This Is Another Reason Why ESO Needs To Do Better...

mikemacon · August 2019

You’re comparing apples to zebras.

WoW, though dying (outside of Classic hype) has a far larger playerbase than ESO and has been around far longer. It’s Twitch viewership dwarfs most other games and certainly is the gorilla on the MMORPG block.

There’s so much playerbase inertia with WoW that that’s not going to change any time soon.

Ash_In_My_Sujamma · August 2019

mikemacon wrote: »

You’re comparing apples to zebras.

WoW, though dying (outside of Classic hype) has a far larger playerbase than ESO and has been around far longer. It’s Twitch viewership dwarfs most other games and certainly is the gorilla on the MMORPG block.

There’s so much playerbase inertia with WoW that that’s not going to change any time soon.

But eso had the spotlight multiple times and instead of putting a nice performance and winning the love of the audience, ended up vomiting and running off stage.

amir412 · August 2019

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

An initial comparison from the 1/25/19 Elsweyr announcement launch vs the WoW Classic launch today on 8/26/2019. Peak viewers for ESO broke about 120K and WoW peak broke 1 Million. Sure, it may just be Twitch, but we cannot dismiss these metrics because they very accurately show worldwide public interest on content launches. Even without WoW or other MMO content releases, ESO barely will see 10-11k concurrent viewers at the absolute maximum on a busy day. Prior to any launches and no special content being released, viewership for ESO is very subpar to any other in the same category to what it should be for being a modern AAA MMO if we are going to compare numbers on an "any day" average. These numbers show a trend over time. ZOS/Bethesda should do better with the COMMUNITY and engage them in more ways that they do now. There is a reason why 15 years later WoW is still doing so well, re-releasing 15 year old content and still knocking it out of the ballpark. While the current state of the company that runs WoW is a completely different animal than it was years back, the devs were about their COMMUNITY back then and players don't forget that. ESO has such a HUGE chance to get just as big if not bigger being a newer MMO, but how Zenimax is choosing to run the game on a constant slippery slope and intentionally or unintentionally NOT interacting with their community is a stark reflection of why there aren't more playing, and that's really upsetting for such an amazing game with such big potential. ESO is "flourishing", but only by ESO standards. It should be able to do so much better now and especially on new content releases than 10-12% that WoW does with content that is 15 years old.

Another reason why these numbers are very important is because Zenimax uses Twitch as it's main medium for viewership and rewards (such as Crate Drops, Mounts, etc). Numbers tell the real story in every area, not just in-game so it is worth mentioning this area is lacking greatly. We all love ESO and it's the #1 reason we are literally begging Zenimax to do right by this amazing game and it's community because we want success, not failure.

The 10k viewers you see on specific eso's streamers is a lie,
They implant iFrames in their site, so who ever is in the website checking for builds,etc will consider as a viewer..
I cant remember, but there is a tool that lets you see the actual numbers.

So at the bottom line, the state is worse than you describe, as its way less than 10k viewers.

https://maxmediacreates.com/streaming/embed-twitch-stream-with-chat-wordpress/

Facefister · August 2019

Let's be honest here, what did Elsweyr deliver apart from fanservices? Elsweyr is a DLC content wise. Other MMOs deliver much more content in their expansions.

JusticeForJilarga · August 2019

Facefister wrote: »

Let's be honest here, what did Elsweyr deliver apart from fanservices? Elsweyr is a DLC content wise. Other MMOs deliver much more content in their expansions.

A fully fleshed out story with interesting Characters both old and new. An interesting new place with more activities to do. More back story on the Khajiit people. This one thinks you must be referring to a different Elsweyr.

Facefister · August 2019

JusticeForJilarga wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Let's be honest here, what did Elsweyr deliver apart from fanservices? Elsweyr is a DLC content wise. Other MMOs deliver much more content in their expansions.

A fully fleshed out story with interesting Characters both old and new. An interesting new place with more activities to do. More back story on the Khajiit people. This one thinks you must be referring to a different Elsweyr.

You imply that other MMOs don't deliver fully fleshed stories and new places with more activities with their expansions. They also do that, and apart from that, they also deliver dozens of other content which ESO can't even dream of.

