple attackers lately.

katorga

You can't dodge roll because you'll be taking full damage, you can't kite the Templar like you would a DK using Corrosive because they can Gap Close, stun, and snare you with ease.

I never knew DK's didn't have a gap closer, snares and the best stun in the game.

Other than jabs and PoL, they are not doing anything every other stam build in the game is doing.

Vapirko

As soon as you hear onslaught go off go on the defense, move out of the way of jabs and you’re good to go. Is it stupid yes, but people whined and got DBoS nerfed so that’s not really good anymore. Now Onslaught is the only reliable stamina ult so here we are. Stamplars as a class kind of hang on to viability by a thread. We keep getting nerfed and finding new ways to make it work. I do play one but I also play other classes, magicka as well, and no I don’t find Stamplars to be any more of a threat than other classes, less than some, onslaught or no.

Emma_Overload

I was gonna comment on this thread, but I keep getting perma-silenced by all the templars!

Kadoin

katorga wrote: »

You can't dodge roll because you'll be taking full damage, you can't kite the Templar like you would a DK using Corrosive because they can Gap Close, stun, and snare you with ease.

I never knew DK's didn't have a gap closer, snares and the best stun in the game.

Other than jabs and PoL, they are not doing anything every other stam build in the game is doing.

It's funny how he is acting like its exclusive to templar, every stam player using onslaught can do it. Esp. the ones in a zerg.

Insco851 wrote: »

Templars.... Templars everywhere!

And yes. It’s a “fun time” for Plar I was told. Just a little “shine time” cuz they “deserve it”

80-90% of my death caps are just jabs from multiple attackers lately.

More than soul trap and entropy? Ya'll stop playin'...

EDIT: cheap keyboard

Vermethys

katorga wrote: »

You can't dodge roll because you'll be taking full damage, you can't kite the Templar like you would a DK using Corrosive because they can Gap Close, stun, and snare you with ease.

I never knew DK's didn't have a gap closer, snares and the best stun in the game

They don't have an all-in-one Gap Closer and I've not seen more than a single StamDK using Fossilize post-Scalebreaker (I've been playing IC +BGs for hours daily). If they do, they are the kind of StamDK that dies within 3 seconds after a stun.

Ffastyl

The two main ways to shut down jabs are Major Evasion and stuns. Jabs is an AoE, even if it's only ever meant to be used as single target, and as such Major Evasion reduces it's damage by 25%. The other weakness is Jabs is a channeled skill. Being melee, it's uninterruptible, but the Templar still can't block while jabbing -- they're open to an instant stun. The other thing to try is to hold block and weather the storm, as they'll run low on resources eventually. You'll run low too, so it's not the best solution. Tricky roll dodges also help. If you're hard to track, you're hard to jab. That said, I can't offer a specific method for tricky roll dodges, it's just something that's learned as you get more experienced in footwork.

Insco851

Kadoin wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

You can't dodge roll because you'll be taking full damage, you can't kite the Templar like you would a DK using Corrosive because they can Gap Close, stun, and snare you with ease.

I never knew DK's didn't have a gap closer, snares and the best stun in the game.

Other than jabs and PoL, they are not doing anything every other stam build in the game is doing.

It's funny how he is acting like its exclusive to templar, every stam player using onslaught can do it. Esp. the ones in a zerg.

Insco851 wrote: »

Templars.... Templars everywhere!

And yes. It’s a “fun time” for Plar I was told. Just a little “shine time” cuz they “deserve it”

80-90% of my death caps are just jabs from multiple attackers lately.

More than soul trap and entropy? Ya'll stop playin'...

EDIT: cheap keyboard

Yes more than ST/Entropy

I’ll get one of those dots typically and then ulti and jabs to fill out the rest the death cap. At least that’s currently life on Xbox NA right now. Especially true in IC.

OG_Kaveman

Love to see templar being called overpowered for something other then being healbots. Been a long time coming.

Vermethys

@Kadoin Other Stamina builds running Onslaught are mostly Dizzying Swing builds that are usually easy to avoid -- 2 dodge rolls, a stun, run around a tree for a bit and you're good to go. It's not exclusive to Stamplar, but the amount of undodeable/unavoidable damage they have, amplified by Onslaught, is a tad bit much.

Kadoin wrote: »

More than soul trap and entropy? Ya'll stop playin'...

