Nerf the overall DOT damage (mainly ofc entropy and soul crap) back to the Elsweyr values and we can agree on the whole "good patch" story.
Many good changes have been made this patch but they get completely overshadowed by the terrible ones, as mentioned.

eso_lags wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

You can burn me alive, but considerably recent updates made the game better in my opinion when it comes to PvP. Update called "Scalebreaker & Update 23" I believe. I encountered very few "button mushing to win". Now I can actually use my abilities before I die (if I die). Before it was like FPS game, head shots and everything. Now it is more about how you use your abilities, not just shooting everything in the right order every time to win, now I can actually play RPG, where I need to think how I use my stuff and changing ability use for each player depending on who I meet. There are still some issues that I am sure ZOS are aware of, and I hope they will continue this way. So, big thanks to ZOS. Cheers

PS: I am not sure if it was update, or me changing my play style so correct me if I am wrong.... But in anyway, flames for this game has been rekindled

Unlucky for you, they've already confirmed they are reverting most of these changes next patch. DoTs are getting nerfed across the board, and battle spirit in PvP will make it so you can't stack DoTs anymore, effectively making them obsolete.

Are you sure the OP would mind this?

The reasoning for his support of the update is due to reductions to PvP damage bursts which allows him to actually play his character before he dies (that's why I liked the update as well). So it seems to me further nerfs to damage would likely only increase his support for the changes. I know it would mine. So if the developers want to keep reducing the damage on this game's PvP they have my blessing.

I don't think any of us liked this update because of the shift to DoT damage. We liked it because of the reductions to damage bursts which allows us to actually fight back instead of just dying instantly to combos mixed in with ultimate dumps. I can take or leave the emphasis on DoT damage. So I doubt many Scalebreaker supporters would particularly care one way or another about that. In fact: preventing multiple players from being able to stack the same DoT on a single player sounds like a great idea to me.

Anything that scales back the effectiveness of combining multiple sources of damage on a single target is going to be a big help to this game's PvP system - because that's when it starts to fall apart.

How are people seeing less damage this update? I dont understand. Is in the cast time on ultimates? The less than a half of a second cast time? Im just confused. Because the game that im playing has much more damage this update than last update,

A huge part of it comes from magplars. They literally hit you with a burning light, gap close, stun, and hit you with the sweep ulti. That has killed me before I could even react and I run around with 35k resistance. And the 2h ultimate hits like a truck. Stam dks as well. Certain dot builds.. I mean none of its really been an issue for me except for magplars but I cant see how anyone could think there is less damage this update, or even less burst. Oh and I cant forget soul trap and entropy..

Is it really just the cast times that are making people say theres less burst?

No, it's just everyone who's not playing a magplar.

Mr_Walker wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

You can burn me alive, but considerably recent updates made the game better in my opinion when it comes to PvP. Update called "Scalebreaker & Update 23" I believe. I encountered very few "button mushing to win". Now I can actually use my abilities before I die (if I die). Before it was like FPS game, head shots and everything. Now it is more about how you use your abilities, not just shooting everything in the right order every time to win, now I can actually play RPG, where I need to think how I use my stuff and changing ability use for each player depending on who I meet. There are still some issues that I am sure ZOS are aware of, and I hope they will continue this way. So, big thanks to ZOS. Cheers

PS: I am not sure if it was update, or me changing my play style so correct me if I am wrong.... But in anyway, flames for this game has been rekindled

Unlucky for you, they've already confirmed they are reverting most of these changes next patch. DoTs are getting nerfed across the board, and battle spirit in PvP will make it so you can't stack DoTs anymore, effectively making them obsolete.

Are you sure the OP would mind this?

The reasoning for his support of the update is due to reductions to PvP damage bursts which allows him to actually play his character before he dies (that's why I liked the update as well). So it seems to me further nerfs to damage would likely only increase his support for the changes. I know it would mine. So if the developers want to keep reducing the damage on this game's PvP they have my blessing.

I don't think any of us liked this update because of the shift to DoT damage. We liked it because of the reductions to damage bursts which allows us to actually fight back instead of just dying instantly to combos mixed in with ultimate dumps. I can take or leave the emphasis on DoT damage. So I doubt many Scalebreaker supporters would particularly care one way or another about that. In fact: preventing multiple players from being able to stack the same DoT on a single player sounds like a great idea to me.

