I have a PvP mindset. How do you make PvE enjoyable?

Rickey · April 2014

I made a topic on the forums dishing out my thoughts on PvP in this game and I kinda realize that I need to wait it out.

Now when I say PvE, im talking about raiding and boss fights. I enjoy MMOs a lot, they're the only games I play besides shooters every-now and then, but I can never really get into the player versus monster aspect of the games. Here's my breakdown of PvE and PvP (sorry if I offended you, ok im not, if you're offended by this, something's wrong with you).

PvP: You almost never know what to expect. The player/team has the option to do something different from the last fight if you fight them a million times. It's competitive. You want to prove that you're better than everyone. Competitiveness brings in an audience which equals advertisement, which is a + for the game. Taking a loss and trying to get better, and then actually seeing that progress is awesome. There's a lot more I could add but lets go on to PvE.

PvE: (Remember, this is how I view it. It's just a thought and not intended to offend)

The first encounter is exciting, you see how visually aesthetic the boss is and sit there with an OMG were about to fight this? face. Then the fight begins, and you already know what to do... Dodge the red telegraphs or whatever color the game decides the telegraphs are going to be, and then the boss enters it's next phase, raid leader calls out or types out what to do, your group does it, and BAM, boss down. Sometimes it doesn't go so smooth and you wipe 5-10 times realizing that you've wasted a lot of time trying at something that you might never do. But then you go back the next day and realize what the problem was and you do it, and now your group knows what to do EVERYTIME. Is that where the moment of joy comes from? Idk I just see a pattern, and for me, with repetitiveness comes boredom. Fight boss, die to boss, learn exactly what boss does, kill boss, repeat for every other boss you fight. Bosses usually just auto-attack the person taunting it (the tank), while everyone dpses it down and dodges the telegraphs. Bosses should, imo, have like 10-20 different moves that you have to react to, instead of regular choreographed attacks (Yeah i know, that'll never happen).

There's never usually a way to show competitiveness for PvE either. You either see that a person has a rare glowy item or that they reside to a particular guild that just might happen to be known. And that's it. There's no leader boards, no type of rating system, nothing. This is an MMO, you're playing online with many other people, doesn't comparison spark your interest?

Guy1: " You killed Big Fiery Glowing Lava Guy?",
Guy2:"yeah"
Guy1:"well so did we"
Guy2: "awesome"

As a competitor and a player of MMOs, I enjoy knowing how I compare with people, but unfortunately, doing so is never really taken notice of in high-end PvE. Maybe I have the wrong mindset for it, and that I shouldn't look at it as competition, but that's how I think. Now, please help me attempt to make PvE enjoyable, lol.

Tiyamel · April 2014

play PvE as if you were in PvP, thats how i roll, on the flip side practicing my skills in PvE makes me better when i head out for some PvP action

mutharex · April 2014

When I read posts like this, I lose the little bit of hope for humankind that I have left...

warhelix · April 2014

I drink beer. Works for me.

chadd.lindsayb14_ESO · April 2014

PvP and PvE are different monsters. Some things are compairable and some are not.

Some things that are the same...

PvP and PvE at some point both will require grouping.

PvP ... Zerg fest, every damn time. Same fight
PvE ... Same fight once u learn it unless Boss has some kind of AI or randomness to it's attacks. LOTRO does the random AI attacks well.

PvP ... leader boards etc... really means nothing. Lets be honest here. All it does is make people feel better about their virtual awesomeness. Higher self esteem maybe?
PvE ... No different. We all feel good once we kill a boss and get the loot.

Here is some of the differences worth mentioning...

PvP ... No real story. Just kill the enemy cause you want them dead and the crown.
PvE ... Deep story and lots of lore for the reason why you have to do XYZ.

PvP ... Mostly no exploration (usually)
PvE ... A huge rich world worth exploring. never know what you might find. Easter egg maybe.. or some evil nasty ready to shred you.

