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Zenimax/ZOS, we have to talk about the $15/month subscription...(Letter to the Developers)
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You have unrealistic views on the value of $15. That’s less that a movie ticket. That’s less than lunch. That’s less than a monthly train pass. Less than the cost of parking at a major sporting event. Less than 2 beers at that same sporting event. I could go on and on about things that cost more than $15 and give me far less value and enjoyment for a month than ESO+ does.
You could also analyse those other things in terms of how much they've gone up by over the last 20 years, whereas game subscriptions have stayed the same - some have actually reduced in that period through the introduction of multi-month subscription discounts which weren't common 20 years ago, if they existed at all.3 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you don't think it's worth it, don't subscribe. It's as simple as that. That's what I've been doing and if everyone stops subbing, then ZOS will see the error of their ways on their own. Money is the only language they understand.
Besides, it's 100% optional and if someone sees WoW's subscription vs ESO then four months of WoW vs a forever of ESO, then I know which MMO I'd pick.
This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭maddiniiLuna wrote: »Double Transmute Crystals is a lie. If i get 1 Crystal with eso+, then it's a lie. I mean it's literally impossible to have double the amount of crystals and the result is 1. It should be 0 (which would be really messed up) or at least 2.
You get double storage of trans mute crystals, not double drops, so you misunderstand the perk here. ESO+ can have 200 in storage instead of 100Double housing space is also a lie, because some of the small houses have sufficient space for everything you need. On the big houses however they make the available objects that small, that you can not decorate a full house without eso+. It's a scam and a trick to make you spend more money. The very big houses for example have 200 spaces available. I mean you put some lights, dishes and you're easily at 50 - 100 depends on the details. Put some plants, pots etc and you're at 150. It just doesn't happen.
Your opinion.
I've put the full amount allowed in a small house and it definitely was nicer than the lower amount.
Get your numbers straight. The largest houses have 350 slots without ESO+, 700 with ESO+. Yes the largest houses can be hard to full furnish with 700 but it's not that bad.costume dying is a lie, because you can simply use the table to change appearance and die the armor in the color you want and all costumes exist as set so.
So the emperor costume is available as a set? The pirate costumes? The wedding dress? No , not all costumes are available as a set. In fact most are not.unlimited crafting material space - This is a lie. There is hard limits on how much you can have. I don't know the exact stack size, but one time i couldn't farm any more metal because the thing was full.
I have over 78,000 alkahest and have not found the limit of that yet. So don't know what your problem was but 78,000 us a pretty big number of mats. How much do you really need?
As for the OP. That is all your opinion.
I feel ESO+ is well worth the price.
I have never and will never play WoW and yes I do mean NEVER. I have no interest in it whatsoever.
ESO's world is large and beautiful IMO.
How can you run through Auridon with all the flowering trees and say it's just browns and greys?! You might want to check the settings on your monitor.
We do not need flying pink mounts. Go back to WoW if you want that.
Eso is not WoW and thank God it never will be
Edited by Katahdin on August 26, 2019 2:53PMBeta tester November 20137 -
highkingnm✭✭✭✭The Crowns alone are almost worth it. Added furnishing space (which increases server and performance load when in instance), added inventory space, craft bag, all DLC access? That’s nice too.1 -
Kagukan✭✭✭✭✭
✭Something is worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. For me, ESO+ is worth the cost.3 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They can start with
unlimited bank space or like 5x bank.
space, bumping up that low exp buff to like 25%,.
Free crate a week though im sure we'll get the modified zero apex drop rate versions.
Maybe a monthly bi weekly coupon for like 25% off a crown item mount, pet, companion.
An actually crown item discount on all crown items for being a subscriber.
A crown to gold exchange like a trade house that lets us post our crowns for x amount per gold and other players can buy it eliminates the shady crown to gold gifting scams.
Maybe a eso plus exclusive mount that only works when subscription active.
This one is a real winner here improve on the eso plus dye costumes and allow us to use costumes we buy as broken up peices for the outfit system have like an extra tab that just has eso plus costumes parts for this use. Sure it sucks for those who bought the costume but would make a great sub incentive.
