This Is Another Reason Why ESO Needs To Do Better...

Inaya · August 2019

chrightt wrote: »

Well lets be real, WoW classic just launched and nostalgia is what the gaming market is selling atm (just look at ragnarok M, Maplestory M, etc.). It really is quite hard to get people to watch RPGs when it is more fun to just play them yourself. WoW's viewership will probably drop in a week or so.

I'm willing to bet a vast number of people who were all nostalgic for classic wow don't remember how classic wow played. There is so much disappointment over the BFA xpac that classic was a nice diversion, something to look forward to. All the QOL things millions cried for aren't there and when the reality of it all hits, a lot will stop playing.

I played since vanilla and I think ESO, even with all it's issues is a much better game. You can fix server issues and bugs (even if it is slowly). You cannot fix the lack of vision, originality and complete disregard for it's players that Wow has sunk to.

idk · August 2019

shaielzafine wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

shaielzafine wrote: »

KharnTheUndying wrote: »

That is pathetic

Which bit is pathetic?

Also I'm watching these classic WoW streams and amazed at how buttery smooth the performance is. It's a very old game and ESO is prettier but it doesn't crash to login screen or send people into infinite loading screens or have obvious bugs as people are leveling to 60. I'm tempted to try WoW since a good number of my ESO friends jumped on the WoW hype train today.

Even the retail (current) version with updated graphics and animations runs 10x better than ESO. I didn't know what to do with myself with 200+ fps and 35ms ping

Even the updated version is still running on the same ancient engine as the original. That's like saying CS 1.6 runs great on your system. Well of course it does, it was designed to run on computers from 1999.

Server load is also much easier to manage on an older game when you're running it on modern servers.

ESO's performance needs to be compared against more demanding games, i.e. GW2, FFXIV, BDO, etc.

Like I said, WoW is a very old game. I played it a while back but have been watching streams instead of instantly jumping on the classic WoW train. When I played during BFA, the game had other issues.

Funny you mentioned FF and GW2. I tried GW2 last year, the game ran fine and didn't stutter even in PvP or meta events. And I've been subbed to FF14 since January and have found the game performance much much much better compared to ESO. Even though some servers have been DDoSed since expansion launch, the devs prepared well for everything. They created a third NA megaserver / datacenter with 8 servers in it before the expansions and instances in the new expansion zones were available and capped the number of players each to keep everything running smoothly. ESO has 1 NA megaserver and 1 EU megaserver. FF has multiple NA megaservers, 2 EU megaservers, and more JP megaservers. They also have separate Chinese and Korean versions of the game.

I would have not put FF in the same boat as GW2 and probably not included BDO.

FF, I have played, is more akin to WoW but made more recently. Each zone and server is significantly smaller than anything ESO has plus the graphics are childlike. BTW, the smaller servers is why FF can have so many servers. iirc, you can only have one character per server. That alone says much about the limitations of the design.

BDO has much less assets in their zones since it lacks much of the PvE aspect of ESO, FF, WoW or pretty much anything I have played outside of games actual PvP players would entertain.

I am glad you like FF. I really do. But it performs better because their design sets the bar low is so many areas.

angrylizard · August 2019

Inaya wrote: »

chrightt wrote: »

Well lets be real, WoW classic just launched and nostalgia is what the gaming market is selling atm (just look at ragnarok M, Maplestory M, etc.). It really is quite hard to get people to watch RPGs when it is more fun to just play them yourself. WoW's viewership will probably drop in a week or so.

I'm willing to bet a vast number of people who were all nostalgic for classic wow don't remember how classic wow played. There is so much disappointment over the BFA xpac that classic was a nice diversion, something to look forward to. All the QOL things millions cried for aren't there and when the reality of it all hits, a lot will stop playing.

I played since vanilla and I think ESO, even with all it's issues is a much better game. You can fix server issues and bugs (even if it is slowly). You cannot fix the lack of vision, originality and complete disregard for it's players that Wow has sunk to.

Try saying that to the pvp players of eso, see if they if they feel disregarded.

