Zenimax/ZOS, we have to talk about the $15/month subscription...(Letter to the Developers)

GQManOfTheYear · August 2019

A lot of you will not like what I'm about to say and that's fine, we can disagree.

Here's the TL;DR version: Zenimax/ZOS, your subscription is not worth $15/month. It can be, but it's not..

World of Warcraft charges $15/month to play. In a few days, a lot of people will resubscribe for the Classic version. Truthfully, their subscription is worth its price. ESO's isn't. People will get offended and triggered and enraged about what I'm saying, but we all like this game (and the community for the most part) and want it to continue increasing and being healthy. You don't spend hundreds of hours on a game that you don't enjoy or want to die.

I can go over each perk and how in sum, currently, they don't amount to the $15/month price tag ($11.67 if you get the 12-month subscription deal).

The fact that inventory space (including bank space and the crafting materials bag) is being advertised as a "perk" is ludicrous.

You've got to make it worthwhile to subscribe, or else, if somebody is looking for an MMORPG or tired of ESO and they see WoW as an option with a $15/month subscription containing a vast, colorful world, massive content, a favored fighting style, more defined and specialized classes, etc., versus an Elder Scrolls Online game that isn't any of those things (minus the massive content), they're going to choose WoW (especially with Classic coming out).

What's my solution? My solution is this:

I would play up the "individualism" aspect ("vanity," also, but then again, in sales, there are no ethics). What does "individualism" mean, and how will it make ESO money? In Stormwind (Alliance's capital), you have people loitering, showing off their unique gear and unique mounts and non-combat pets, etc., some of which can only be obtained from the store. Add to that, something that WoW does that ESO doesn't do well, is play up the fantasy aspect. They have mounts like the "Winged Guardian" and "Celestial Steed." They stretch the boundaries of the world. ESO on the other hand, has 10 different kinds of real-life horses (they're still horses). And yes, there are fantastical mounts in ESO, that's the kind of content that should continue to be made.

In anticipation of drafting this post, I asked people that played the game what they would like to be added to ESO Plus, and while they gave me mixed answers, some of the best included a free crate each week. One expressed that collectible statues was not adequate (and I 100% agree-who even thought that was a gift worth giving?). It's not hard or difficult to come up with even more ideas about how to make ESO Plus worthwhile. I put all of this together as a hobby (and, obviously, because I want to see the game grow). Put surveys out and see how you can make ESO Plus more favorable to players.

Finally, I don't know how financially lucrative furniture and houses are for the company, but if they're not a consequential part of the profits, then get rid of them. Gear/weapons, skins ("motifs"), mounts, costumes, etc. These are the content that people prefer and that the development team should focus their efforts, resources and time on.

Streega · August 2019

You forgot to add three words: "in my opinion". Seriously, why don't you go back to WoW...

HappyLittleTree · August 2019

Monthly crowns
eso plus deals
free stuff (even if they are just statuettes)
extra exp
faster research
unlimited crafting material space
extra bank space
costume dying
double housing space
double transmutation crystals
access to all dlc (not chapter)

It's just not worth it ZENIMAX get your S+*§ together (!)

Ackwalan · August 2019

Classic WoW won't be the way people remember it. At best they will get a three month boost to subs, then go back to current levels.

Sturmfaenger · August 2019

Somehow I think that instead of (letter to the developers) there should have been written (joke).

These are the content that people prefer and that the development team should focus their efforts, resources and time on.

Oh my. You wanted to write I and wrote people instead.

ESO has its flaws, that Zenimax should be working on. But they have nothing to do with the monthly subscription. Let them concentrate their efforts on that. And not try to morph eso into an WoW clone.

Jaimeh · August 2019

GQManOfTheYear wrote: »

They stretch the boundaries of the world. ESO on the other hand, has 10 different kinds of real-life horses (they're still horses). And yes, there are fantastical mounts in ESO, that's the kind of content that should continue to be made.

