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Zenimax/ZOS, we have to talk about the $15/month subscription...(Letter to the Developers)
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anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GQManOfTheYear wrote: »Exactly. ZOS created a problem by constricting inventory space and then addressed the problem by providing an option for people to pay money.
Yes, that's correct. But there's nothing wrong with that.
In theory, we could all land in Tamriel with all-ready-characters, all skills & crafts maxed out, all zones accessible, all stories written in one book, etc. There could also be no mobs at all.
Problem would be that we would have nothing to do there gamewise.
Game designers create artificial hurdles and limitations : inventory space, skill points, cooldown timers, story milestones, etc. . Some of those obstacles are made for creating gameplay : character & combat progression, storytelling, challenges to be overcome, etc. Some of those obstacles are created for player retention and incentives to login daily, and finally, some of those obstacles are created in order to make us pay hard cash. I think it's okay since I don't expect devs to provide me all this entertainment for free. And I think they're being fair (even if their strategy of increasing the number of items to farm and collect while the inventory space remained untouched, thus forcing us into ESO+ and its craftbag, was kinda obvious... )
I agree with your analogy to a point : yes, the "hospital" creates its own diseases in order to make its added value noticeable and worthwhile. But it doesn't hunt you down in the streets with their "diseases" and you're free to leave the hospital any time.
As I already said : their commercial strategy is a huge success. Don't try and tell them how to make it better, especially since, basically, you just want stuff tailored to your own taste, and possibly for free. But you're free to quit subbing and/or to quit playing if you have not enough fun for your money, or if you think the artificial tricks used to make us sub are too questionable.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on August 26, 2019 9:46AM4 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »As I already said : their commercial strategy is a huge success
You said it, but provided no proof at all.
Wonder why?
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.0 -
WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭I'm pretty sure gaming is like a drug addiction now. Your all losing your minds indefenitly 😂3 -
Mitrenga✭✭✭✭✭On top of all that, ZoS should take a look at the regional pricing as well.
Some of us paying 3 times more than Steam's regional pricing for ESO sub plans.
This is discouraging. Personally, I'm not subbing because of this fact.Edited by Mitrenga on August 26, 2019 9:59AM2 -
GQManOfTheYear✭✭✭
We live in an age where people want to be heard, regardless of whether or not their contrarian point of view is legitimate and/or genuine. They'll play devil's advocate just to feel like they're a part of something and so they won't feel lonely. That's why after reading his rant, I ignored him and didn't respond.Edited by GQManOfTheYear on August 26, 2019 10:07AM1 -
WhisperLFE✭✭✭The last thing I want is for ESO to turn into WoW. I stopped playing WoW for a reason.
Compared to the various MMOs I've played over the years, ESO's monthly sub benefits are solid.Edited by WhisperLFE on August 26, 2019 10:09AM11 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Thriving and healthy? Well my circle of active ingame "friends" has diminished from over 200 just before Morrowind to just me now. I find it hard to think that level of player loss is anything even remotely on the same planet as "thriving and healthy".
So your circle of "200 active game friends" is a reliable sample of the overall player population ? You think a group of players quitting after 2.5 years is a reliable indicator of the overall game population ? You don't think people quitting after over 2 years is something just normal ? Do "new players" not matter in the overall game population's estimation ? If you had a look at new players, socialized with them and had an overall open mind about them, your friend's list would still be full and overbooked.
So yes, the game's thriving and healthy.Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Solid content drops? Every content drop creates more problems than it fixes and that ever increasing mountain of problems is now at times making the game unplayable for a significant number of players.
Again, what do you call " a significant number of players " ? You close circle of friends ? Your particular situation ? I don't deny the performance issues (and I play on PC/EU !), but even on PC/EU, people can play the new dungeons, quest in Elsweyr, hunt dragons and whatnot, with no problems whatsoever, just like they did with Summerset, Murkmire, and will do with the Dragonhold DLC. This is big, wide, carefully crafted content which many, many people enjoy without any problem whatsoever.Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Commercial side? Well, we don't know, can't even guess, because ZoS isn't a publicly listed company.
Well, you don't need a balance sheet to know. No MMO that doesn't thrive commercially survives FIVE YEARS (see WildStar, etc.) . And simply look around you : players everywhere, even in base-game zones. It's nearly impossible to clear up a non-instanced delve without stumbling upon many other players, and it's nearly impossible to grab a skyshard on your own.
So yes, it's a huge success on the commercial side - whether you think it's deserved or not.
By the way, I wonder what you're still doing here and playing the game, considering you keep bashing it harshly over and over...