Tatanko · August 2019

I'd like to point out that Twitch viewership was likely even higher than it *should* have been because nobody could actually play yesterday. People waiting in queue were likely watching streams to get a sense of what was happening while they were locked out. Others may even wait a few days before playing instead of sitting in queue, and want to feel "involved" in the mean time (several of my own friends are doing exactly this).

There are also a lot of people who want to try out Classic who played vanilla, but likely won't stay committed long-term. It's just fleeting nostalgia.

JusticeForJilarga · August 2019

Facefister wrote: »

JusticeForJilarga wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Let's be honest here, what did Elsweyr deliver apart from fanservices? Elsweyr is a DLC content wise. Other MMOs deliver much more content in their expansions.

A fully fleshed out story with interesting Characters both old and new. An interesting new place with more activities to do. More back story on the Khajiit people. This one thinks you must be referring to a different Elsweyr.

You imply that other MMOs don't deliver fully fleshed stories and new places with more activities with their expansions. They also do that, and apart from that, they also deliver dozens of other content which ESO can't even dream of.

Believe it or not alot of people prefer the story in Elder Scrolls online and wouldn't be interested in other MMOs.

If you say these other MMOs "deliver dozens of other content which ESO can't even dream of" then why are you here? Nobody is forcing you to be here. Why not play these other MMOs and let people who enjoy ESO enjoy ESO?

JusticeForJilarga · August 2019

Tatanko wrote: »

I'd like to point out that Twitch viewership was likely even higher than it *should* have been because nobody could actually play yesterday. People waiting in queue were likely watching streams to get a sense of what was happening while they were locked out. Others may even wait a few days before playing instead of sitting in queue, and want to feel "involved" in the mean time (several of my own friends are doing exactly this).

There are also a lot of people who want to try out Classic who played vanilla, but likely won't stay committed long-term. It's just fleeting nostalgia.

This one thinks they have a good point. This one doubts this large viewership will last long.

redgreensunset · August 2019

shaielzafine wrote: »

KharnTheUndying wrote: »

That is pathetic

Which bit is pathetic?

Also I'm watching these classic WoW streams and amazed at how buttery smooth the performance is. It's a very old game and ESO is prettier but it doesn't crash to login screen or send people into infinite loading screens or have obvious bugs as people are leveling to 60. I'm tempted to try WoW since a good number of my ESO friends jumped on the WoW hype train today.

WoW is literally 15 years old, you're technically running a 15 year old game. Of course it runs smoothly. My old notebook can run the Classic version of WoW smoothly at top graphics and it is by no means a gaming monster, or any kind of gaming laptop.
All I got from those streams are people being upset at the exact same things people complained about in Vanilla WoW. Personally I'm howling, what did you all think you were getting. Please jump on the hypetrain, the rest of us will still be here when you get off again because you all recall how terrible the classic version of WoW actually were.

CynicK · August 2019

Graphics and gameplay, I could not go back to WOW's graphics and I have to say that although not as fun as neverwinter eso gamplay is a lot of fun and eso is all voice acted. I do not know the numbers but they have to improve the servers recently because they have a lot of new players.
ESO is a great game, maybe it does not have the numbers of WOW because I am sure there are a lot of wow players that will not start over anywhere else and has a bigger playerbase from years ago.
And they fix the game I check the patch notes and they go fixing things everytime.

redgreensunset · August 2019

On that note, can all the WoW fanboys leave already. No one cares about you or your opinion. If you like WoW so much better then by all means pop on over there and don't let the door hit you on the way out. The rest of us could not care less if we tried except you all insist on clogging up the forum with irrelevant posts.

JusticeForJilarga · August 2019

redgreensunset wrote: »

On that note, can all the WoW fanboys leave already. No one cares about you or your opinion. If you like WoW so much better then by all means pop on over there and don't let the door hit you on the way out. The rest of us could not care less if we tried except you all insist on clogging up the forum with irrelevant posts.

This one agrees. It's like sitting around at Burger King saying that their latest burger was bland and that Mcdonald's has way better burgers. Burgers that Burger King could only dream of making but despite saying that never actually leaves to go to Mcdonalds. Just staying there, bothering people trying to enjoy their Burger King Burger.