Anything that scales back the effectiveness of combining multiple sources of damage on a single target is going to be a big help to this game's PvP system - because that's when it starts to fall apart.

How are people seeing less damage this update? I dont understand. Is in the cast time on ultimates? The less than a half of a second cast time? Im just confused. Because the game that im playing has much more damage this update than last update,

A huge part of it comes from magplars. They literally hit you with a burning light, gap close, stun, and hit you with the sweep ulti. That has killed me before I could even react and I run around with 35k resistance. And the 2h ultimate hits like a truck. Stam dks as well. Certain dot builds.. I mean none of its really been an issue for me except for magplars but I cant see how anyone could think there is less damage this update, or even less burst. Oh and I cant forget soul trap and entropy..

Is it really just the cast times that are making people say theres less burst?

No, it's just everyone who's not playing a magplar.

What like those of us who arent magplars realize that theres more damage? Well ya especially considering magplars have such good defenses against the *** going on this update as well as hitting the hardest this update in pvp. But like I said theres a lot of other damage too, waaay more than elsweyr.

But this isnt the first time ive seen people saying this. If I had to guess I would say people think there is less damage because they are probably getting killed by less number less often. Many of them blamed themselves getting 1vxd or killed while outnumbering the people, because of dawnbreaker and other ultimate's being animation canceled. Zero self awareness.

Its like the same thing with the proc meta. Players who arent as experienced want to be able to kill experienced players no matter what. Now its much easier to do that since they can just stack dots on people before anyone can fight back, at least a decent amount of the time. Plus since everyones on a magplar they have people that hit like trucks, are extremely tanky, and can heal everyone. Fantastic update for small scale for sure.

PVP, both before and after, sounds ridiculously awful.

Exploit sounds terrible, multiple dots are terrible.

All of it sounds rubbish.

Most games' PVP lacks balance, to one extent or another, but this is really not how to make balanced and enjoyable combat in a game.

I was steamrolling in bgs before the patch and I am still doing that after patch. What annoys me is cry babies on the forums who are a reason why I have to change my golden gear, build and rotation every few weeks.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Arca94 wrote: »

Ah yes, balancing your offense and defence through pressuring your opponents and mitigating damage where necessary, all the while keeping track of your resources and carefully watching for the opportune window to time a series of abilities so they can hit together to maximise damage is 'button mashing' and 'exploiting'.

Meanwhile, casting 3 DoTs and AFKing is 'skillful gameplay'.

Huh... all makes sense if you think about it...

You won't kill any experienced PVP-er with 3 dots only with balanced build... you still need to deliver cc-combo on top of this dots. What ZOS did this patch is nerfed defense (pirate skele, protective trait, heavy sets...) and buffed damage (dots, onslaught...), so now people can't stack abnormal amount of resistances / protective buffs and "on damage taken" proc sets and farm noobs for free while being virtually immortal, unless bursted down by player of higher skill or overwhelmed by lags / numbers.
Now you either sacrifice a lot for defense and can kill others only in attrition and/or perfect burst.. or you may go total glass cannon and "kill with 3 dots+spammable", but of course you will die extremely fast as soon as you will lose LOS / cloak / initiative / your pocket healer and tank and so on..

So it all depends on point of view, it's harder for more experienced PVP-er to kill less experienced ones, but without skill less experienced still doesn't have a chance in 1v1.. so you may say that skill cap actually increased you need to be more cunning and fast to win in 1v2, 1v3 and so on... and yeah this is still doable, there are people who still successfully 1vX in Scalebreaker, that means that top skill ceiling is still high.

I dont think so. 1vx has always depended on who you are fighting but this update takes it to a new level. Certain builds, such as most half competent magplars, ruin fights completely. They carry themselves and other players more than ever. At least with earthgore they could just delay, but now they might actually kill you. Plus it is incredibly dificult to go offensive with that bubble. And if they are good it just makes it all the more impossible.

Ive actually never seen such a drastic change in one update. I play in IC on a daily basis. I fight the same players. The few days leading up to scalebreaker I had been fighting the usual people and mopping the usual people that I mop. Specifically a few magplars. The day that scalebreaker hits these same people are making me struggle in 1v2s and 1v1s. Same people who dont play very well now have a lot of damage and are still very tanky. Its especially noticeable with magplar and certain dots.