PvP ... Must have other players. (either on your team or as the enemy)
PvE ... Does not have to wait for others. Can enjoy the game at any time, day or night. (except the group content)

PvP ... Small area. Laggy as hell. Due to a large crowd in such a confined space.
PvE ... Large area with players spread out. Instances and zoning cuts down on lag.

The bulk of all MMO's is PvE. Always will be. PvE is the main reason why most people play games. PvP is just icing on the cake. PvP is actually a small part of games, for a small % of player types that are drawn to it.

I am not saying PvP is not needed or wanted. It has always been a part of MMO's, but a small part. Games will always cater to a much larger crowd, which is the PvE crowd.

Remember it's not the end of the journey (PvP), it's getting there that is most of the fun (PvE).
It is what it is.

Lazarus_Long · April 2014

My advice would be don't sell the AI short in this game. Yes, there are tells for the actions of the mobs, but they are same tells used in PvP for the players.

When out in PvE land try to get to quests far enough above your level to be hard. Most player I talk to are fighting at level up to level 6, then by 13 they fighting level 17 mobs. By the mid twenties most are fighting mobs in the low 30's. Some of the really good ones are fighting at 40 and up by then.

I don't get hung up by doing every side quest. I stick to the major story points and get most of my XP from exploring, chests, and mini-rifts. Besides I have several alts and want to save some content for each one.

Talk to NPC's that don't offer quests or sell things. There are a lot of generic ones, but a lot of them are real gems, too.

I can't really comment on VR content since I have not gotten to it yet but if the AI scales I think the combat will be tough and unpredictable.

Athise · April 2014

You always know what to expect in PvP, you kill other players that are bound to their class skills and you try to counter these with your class.
It's just like a boss in pve , the ability's are just randomly pressed by a player.
If it's an objective type of area , you know what to do and strategically know what the group would do. Ofcourse sometimes the group makes silly decisions.

Saying that you don't know what to expect in PvP is like doing PvE raidboss without reading any information of the tactics and putting the Raidleader on Mute.
Which is probably how you would enjoy PvE more...

AlienSlof · April 2014

chadd.lindsayb14_ESO wrote: »

PvP and PvE are different monsters. Some things are compairable and some are not.

Some things that are the same...

PvP and PvE at some point both will require grouping.

PvP ... Zerg fest, every damn time. Same fight
PvE ... Same fight once u learn it unless Boss has some kind of AI or randomness to it's attacks. LOTRO does the random AI attacks well.

PvP ... leader boards etc... really means nothing. Lets be honest here. All it does is make people feel better about their virtual awesomeness. Higher self esteem maybe?
PvE ... No different. We all feel good once we kill a boss and get the loot.

Here is some of the differences worth mentioning...

PvP ... No real story. Just kill the enemy cause you want them dead and the crown.
PvE ... Deep story and lots of lore for the reason why you have to do XYZ.

PvP ... Mostly no exploration (usually)
PvE ... A huge rich world worth exploring. never know what you might find. Easter egg maybe.. or some evil nasty ready to shred you.

PvP ... Must have other players. (either on your team or as the enemy)
PvE ... Does not have to wait for others. Can enjoy the game at any time, day or night. (except the group content)

PvP ... Small area. Laggy as hell. Due to a large crowd in such a confined space.
PvE ... Large area with players spread out. Instances and zoning cuts down on lag.

The bulk of all MMO's is PvE. Always will be. PvE is the main reason why most people play games. PvP is just icing on the cake. PvP is actually a small part of games, for a small % of player types that are drawn to it.

I am not saying PvP is not needed or wanted. It has always been a part of MMO's, but a small part. Games will always cater to a much larger crowd, which is the PvE crowd.

Remember it's not the end of the journey (PvP), it's getting there that is most of the fun (PvE).
It is what it is.

^ This ^

Any MMO worth its salt should have large doses of both. I don't care so much for PvP, but I still think it has its place and should be just as much a part of the game. More choice = larger player base.