That's a whole other topic I'd never touch with 10ft pole

Kadoin

Ffastyl wrote: »

The two main ways to shut down jabs are Major Evasion and stuns. Jabs is an AoE, even if it's only ever meant to be used as single target, and as such Major Evasion reduces it's damage by 25%. The other weakness is Jabs is a channeled skill. Being melee, it's uninterruptible, but the Templar still can't block while jabbing -- they're open to an instant stun. The other thing to try is to hold block and weather the storm, as they'll run low on resources eventually. You'll run low too, so it's not the best solution. Tricky roll dodges also help. If you're hard to track, you're hard to jab. That said, I can't offer a specific method for tricky roll dodges, it's just something that's learned as you get more experienced in footwork.

Actually, I'd say the counter to it is movement speed and control. Then again 55% + movement speed counters everything in the game. A build with enough movement speed, HoT, control skills, and damage is what you want to aim for in this patch if you want an easier time dealing with all the cheese out there. You didn't hear it from me though!

Waffennacht

Sounds like you're running a melee range build; not specced for LoS and repositioning. Definitely need snare immunity in today's BGs.

The gap closer can be avoided via distance and/or well timed dodge (while at a distance) - same with jabs

I also BG and have not had this experience personally, but I run a bow build atm

Vermethys

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sounds like you're running a melee range build; not specced for LoS and repositioning. Definitely need snare immunity in today's BGs.

Yeah, been playing melee builds for the longest while now -- specifically StamDK and StamSorc. StamDK is a hopeless case against them since the class is meant to turtle up, mitigate, and heal through damage. So, it feels like a case of scissors vs paper. StamSorc handles them better because of the 20% run speed (Steed mundus) + Streak. They're mostly prominent in CP Open-World because Stamplar has weaknesses that become obvious in No-CP.

EtTuBrutus

Vermethys wrote: »

@Kadoin Other Stamina builds running Onslaught are mostly Dizzying Swing builds that are usually easy to avoid -- 2 dodge rolls, a stun, run around a tree for a bit and you're good to go. It's not exclusive to Stamplar, but the amount of undodeable/unavoidable damage they have, amplified by Onslaught, is a tad bit much.

Kadoin wrote: »

More than soul trap and entropy? Ya'll stop playin'...

That's a whole other topic I'd never touch with 10ft pole

Jabs is HARDLY unavoidable. Literally move better.... it's the 2nd easiest to counter spammable in the game.

Hexquisite

Eh..it's not just Stamplars, it's not even just Stam Builds, I know several Magic builds also using Onslaught--combined with DOTS. Calling out Stamplars but not the skill itself seems disingenuous.

DocFrost72

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I was gonna comment on this thread, but I keep getting perma-silenced by all the templars!

We really gunna have a sorc complain about silence?

Really?

Royalthought

Hexquisite wrote: »

Eh..it's not just Stamplars, it's not even just Stam Builds, I know several Magic builds also using Onslaught--combined with DOTS. Calling out Stamplars but not the skill itself seems disingenuous.

Why would they do such a thing?

Hexquisite

Royalthought wrote: »

Hexquisite wrote: »

Eh..it's not just Stamplars, it's not even just Stam Builds, I know several Magic builds also using Onslaught--combined with DOTS. Calling out Stamplars but not the skill itself seems disingenuous.

Why would they do such a thing?

For the Spell Pen on their Direct Damage attacks for 12 seconds, it is actually a nasty combo.

Royalthought

Hexquisite wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Hexquisite wrote: »

Eh..it's not just Stamplars, it's not even just Stam Builds, I know several Magic builds also using Onslaught--combined with DOTS. Calling out Stamplars but not the skill itself seems disingenuous.

Why would they do such a thing?

For the Spell Pen on their Direct Damage attacks for 12 seconds, it is actually a nasty combo.

That I understand. Was more so responding to "using Onslaught--combined with DOTS."

Hexquisite

Royalthought wrote: »

Hexquisite wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Hexquisite wrote: »

Eh..it's not just Stamplars, it's not even just Stam Builds, I know several Magic builds also using Onslaught--combined with DOTS. Calling out Stamplars but not the skill itself seems disingenuous.

Why would they do such a thing?

For the Spell Pen on their Direct Damage attacks for 12 seconds, it is actually a nasty combo.