Juhasow · August 2019

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

YaYaPineapple wrote: »

No one here cares about WOW other than you OP.

Actually, I don't even play WoW...haven't since about 2008. In fact, I detest it anymore. ESO is my game. My post was simply to imply a logic here, try to see it.

Problem is You're using heuristics , which may be misleading. Taking 2 numbers and comparing them without any extended context is not the most logical move.

Rave the Histborn · August 2019

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

An initial comparison from the 1/25/19 Elsweyr announcement launch vs the WoW Classic launch today on 8/26/2019. Peak viewers for ESO broke about 120K and WoW peak broke 1 Million. Sure, it may just be Twitch, but we cannot dismiss these metrics because they very accurately show worldwide public interest on content launches. Even without WoW or other MMO content releases, ESO barely will see 10-11k concurrent viewers at the absolute maximum on a busy day. Prior to any launches and no special content being released, viewership for ESO is very subpar to any other in the same category to what it should be for being a modern AAA MMO if we are going to compare numbers on an "any day" average. These numbers show a trend over time. ZOS/Bethesda should do better with the COMMUNITY and engage them in more ways that they do now. There is a reason why 15 years later WoW is still doing so well, re-releasing 15 year old content and still knocking it out of the ballpark. While the current state of the company that runs WoW is a completely different animal than it was years back, the devs were about their COMMUNITY back then and players don't forget that. ESO has such a HUGE chance to get just as big if not bigger being a newer MMO, but how Zenimax is choosing to run the game on a constant slippery slope and intentionally or unintentionally NOT interacting with their community is a stark reflection of why there aren't more playing, and that's really upsetting for such an amazing game with such big potential. ESO is "flourishing", but only by ESO standards. It should be able to do so much better now and especially on new content releases than 10-12% that WoW does with content that is 15 years old.

Another reason why these numbers are very important is because Zenimax uses Twitch as it's main medium for viewership and rewards (such as Crate Drops, Mounts, etc). Numbers tell the real story in every area, not just in-game so it is worth mentioning this area is lacking greatly. We all love ESO and it's the #1 reason we are literally begging Zenimax to do right by this amazing game and it's community because we want success, not failure.

I think its more telling that Blizzard has royally *** up WoW when so many people are craving the original 15 yr old version of WoW vs the WoW of 2019 with all of its expansions.

It's also hard to compare a dlc to a full version of a game release, they're naturally not going to pull in equal numbers.

Rave the Histborn · August 2019

shaielzafine wrote: »

KharnTheUndying wrote: »

That is pathetic

Which bit is pathetic?

Also I'm watching these classic WoW streams and amazed at how buttery smooth the performance is. It's a very old game and ESO is prettier but it doesn't crash to login screen or send people into infinite loading screens or have obvious bugs as people are leveling to 60. I'm tempted to try WoW since a good number of my ESO friends jumped on the WoW hype train today.

Having played vanilla WoW, the entire game is like an infinite load screen. Horrid travel system, comatose combat, decent but directionless pvp, and so many gathering quests you'll wish you dc'd just to have a change of pace

Chicharron · August 2019

JusticeForJilarga wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Let's be honest here, what did Elsweyr deliver apart from fanservices? Elsweyr is a DLC content wise. Other MMOs deliver much more content in their expansions.

A fully fleshed out story with interesting Characters both old and new. An interesting new place with more activities to do. More back story on the Khajiit people. This one thinks you must be referring to a different Elsweyr.

The opinion of someone who thinks it is a cat is not a valid opinion when talking about cats.