I don't know much about WoW, and although I've seen some of these fantastical mounts (they were indeed beautiful), I like that ESO mounts are not lore-breaking. They are doing a good job with spicing up mounts, and people would be happier with their mount collection, if all the apex designs were included in the store, and not in crates.

GQManOfTheYear wrote: »

In anticipation of drafting this post, I asked people that played the game what they would like to be added to ESO Plus, and while they gave me mixed answers, some of the best included a free crate each week. One expressed that collectible statues was not adequate (and I 100% agree-who even thought that was a gift worth giving?). It's not hard or difficult to come up with even more ideas about how to make ESO Plus worthwhile. I put all of this together as a hobby (and, obviously, because I want to see the game grow). Put surveys out and see how you can make ESO Plus more favorable to players.

I disagree with this, this crown crate model needs to go away already. The craft bag us an attractive enough feature for players, maybe they key is not to offer more, but make it more affordable.

GQManOfTheYear · August 2019

Ackwalan wrote: »

Classic WoW won't be the way people remember it. At best they will get a three month boost to subs, then go back to current levels.

100% Agree. I was critical of it from the start. It's not a long-term solution. It appeases only the base that pushed Blizzard to do it. It does nothing to stop the company's multi-year bleeding of subscribers long-term.

Lady_Scorp72 · August 2019

Speaking for myself, I think ESO+ is worth it and a good value for my money. To touch on the points you bring up:

I hate WoW, so no subscription switch from me
I don't want flying cartoon mounts
I love the housing and furniture in ESO
I have no interest in gear or mounts beyond the types currently available.

The only thing I'll give ya is that I'd like to see is more variety in the freebies as the statuettes are not something I enjoy, but lots of people do like them so it's not a big deal. Also, housing is a huge aspect of ESO, with guilds dedicated to crafting and design. With people shelling out hundreds for the crown exclusive homes, it's safe to assume that it is a huge money maker for ZOS and won't be going away any time soon.

Lastly, your post comes across like a complaint that ESO is not WoW, but I'd be willing to bet a majority of players don't want it to be, me included (hint: that's why I play it).

WeylandLabs · August 2019

Amazing ideas everywhere, too bad it none of it matters. 😂

HappyLittleTree · August 2019

Only thing i agree to is they should add a bit more variety in mounts but not in an exaggerate way.

Keep it simple and lorefriendly is what i say

GQManOfTheYear · August 2019

I disagree with this, this crown crate model needs to go away already. The craft bag us an attractive enough feature for players, maybe they key is not to offer more, but make it more affordable.

I agree with you on the crates. Firstly it's gambling (Europe's rightly cracking down on this, US should do it too), but also the crate model where you buy crates, extract crown gems from unwanted items for a fraction to buy the items you actually want, needs to be discarded.

And I definitely agree with you on the price point of ESO Plus. I was thinking about that too. How much would Zenimax/ZOS price ESO Plus at for me to feel like it's worth while? My price would be $5. At $10, it's not worth it. At $15, it's definitely not worth it.

GQManOfTheYear · August 2019

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

Only thing i agree to is they should add a bit more variety in mounts but not in an exaggerate way.

Keep it simple and lorefriendly is what i say

Honestly, the lore/storytelling is what got me hooked. If ESO didn't have that, I would've left long ago. The fighting element in this game is an insult and affront to RPGs, the lack of distinction and uniqueness in classes, etc., are all big negatives for me.

GQManOfTheYear · August 2019

Lady_Scorp72 wrote: »

With people shelling out hundreds for the crown exclusive homes, it's safe to assume that it is a huge money maker for ZOS and won't be going away any time soon.

You know, and I'm reasonable enough to accept that if it is indeed making the company money and is lucrative for the company and is worth what they're putting into it (resources, time, etc.) then that's something that I, and others who don't like that aspect of the game, should accept.

WildRaptorX · August 2019

Never have and never will play WoW

BomblePants · August 2019

I would have thought GQ man of the year would know better....

I pay £10 per month and I feel it is well worth the tenner.....

alanmatillab16_ESO · August 2019

y'all being trolled by an account that only exists for this thread.