Inaya · August 2019

angrylizard wrote: »

Inaya wrote: »

chrightt wrote: »

Well lets be real, WoW classic just launched and nostalgia is what the gaming market is selling atm (just look at ragnarok M, Maplestory M, etc.). It really is quite hard to get people to watch RPGs when it is more fun to just play them yourself. WoW's viewership will probably drop in a week or so.

I'm willing to bet a vast number of people who were all nostalgic for classic wow don't remember how classic wow played. There is so much disappointment over the BFA xpac that classic was a nice diversion, something to look forward to. All the QOL things millions cried for aren't there and when the reality of it all hits, a lot will stop playing.

I played since vanilla and I think ESO, even with all it's issues is a much better game. You can fix server issues and bugs (even if it is slowly). You cannot fix the lack of vision, originality and complete disregard for it's players that Wow has sunk to.

Try saying that to the pvp players of eso, and see if they if they feel disregarded.

PVP players have ALWAYS FELT DISREGARDED IN Wow and have been very vocal. The PVE vs PVP argument was there from the start. I'm talking about a different type of disregard - taking things away players earned, removing vendors after players spent gold and time to buy the special item, announcing specific things and releasing something 20 levels lower...

KMarble · August 2019

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

I think many are unfortunately missing the point of this post. To elaborate a few things and reminders so we can hopefully stay on topic, a simple reminder:

IT IS
To highlight yet another important area of that game that is lacking, on a public platform. Rarely, if ever (other than chapter releases), do we see ESO in the public spotlight.

To imply that ESO deserves to be bigger and more popular than it is, and also to have more of a COMMUNITY push. Zenimax is in complete control of this.

To highlight the game is not doing as well as it could due to severe performance and ongoing bugs 5+ years on

To ensure that we, the ESO community want Zenimax to SHOW US that this game has a future and things will IMPROVE, not DECLINE

To note viewership metrics during major updates and releases, and also in the future show this info during less "popular & hyped" time-frames.

IT IS NOT
To advertise WoW, other MMO's, or promote any "fanboyism" in any way, but as a public comparison in the MMO category

To suggest that players from WoW should all migrate to ESO or vice-versa, or one game is "better" than the other. That is subjective and pointless.

To trigger and enrage anyone here on the forums. Please try to see the logic behind the post.

We can all agree to disagree here, but one thing we cannot is that ESO is not in as good of a place as it should be. This goes in every direction from platforms like Twitch all the way to the core of the game itself. We can easily compare metrics at any time frame and see very similar results. Whether you use Twitch or another platform to watch influencers or not, Zenimax has a huge push for the Twitch platform since it is a free advertising medium from a corporate standpoint. Regardless of Console or PC users it still is important to note these metrics from a logical standpoint since numbers are highly important to a games success and relevancy. Think of how you heard or saw ESO in action the first time, if it was on the Internet via a public medium (such as Twitch, Facebook, Website, etc) then that only solidifies the reasoning why metrics are so viable and important to note.

2019 has been another roller-coaster year for ESO, and hopefully with the Q4 2019/2020 plan Zenimax has outlined to fix performance related issues, we will see not only an increase in public interest but also much more of an enjoyable experience in-game over the next year (fingers crossed).

For those who want a more "Apples to Apples" viewership metric with another popular MMO, here is FFIV vs ESO on 8/26/19 during peak times and also during non-release cycles. While not as drastic in numbers, we can still see ESO is still not as good as it should be with ~30% difference in metrics with close to the same amount of followers (~3% difference):

1. If you watch ESO on Twitch, you know that the average viewers for it tend to be higher than that. There are a lot of factors that caused that low number. The most important one being this screenshot was probably taken the day WoW Classic dropped and everybody was curious.
2. If the theory that embedded videos skews the counts is to be believed, every single streamer with a website is doing the same, including Wow streamers. So any person going to WoW related websites looking for news could potentially increase viewership numbers.
3. One thing I noticed after trying to watch one well-known WoW streamer, is that they were more in line with what is perceived to be professional demeanor by Twitch standards.