Wifeaggro13 · August 2019

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

An initial comparison from the 1/25/19 Elsweyr announcement launch vs the WoW Classic launch today on 8/26/2019. Peak viewers for ESO broke about 120K and WoW peak broke 1 Million. Sure, it may just be Twitch, but we cannot dismiss these metrics because they very accurately show worldwide public interest on content launches. Even without WoW or other MMO content releases, ESO barely will see 10-11k concurrent viewers at the absolute maximum on a busy day. Prior to any launches and no special content being released, viewership for ESO is very subpar to any other in the same category to what it should be for being a modern AAA MMO if we are going to compare numbers on an "any day" average. These numbers show a trend over time. ZOS/Bethesda should do better with the COMMUNITY and engage them in more ways that they do now. There is a reason why 15 years later WoW is still doing so well, re-releasing 15 year old content and still knocking it out of the ballpark. While the current state of the company that runs WoW is a completely different animal than it was years back, the devs were about their COMMUNITY back then and players don't forget that. ESO has such a HUGE chance to get just as big if not bigger being a newer MMO, but how Zenimax is choosing to run the game on a constant slippery slope and intentionally or unintentionally NOT interacting with their community is a stark reflection of why there aren't more playing, and that's really upsetting for such an amazing game with such big potential. ESO is "flourishing", but only by ESO standards. It should be able to do so much better now and especially on new content releases than 10-12% that WoW does with content that is 15 years old.

Another reason why these numbers are very important is because Zenimax uses Twitch as it's main medium for viewership and rewards (such as Crate Drops, Mounts, etc). Numbers tell the real story in every area, not just in-game so it is worth mentioning this area is lacking greatly. We all love ESO and it's the #1 reason we are literally begging Zenimax to do right by this amazing game and it's community because we want success, not failure.

Your forgetting a huge principle here though. Five years post launch Wow was making their game better at this point. Content was slower sure but when they charged you 49 bucks for an expansion it was massive. ZOS at this point is not making their game better., actually they are making it worse with homogenized game play. In all aspects across the board from performance to gameplay I can't say the game is better then it was in 2016. Its bigger for sure but its mindless content for the most part with two broken classes. Truthfully it's a sad day when game play from 2004 garners more attention and excites the MMO community more then this game. Remember the ES IP is massive and has been around much longer then WOW. Yet it couldn't grab traction to even get in the ring with it.

Kagukan · August 2019

I am patiently waiting for a pong classic mmo.

Hallothiel · August 2019

@xbangax

I understand marketing etc quite well. I am just bemused by such things as watching someone play a game you yourself could actually be playing. But then I am perhaps too old and just don’t get all the YouTube / Twitch / even Instagram & Facebook crap.

And I said that I thought that WOW looks childish; that is different from saying I think those that play it are - you inferred that.

Have a nice day.

Aldrik41 · August 2019

I can never understand wow fans, they advertise their game wherever possible, on any forums, in steam, but they themselves have not played it for a long time.

Block this thread, let the wow players be on the wow forum, and there they write about their wonderful game.

Tired of ...wow

Vlad9425 · August 2019

This game had one of the worst launches ever which gave it a very poor reputation and it’s never truly recovered from this. Also they haven’t helped themselves by ignoring the awful game performance which has plagued the game for ages now.

Runkorko · August 2019

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

An initial comparison from the 1/25/19 Elsweyr announcement launch vs the WoW Classic launch today on 8/26/2019. Peak viewers for ESO broke about 120K and WoW peak broke 1 Million. Sure, it may just be Twitch, but we cannot dismiss these metrics because they very accurately show worldwide public interest on content launches. Even without WoW or other MMO content releases, ESO barely will see 10-11k concurrent viewers at the absolute maximum on a busy day. Prior to any launches and no special content being released, viewership for ESO is very subpar to any other in the same category to what it should be for being a modern AAA MMO if we are going to compare numbers on an "any day" average. These numbers show a trend over time. ZOS/Bethesda should do better with the COMMUNITY and engage them in more ways that they do now. There is a reason why 15 years later WoW is still doing so well, re-releasing 15 year old content and still knocking it out of the ballpark. While the current state of the company that runs WoW is a completely different animal than it was years back, the devs were about their COMMUNITY back then and players don't forget that. ESO has such a HUGE chance to get just as big if not bigger being a newer MMO, but how Zenimax is choosing to run the game on a constant slippery slope and intentionally or unintentionally NOT interacting with their community is a stark reflection of why there aren't more playing, and that's really upsetting for such an amazing game with such big potential. ESO is "flourishing", but only by ESO standards. It should be able to do so much better now and especially on new content releases than 10-12% that WoW does with content that is 15 years old.

Another reason why these numbers are very important is because Zenimax uses Twitch as it's main medium for viewership and rewards (such as Crate Drops, Mounts, etc). Numbers tell the real story in every area, not just in-game so it is worth mentioning this area is lacking greatly. We all love ESO and it's the #1 reason we are literally begging Zenimax to do right by this amazing game and it's community because we want success, not failure.

