Power Surge

RaddlemanNumber7 · August 2019

I changed morph to Crit Surge, get Major Sorcery from potions. Kept my pets. Don't use Entropy. MagSorc doesn't really feel any different to me.

Nemesis7884 · August 2019

easy fix just have power surge give either brutality or sorcery depending on highest stat... i really dont get why zos is making everything so complicated

OG_Kaveman · August 2019

The best fix would be to forget giving sorc healers a skill in the storm calling skill line and make one of the dark magic skills the AOE heal for sorcs, that way sorc healers can give the group their 6% spell crit.

mzprx · August 2019

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Just use Structured Entropy instead. Basically the old Power Surge + a strong DoT.

unless it isn't. the old Power Surge used to heal us for 2550 (IIRC) every second when dealing critical damage, which was easy to keep up (dealing critical damage) and could keep us alive through some nasty stuff (vMA, for example. you kept the Surge up at all times and you didn't die. unless you did something silly or the RNG decided that you aren't worthy of a no death run). this new Entropy either restores Magicka (everyone and their mother uses this morph) or heals you for... what? my tooltip says 580 Health every 2 seconds (but my Sorc. switched to Stamina exactly because of this Surge change). which is like peanuts compared to the 2550 Health every second. it will NOT keep you alive through anything, really..

weird thing is that the Stamina version of Surge (the one that gives us only Major Brutality) remained unchanged. but... why? when you say "Sorcerer" do you imagine a Stamina bow/weapons kind of character, or do you imagine a mage, wielding a staff and casting powerful spells around? so why does the Stamina version have a great class utility skill that provides the perfect combination of damage and survivability but a Magicka version doesn't? it makes no sense. at all..

i switched from Magicka to Stamina just because of this change. i loved my Mag. Sorc., took me 3 years of regular playing to figure out that that was the perfect class for me (had all classes Stam./Mag. versions). now i'm forced to play a character that is great (i like Stam. Sorcerers as well) but does NOT feel right. i want my Mag. Sorc. back..

do you know what is the worst thing about this all? that if they wanted to give Mag. Sorcerers a class healing skill they could have changed the Power Surge to the version we have now and added the Major Sorcery to the Critical Surge version. easy to do and everyone would be happy. makes me wonder if they really do have a competent team that takes care of balancing the game since they never thought of this. i guess not..

aLi3nZ · August 2019

I play sorc almost exclusively but I have a mageblade

I was getting just a little bored on my sorc so I switched to my mageblade.

It looks like they increased the cost of the cloak- probably some time back but the cost is around the same as hardened ward
They also removed one of the abilities that gives extra speed
They also removed 8% damage bonus from assassins will and the 8% health increase from swallow soul.
Spell power pots seems to have increased in price to 40,000 gold for 200 and they seem pretty essential for mage blade ganking

Seems mageblade has had its fair share of nerfs there.

Sandman929 · August 2019

You mean you don't like access to major sorcery tied to this worthless heal that procs off crit heals? Well that's weird. ZOS thought it was an interesting and flavorful way to perk up the class, like not having an execute on DKs or the lead feet on Templars. I'll bet it was high-fives all around the office when they brainstormed this winner.

mikemacon · August 2019

Nah.

My magsorc survival has gone up this patch while DPS has remained flat patch-to-patch.

It required adjusting my skill bar a bit and my rotation slightly, but at the end of the day it’s at worst a wash.

Yep, slot entropy. Also slot crit surge. Entropy gives you major sorcery and a very strong single target damage skill and a heal that can crit and stack (hit multiple targets entering a fight with entropy, and the incoming heals stack), while crit surge heals for more than what power surge did.

Yup, had to drop a skill on the back bar - bound Aegis for me. And had to add entropy into the rotation. But both were exceedingly minor changes.

If I don’t want to use entropy for whatever reason I can still slot crit surge and use spell power pots (but I generally don’t, between entropy and inner light I’ve got that covered and can keep using tripots).

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your mileage may vary.

mzprx · August 2019

mikemacon wrote: »

...Yep, slot entropy. Also slot crit surge. Entropy gives you major sorcery and a very strong single target damage skill and a heal that can crit and stack (hit multiple targets entering a fight with entropy, and the incoming heals stack), while crit surge heals for more than what power surge did.

