Yeah they changed it to not crit a with Morrowind or something, quite a while ago I think

My potl has a 20k+ tooltip. Hardly see it hit for more than 5k in pvp. Curse on the other hand has a much lower tooltip by at least 5k and I've seen hits up to 12k in pvp. Another problem is you actually have to hit your opponent for potl to do damage, whereas curse is pretty much free damage... that hits twice.

ZeroXFF wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

red_bird wrote: »

Someone who knows more will come along, but I believe it's intentional. The damage of that final explosion is based off of a percentage of the damage you do to the enemy while it's active, which can crit, so having the final explosion also crit would cause it to be double crit, if that makes sense. I think the health taken by puncturing sweeps is the same -- damage can crit, but the heal based off of that damage can't crit.

But unlike sweeps, PL has a cap, and that cap is so low that even solo on the 6M dummy you can reliably reach it within 2-3 seconds of applying it. Meaning even with 0 crit you'd get there within the 6 seconds window. Basically it's just a single target delayed burst skill with a bit of extra utility, like daedric prey from sorcs, and I don't see sorcs being unable to crit with it.

Daedric prey is not based on damage done. Double crit is a nono.

That argument only works if the cap is so high that you couldn't reach it without critting, but as it is currently, all the crits you do in those 6 seconds are wasted if you have a proper rotation. They contribute diddly-squat to the damage of the skill, and as such there is no reason for PL to not crit, unless they increase the cap, or at least make the cap scale with crit damage multiplier.

so, PotL only scales with stam and at 33k stam, you get a PotL value of 19,799. as the tooltip states, the skill copying all their damage taken for 6 seconds and releasing 20% of it as additional Physical Damage to them, till that number and then is "capped". so to figure out what amount of damage you need to do to reach that cap in six seconds, you need to first figure out what 19,799 is 20% of. that number happens to be 98,995. now we take 98,995 and divide it by 6, since that is amount of time you have to reach the cap, and you get 16,499. 16,499 dps is pretty easy to get, even by yourself. note that in pvp, you just half all those numbers, so you only need to do 8k dps to get to the cap of 9899.5.


now that i read it closer, you are saying that you are overdamageing, reaching the cap and you think that skill is "wasteing" the crits that contributed to the 20% copied damage? even at my numbers above, that is 3299 extra dps and you get minor breach and fracture. i just dont understand your argument? do you want a cap and then have that cap crit? because the way it use to work when the skill could crit, it that the copied damage would crit but still be capped by the percent of your max stam it was at the time. so your, as in you all the crits you do in those 6 seconds are wasted if you have a proper rotation, having the skill crit would not help you, it would only help those who do not do enough damage in the first place to get to the cap.

ZeroXFF wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

red_bird wrote: »

Someone who knows more will come along, but I believe it's intentional. The damage of that final explosion is based off of a percentage of the damage you do to the enemy while it's active, which can crit, so having the final explosion also crit would cause it to be double crit, if that makes sense. I think the health taken by puncturing sweeps is the same -- damage can crit, but the heal based off of that damage can't crit.

But unlike sweeps, PL has a cap, and that cap is so low that even solo on the 6M dummy you can reliably reach it within 2-3 seconds of applying it. Meaning even with 0 crit you'd get there within the 6 seconds window. Basically it's just a single target delayed burst skill with a bit of extra utility, like daedric prey from sorcs, and I don't see sorcs being unable to crit with it.

Daedric prey is not based on damage done. Double crit is a nono.

That argument only works if the cap is so high that you couldn't reach it without critting, but as it is currently, all the crits you do in those 6 seconds are wasted if you have a proper rotation. They contribute diddly-squat to the damage of the skill, and as such there is no reason for PL to not crit, unless they increase the cap, or at least make the cap scale with crit damage multiplier.

so, PotL only scales with stam and at 33k stam, you get a PotL value of 19,799. as the tooltip states, the skill copying all their damage taken for 6 seconds and releasing 20% of it as additional Physical Damage to them, till that number and then is "capped". so to figure out what amount of damage you need to do to reach that cap in six seconds, you need to first figure out what 19,799 is 20% of. that number happens to be 98,995. now we take 98,995 and divide it by 6, since that is amount of time you have to reach the cap, and you get 16,499. 16,499 dps is pretty easy to get, even by yourself. note that in pvp, you just half all those numbers, so you only need to do 8k dps to get to the cap of 9899.5.


now that i read it closer, you are saying that you are overdamageing, reaching the cap and you think that skill is "wasteing" the crits that contributed to the 20% copied damage? even at my numbers above, that is 3299 extra dps and you get minor breach and fracture. i just dont understand your argument? do you want a cap and then have that cap crit? because the way it use to work when the skill could crit, it that the copied damage would crit but still be capped by the percent of your max stam it was at the time. so your, as in you all the crits you do in those 6 seconds are wasted if you have a proper rotation, having the skill crit would not help you, it would only help those who do not do enough damage in the first place to get to the cap.

The tooltip on my magplar is 17k, and there is no fracture or breach on it, only a weak heal that you rarely get to benefit from as a ranged spec. That's worse per cast than any DoT, and assuming perfect uptime (2 casts/12s) is worse in DPS than 1 dot + 1 spammable on most builds, because those can crit. There is really no point using the skill with the current state of the game.