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A_Silverius✭✭✭✭✭I agree with you that currently with our crap servers and the changes to Bosmer stealth (whotf uses stealth detection?) the monthly subscription isn't worth it. But what makes it worth it is its monthly crowns and free dlc, although it can be said that the quality of content dlc seems to be dropping as they are mostly dungeon dlcs now. Long gone are the days of Orsinium, Gold Coast and Hews Bane.All over Tamriel, theres a sudden spike in Bosmers getting caught for their crimes. A sad day indeed... #FightForYourRite Give Bosmers back our stealth!1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »You said it, but provided no proof at all.
Wonder why?
I've provided plenty enough proof - which you choose to ignore. That's your problem, not mine :-) And even less ZOS'.
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maboleth✭✭✭✭✭
✭"Vast, colorful world"? Like do you guys even have eyes or fair judgement anymore? WoW is like watching oblivion and pokemon mixed together. In 2019.
I cannot believe anyone is actually liking the aesthetics of that game. In your anti-eso blindness you started liking stuff that were never even nice to begin with.
Naive, blotchy and cartoonish (in a bad way). Always been. Comparing immersive, rich and highly detailed world of ESO and WoW is like... well, they cannot be compared. And it's the first thing I notice when I fire the game - I don't care for anything else if I'm running a blob pretending s/he is some super mage in a rich fantasy world full of the same blotchy cartoonish creatures. And paying a monthly subscription for that.
WoW Classic is a simple lesson how overhyping today works - praising tired old software, stripping away the upgrades and branding it as a shiny new downgrade "upgrade". People will swallow anything nowadays, just make it shiny. But as soon as "novelty" (or should I say oldelty) and nostalgia wears off, it will be boring as hell.13 -
GQManOfTheYear✭✭✭"Vast, colorful world"? Like do you guys even have eyes or fair judgement anymore? WoW is like watching oblivion and pokemon mixed together. In 2019.
I cannot believe anyone is actually liking the aesthetics of that game. In your anti-eso blindness you started liking stuff that were never even nice to begin with.
Naive, blotchy and cartoonish (in a bad way). Always been. Comparing immersive, rich and highly detailed world of ESO and WoW is like... well, they cannot be compared. And it's the first thing I notice when I fire the game - I don't care for anything else if I'm running a blob pretending s/he is some super mage in a rich fantasy world full of the same blotchy cartoonish creatures. And paying a monthly subscription for that.
WoW Classic is a simple lesson how overhyping today works - praising tired old software, stripping away the upgrades and branding it as a shiny new downgrade "upgrade". People will swallow anything nowadays, just make it shiny. But as soon as "novelty" (or should I say oldelty) and nostalgia wears off, it will be boring as hell.
Two things you said that I agree with. 1) Classic is overhyped and a novelty, and 2) ESO, for as much as the graphical world doesn't mean that much to me (so long as it's not annoyingly or uncomfortably bad), impressed me more than I thought it would. It's a Bethesda property, so I knew it was going to be expansive, but I didn't know it was going to be as pretty as it was. That said, I still favor a colorful cartoonish world over sullen greys and browns. We get way too many of these games now using these same color palates in an attempt to push the "realistic" or "realism" narratives. It's a tired concept.0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Thriving and healthy? Well my circle of active ingame "friends" has diminished from over 200 just before Morrowind to just me now. I find it hard to think that level of player loss is anything even remotely on the same planet as "thriving and healthy".
So your circle of "200 active game friends" is a reliable sample of the overall player population ? You think a group of players quitting after 2.5 years is a reliable indicator of the overall game population ? You don't think people quitting after over 2 years is something just normal ? Do "new players" not matter in the overall game population's estimation ? If you had a look at new players, socialized with them and had an overall open mind about them, your friend's list would still be full and overbooked.
So yes, the game's thriving and healthy.Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Solid content drops? Every content drop creates more problems than it fixes and that ever increasing mountain of problems is now at times making the game unplayable for a significant number of players.
Again, what do you call " a significant number of players " ? You close circle of friends ? Your particular situation ? I don't deny the performance issues (and I play on PC/EU !), but even on PC/EU, people can play the new dungeons, quest in Elsweyr, hunt dragons and whatnot, with no problems whatsoever, just like they did with Summerset, Murkmire, and will do with the Dragonhold DLC. This is big, wide, carefully crafted content which many, many people enjoy without any problem whatsoever.Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Commercial side? Well, we don't know, can't even guess, because ZoS isn't a publicly listed company.
Well, you don't need a balance sheet to know. No MMO that doesn't thrive commercially survives FIVE YEARS (see WildStar, etc.) . And simply look around you : players everywhere, even in base-game zones. It's nearly impossible to clear up a non-instanced delve without stumbling upon many other players, and it's nearly impossible to grab a skyshard on your own.
So yes, it's a huge success on the commercial side - whether you think it's deserved or not.
By the way, I wonder what you're still doing here and playing the game, considering you keep bashing it harshly over and over...