Yup, had to drop a skill on the back bar - bound Aegis for me. And had to add entropy into the rotation. But both were exceedingly minor changes.

If I don’t want to use entropy for whatever reason I can still slot crit surge and use spell power pots (but I generally don’t, between entropy and inner light I’ve got that covered and can keep using tripots)...

so if i understand it correctly instead of one skill you had to cast every 33 seconds now you have to -

waste resources and time/damage by casting Structured Entropy multiple times before a fight (or during) to get the healing for 10(!!!) and Major Sorcery for 20 seconds, not 33
drop one skill from your skill bar that increased your main resource and thus sustain and damage output AND gave you Minor Ward and Minor Resolve, thus made your survavibility better
if the above sucks you fork out a nice chunk of gold for potions if you're not an alchemist yourself and don't spend days running around Tamriel harvesting plants

and all this are just "exceedingly minor changes"? i struggle to understand the reasoning behind this..

Holycannoli · August 2019

You think it's bad now wait until they rebalance classes and not just some skills.

This patch took a little adjusting and I was questioning wtf the combat team was doing but it's not all that bad. For now. But this is only the beginning.

Lylith · August 2019

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Just use Structured Entropy instead. Basically the old Power Surge + a strong DoT.

and clunky as a bosmer dancing in cement shoes.

Lylith · August 2019

AltmerGF wrote: »

Sorc has pretty much been nerfed into the dirt by now, but the Sorc QQers are probably still gonna gun to nerf it more.

count on it.

the 'shield stacking sorcs' whingeing crew will return in force quite soon, one imagines.

OG_Kaveman · August 2019

. waste resources and time/damage by casting Structured Entropy multiple times before a fight (or during) to get the healing for 10(!!!) and Major Sorcery for 20 seconds, not 33

Entropy is 12(!!!!) Seconds and you are going to have it on your bar regardless, it is just too good of dps to not have it there.

mzprx · August 2019

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

. waste resources and time/damage by casting Structured Entropy multiple times before a fight (or during) to get the healing for 10(!!!) and Major Sorcery for 20 seconds, not 33

Entropy is 12(!!!!) Seconds and you are going to have it on your bar regardless, it is just too good of dps to not have it there.

"Bind an enemy with chaotic magic, dealing X Magic Damage over 10 seconds, and healing you for Y every 2 seconds. Excess magic spills out from them, granting you Major Sorcery, increasing your Spell Damage by 20% for 20 seconds." - from eso-skillbook.com

"Entropy: Redesigned this ability and its morphs to operate as a DoT, rather than the strange HoT/DoT/Buff hybrid it previously was.
- Increased the cost of these abilities to 2970 from 1620 at base.
- Entropy and Degeneration no longer heal over time.
- Increased the damage from all morphs by approximately 220%.
- Decreased duration to 10 seconds from 12 seconds. Major Sorcery remains at 20 seconds, and fixed an issue where the Major Sorcery was not increasing in duration with the Everlasting Magic passive.
- Structured Entropy (morph): This morph no longer grants Max Health for slotting. Instead, it now heals you every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.
- Degeneration (morph): This morph no longer has a 15% chance to heal you when you deal Light or Heavy Attack damage to the target. Instead, it returns 100 Magicka when dealing Light or Heavy Attack Damage to the target while the DoT persists. Also reduced the cost of the ability as it ranks up, down to 2700." - from the Scalebreaker patchnotes

so you're mistaken there, @OG_Kaveman ..

OG_Kaveman · August 2019

mzprx wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

. waste resources and time/damage by casting Structured Entropy multiple times before a fight (or during) to get the healing for 10(!!!) and Major Sorcery for 20 seconds, not 33

Entropy is 12(!!!!) Seconds and you are going to have it on your bar regardless, it is just too good of dps to not have it there.