That I understand. Was more so responding to "using Onslaught--combined with DOTS."

For total cheese. 2 DOTS leaves open enough slots for direct damage and a HOT.

Cerotonin

I try to maintain my distance with Templars on my NightBlade. My debuffs don’t last long with them and my combo is more difficult to use on them in comparison to other classes since they can just easily cleanse their negative effects. This combo that they’re using is difficult to escape from, especially if there’s more than a single Templar using it in your face. I fear them and use snare removal so that I could get through the snare from their rituals, but the jabbing resumes if I even try to engage them again.

wheem_ESO

Something most certainly needs to be done about the burst damage available to Stamina Templar right now. The combo isn't anything that's particularly difficult to set up, and the damage is really absurd. 'Course, LOLslaught and Dizzying Swing aren't class-specific abilities, and both could use some, shall we say...adjustments. But when you add in Power of the Light, which I've seen pop for over 7k in no-CP BGs, and a 1.1 second channel on Biting Jabs, which snares for 70% and can do another 5k+ damage, things get even more silly.

Heimpai

You realize just as many magplars run it to right?

Which if you actually pvp you know which is deadlier

Qbiken

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Something most certainly needs to be done about the burst damage available to Stamina Templar right now. The combo isn't anything that's particularly difficult to set up, and the damage is really absurd. 'Course, LOLslaught and Dizzying Swing aren't class-specific abilities, and both could use some, shall we say...adjustments. But when you add in Power of the Light, which I've seen pop for over 7k in no-CP BGs, and a 1.1 second channel on Biting Jabs, which snares for 70% and can do another 5k+ damage, things get even more silly.

Only problem I´ve with Power of the Light and Purifying Light is that the damage that is accumilated stacks from all damage taken during it´s duration. I would really like to see that only the damage done from the caster is added to the final explosion.

wheem_ESO

Heimpai wrote: »

You realize just as many magplars run it to right?

Which if you actually pvp you know which is deadlier

Magicka Templar certainly has (really) powerful offense this patch, but it's still not as bad to deal with as Stamina Templar is. Dizzying Swing is something else right now...

'Course, I'll say that Magicka Templar is more annoying to fight against, what with the constant rooting, plus perma-snaring during the time that you're not rooted.

Heimpai

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

You realize just as many magplars run it to right?

Which if you actually pvp you know which is deadlier

Magicka Templar certainly has (really) powerful offense this patch, but it's still not as bad to deal with as Stamina Templar is. Dizzying Swing is something else right now...

'Course, I'll say that Magicka Templar is more annoying to fight against, what with the constant rooting, plus perma-snaring during the time that you're not rooted.

Again that’s not class specific..stamden/stamsorc/stamdk run that..

So let’s not get the stamplar nerfed for overperforming 2h abilities

Also dswing has a health dsync like snipe

ChunkyCat

If Onslaught into Jabs killed you, you would have lost to anything else, too.

Vermethys

ChunkyCat wrote: »

If Onslaught into Jabs killed you, you would have lost to anything else, too.

Let's purposefully ignore anything mentioned about PoTL and Burning Light.

Heimpai wrote: »

You realize just as many magplars run it to right?

Which if you actually pvp you know which is deadlier

Most of them are still running Lightning Staff + S&B. Outside of certain streamers or YouTubers, not many have made the switch. Whereas 2h is the default for the vast majority of Stamplar builds.

The problem is with the ability (Onslaught), not the class. It just synergises the best with it out of all class.

ChunkyCat

If you died to a three skill combo in conjunction with a class passive, you would have lost to anything else, too.

Heimpai

Vermethys wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

If Onslaught into Jabs killed you, you would have lost to anything else, too.

Let's purposefully ignore anything mentioned about PoTL and Burning Light.

Heimpai wrote: »

You realize just as many magplars run it to right?

Which if you actually pvp you know which is deadlier

Most of them are still running Lightning Staff + S&B. Outside of certain streamers or YouTubers, not many have made the switch. Whereas 2h is the default for the vast majority of Stamplar builds.

The problem is with the ability (Onslaught), not the class. It just synergises the best with it out of all class.

Who streams templars? I’d like to l2p honestly

And we need to bring awareness about dswing dsync, as a stamden main i know it’s Happening and makes me feel like a cheater