Zenimax cannot be blamed for streamers (plural, and sadly becoming a trend in the ESO directory) who have the game running on the background and decide to make the stream about themselves and their woes. Mind you, those streamers aren't playing the game - at most, they'll move the char around so they don't get kicked out - they're just chatting (and Twitch has a directory for that called IRL).
People who went to Twitch to see the game being played won't stick around for that. People who go to Twitch to see if ESO is a game they want to play won't watch that either, and when the options you have are either to watch someone who (was lead to) believe(s) that their day to day activities are so interesting that other people will throw money at them, or streams with such bad quality that it looks like a PowerPoint presentation, many people won't come back.

scorpius2k1 · August 2019

JusticeForJilarga wrote: »

Whenever you do a comparison like this its bound to bring out people from both sides. It's foolish to think that a conversation like this will not. While this one would always welcome improvements (Performance issues aside) this one thinks the game is in a good place.

This one is just tired of people acting like they are handcuffed to a computer that only has ESO installed. This one cares little for WOW or if people want to play it as long as it does not interrupt this one enjoying these forums.

Absolutely agree and understand where you're coming from, I wasn't naive in my posting and expected such. Just a simple reminder of why the post was made in the first place. I would actually enjoy hearing your perspective on why you feel ESO is in a good place (no sarcasm or trolling, serious question). It would certainly help me broaden my views with others perspectives. ESO, to me, seems like it is kind of in a void right now with uncertain direction. Even the crown store has seemed to have less push and items from what I am used to seeing. I personally feel there are some internal changes going on at Zenimax, and hopefully they are good ones, especially in lieu of ESO. I also think the timing of Zenimax releasing such a major game-altering patch when WoW Classic was due out only a month later certainly had a bit of a negative impact, and then add all the issues over the last month. Timing is so critical for an online game, especially when there is so much competition. Even though a decrease in population is expected when other major MMO's release content, it is very hard to see how much less of a populace there are in busy areas such as cities and enclaves in ESO over the last few days. You can literally see the impact WoW is having right now, hopefully in a few weeks time that will be less AND I am hopeful during that timeframe ZOS can work on existing issues so returning players can have a better experience and not be reminded of why they took a break in the first place.

Drako_Ei · August 2019

Didnt you hear? They are killing it.

FlopsyPrince · August 2019

This topic may or may not have value (I lean toward the latter), but complaining that people bring up other MMOs (including WoW) when talking about ESO is not too bright.

It would be quite natural for some to complain about the food in one place (Burger King in the example above) comparing it to another place.

Logic is not strong in people these days.

JusticeForJilarga · August 2019

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

This topic may or may not have value (I lean toward the latter), but complaining that people bring up other MMOs (including WoW) when talking about ESO is not too bright.

It would be quite natural for some to complain about the food in one place (Burger King in the example above) comparing it to another place.

Logic is not strong in people these days.

But would you just stay in Burger King and just keep telling everyone else that Mcdonalds is better? What does that achieve? This one thinks you have missed the point completely.

vilio11 · August 2019

JusticeForJilarga wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Let's be honest here, what did Elsweyr deliver apart from fanservices? Elsweyr is a DLC content wise. Other MMOs deliver much more content in their expansions.

A fully fleshed out story with interesting Characters both old and new. An interesting new place with more activities to do. More back story on the Khajiit people. This one thinks you must be referring to a different Elsweyr.

1. Last year there was a game called Heroes of the Storm that died because most players were dogging every criticism of the game. There most loved answer was “IF you do not like the game go play LoL or Dota2”.
2. You are implying that other games don't deliver fully fleshed stories and more content activities?
3. Just because some people are preferring only the story ESO does not mean that all players are like that. Many people here are playing the game for are playing the game story and the new content activities in the game others are playing for the PvP and the story,others people are playing for the PvP and the story and the content activities. You can not judge the community by what you like.

Malprave · August 2019

Lmao! WoW is garbage.

JusticeForJilarga · August 2019

vilio11 wrote: »

JusticeForJilarga wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Let's be honest here, what did Elsweyr deliver apart from fanservices? Elsweyr is a DLC content wise. Other MMOs deliver much more content in their expansions.

A fully fleshed out story with interesting Characters both old and new. An interesting new place with more activities to do. More back story on the Khajiit people. This one thinks you must be referring to a different Elsweyr.