Elaborate and with some effort on behalf of the OP though but

People will get offended and triggered and enraged about what I'm saying

gives it away. That is the reaction he wants.

Parrot1986 · August 2019

Paid the subscription up for the year and works out at less than £9 so very good value for money since I don’t really put much into other games or this game over and above subs.

Wow bringing out classic is not a positive for that game or that subscription, it’s a desperate attempt to keep people who are leaving what the actual game provides in their droves. It will give a short sharp boost in engagement, stem the decline of subs but once 60 is hit people will move on as there’s no long term progression.

Value for money wise eso is pretty nice, inventory is a huge benefit and dlc access are both enough for me to justify it. I do wish we’d get more collectibles in game like in WoW but that’s a base game issue for me and not subs related.

Classes have only really become homegenized the last patch or 2 as class skills got gutted and weapon skills got buffed, the main issue for a while is the new overwhelming “meta” that forces some to feel to go towards that class. Just now it’s stamcro and stamblade has its run for 12+ months. That takes away from the feeling of having diversity however all classes can play all roles and almost all can be very good at them, albeit not bis.

Classes still have a much more unique feel than wow imo. Getting skills every 10-15 levels with generally 1 OP maybe 2 options to chose from is hardly diverse. Add to that gear is pretty much bis for all content a Ret Pally aiming for end game will pretty much be wearing the gear and skills as another ret pally. Whilst eso has its own bis gear you have a lot of situational set ups to play around with which I think wow lacks.

rpa · August 2019

Sub would be worth it if the game and servers worked properly as subscription service should. I might sub anyway but the way crown store is handled not get any loyalty from me.

Too bad. Its the best MMO available as far as I know and I honestly don't feel paying for playing it is a good deal.

ATomiX69 · August 2019

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

Monthly crowns

eso plus deals

free stuff (even if they are just statuettes)

extra exp

faster research

unlimited crafting material space

extra bank space

costume dying

double housing space

double transmutation crystals

access to all dlc (not chapter)

It's just not worth it ZENIMAX get your S+*§ together (!)

Yeah all those features are nice and all, but most people I know, literally only sub for the craft-bag and maybe double bank-space.

Free crowns, meh who cares, you can just buy everything with gold for crowns these days.
ESO+ deals is a stupid point to make, you sub so you can spend even more money on the crown store by ZOS luring you in with an "ESO+ exclusive" offer.
The free stuff you get is stuff that wouldnt sell on the crown store, but they already had the model so they might as well give free handouts.
10% XP, gold, is meh, not worth.
Faster research, once you finish research you dont benefit from it anymore, last trait is always same duration no matter if ESO+ or not, not worth.
Costume dying, yeah most ppl use the outfit system tho, no reason to sub long term, once you dye your costume its dyed, not worth.
Housing space, Im neutral on that one, not really much of a housing guy, but I guess it comes in handy for people who are into that kind of stuff.
Double transmute gems, I got like hundreds of 50-gem geodes which I can open whenever I need a transmute, not worth.
Access to all DLC, if you clump together ~5 mil gold (which you can make in a week if you try a bit) you can literally buy all DLCs via crown for gold, so not really a valid point either for longer term players which dont wanna rely on a sub to access dlc zones/content.

Overall I think sub is really worth it if youre a new player which is just trying the game and wants to experience most of the content in a short period of time, but for me It definitly isnt.
And as a PC-EU player it isnt subject to change anytime soon.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · August 2019

Jaimeh wrote: »

The craft bag us an attractive enough feature for players, maybe they key is not to offer more, but make it more affordable.

The Craft Bag is ONLY an attraction of the ESO+ model because inventory management in ESO has - quite deliberately - been made a total PITA from the start.

Engineering in an inconvenience just so you can benefit from selling a solution to that inconvenience really is NOT a way of praising ZoS.

Better inventory management should have been in the base game.