"Bind an enemy with chaotic magic, dealing X Magic Damage over 10 seconds, and healing you for Y every 2 seconds. Excess magic spills out from them, granting you Major Sorcery, increasing your Spell Damage by 20% for 20 seconds." - from eso-skillbook.com

"Entropy: Redesigned this ability and its morphs to operate as a DoT, rather than the strange HoT/DoT/Buff hybrid it previously was.
- Increased the cost of these abilities to 2970 from 1620 at base.
- Entropy and Degeneration no longer heal over time.
- Increased the damage from all morphs by approximately 220%.
- Decreased duration to 10 seconds from 12 seconds. Major Sorcery remains at 20 seconds, and fixed an issue where the Major Sorcery was not increasing in duration with the Everlasting Magic passive.
- Structured Entropy (morph): This morph no longer grants Max Health for slotting. Instead, it now heals you every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.
- Degeneration (morph): This morph no longer has a 15% chance to heal you when you deal Light or Heavy Attack damage to the target. Instead, it returns 100 Magicka when dealing Light or Heavy Attack Damage to the target while the DoT persists. Also reduced the cost of the ability as it ranks up, down to 2700." - from the Scalebreaker patchnotes

so you're mistaken there, @OG_Kaveman ..

You are the one who is mistaken, babe.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Everlasting_Magic

Everlasting Magic II: Increases the duration of your Mages Guild abilities by 20%

20% of 10 is 2. 10+2=12. Basic math.

This passive also impacts the major sorcery, so that 20 seconds is actually 24 seconds. As 20% of 20, is 4. And 4+ 20=24.

Hope this is simple enough for you.

Tyrion87 · August 2019

To: 'just slot entropy + crit surge' people:

This is a current workaround, not a solution. Someday, maybe even sooner than people think, DoT meta, including entropy, will end and magsorcs will be left without viable access to major sorcery. Spell pots are not a solution as well - they are extremely expensive, even to craft, and most people I know, including myself, use trash mag pots when doing dungeons or arenas while using spell power pots only in vet trials. What would be the point of doing dungeon farm runs to make some coin if half of the future profit was negated by the use of expensive spell pots?

Even now, during DoT meta and extremely strong entropy, there are still many places where this skill is just not that great and efficient - like dungeons and arenas where you rather spec for AOE dmg than ST. And since magsorcs have serious barspace issues, for the above purposes I would rather slot soul splitting trap and mystic orbs rather than pure ST degeneration.

Adding major sorcery to crit surge morph is just such an obvious solution that I fear..... since devs didn't make such a change during PTS.... that they may be considering adding sorcery to less used skills like mines or encase and then they will say: 'here you have your class access to major sorcery, you are welcome'.

Zer0_CooL · August 2019

Whoooza!

mzprx · August 2019

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

...You are the one who is mistaken, babe.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Everlasting_Magic

Everlasting Magic II: Increases the duration of your Mages Guild abilities by 20%

20% of 10 is 2. 10+2=12. Basic math.

This passive also impacts the major sorcery, so that 20 seconds is actually 24 seconds. As 20% of 20, is 4. And 4+ 20=24.

Hope this is simple enough for you.

sure is, if you have the passive. i was talking about base skills (as i have no passives in Mages guild skill line now that i'm a Stam. Sorc. so i kind of forgot about that passive), you were talking about all the passives unlocked and stuff. basic misunderstanding. there was no need to be condescending. does it really matter, though? 2 seconds more? is that what makes the whole "just slot Entropy" justified?

Chilly-McFreeze · August 2019

mzprx wrote: »

weird thing is that the Stamina version of Surge (the one that gives us only Major Brutality) remained unchanged. but... why?

Because stam sorcs get far less out of their class kit than their magicka equivalent. Why gut that too? For the sake of "because muh magsorc"?

mzprx wrote: »

when you say "Sorcerer" do you imagine a Stamina bow/weapons kind of character, or do you imagine a mage, wielding a staff and casting powerful spells around? so why does the Stamina version have a great class utility skill that provides the perfect combination of damage and survivability but a Magicka version doesn't? it makes no sense. at all..

Here we go again. Why is it so hard for people to grasp the class concept of this game? And yes, if you talk about a sorcerer in the elder scrolls universe, I imagine a heavy armored spellcaster with a melee weapon, just like in the previous TES games. What you mean is simply called a "Mage" in the TES universe.

mzprx wrote: »

so why does the Stamina version have a great class utility skill that provides the perfect combination of damage and survivability but a Magicka version doesn't? it makes no sense. at all..