Eso plus dyes unlocks a few sets of dyes while subbed that are normally in the seasonal color dye stamps. Again sucks to monetize that but our current benefits suck.
Overall would add to the appeal since 2 dlcs a year 90% of the popul can't enjoy anyway due to dungeons being to hard.1 -
Slimebrow✭✭✭They don't care. Why would they change their source of income when people still buy into it. It's a business and for them profits mean everything not the game or their consumers. Their past and present practices prove this. LOL3 -
Rake✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HappyLittleTree wrote: »- Monthly crowns
- eso plus deals
- free stuff (even if they are just statuettes)
- extra exp
- faster research
- unlimited crafting material space
- extra bank space
- costume dying
- double housing space
- double transmutation crystals
- access to all dlc (not chapter)
It's just not worth it ZENIMAX get your S+*§ together (!)
Bit more space would be even better0 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pretty sure most are here BECAUSE it's not WoW.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway8 -
nafensoriel wrote: »Subscriptions have failed for every model beyond blizzards.. and their model only works due to addiction mechanics and being the first mega MMO on the block.
Things change for a reason.
Also, ESO+ is not a subscription. Why do people never understand this?
ESO+ is a subscription. Sure it's not mandatory to play the game and is optional. But it's still a subscription?Leader Of The Children Of Razum Dar Guild (Khajiit Guild) on All 6 MegaServers
Khajiit Quote Of The Day.
"These useless senche could only kill a rat if they fell upon it. From a great height."1 -
Trinity_Is_My_Name✭✭✭✭✭
✭What we really need is to double the Subscription cost and make it mandatory to have a Subscription to post anything in the Forum.
Now that would stop a lot of crap being posted. Woooo!8 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GQManOfTheYear wrote: »Here's the TL;DR version: Zenimax/ZOS, your subscription is not worth $15/month. It can be, but it's not..
Then do not pay it. It really is that simple.
1GQManOfTheYear wrote: »World of Warcraft charges $15/month to play. In a few days, a lot of people will resubscribe for the Classic version. Truthfully, their subscription is worth its price. ESO's isn't.
This says it all. Most of us think WoW is not worth the subscription rate. Most of us pretty much think WoW is antiquated garbage. That is why we play a newer design of a game.
So in the end, we all make our choices and have different interests. So at the end of the day Zos has little concern about threads like this one.4 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭even with eso's many flaws its still lightyears better than wow ever was.
no rose colored glasses here.
only a few years left to go now....
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard7 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They don't care. Why would they change their source of income when people still buy into it. It's a business and for them profits mean everything not the game or their consumers. Their past and present practices prove this. LOL
Yup.
ZOS 45m/ annual revenue
Zenimax Media 1/2bil annual revenueEdited by Wolfpaw on August 26, 2019 2:51PM0 -
Tai-Chi✭✭✭✭
I have said before - in other similar threads. ESO+, at around 22.5 pence a day, is worth it for a game I play every day and enjoy very much.
I shudder at the thought of ESO going down the same path as WoW.
WoW would have to offer me a "lorra, lorra" money to play their game, not the other way around. Even if they did, I would probably turn the offer down because my sanity and general well being is of paramount importance to me.
PC - EU (Main) & PC - NA3 -
Loralai_907✭✭✭✭✭
✭The ESO+ benefits aren't actually bad. There are times that I start thinking that it needs to be looked at again because it doesn't quite seem worth it. But when that happens I've typically focused on maybe 3 of the benefits and forgotten the rest. Like oh yeah, I can dye costumes. Or oh yeah I can place more stuff in houses. Things I don't look at often. The one thing I will say is when they started talking about the loyalty rewards or whatever they are calling them, little statues were not what I imagined. I mean, its nice. But I was thinking about the old days, just with updated things. 3mo, 6mo, 9mo, 12mo. And so on. Getting COOLER over time lol.