Really the lengths people will go to try and justify inexperienced players killing experienced players is mind boggling. Ill never understand why people think skill shouldn't matter. Its the same logic by which people complain about themselves and 9 other friends getting ran around a tree for 20 minutes and half of them, or all of them, dying. But I expect it at this point, most people just arent competitive and zos seems to be a fan of "everyone gets a trophy".

And what you said about someone needed to sacrifice damage for tankiness is not true. My stamplar still has 35k resistance, 2k recovery with just rally, 4k+ weapon damage, 27k health, and 34k stamina, in medium armor. Major and minor protection. 1700 health recovery.. And funny enough I can still get damn near insta killed by a magplar that simply drops burning light-toppling charge-sweep-jabs/beam. Strange.

Tigerseye wrote: »

Heatnix90 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

You can burn me alive, but considerably recent updates made the game better in my opinion when it comes to PvP. Update called "Scalebreaker & Update 23" I believe. I encountered very few "button mushing to win". Now I can actually use my abilities before I die (if I die). Before it was like FPS game, head shots and everything. Now it is more about how you use your abilities, not just shooting everything in the right order every time to win, now I can actually play RPG, where I need to think how I use my stuff and changing ability use for each player depending on who I meet. There are still some issues that I am sure ZOS are aware of, and I hope they will continue this way. So, big thanks to ZOS. Cheers

PS: I am not sure if it was update, or me changing my play style so correct me if I am wrong.... But in anyway, flames for this game has been rekindled

battle spirit in PvP will make it so you can't stack DoTs anymore, effectively making them obsolete.

People still believe this BS? I made it up and spread it around, it's already been debunked as fake.

Some people these days man, unbelievably dense.

So, you tell a lie - but you, the liar, are not the problem - the person who believed it is?

Hilarious.

Not my problem if people throw a fit over made up changes or continue to ride the hopes that said changes will be real.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Arca94 wrote: »

Ah yes, balancing your offense and defence through pressuring your opponents and mitigating damage where necessary, all the while keeping track of your resources and carefully watching for the opportune window to time a series of abilities so they can hit together to maximise damage is 'button mashing' and 'exploiting'.

Meanwhile, casting 3 DoTs and AFKing is 'skillful gameplay'.

Huh... all makes sense if you think about it...

You won't kill any experienced PVP-er with 3 dots only with balanced build... you still need to deliver cc-combo on top of this dots. What ZOS did this patch is nerfed defense (pirate skele, protective trait, heavy sets...) and buffed damage (dots, onslaught...), so now people can't stack abnormal amount of resistances / protective buffs and "on damage taken" proc sets and farm noobs for free while being virtually immortal, unless bursted down by player of higher skill or overwhelmed by lags / numbers.
Now you either sacrifice a lot for defense and can kill others only in attrition and/or perfect burst.. or you may go total glass cannon and "kill with 3 dots+spammable", but of course you will die extremely fast as soon as you will lose LOS / cloak / initiative / your pocket healer and tank and so on..

So it all depends on point of view, it's harder for more experienced PVP-er to kill less experienced ones, but without skill less experienced still doesn't have a chance in 1v1.. so you may say that skill cap actually increased you need to be more cunning and fast to win in 1v2, 1v3 and so on... and yeah this is still doable, there are people who still successfully 1vX in Scalebreaker, that means that top skill ceiling is still high.

I dont think so. 1vx has always depended on who you are fighting but this update takes it to a new level. Certain builds, such as most half competent magplars, ruin fights completely. They carry themselves and other players more than ever. At least with earthgore they could just delay, but now they might actually kill you. Plus it is incredibly dificult to go offensive with that bubble. And if they are good it just makes it all the more impossible.

Ive actually never seen such a drastic change in one update. I play in IC on a daily basis. I fight the same players. The few days leading up to scalebreaker I had been fighting the usual people and mopping the usual people that I mop. Specifically a few magplars. The day that scalebreaker hits these same people are making me struggle in 1v2s and 1v1s. Same people who dont play very well now have a lot of damage and are still very tanky. Its especially noticeable with magplar and certain dots.

Really the lengths people will go to try and justify inexperienced players killing experienced players is mind boggling. Ill never understand why people think skill shouldn't matter. Its the same logic by which people complain about themselves and 9 other friends getting ran around a tree for 20 minutes and half of them, or all of them, dying. But I expect it at this point, most people just arent competitive and zos seems to be a fan of "everyone gets a trophy".