1. Last year there was a game called Heroes of the Storm that died because most players were dogging every criticism of the game. There most loved answer was “IF you do not like the game go play LoL or Dota2”.
2. You are implying that other games don't deliver fully fleshed stories and more content activities?
3. Just because some people are preferring only the story ESO does not mean that all players are like that. Many people here are playing the game for are playing the game story and the new content activities in the game others are playing for the PvP and the story,others people are playing for the PvP and the story and the content activities. You can not judge the community by what you like.

You are misunderstanding what this one said. Of course this one knows there are other groups of people that play this game. Like:

People who like Story.
People who like MMOS.
People who like Elder Scrolls.
People who like PVP.
People who like Group PVE Activities. (Like the Dungeon or Destiny's Raids)
People who like Socialising Games.
People Who like Role Playing Games.
People who like to Explore.
People who like to make a Cool Looking Character.

This one doubts you even though of some of these people.

Blinkin8r · August 2019

NB4Lock saying this isn't constructive lol

Hotel6 · August 2019

Well tbh,if u want to play AND stream eso at the same time, u will need to have a beast PC lmao.

Asys · August 2019

WoW is the most slow and boring combat i have ever tried. Stopped after 3min. Maybe 4min

Soul_Demon · August 2019

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

An initial comparison from the 1/25/19 Elsweyr announcement launch vs the WoW Classic launch today on 8/26/2019. Peak viewers for ESO broke about 120K and WoW peak broke 1 Million. Sure, it may just be Twitch, but we cannot dismiss these metrics because they very accurately show worldwide public interest on content launches. Even without WoW or other MMO content releases, ESO barely will see 10-11k concurrent viewers at the absolute maximum on a busy day. Prior to any launches and no special content being released, viewership for ESO is very subpar to any other in the same category to what it should be for being a modern AAA MMO if we are going to compare numbers on an "any day" average. These numbers show a trend over time. ZOS/Bethesda should do better with the COMMUNITY and engage them in more ways that they do now. There is a reason why 15 years later WoW is still doing so well, re-releasing 15 year old content and still knocking it out of the ballpark. While the current state of the company that runs WoW is a completely different animal than it was years back, the devs were about their COMMUNITY back then and players don't forget that. ESO has such a HUGE chance to get just as big if not bigger being a newer MMO, but how Zenimax is choosing to run the game on a constant slippery slope and intentionally or unintentionally NOT interacting with their community is a stark reflection of why there aren't more playing, and that's really upsetting for such an amazing game with such big potential. ESO is "flourishing", but only by ESO standards. It should be able to do so much better now and especially on new content releases than 10-12% that WoW does with content that is 15 years old.

Another reason why these numbers are very important is because Zenimax uses Twitch as it's main medium for viewership and rewards (such as Crate Drops, Mounts, etc). Numbers tell the real story in every area, not just in-game so it is worth mentioning this area is lacking greatly. We all love ESO and it's the #1 reason we are literally begging Zenimax to do right by this amazing game and it's community because we want success, not failure.

For those who want a more "Apples to Apples" and "fair" viewership metric with another popular MMO, here is FFIV vs ESO on 8/26/19 during peak times and also during non-release or hyped/advertising cycles. While not as drastic in numbers as with WoW, we can still see ESO is still not as good as it should be with ~30% difference in metrics with close to the same amount of followers (~3% difference)

EDIT: Added FFIV comparison metric

Good point....but there is quite a lot about ZOS that turns off players and the money they should be making. Coding....I mean what they have done since they dropped the originators of this game for 'bargain basement' battalion of coders and developers they have now is and should be an example of what NOT to do in the industry. Incapable of introducing anything since then that doesn't outright break the game- bugs, exploits and now the consecutive crashes in game....worst part is they know it, but lack the professionalism to address it.

Ultimately it will kill the game and what you post is merely the result of this approach played out over the years. Incompetence shows and even in the way they count the 'individual logins' in order to hide the number of players in an apparent attempt to 'convince' someone that they have more players than they do- the bottom line is ESO has shifted from industry trend setter (original development and implementation of the game) to Industry joke.