All The Best

parpin · August 2019

another guy who is threatening non wow clone games, that if they do not follow wow. i will leave for wow classic. the wow classic is interesting mostly for people with nostalgic feeling, exact same story, exact same content/zones/ area/ but with much less quality of life improvement. that is wow classic. do not sound like it is something new or greater than current wow,
eso is doing fine with current business model.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2019

Now let's tell the developers of a 5-year-old, thriving and increasingly healthy MMORPG how to do their job...

Gandrhulf_Harbard · August 2019

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Now let's tell the developers of a 5-year-old, thriving and increasingly healthy MMORPG how to do their job...

So which game are you talking about, because it sure ain't ESO.

All The Best

Huyen · August 2019

GQManOfTheYear wrote: »

A lot of you will not like what I'm about to say and that's fine, we can disagree.

Here's the TL;DR version: Zenimax/ZOS, your subscription is not worth $15/month. It can be, but it's not..

World of Warcraft charges $15/month to play. In a few days, a lot of people will resubscribe for the Classic version. Truthfully, their subscription is worth its price. ESO's isn't. People will get offended and triggered and enraged about what I'm saying, but we all like this game (and the community for the most part) and want it to continue increasing and being healthy. You don't spend hundreds of hours on a game that you don't enjoy or want to die.

I can go over each perk and how in sum, currently, they don't amount to the $15/month price tag ($11.67 if you get the 12-month subscription deal).

The fact that inventory space (including bank space and the crafting materials bag) is being advertised as a "perk" is ludicrous.

You've got to make it worthwhile to subscribe, or else, if somebody is looking for an MMORPG or tired of ESO and they see WoW as an option with a $15/month subscription containing a vast, colorful world, massive content, a favored fighting style, more defined and specialized classes, etc., versus an Elder Scrolls Online game that isn't any of those things (minus the massive content), they're going to choose WoW (especially with Classic coming out).

What's my solution? My solution is this:

I would play up the "individualism" aspect ("vanity," also, but then again, in sales, there are no ethics). What does "individualism" mean, and how will it make ESO money? In Stormwind (Alliance's capital), you have people loitering, showing off their unique gear and unique mounts and non-combat pets, etc., some of which can only be obtained from the store. Add to that, something that WoW does that ESO doesn't do well, is play up the fantasy aspect. They have mounts like the "Winged Guardian" and "Celestial Steed." They stretch the boundaries of the world. ESO on the other hand, has 10 different kinds of real-life horses (they're still horses). And yes, there are fantastical mounts in ESO, that's the kind of content that should continue to be made.

In anticipation of drafting this post, I asked people that played the game what they would like to be added to ESO Plus, and while they gave me mixed answers, some of the best included a free crate each week. One expressed that collectible statues was not adequate (and I 100% agree-who even thought that was a gift worth giving?). It's not hard or difficult to come up with even more ideas about how to make ESO Plus worthwhile. I put all of this together as a hobby (and, obviously, because I want to see the game grow). Put surveys out and see how you can make ESO Plus more favorable to players.

Finally, I don't know how financially lucrative furniture and houses are for the company, but if they're not a consequential part of the profits, then get rid of them. Gear/weapons, skins ("motifs"), mounts, costumes, etc. These are the content that people prefer and that the development team should focus their efforts, resources and time on.

Tbh, I fully agree with you. WoW has it flaws (any game has) but at least stuff gets fixed (not always instantly but still), server downtime in the EU at night, seperate trees for pve and pve, progression system for both pvp and pve, one time buy once every couple of years with extra dlc included, GM's actually helpfull ingame and the list goes on. Sub in ESO shouldnt be optional, but mandatory for a steady income so they can dedicate money to fixing stuff instead of shareholders.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2019

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Now let's tell the developers of a 5-year-old, thriving and increasingly healthy MMORPG how to do their job...

So which game are you talking about, because it sure ain't ESO.