And what you said about someone needed to sacrifice damage for tankiness is not true. My stamplar still has 35k resistance, 2k recovery with just rally, 4k+ weapon damage, 27k health, and 34k stamina, in medium armor. Major and minor protection. 1700 health recovery.. And funny enough I can still get damn near insta killed by a magplar that simply drops burning light-toppling charge-sweep-jabs/beam. Strange.

4k+ weapon damage is what I call a sacrifice, and I run build with similar stats. Without sacrifice it will be at least 5k+. And that difference is noticeable, it's much harder to kill somebody when you have 4k+ then with 5k+. So yes, you are running build with good protection and when you will meet another player with similar setup, you will have long and interesting fight, basically that player who will make mistake will lose, without mistakes both of you won't kill each other. And if you will be ambushed by glass cannon, glass cannon can melt even through that resistances this patch but that glass cannon will die from poisoninjection-dizzy-onslaught-executioner in a moment.
Tbh I see way more stamina solo players then solo magicka players. There was dot pandemic first week when you were ambushed by magicka dot builds from every corner, they were deadly but squishy and disappeared in 2nd week for unknown reason... well, at least that is my experience in no-CP. Most solo builds now are fast&tanky dizzy-swingers while magicka glass cannons mostly operate in small scale groups. And yeah those small scale groups are extremely dangerous and evaporate you in few GCD. But why several experienced people with discord voice connection shouldn't evaporate solo player?
As for the dots... they are not so deadly when you have 35k spell resistance.. yes, they are deadly as a part of cc-burst... but if it's dots from 1 or 2 players and you can withdraw to LOS, they usually can be outhealed just with vigor.

Obviously, there are some broken skills and specs this patch, but we can't burrow whole patch because of those.

Little late on this, taking a vacation from this dumpster fire of a game.. Honestly if you didnt put such a ridiculous response I wouldn't have felt the need to reply, but you did. There is no sacrifice. You literally listed some things you said could not be done and im telling you that its still being done, and without changing a lot. I can still have high resistance and damage debuffs, while taking advantage of high weapon damage, dot damage, and onslaught.

What ZOS did this patch is nerfed defense (pirate skele, protective trait, heavy sets...) and buffed damage (dots, onslaught...), so now people can't stack abnormal amount of resistances / protective buffs and "on damage taken" proc sets and farm noobs for free while being virtually immortal, unless bursted down by player of higher skill or overwhelmed by lags / numbers.

You are wrong about a lot of things. Everyone has access to the same builds. Its so laughable that people blame the skilled players for killing the not so skilled players and say its their broken build or broken mechaincs. I guess people forget that everything strong in this game ends up on youtube within the first week after a patch and everybody and their mother ends up using it. And thats exactly why I am getting zerged down by groups of magplars this patch, people like to ride the meta and that goes ten fold for zerglings who dont want to improve at the game.

It seems people also forget that numbers matter in this game. So when those bad players take meta builds or meta classes and group up they always, always, have the advantage over the solo player or small group of players. People complaining about getting farmed need to take a look at what they are doing wrong. Its like you expect a group of 5 players, who have maybe pvp'd a few times in their entire game time, to be able to kill me. Who wants that? Its like saying you want all pve content to be brainless so everyone can do it with ease. Its not realistic and no matter what zos does it will never happen.

Even if they keep shitting on small scale and breaking the game more in their search for balance, bad players will always lose to better players. This is the case in anything competitive you do in life. The only thing that changes is the amount of bad players that can gang up on one good player, and the more that gap gets smaller the more pathetic this game gets. People shouldnt want to get carried, they should want to get better. But feel free to keep defending it and blaming it on people running broken builds or something.

Another point of me listing my stats was to show an example of how broken magplars are. Stamplars are deff up there too, but magplars are insane this patch. Even with all my resistance and damage debuffs, like i said, I can still get bursted in a second by a magplar if im not extremely careful. Burning light, charge, sweep, jabs, dead. Quickly. They hit like trucks and take very little damage. They dont have to sacrifice, as you said, at all. And thats the hardest hit small scale took this update, because if a magplars not there its fine. But the second one comes its a disaster, the fight changes completely.. Too bad almost everyone is a magplar now.