Thorvik_Tyrson · August 2019

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

YaYaPineapple wrote: »

No one here cares about WOW other than you OP.

Actually, I don't even play WoW...haven't since about 2008. In fact, I detest it anymore. ESO is my game. My post was simply to imply a logic here, try to see it.

I'm just thinking that you must have been really bored if you took the time to gather all that information and post it.

Personally, I don't understand the mindset that wants to watch other people play games on a regular basis. I can understand watching a boss fight to pick up the strategy used, but beyond that, I would rather play a game than watch someone else do it.

Katahdin · August 2019

I would rather play the game than watch someone else play the game

scorpius2k1 · August 2019

Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »

I'm just thinking that you must have been really bored if you took the time to gather all that information and post it.

Nope, not at all actually. It's because this is important to discuss and I care about ESO enough to talk about it with the community. As far as "boredom", far from it, In fact it was rather simple, I just gathered the info while on Twitch anyway. I had watched the Elsweyr announcement back in January, took a screen snip then. Yesterday I was already on Twitch checking out a few games and looked up WoW, FFIV, and ESO. While I was there, I took screen snips and combined the 4 images I had. Finally, I wrote the post. Took about 15 minutes altogether since January.

Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »

Personally, I don't understand the mindset that wants to watch other people play games on a regular basis. I can understand watching a boss fight to pick up the strategy used, but beyond that, I would rather play a game than watch someone else do it.

I absolutely agree...I play much more than I watch so it's not like watching Twitch excludes playing a game. Sometimes your at work or don't have access to the game, it's sometimes fun to watch. Things like this are important regardless of preference, and it's important to understand why when it comes to a business perspective. Another aspect not being discussed too much here is interacting. Many streamers are part of our very own ESO community. It's much akin to how we all talk with people in-game in zone chat and groups. Twitch and other platforms offer that same type of connection outside of the game too. Many of them are great and get to talk to and interact with. This also creates a personal connection with the game and involved parties which is good for business since they will likely be in the game (their product) more often, in turn, monetary potential goes up. The other aspect here is when you subscribe to a Twitch streamer, that creates income not only for the streamer, but for the company/companies involved as well. It's very easy to see how important these platforms are to online gaming companies. Just look at Zenimax's latest announcement today...

"Get your hands on a unique Elder Scrolls Online pet and mount with this month-long Twitch Prime promotion"
https://elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/56855

Zenimax very obviously pushes Twitch and online viewership and interaction regularly, I would even go as far to say it's next in line in importance to how often they push sales in the Crown Store. I don't have to say the reason here, it should be obvious, $$$. In my line of work I pay close attention to these types of things anyway so it is less broadened for me to see forecasting, trends, and patterns online that are indeed important aspects to a company internally. A simple viewpoint: If 100 people publicly visit Twitch, YouTube, etc and check out ESO in action, there is a very good chance many of them will come check out the game where they might not have otherwise. It all boils down to potential and/or guaranteed monetary gain, and higher numbers in viewership typically = more income. Metrics are a huge deal for companies nowadays whether it's social media, streaming, etc, they all depend on them. The higher, the better. It's all part of that bottom line, and in the end it WILL affect all of us whether or not we personally watch streams or interact on social media, so it is very important to have awareness.

idk · August 2019

JusticeForJilarga wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

This topic may or may not have value (I lean toward the latter), but complaining that people bring up other MMOs (including WoW) when talking about ESO is not too bright.

It would be quite natural for some to complain about the food in one place (Burger King in the example above) comparing it to another place.

Logic is not strong in people these days.

But would you just stay in Burger King and just keep telling everyone else that Mcdonalds is better? What does that achieve? This one thinks you have missed the point completely.

This hits the mark. Those playing ESO are not very interested in an antiquated MMORPG design. That is why we are here. Granted, some that came from WoW will go back and check out what is new for nostalgic sake.

Heck, more people have played WoW over it's decade plus long existence so it makes sense streamers of that game would be popular at a release.