Well, I was talking about ESO, as you may have guessed.
Are you going to argue that ESO isn't 5 years old ?
The "thriving and increasingly healthy" part may be more subjective, I base it on the number of players as felt in the game and the two solid, significant content updates we get EVERY YEAR since 2017 and going. That's a commercial success, no doubt.
Now you may disagree based on the performance issues, but if the number of players remains that high IN SPITE of said technical issues, it shows also that their commercial strategy is excellent.
Since OP's "lesson" is on the commercial aspect, I think it's appropriate to focus on ZOS' performance on the commercial side of things.

Urigall · August 2019

The dogs bark - the caravan moves on.

GQManOfTheYear · August 2019

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

The craft bag us an attractive enough feature for players, maybe they key is not to offer more, but make it more affordable.

The Craft Bag is ONLY an attraction of the ESO+ model because inventory management in ESO has - quite deliberately - been made a total PITA from the start.

Engineering in an inconvenience just so you can benefit from selling a solution to that inconvenience really is NOT a way of praising ZoS.

Better inventory management should have been in the base game.

All The Best

Exactly. ZOS created a problem by constricting inventory space and then addressed the problem by providing an option for people to pay money and here you have subscribers heralding and praising ZOS for it, haha. No wonder there are companies selling bottled water. That's akin to a hospital beating people on the street, providing them with medical care while presenting them with a bill (a hefty one at that) and then having those hospital patients expressing gratitude and celebrating the hospital and its work.

MartiniDaniels · August 2019

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

Monthly crowns - WoW doesn't have crowns

eso plus deals - 98% of WoW's cosmetics are locked behind content, not behind store

free stuff (even if they are just statuettes) - same as previous

extra exp - 10%? don't make me laugh

faster research - there is no time-limited research in WoW

unlimited crafting material space - ok, this thing is amazing in ESO+ and basically main reason to have it

extra bank space - cancel of artificial limitation, "nice"

costume dying - same as previous

double housing space - same as previous

double transmutation crystals - same as previous

access to all dlc (not chapter) - included in WoW

It's just not worth it ZENIMAX get your S+*§ together (!)

I think OP's thought is that if player already pays subscription he should have less artificial limitations attached, like outfit tokens, mount speed, research speed.

So far WoW is times more friendly to customer. I tried it and was amazed at first impression, but i was bored by combat system and amount of grind, so i returned to ESO after several weeks. Still, WoW "Crown store" is most impressive feature. It is empty, I as newbie opened it and simply didn't find anything worth buying.

Browiseth · August 2019

Streega wrote: »

You forgot to add three words: "in my opinion". Seriously, why don't you go back to WoW...

subjectivity is implied @Streega

Gandrhulf_Harbard · August 2019

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Now let's tell the developers of a 5-year-old, thriving and increasingly healthy MMORPG how to do their job...

So which game are you talking about, because it sure ain't ESO.

Well, I was talking about ESO, as you may have guessed.
Are you going to argue that ESO isn't 5 years old ?
The "thriving and increasingly healthy" part may be more subjective, I base it on the number of players as felt in the game and the two solid, significant content updates we get EVERY YEAR since 2017 and going. That's a commercial success, no doubt.
Now you may disagree based on the performance issues, but if the number of players remains that high IN SPITE of said technical issues, it shows also that their commercial strategy is excellent.
Since OP's "lesson" is on the commercial aspect, I think it's appropriate to focus on ZOS' performance on the commercial side of things.

OK. Yes its 5 years old.

Thriving and healthy? Well my circle of active ingame "friends" has diminished from over 200 just before Morrowind to just me now. I find it hard to think that level of player loss is anything even remotely on the same planet as "thriving and healthy".

Solid content drops? Every content drop creates more problems than it fixes and that ever increasing mountain of problems is now at times making the game unplayable for a significant number of players. I can't think of any industry at all, not even the dangerously insouciant IT sector, that would actually consider that a "solid" performance.

Commercial side? Well, we don't know, can't even guess, because ZoS isn't a publicly listed company.

Any more points you don't have?

All The Best

Vapirko · August 2019

Imo the only place where the subscription doesn't hold up in value is the general performance. No perks can make me resub when the game is functioning so poorly.