All good points. You could also have mentioned the steady year-on-year increase in the reported Steam figures, as well as the overall figures reported by ZOS - although doubtless the haters will say they don't believe them, and in that respect you can't win really.
Except that you can, in one respect. Some players spend their time knocking the game and disagreeing with anyone who dares to describe it as a decent game, and yet they keep returning to it with monotonous regularity - which in my book rather disproves their total criticism of it!4 -
Delfelnias✭✭✭HappyLittleTree wrote: »
- eso plus deals
Why would you need deals for ingame store, if you already pay? At least in WoW (i know, they also have store), you can get lot of pets, mounts, toys just by playing the game (farming). How many mounts can you get in ESO? 4 horses, 1 indrik per season and one mount for a very hard achievement. I just want more ways to get mounts, like drops from killing NPCs. Imagine if you could get a camel from Hew's bane stables for gold, or by killing monsters.0 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭GQManOfTheYear wrote: »A lot of you will not like what I'm about to say and that's fine, we can disagree.
Here's the TL;DR version: Zenimax/ZOS, your subscription is not worth $15/month. It can be, but it's not..
World of Warcraft charges $15/month to play. In a few days, a lot of people will resubscribe for the Classic version. Truthfully, their subscription is worth its price. ESO's isn't. People will get offended and triggered and enraged about what I'm saying, but we all like this game (and the community for the most part) and want it to continue increasing and being healthy. You don't spend hundreds of hours on a game that you don't enjoy or want to die.
I can go over each perk and how in sum, currently, they don't amount to the $15/month price tag ($11.67 if you get the 12-month subscription deal).
The fact that inventory space (including bank space and the crafting materials bag) is being advertised as a "perk" is ludicrous.
You've got to make it worthwhile to subscribe, or else, if somebody is looking for an MMORPG or tired of ESO and they see WoW as an option with a $15/month subscription containing a vast, colorful world, massive content, a favored fighting style, more defined and specialized classes, etc., versus an Elder Scrolls Online game that isn't any of those things (minus the massive content), they're going to choose WoW (especially with Classic coming out).
What's my solution? My solution is this:
I would play up the "individualism" aspect ("vanity," also, but then again, in sales, there are no ethics). What does "individualism" mean, and how will it make ESO money? In Stormwind (Alliance's capital), you have people loitering, showing off their unique gear and unique mounts and non-combat pets, etc., some of which can only be obtained from the store. Add to that, something that WoW does that ESO doesn't do well, is play up the fantasy aspect. They have mounts like the "Winged Guardian" and "Celestial Steed." They stretch the boundaries of the world. ESO on the other hand, has 10 different kinds of real-life horses (they're still horses). And yes, there are fantastical mounts in ESO, that's the kind of content that should continue to be made.
In anticipation of drafting this post, I asked people that played the game what they would like to be added to ESO Plus, and while they gave me mixed answers, some of the best included a free crate each week. One expressed that collectible statues was not adequate (and I 100% agree-who even thought that was a gift worth giving?). It's not hard or difficult to come up with even more ideas about how to make ESO Plus worthwhile. I put all of this together as a hobby (and, obviously, because I want to see the game grow). Put surveys out and see how you can make ESO Plus more favorable to players.
Finally, I don't know how financially lucrative furniture and houses are for the company, but if they're not a consequential part of the profits, then get rid of them. Gear/weapons, skins ("motifs"), mounts, costumes, etc. These are the content that people prefer and that the development team should focus their efforts, resources and time on.
Oh man...
Just pay your 15$ so I can keep playing for free.
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Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The subscription isn’t worth it because the game runs terribly — not because the subscription perks aren’t worth it. I happily subscribed for three years, but ZOS won’t get another cent from me until they fix the atrocious performance issues that have come to a head over the past few months.6 -
Gnome_Saiyan✭✭✭Faulty comparison. WoW requires a subscription. ESO does not. If Blizzard were to offer a higher tier price for some monthly goodies that a smaller portion of the player base would pay for, then you may have an argument for dropping ESO+ in favor of WoW.
The way you lay out your pitch (for make no mistake, that is all the OP is, a pitch for Classic WoW) ignores the fact that for so and so dollars a month, one can have both ESO and WoW.Roll your Self before you Role yourself1 -
Ogou✭✭✭✭✭GQManOfTheYear wrote: »I can go over each perk and how in sum, currently, they don't amount to the $15/month price tag ($11.67 if you get the 12-month subscription deal).
Why didn't you?2 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭You may not think it is worth it. But the price of a product is only worth as much as it's purchaser will pay for it. Basic economics. And I have a feeling ZOS are in a better position to price their products to match what they will profit the most from. It's about hitting the sweet spot where they'll earn the most. Too high or too low will cause them to lose profit.2 -
maddiniiLuna✭✭✭✭To be fair...