Reeks of resentment. Before you imply to take away stamsorc toys and put it on mag, you should first ask to throw them a bone that is outside of the utility section. I know magsorcs got hit. I dropped Matriarch on my magsorc this patch in favor of Entropy + Crit Surge but our class won't be better if with gut it's bretheren.

mzprx wrote: »

Sorcerers a class healing skill they could have changed the Power Surge to the version we have now and added the Major Sorcery to the Critical Surge version.

At least everyone can agree on that.

Fallen_Ray · August 2019

While it's hard to cope with moronic decisions from an incompetent team. Not all is lost. But it requires a resto staff.

Example:
Rapid Regen + Power surge
You will complement power surge with healing from rapid regen. Making use of its new senseless effect

If you already used a restoration staff this should be no biggie.

However those of you who like me 2 barred a destruction staff well. Might take some getting used to

OG_Kaveman · August 2019

mzprx wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

...You are the one who is mistaken, babe.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Everlasting_Magic

Everlasting Magic II: Increases the duration of your Mages Guild abilities by 20%

20% of 10 is 2. 10+2=12. Basic math.

This passive also impacts the major sorcery, so that 20 seconds is actually 24 seconds. As 20% of 20, is 4. And 4+ 20=24.

Hope this is simple enough for you.

sure is, if you have the passive. i was talking about base skills (as i have no passives in Mages guild skill line now that i'm a Stam. Sorc. so i kind of forgot about that passive), you were talking about all the passives unlocked and stuff. basic misunderstanding. there was no need to be condescending. does it really matter, though? 2 seconds more? is that what makes the whole "just slot Entropy" justified?

You were condescending first. And of course it matters. You have to take into account everything when you talk about a skill, or you look uninformed. Which you did.

I already made my point, zos ought to have put the AOE healer skill in dark magic. Though I will tell you this, using entropy , which I swapped out for surge whole sale, I ran vMA no problem. DPS is about the same too, even using the matriarch.

mzprx · August 2019

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

mzprx wrote: »

weird thing is that the Stamina version of Surge (the one that gives us only Major Brutality) remained unchanged. but... why?

Because stam sorcs get far less out of their class kit than their magicka equivalent. Why gut that too? For the sake of "because muh magsorc"?

mzprx wrote: »

when you say "Sorcerer" do you imagine a Stamina bow/weapons kind of character, or do you imagine a mage, wielding a staff and casting powerful spells around? so why does the Stamina version have a great class utility skill that provides the perfect combination of damage and survivability but a Magicka version doesn't? it makes no sense. at all..

Here we go again. Why is it so hard for people to grasp the class concept of this game? And yes, if you talk about a sorcerer in the elder scrolls universe, I imagine a heavy armored spellcaster with a melee weapon, just like in the previous TES games. What you mean is simply called a "Mage" in the TES universe.

mzprx wrote: »

so why does the Stamina version have a great class utility skill that provides the perfect combination of damage and survivability but a Magicka version doesn't? it makes no sense. at all..

Reeks of resentment. Before you imply to take away stamsorc toys and put it on mag, you should first ask to throw them a bone that is outside of the utility section. I know magsorcs got hit. I dropped Matriarch on my magsorc this patch in favor of Entropy + Crit Surge but our class won't be better if with gut it's bretheren.

mzprx wrote: »

Sorcerers a class healing skill they could have changed the Power Surge to the version we have now and added the Major Sorcery to the Critical Surge version.