The ESO+ subscription has never been something I considered leaving over. I have been pretty dedicated to ESO since beta. Why am I branching out to other games and actively looking for something new in the future? Performance. Its a problem. Its been a problem. I'm half willing to see how it goes, but I think that their time line better actually do something or I can see there being a shift. ESO isn't a bad game, its great and if it could just work right would be epic and people would continue to talk it up and bring in new players. Its just been a really long conversation about hey, things don't work right with not a whole lot of follow through on their end to make it better. Soooo, obviously, people are like oh yeah? This time things are going to get better huh? Suuuuure. (And all of this doesn't mean I'm leaving, just branching out, spending less, etc)PC-NA - formerly, mommadani907Guild: Weeping Angels - Co-GMTwitter: @ Loralai_907 several Alt accounts....CP 1700+Active characters:Fauna Rosewood ( Bosmer Stam DK - Master Crafter/AD)///Loralai Darknova (Drunken Zombie Bosmer Stam Sorc - PvP/AD)Lilith Darknova ( Dunmer Mag DK - Master Crafter - PvP/AD)///and roughly 1billion alts1 -
iris56✭✭✭I mean, Wow you can't play without the subscription. The fact that you can with ESO is actually pretty cool... even if the lack of craft bag would make me cave in 10 min.1
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Asha_11_ESO✭✭✭Are you forgetting that you HAVE to sub to WoW to even play it at all? (Trial accounts don't really count, seeing as you can't level past 20).
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max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Should be $20 a month mandatory subscription imho.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom2 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭0 -
While this one would never turn down more value for the subscription. This one thinks the subscription is a bargain already.Leader Of The Children Of Razum Dar Guild (Khajiit Guild) on All 6 MegaServers
Khajiit Quote Of The Day.
"These useless senche could only kill a rat if they fell upon it. From a great height."2 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Imagine if everything stayed the same price from 10 years ago. 🙄 $15 a month isn’t reality when it comes to paying American workers. Could shareholders make less profit in order to pay people properly? Yes. Absolutely. AND it’s also true that costs rise. $15 a month OPTIONAL is why we have cash grabbing carp every time we turn around. It’s not enough. I bet you go to brick and mortar stores and expect them to match the eBay price of $1.34 for something that’s $19.99.
#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭An optional $15/month sub in ESO isn't worth it, but paying $15/month just to play a 15 year-old game is?
WoW is arguably the biggest scam in gaming at the moment.Edited by MLGProPlayer on August 26, 2019 5:25PM6 -
static_recharge✭✭✭✭So all of the people that enjoy housing and furniture aren't valid players? People have different ways to play the game. Don't lump us all together.1 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Imagine if everything stayed the same price from 10 years ago. 🙄 $15 a month isn’t reality when it comes to paying American workers. Could shareholders make less profit in order to pay people properly? Yes. Absolutely. AND it’s also true that costs rise. $15 a month OPTIONAL is why we have cash grabbing carp every time we turn around. It’s not enough. I bet you go to brick and mortar stores and expect them to match the eBay price of $1.34 for something that’s $19.99.
I'm not going to pay to be a beta tester, never will.Edited by Wolfpaw on August 26, 2019 6:15PM2 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GQManOfTheYear wrote: »A lot of you will not like what I'm about to say and that's fine, we can disagree.
Here's the TL;DR version: Zenimax/ZOS, your subscription is not worth $15/month. It can be, but it's not..
World of Warcraft charges $15/month to play. In a few days, a lot of people will resubscribe for the Classic version. Truthfully, their subscription is worth its price. ESO's isn't. People will get offended and triggered and enraged about what I'm saying, but we all like this game (and the community for the most part) and want it to continue increasing and being healthy. You don't spend hundreds of hours on a game that you don't enjoy or want to die.
I can go over each perk and how in sum, currently, they don't amount to the $15/month price tag ($11.67 if you get the 12-month subscription deal).
The fact that inventory space (including bank space and the crafting materials bag) is being advertised as a "perk" is ludicrous.
You've got to make it worthwhile to subscribe, or else, if somebody is looking for an MMORPG or tired of ESO and they see WoW as an option with a $15/month subscription containing a vast, colorful world, massive content, a favored fighting style, more defined and specialized classes, etc., versus an Elder Scrolls Online game that isn't any of those things (minus the massive content), they're going to choose WoW (especially with Classic coming out).