The Crown Crates most of the time look pretty meh.. It's very rare to get some nice looking stuff in the crates. Also the ESO+ Deals is a new thing, but advertises only stuff that i just never use, so i don't bother looking at it anymore.
Double Transmute Crystals is a lie. If i get 1 Crystal with eso+, then it's a lie. I mean it's literally impossible to have double the amount of crystals and the result is 1. It should be 0 (which would be really messed up) or at least 2.
Double housing space is also a lie, because some of the small houses have sufficient space for everything you need. On the big houses however they make the available objects that small, that you can not decorate a full house without eso+. It's a scam and a trick to make you spend more money. The very big houses for example have 200 spaces available. I mean you put some lights, dishes and you're easily at 50 - 100 depends on the details. Put some plants, pots etc and you're at 150. It just doesn't happen.
costume dying is a lie, because you can simply use the table to change appearance and die the armor in the color you want and all costumes exist as set so.
extra bank space - Yeah okay this one is nice. Extra inventory space also.
unlimited crafting material space - This is a lie. There is hard limits on how much you can have. I don't know the exact stack size, but one time i couldn't farm any more metal because the thing was full.
extra exp - This is a lie. In fact i'm not even sure if it's part of eso plus. Regardless - You do 1 cp per day if you're just having fun. While leveling or grinding of course you'll do a few more, but there is also recipes that can give you a bonus if you really want to be hard grinding. It's utterly useless.
free stuff - To be honest. The statuette did actually look nice. I liked that one and i was pleased, that it was free.
Monthly crowns - Well this is nice, but it's also a big scam. I mean they give you some currency to encourage you to check out the store, but the stuff you want will be so expensive, that'll end up buying. You are less likely to check the store if you know you have no currency available. Same principle as with shopping. You don't go shopping if you have no money, right?2 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You have unrealistic views on the value of $15. That’s less that a movie ticket. That’s less than lunch. That’s less than a monthly train pass. Less than the cost of parking at a major sporting event. Less than 2 beers at that same sporting event. I could go on and on about things that cost more than $15 and give me far less value and enjoyment for a month than ESO+ does.Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche9 -
Varkal2112✭✭✭This is your opinion. In my opinion, paying 15$ for an inferior MMO like WoW is the ridiculous thing. Cartoonish graphcis on an outdated engine, with lore that doesn't hold a candle to the ES lore. ZOS gives you access to all DLCs, the craft bag, and your money's worth in crowns. Your argument is basically "I like wow more, give me more stuff so i play this game and not wow". Now if you were to argue about the craft bag, I'd say there's an argument to be had. Saying "wow is better, so eso should be cheaper" is purely subjective8
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nafensoriel✭✭✭✭✭Subscriptions have failed for every model beyond blizzards.. and their model only works due to addiction mechanics and being the first mega MMO on the block.
Things change for a reason.
Also, ESO+ is not a subscription. Why do people never understand this?1 -
ScarletThorn✭✭I'm a sub,
Why,
I craft and the storage is really helpful
Double bank space
Get all the dlc included
Get the crowns which I use for character unlocks and other utilities
also I play the game and have a magicka and stamina of every class JIC my flavour of the month changes.
Do I think it's worth for me yes because I use it but if you don't craft and want to pay for the all the dlc's with crowns that's your choice.
Also I subbed for a year so I got it cheaper1 -
Zer0_CooL✭✭✭✭✭
✭With the curent (actually since i don't even remember when) performance that this game delivers, it's actually worth 0$. Quit or stop complaining.3 -
Zer0_CooL✭✭✭✭✭
✭nafensoriel wrote: ».. and their model only works due to addiction mechanics ...
Like there's no such mechanics in ESO.1 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭- Monthly crowns
- same reskin garbage & housing
- eso plus deals
- lol
- free stuff (even if they are just statuettes)
- lol
- extra exp
- max level
- faster research
- master crafter
- unlimited crafting material space
- gold mats don't take much room
- extra bank space
- mules if I need
- costume dying
- don't use costumes
- double housing space
- what am I Martha Stewart?
- double transmutation crystals
- no need, use when I have 50
- access to all dlc (not chapter)
- meh I pvp
I agree w/op...atleast should be f2p on console...the f2p games perform better that's for sure.
Sub is geared for the sims/housing, rp, cs, pve, & new players imo.Edited by Wolfpaw on August 26, 2019 1:11PM1 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭nafensoriel wrote: »Subscriptions have failed for every model beyond blizzards.. and their model only works due to addiction mechanics and being the first mega MMO on the block.
Things change for a reason.
Also, ESO+ is not a subscription. Why do people never understand this?
ESO+ is a membership that you pay for, isn't that what a subscription is? When you pay to get some time limited access to exclusive resources?0