At least everyone can agree on that.

well, i didn't mean to say that keeping the Critical Surge (the stamina version) the way it was is a bad idea. on the contrary, you are quite correct, stamSorcs have less skills in their class skill lines that they can use than magSorcs, so every chance to utilize their class abilities is welcome.i never said that we should "gut" stamSorcs, or take away anything from them, i was saying that for a damage dealer not having a class access to Major Sorcery is a weird idea, especially if you're a Sorcerer. like, really, what does anyone imagine when you say "Sorcerer"? regardless of class concept of this game (as you've mentioned) saying "Sorcerer" invokes a spell casting mage. the same way as when you say "Knight" you imagine someone in shining armour wielding a sword and a shield. it's just our perception based on what we've encountered in books and movies..

what i fail to understand in this whole situation is why nobody thought of putting the Major Sorcery in the Critical Surge skill? why keep the great utility of damage and healing for only one version of a Sorcerer? they (ZOS) have mentioned some time ago that they would like to decrease the gap between "the floor and the ceiling", meaning making the difference between the top players and casuals somewhat lower. now this change made magSorcs a lot squishier, harder to survive, harder to sustain and generally not really attractive for many players..

mzprx · August 2019

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

...You were condescending first. And of course it matters. You have to take into account everything when you talk about a skill, or you look uninformed. Which you did.

I already made my point, zos ought to have put the AOE healer skill in dark magic. Though I will tell you this, using entropy , which I swapped out for surge whole sale, I ran vMA no problem. DPS is about the same too, even using the matriarch.

my apologies, i never mean to sound condescending. truly sorry. no sarcasm intended here..

and yes, again, my apologies for looking uninformed. i never meant to say that i know all. i'm just working with what i see in front of me. will try to do a better job next time..

and you can run vMA even after the change, i can run vMA even after the change, and many a player can do it as well. but there are many other players that no longer can, or at least not without some extreme difficulties. pets are dying left and right in vMA so relying on the Matriarch is not the best idea, nobody is using the healing morph of Entropy (that i know of), everyone takes the Degeneration morph for sustain, so they rely on expensive potions or are forced to remove a great utility skill from their bar (Bound Aegis) to slot Critical Surge for the healing. and it all could have been so simple. just put the Major Sorcery on the Critical Surge morph. why did they (ZOS) think that messing up one version of Sorcerer (Magicka) while leaving the other (Stamina) version be is a great idea that everyone will appreciate is beyond me..

Chilly-McFreeze · August 2019

mzprx wrote: »

what i fail to understand in this whole situation is why nobody thought of putting the Major Sorcery in the Critical Surge skill? why keep the great utility of damage and healing for only one version of a Sorcerer? they (ZOS) have mentioned some time ago that they would like to decrease the gap between "the floor and the ceiling", meaning making the difference between the top players and casuals somewhat lower. now this change made magSorcs a lot squishier, harder to survive, harder to sustain and generally not really attractive for many players..

Hm... there's a couple of reasons that come to mind when I think about it. But non of them is pleasurable.

1) First off, they also mentioned they want to reduce redundancies. With the skill lines in the crown store they needed to make them attractive. Entropy got a huge buff, it grants major sorcery and a hot (or sustain on the other morph), so it kinda fills the gap power surge left a little bit.

2) They think magsorcs have enough survivability between shields, entropy, the matriach and resto heals (no dd runs it in pve, here it's via healers) and didn't want to buff Surge for mag sorc DDs.

3) They felt the need to throw a last minute bone to sorc healers.

4) End game mag sorcs didn't slot power surge anyway. But for those sorc builds that did, they needed to make (bar) space for the now buyable mage guild skills like Entropy and Rune. (This one is obviously sarcastic, but not necessarily untrue.).

In the end it's probably a mix of all those.

Up until the patch you either had no sorcery and higher self heals (crit surge) or comparably lower self heals but major sorcery. If they would put sorcery on the now buffed crit surge it would buff mS survivability. It's like they don'T want to add higher self hots to it for mag dds. I don't think that would make a huge difference but whatever.

How could we solve that "issue" and also give healers a toy? Two options.

Either (like someone above already mentioned) revert the power surge changes and give healers a skill in dark magic so they could also proc Exploitation easier. Maybe a morph of Mines so it becomes some healing runes? Or an Encase morph as AoE heal?

Or fiddle with Surge again. They love their kiss curse thingy so kinda that to it. Base morph grants both buffs (sorcery + brutality) and the ordinary heal (~2550?). Sacrifice sorcery on crit surge for higher heals (current version) and sacrifce brutality on power surge for the smart heal. I doubt we will see stam sorc healers at any time so there's no use for brutality on power surge anyway.