I was about to go to bed but your silly post keep me up
How many years you play wow? To be able to say how good wow performs.... (14+ here)
Wow clasic will be a fail, death town 2 months after release.
There is a wow expansion commin in december so bli$$ard try to keep player base hooked because game has nothing to ofer, but vanila.
You know that disney will buy activison blizzard yes? We all know what will happens later.
About so many ppl watching wow. Sure. But let me tell you smth. They mostly watch it because of the streamers like mr ASSmongold and Sodapopin.
Let mr Ass and Soda stream EsO and the see how numbers will increase.
And trust me m8, you dont want this ppl in EsO.
Enjoy what you have. Judge by the numbers playing the game not from how much watching it on twich....
EsO have one of the best model and game content atm.

There you can see how better wow performs (ANY of his videos)
https://www.youtube.com/user/HeelvsBabyface

Enjoy

FinneganFroth · August 2019

Also,

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/cw3adq/people_waiting_in_lines_to_kill_a_quest_mob_in/

Darkenarlol · August 2019

so bored with wow fanboys...

andreasv · August 2019

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

An initial comparison from the 1/25/19 Elsweyr announcement launch vs the WoW Classic launch today on 8/26/2019. Peak viewers for ESO broke about 120K and WoW peak broke 1 Million. Sure, it may just be Twitch, but we cannot dismiss these metrics because they very accurately show worldwide public interest on content launches. Even without WoW or other MMO content releases, ESO barely will see 10-11k concurrent viewers at the absolute maximum on a busy day. Prior to any launches and no special content being released, viewership for ESO is very subpar to any other in the same category to what it should be for being a modern AAA MMO if we are going to compare numbers on an "any day" average. These numbers show a trend over time. ZOS/Bethesda should do better with the COMMUNITY and engage them in more ways that they do now. There is a reason why 15 years later WoW is still doing so well, re-releasing 15 year old content and still knocking it out of the ballpark. While the current state of the company that runs WoW is a completely different animal than it was years back, the devs were about their COMMUNITY back then and players don't forget that. ESO has such a HUGE chance to get just as big if not bigger being a newer MMO, but how Zenimax is choosing to run the game on a constant slippery slope and intentionally or unintentionally NOT interacting with their community is a stark reflection of why there aren't more playing, and that's really upsetting for such an amazing game with such big potential. ESO is "flourishing", but only by ESO standards. It should be able to do so much better now and especially on new content releases than 10-12% that WoW does with content that is 15 years old.

Another reason why these numbers are very important is because Zenimax uses Twitch as it's main medium for viewership and rewards (such as Crate Drops, Mounts, etc). Numbers tell the real story in every area, not just in-game so it is worth mentioning this area is lacking greatly. We all love ESO and it's the #1 reason we are literally begging Zenimax to do right by this amazing game and it's community because we want success, not failure.

I was about to go to bed but your silly post keep me up
How many years you play wow? To be able to say how good wow performs.... (14+ here)
Wow clasic will be a fail, death town 2 months after release.
There is a wow expansion commin in december so bli$$ard try to keep player base hooked because game has nothing to ofer, but vanila.
You know that disney will buy activison blizzard yes? We all know what will happens later.
About so many ppl watching wow. Sure. But let me tell you smth. They mostly watch it because of the streamers like mr ASSmongold and Sodapopin.
Let mr Ass and Soda stream EsO and the see how numbers will increase.
And trust me m8, you dont want this ppl in EsO.
Enjoy what you have. Judge by the numbers playing the game not from how much watching it on twich....
EsO have one of the best model and game content atm.

There you can see how better wow performs (ANY of his videos)
https://www.youtube.com/user/HeelvsBabyface

Enjoy

Dude, eat a Snickers!

scorpius2k1 · August 2019

I think many are unfortunately missing the point of this post. To elaborate a few things and reminders so we can hopefully stay on topic, a simple reminder:

IT IS

To highlight yet another important area of that game that is lacking, on a public platform. Rarely, if ever (other than chapter releases), do we see ESO in the public spotlight.
To imply that ESO deserves to be bigger and more popular than it is, and also to have more of a COMMUNITY push. Zenimax is in complete control of this.
To highlight the game is not doing as well as it could due to severe performance and ongoing bugs 5+ years on
To ensure that we, the ESO community want Zenimax to SHOW US that this game has a future and things will IMPROVE, not DECLINE
To note viewership metrics during major updates and releases, and also in the future show this info during less "popular & hyped" time-frames.