But in the end, what OP has presented is pretty meaningless. WoW is no threat to ESO. It is a dying game where ESO has been gaining players.

scorpius2k1 · August 2019

idk wrote: »

But in the end, what OP has presented is pretty meaningless. WoW is no threat to ESO. It is a dying game where ESO has been gaining players.

It's really not about a threat from another MMO such as WoW or FFIV, it's because metrics are a another very important aspect that shouldn't be shrugged off or ignored. It can and does affect the bottom line quite a bit. Have a read on my post just directly before yours which goes into a bit of detail regarding why this is important to discuss.

jainiadral · August 2019

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

I think many are unfortunately missing the point of this post. To elaborate a few things and reminders so we can hopefully stay on topic, a simple reminder:

IT IS
To highlight yet another important area of that game that is lacking, on a public platform. Rarely, if ever (other than chapter releases), do we see ESO in the public spotlight.

To imply that ESO deserves to be bigger and more popular than it is, and also to have more of a COMMUNITY push. Zenimax is in complete control of this.

To highlight the game is not doing as well as it could due to severe performance and ongoing bugs 5+ years on

To ensure that we, the ESO community want Zenimax to SHOW US that this game has a future and things will IMPROVE, not DECLINE

To note viewership metrics during major updates and releases, and also in the future show this info during less "popular & hyped" time-frames.

We can all agree to disagree here, but one thing we cannot is that ESO is not in as good of a place as it should be. This goes in every direction from platforms like Twitch all the way to the core of the game itself. We can easily compare metrics at any time frame and see very similar results. Whether you use Twitch or another platform to watch influencers or not, Zenimax has a huge push for the Twitch platform since it is a free advertising medium from a corporate standpoint. Regardless of Console or PC users it still is important to note these metrics from a logical standpoint since numbers are highly important to a games success and relevancy. Think of how you heard or saw ESO in action the first time, if it was on the Internet via a public medium (such as Twitch, Facebook, Website, etc) then that only solidifies the reasoning why metrics are so viable and important to note.

I guess the best way to start this is to point out that you're melding a couple of incompatible viewpoints together and using a flawed metric to back up your point.

1. I agree the game isn't in a good place from a player's perspective. Bad performance, wonky balancing, unfixable bugs, etc. are making the game less enjoyable to play.
2. This doesn't mean the game is in a bad or declining financial position. From ZOS' perspective, the game might be in the best place ever. We can hypothesize until the cows come home about sales and revenue, but we don't have current information.
3. Twitch metrics say little about a game above and beyond whether it's fun to watch. Sure, it's a vague indicator of popularity, but it lacks the granularity you need to draw real and valid conclusions about a game's population. This could be for a number of reasons like the demographic composition of its population. Twitch viewership skews young, while ESO seems to have a debatably older population.

You ask about how I heard of ESO. I'd read about it in the gaming press at launch, found out it was sub only after a $50 or $60 purchase. Kept it mentally on the back burner until I heard they dropped the sub. I finally tried it during a free Steam weekend and bought it when the price dropped to $10. I found out what ESO was like in action by being the action

Twitch had zero to do with it.

CiliPadi · August 2019

Does WoW have Oceanic/Asia servers?

Synnastix · August 2019

NES classic was gold with a ton of nostalgia hype when it was released, but how many people who got one still play it?

Runkorko · August 2019

CiliPadi wrote: »

Does WoW have Oceanic/Asia servers?

https://imgur.com/INMfUjQ
Yes
Plus NA and Asia separate client/servers

Kalante · August 2019

ESO will never see a day where it reaches over 500k-1m viewers or have dedicated streamers like asmongold or sodapop that gain over 30k viewers consistently in WoW. Even shroud gets over 30k viewers and he is not a WoW streamer. When shroud came to stream eso he could barely even break 15k viewers.

Eso will never have dedicated streamers because the game performance runs horrible and the balance is non existent at this point where you just spam dots and bleeds. No one wants to submit to such masochism. Even PVE is now plagued with horrible frame rates and bugs. Console you basically have to beat trials in under an hour otherwise the frame rate goes down the longer you stay in there.