What's my solution? My solution is this:
I would play up the "individualism" aspect ("vanity," also, but then again, in sales, there are no ethics). What does "individualism" mean, and how will it make ESO money? In Stormwind (Alliance's capital), you have people loitering, showing off their unique gear and unique mounts and non-combat pets, etc., some of which can only be obtained from the store. Add to that, something that WoW does that ESO doesn't do well, is play up the fantasy aspect. They have mounts like the "Winged Guardian" and "Celestial Steed." They stretch the boundaries of the world. ESO on the other hand, has 10 different kinds of real-life horses (they're still horses). And yes, there are fantastical mounts in ESO, that's the kind of content that should continue to be made.
In anticipation of drafting this post, I asked people that played the game what they would like to be added to ESO Plus, and while they gave me mixed answers, some of the best included a free crate each week. One expressed that collectible statues was not adequate (and I 100% agree-who even thought that was a gift worth giving?). It's not hard or difficult to come up with even more ideas about how to make ESO Plus worthwhile. I put all of this together as a hobby (and, obviously, because I want to see the game grow). Put surveys out and see how you can make ESO Plus more favorable to players.
Finally, I don't know how financially lucrative furniture and houses are for the company, but if they're not a consequential part of the profits, then get rid of them. Gear/weapons, skins ("motifs"), mounts, costumes, etc. These are the content that people prefer and that the development team should focus their efforts, resources and time on.
I can see the point that inventory and crafting should be part of the base game, but some MMORPG’s don’t even have a non-sub option so having one at all, even with handicaps is a step up. SWTOR had more restrictions in F2P and other things that you’d always be paying for (dyes and no free inventory for materials, for instance). GW2 is non-sub and the most generous F2P I’ve seen and might be more to your taste based on many of your suggestions: no shared skills between classes (weapons work different for each class), F2P, more fanciful (I see Elder Scrolls as being in more the classic fantasy genre), variety of mounts and no housing.
For me, ESO+ is worth it. I like the game and view sub as the cost to play it fully. The only thing that put me off at first was the cost of the base game on top of the sub — I feel like the base game (with none of the additional chapters) should be completely F2P on some level at least to try before buying, but since I wound up enjoying the game, I don’t regret spending the money.
As to some of your points more specifically:
1) I like that ESO keeps things within lore and actually would prefer fewer atronarchs and other strange glowy characters running about and there should be major drawbacks to vampirism IMHO. I don’t want every fantasy thing conceived in this game, but that’s not to say it would be out of place in every game. As I mentioned, there is more of that in GW2 and you might give that game a try — the mounts are quite fun!
2) I much prefer ESO’s aesthetic over WOW’s cartoonish-ness. Actually, aesthetics of both my character and the world are large factors in what games I’ll play. Both ESO and GW2 have beautiful worlds.
3) Class identify. I can see that, but not being constrained by class choice is one of the things that has always differentiated Elder Scrolls. From my perspective, I don’t mind if you can do everything as any class, so long as there is great enough variety of options so that my alts can be quite different in abilities and play style if I want them to be.
4) I don’t know why you’re saying that housing should be eliminated when it’s something that many people enjoy and is totally optional. It’s one of the things I love in ESO and hope they continue to expand and improve it. GW2 does not currently have it, as I mentioned, although people are always asking for that and fishing on the GW2 forums.
edited for typosEdited by Araneae6537 on August 26, 2019 11:15PM3 -
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mikemacon✭✭✭✭✭Nah fam.
The $15 sub is (1) entirely optional and (2) worth it from where I sit.
As others have mentioned above, sounds like you really want ESO to be Warcraft.
The obvious solution is to embrace that and play Warcraft. It’s a great game in and of itself, there is nothing wrong with playing it. Knock yourself out.
ESO will however remain ESO.
Win/win.Edited by mikemacon on August 26, 2019 5:35PM4
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IUB-wjXUREE