IT IS NOT

To advertise WoW, other MMO's, or promote any "fanboyism" in any way, but as a public comparison in the MMO category
To suggest that players from WoW should all migrate to ESO or vice-versa, or one game is "better" than the other. That is subjective and pointless.
To trigger and enrage anyone here on the forums. Please try to see the logic behind the post.

We can all agree to disagree here, but one thing we cannot is that ESO is not in as good of a place as it should be. This goes in every direction from platforms like Twitch all the way to the core of the game itself. We can easily compare metrics at any time frame and see very similar results. Whether you use Twitch or another platform to watch influencers or not, Zenimax has a huge push for the Twitch platform since it is a free advertising medium from a corporate standpoint. Regardless of Console or PC users it still is important to note these metrics from a logical standpoint since numbers are highly important to a games success and relevancy. Think of how you heard or saw ESO in action the first time, if it was on the Internet via a public medium (such as Twitch, Facebook, Website, etc) then that only solidifies the reasoning why metrics are so viable and important to note.

2019 has been another roller-coaster year for ESO, and hopefully with the Q4 2019/2020 plan Zenimax has outlined to fix performance related issues, we will see not only an increase in public interest but also much more of an enjoyable experience in-game over the next year (fingers crossed).

For those who want a more "Apples to Apples" viewership metric with another popular MMO, here is FFIV vs ESO on 8/26/19 during peak times and also during non-release cycles. While not as drastic in numbers, we can still see ESO is still not as good as it should be with ~30% difference in metrics with close to the same amount of followers (~3% difference):

valkyrie93 · August 2019

JusticeForJilarga wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

On that note, can all the WoW fanboys leave already. No one cares about you or your opinion. If you like WoW so much better then by all means pop on over there and don't let the door hit you on the way out. The rest of us could not care less if we tried except you all insist on clogging up the forum with irrelevant posts.

This one agrees. It's like sitting around at Burger King saying that their latest burger was bland and that Mcdonald's has way better burgers. Burgers that Burger King could only dream of making but despite saying that never actually leaves to go to Mcdonalds. Just staying there, bothering people trying to enjoy their Burger King Burger.

are you joking, burger king is way better than mcdonalds. or was that intended because wow = mcdonalds and eso = burger king and eso is the better game? i must know

angrylizard · August 2019

valkyrie93 wrote: »

JusticeForJilarga wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

On that note, can all the WoW fanboys leave already. No one cares about you or your opinion. If you like WoW so much better then by all means pop on over there and don't let the door hit you on the way out. The rest of us could not care less if we tried except you all insist on clogging up the forum with irrelevant posts.

This one agrees. It's like sitting around at Burger King saying that their latest burger was bland and that Mcdonald's has way better burgers. Burgers that Burger King could only dream of making but despite saying that never actually leaves to go to Mcdonalds. Just staying there, bothering people trying to enjoy their Burger King Burger.

are you joking, burger king is way better than mcdonalds. or was that intended because wow = mcdonalds and eso = burger king and eso is the better game? i must know

I prefer KFC.

JusticeForJilarga · August 2019

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

IT IS NOT
To advertise WoW, other MMO's, or promote any "fanboyism" in any way, but as a public comparison in the MMO category

To suggest that players from WoW should all migrate to ESO or vice-versa, or one game is "better" than the other. That is subjective and pointless.

To trigger and enrage anyone here on the forums. Please try to see the logic behind the post.

Whenever you do a comparison like this its bound to bring out people from both sides. It's foolish to think that a conversation like this will not. While this one would always welcome improvements (Performance issues aside) this one thinks the game is in a good place.

This one is just tired of people acting like they are handcuffed to a computer that only has ESO installed. This one cares little for WOW or if people want to play it as long as it does not interrupt this one enjoying these forums.