E: or, of course, just add sorcery to crit surge and let the higher self heal stay. Nerfed shields and matriach have to account for something.

chrightt · August 2019

They heard scrubs complaining on forums saying everything is OP, riding the magsorc is OP train while wearing 2x 5/5 of raw DPS medium while not having nearly enough skill sustaining it. They got no clue shields are actually weak compared to heals and they cry their eyes out for devs to nerf surge. It isn’t even that common a skill for magsorc in pvp.... I guess they wanted to create an unique skill for “healer sorc”. Please buff bound armor too so maybe we can see tank Sorcs. That would at least be interesting.

Major_Lag · August 2019

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Or an Encase morph as AoE heal?

That would make a lot of sense, actually.

Something along the lines of:
Restoring Shards
"Call forth Daedric shards from the earth to immobilize enemies heal allies in front of you for X health over [4 / 4.7 / 5.3 / 6] seconds. Gain Major Vitality Minor Mending for 2 seconds plus 1 second per enemy (or maybe ally???) in the area, up to 6."

InvictusApollo · August 2019

LightMaster7 wrote: »

Seriously I want the ZOS team to weigh in here and give us a damn good reason why you nerfed this skill?
It is literally one of the CORE critical skills for MagSorcs for healing during combat. Not to mention you already nerfed our shields.

This is INEXCUSEABLE. Prove to us why you nerfed this skill and what skill we should use in place of this and drop in our 5 *** limited skill bar and not drop our current DPS which you ALSO *** nerfed before?

I swear. At this rate who the *** would play this nerfmire game?

Both morphs should be giving Major Sorcery. One would be for healers and the other for DDs and PvP. And eveyone would be happy.

Chilly-McFreeze · August 2019

InvictusApollo wrote: »

LightMaster7 wrote: »

Seriously I want the ZOS team to weigh in here and give us a damn good reason why you nerfed this skill?
It is literally one of the CORE critical skills for MagSorcs for healing during combat. Not to mention you already nerfed our shields.

This is INEXCUSEABLE. Prove to us why you nerfed this skill and what skill we should use in place of this and drop in our 5 *** limited skill bar and not drop our current DPS which you ALSO *** nerfed before?

I swear. At this rate who the *** would play this nerfmire game?

Both morphs should be giving Major Sorcery. One would be for healers and the other for DDs and PvP. And eveyone would be happy.

Are healers really happy with power surge? I haven't touched a healer in a long time, so I seriously don't even know.

OG_Kaveman · August 2019

Major_Lag wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Or an Encase morph as AoE heal?

That would make a lot of sense, actually.

Something along the lines of:
Restoring Shards
"Call forth Daedric shards from the earth to immobilize enemies heal allies in front of you for X health over [4 / 4.7 / 5.3 / 6] seconds. Gain Major Vitality Minor Mending for 2 seconds plus 1 second per enemy (or maybe ally???) in the area, up to 6."

You can't take that away from sorc tanks tanks. The other morph is a much better candidate, since have you ever seen anyone use that? My personal choice would be daedric tomb. I would also have the ground AOE last for 20 seconds, since that is as long as the passive lasts for.

Major_Lag · August 2019

Daedric Tomb is a great, powerful spammable for heavy attack builds.

Sorc already has some decent burst heal capability - what's needed is a usable AoE HoT.
New Power Surge is kinda crap, area is large but the healing is very low. Never mind the proc condition.

Anyway, that was just an idea with one of the Encase morphs. ZOS probably won't listen to any of this though

OG_Kaveman · August 2019

Major_Lag wrote: »

Daedric Tomb is a great, powerful spammable for heavy attack builds.

Sorc already has some decent burst heal capability - what's needed is a usable AoE HoT.
New Power Surge is kinda crap, area is large but the healing is very low. Never mind the proc condition.

Anyway, that was just an idea with one of the Encase morphs. ZOS probably won't listen to any of this though

i get what you are saying though, i have used it, on my heavy attack pet build but have you tired just using frags? it out damages tomb, even just using it when it procs, and is cheaper, i am aware that that is not really a problem with heavy attack builds but still.