If the crit would work as you describe, yeah, it is pointless then too, but I see no reason to not make the cap scale with the crit dmg multiplier.

purifying light is not a dps skill, it is supposed to be for healers, even though most endgame groups make their healplars slot Potl anyways, a magplar dps will not slot it, they have sun fire/solar barrage/radiant destruction from that skill line, all of which are amazing. also, the heal from purifying light is as strong as the heal from extended ritual. so no it is not a "weak heal".

the cap of the damage is 60% of your max stam for PotL and 60% of your mag for purifying light. so that means you one have ~28k magic. that is super low for magic users. most healers these days have at least 39k max magic, since regen is not that important for healers since the springs and orbs nerfs, and most dps have between 35 and 40k, depending on how many bloodthirsty they have.

I know the OP just wanted a yes/no answer and has it, but as for the rest of the thread... I like Purifying Light, especially in solo content like VMA (though have not tested the reduced heal as of yesterday on PS4). Cap or no cap, I don't think it's likely that the combat team will be re-introducing double crit on some skills. Doesn't match the general direction (such as it is) that they're heading.

And if somehow they were convinced to add double crit on capped skills, I bet they'd nerf the base damage so you'd end up with the same overall effect. Or, as @OG_Kaveman said, it would still be subject to the damage cap like before, so only those who couldn't meet the cap would actually see any portion of the double crit.

We could debate the problems/merits of allowing PL to double crit above the cap, or raising the cap so high that players would actually get to see double crit, but it seems pretty pointless to get into it when I see almost no chance of that happening.

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

I just did some dummy testing for my pvp magplar and i relised no matter how many times id trigger the 6sec delayed purifying light explosion to proc it would never be a critical hit, can someone confirm this is intentional?

to directly answer your question here, it is intentional, read here-


https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3737312/#Comment_3737312

Backlash:

After evaluating the most recent changes of Backlash on the PTS, we have made further changes and bug fixes to ensure the damage from this ability is more fairly balanced in PvP. Hitting the maximum damage limit against another player now requires a significant amount of uninhibited damage from the Templar, and enemies will have more counterplay in reducing Backlash’s burst damage if they actively mitigate or avoid damage. Changing Backlash’s final damage to no longer critically strike prevents the Templar from reaching the damage cap too easily with a high critical strike rating. This is due to the fact that the damage copied could critical strike, and the last the final damage also critically strike on top of that.

So basically, as I read it, the OP's question of "is it intentional that the skill cannot crit when exploding" is that it's not intentional and actually is still bugged?
What I read is that the skill does not copy crit damage to be stored, but final explosion for 20% of stored damage can crit.

What? How do you get that from the quote from the patch notes there? Especially this-

Changing Backlash’s final damage to no longer critically strike prevents the Templar from reaching the damage cap too easily with a high critical strike rating.

And this-

.This is due to the fact that the damage copied could critical strike, and the last the final damage also critically strike on top of that.

I think not critting here is the correct move. If it crits both morphs will double dip from crit. Since this skill is based off copied damage, it copies a damage if it crits. For example, if your jabs don't crit for 3k they're copied onto purifying light for 3k. If jabs crit for 5k then they're copied onto purifying light for 5k already. Hence, not critting on an already high damage copy burst skill sounds like the right way to go.

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Yeah, just checked, was looking at it without buff food before. With 2-stat food and Inner light it's 21k, and taking initial damage into account it actually does add up to 25k.

As for PL being for healers - no, it's primarily a damage skill with a weak heal. And yes, the heal is weak, 3 ticks with 1.7k in a small area around the target is laughable. You can't compare it to Cleansing Ritual, because it heals in a huge area and doesn't require everyone to be in melee range to get healed, and while not by much, ritual is stronger (1.9k/tick with the same setup), and also lasts twice as long while doing decent AoE damage (or 3x as long without damage).

Still, moot point, because it doesn't actually work if the target takes a lot of damage, and it's been broken for ages.

you get 4 ticks of heals from PL, since it ticks every 2 seconds for 6 seconds, you get a tick at 0 then 2 then 4 then 6. not 3 ticks. 1.7k is only 10% less than 1.9k. hardy "a weak heal". obviously it is going to hit those closest to the boss, where heals are needed the most, so the 6-8 meter range the heal has is also hardly "laughable" and the heal follows the target, so you dont need to worry about the heal not being where it is needed the most. AND you can just recast the skill to get the heal early, yes you will miss out on the damage from it but you do have the option.

purifying ritual costs more then double then PL does. of course it is going to be better in aoe damage then PL, the skills are comparable in healing strength and tick rate. a healer would have both on their bar. my healer does.

as i stated, PL is an option for healers. not dps. i am pretty sure i have never seen a magplar dps with the skill on. there are just better options for actual damage, which is fine, not all skill need to be viable for dps, there need to be options for all roles in the skill trees. having the skills capped damage crit would not change this. it would only add like and average of 60-80% dps from it, this would take the your 21k burst from 3,500 dps to like 5,950 dps. depending on your crit chance and crit hit damage.though, i will admit, it would help. the initial damage already can crit by the way, so you dont really need to add that in.

PL isn't a skill for healers because healers don't use it. The heal is decent but plenty of dps skills have additional effects. Silver shards has a straight up 75% cleave and siphon soul has an enormous heal attached, for example.

ZoS designs day to day and just finished a 5 week pts cycle where they completely revamped every build in the game. It's way more likely this is just a neglected skill. Up until recently it didn't even work properly.

The PL/potl design is intentional and is bad design. The whole "double dip" crit issue is completely negated by the cap. It's just a delayed nuke with some arbitrary requirement to go off.