People can stick their head under the dirt and act like ESO is a great game but in reality it's not. The 2015-2016 eso was a great game with potential. Not current eso not even close. That Q2020 update that supposedly will "fix" the problems this game has accumulated and been ignored for the past 3 years is the only redeeming factor zos has left.

All in all Numbers don't lie.

Tigerseye · August 2019

I haven't played WoW since WoD.

I did not like the direction they took after MoP.

I really didn't like their mentality, at the time.

Classic doesn't really interest me and WoW doesn't have player housing.

There are still (I presume?) good things about WoW (like ranged DPS equality, LFR and multiple, tamable hunter pets), versions of which could and should be incorporated into ESO, but there are also good things in this game, that WoW could look into providing, too.

An ideal game, for me, would incorporate all the best bits of WoW, ESO and GW2 and leave out all the less good bits.

Tigerseye · August 2019

shaielzafine wrote: »

KharnTheUndying wrote: »

That is pathetic

Which bit is pathetic?

Also I'm watching these classic WoW streams and amazed at how buttery smooth the performance is. It's a very old game and ESO is prettier but it doesn't crash to login screen or send people into infinite loading screens or have obvious bugs as people are leveling to 60. I'm tempted to try WoW since a good number of my ESO friends jumped on the WoW hype train today.

One of the better things about WoW is that it is technically very competent.

Performance is good, bugs are few (and quickly dealt with), PVE balance is relatively good etc..

idk · August 2019

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

But in the end, what OP has presented is pretty meaningless. WoW is no threat to ESO. It is a dying game where ESO has been gaining players.

It's really not about a threat from another MMO such as WoW or FFIV, it's because metrics are a another very important aspect that shouldn't be shrugged off or ignored. It can and does affect the bottom line quite a bit. Have a read on my post just directly before yours which goes into a bit of detail regarding why this is important to discuss.

Meh. Wow has been around for ages. As of 5 years ago they had over 100k accounts created. I would even suggest they might be a larger IP and TES even though TES actually has multiple titles.

I would expect many to tune in to see what has changed when something drops. Considering that and the reality that WoW is has been on the decline where the only measurement we have for ESO shows their active player base has been on a continual increase.

So yes, If I was a business person at Zos I would always be looking for new and improved ways to get more customers coming through the door but I would also be pleased with the success we are having and no be looking at WoW for the example since they are losing customers. (PS is has been well kno

Steam chars for ESO are the only information we have to show growth or decline with the game. If you look at month over same month the year before it shows almost every time a growth in players. Certainly an overall growth lasting the past few years.

Granted, it does not show the whole picture, just one group. Link to show I am not pulling this out of my hat https://steamcharts.com/app/306130 While Zos is not managing the game very well, lots of crashes and more, but they seem to be handling getting feet to come through the door.

KMarble · August 2019

Kalante wrote: »

Even shroud gets over 30k viewers and he is not a WoW streamer. When shroud came to stream eso he could barely even break 15k viewers.

Eso will never have dedicated streamers because the game performance runs horrible and the balance is non existent at this point where you just spam dots and bleeds. No one wants to submit to such masochism. Even PVE is now plagued with horrible frame rates and bugs. Console you basically have to beat trials in under an hour otherwise the frame rate goes down the longer you stay in there.

(snip)

All in all Numbers don't lie.

Emphasis mine.

Streamers make money by getting people to subscribe, give bits and money to them. The higher the number of people watching, the higher is the change of those happening (subs, bits and tips). Some streamers also have deals with outside businesses and get paid a fixed monthly fee and/or a percentage when viewers use their referral codes.

As you said, numbers don't lie. Why would any streamer settle for half the viewership they could get? I very much doubt Shroud ditched ESO because of bugs or game performance.

Do you know which game also brought huge numbers of viewers to Twitch? Sea of Thieves, when it was first released with 4 fetch quests and nothing else to do. Because people love a dumpster fire.

Correlating Twitch's viewership to the vitality of a game is very shortsighted to say the least. I'd say that the streamer is more of a factor in the numbers than the game they are playing, but as you pointed above, even popular streamers get lower numbers when playing ESO. It might have more to do with the silly zero-sum mentality that many people playing games have ( "if I play game X I have to hate all the others in the same genre")