AlchemyDevil · April 2014

chadd.lindsayb14_ESO wrote: »

PvP and PvE are different monsters. Some things are compairable and some are not.

Some things that are the same...

PvP and PvE at some point both will require grouping.

PvP ... Zerg fest, every damn time. Same fight
PvE ... Same fight once u learn it unless Boss has some kind of AI or randomness to it's attacks. LOTRO does the random AI attacks well.

PvP ... leader boards etc... really means nothing. Lets be honest here. All it does is make people feel better about their virtual awesomeness. Higher self esteem maybe?
PvE ... No different. We all feel good once we kill a boss and get the loot.

Here is some of the differences worth mentioning...

PvP ... No real story. Just kill the enemy cause you want them dead and the crown.
PvE ... Deep story and lots of lore for the reason why you have to do XYZ.

PvP ... Mostly no exploration (usually)
PvE ... A huge rich world worth exploring. never know what you might find. Easter egg maybe.. or some evil nasty ready to shred you.

PvP ... Must have other players. (either on your team or as the enemy)
PvE ... Does not have to wait for others. Can enjoy the game at any time, day or night. (except the group content)

PvP ... Small area. Laggy as hell. Due to a large crowd in such a confined space.
PvE ... Large area with players spread out. Instances and zoning cuts down on lag.

The bulk of all MMO's is PvE. Always will be. PvE is the main reason why most people play games. PvP is just icing on the cake. PvP is actually a small part of games, for a small % of player types that are drawn to it.

I am not saying PvP is not needed or wanted. It has always been a part of MMO's, but a small part. Games will always cater to a much larger crowd, which is the PvE crowd.

Remember it's not the end of the journey (PvP), it's getting there that is most of the fun (PvE).
It is what it is.

Well said. I could not agree more with every aspect of this post.

Calaban · April 2014

Some stuff you like, some stuff you don't. Simple as that.

Same with food, music, movies, books etc etc on and on...

knightblaster · April 2014

Some people are more cooperative than competitive. Other people take most pleasure in self-directed goals, getting a job well done and so on, regardless of competitiveness or cooperation.

One thing I have found, however, is that the competitor mindset people tend to be like extroverts -- that is, they absolutely cannot comprehend in a billion years why someone would think or want to behave differently from themselves. It's a burden for them as well, I think, that kind of myopia which seems almost impossible for them to escape.

TwixtMYnethers · April 2014

^What knightblaster said. But ain't no shame, ya like whatcha like. I've long accepted the fact that I'll never enjoy PvP. I can't force myself to be competitive and I rather enjoy routine and predictability. After an insane day at work pve helps me relax. So I guess what I'm saying is if you can figure out how to make a cat like a bath you'll know the secret to making yourself like pve...or convincing people like me that pvp is more funnerer.

rager82b14_ESO · April 2014

It is not about being competitive, people who are die hard into pvp some of us have come to a simple truth. MMOs will never be balance enough for PVP on small scale to matter. So now I pvp for fun, being competitive in mmo pvp is just not worth it. And it hurts the balance of people who enjoy PVE.

This is the first MMO that is smart enough not to focus on small scale pvp, The no CD on skills and how this game works, would make small focus pvp dumb.

If they tried to make it to be balance for small focus pvp, PVE would have to take a huge nerf. Skills would have to get some Cds, and it would just ruin many classes.

If you are super heavy into small focus pvp. This game is not for you. It is just that simple.

calyptic101b16_ESO · April 2014

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

It is not about being competitive, people who are die hard into pvp some of us have come to a simple truth. MMOs will never be balance enough for PVP on small scale to matter. So now I pvp for fun, being competitive in mmo pvp is just not worth it. And it hurts the balance of people who enjoy PVE.

This is the first MMO that is smart enough not to focus on small scale pvp, The no CD on skills and how this game works, would make small focus pvp dumb.

If they tried to make it to be balance for small focus pvp, PVE would have to take a huge nerf. Skills would have to get some Cds, and it would just ruin many classes.

If you are super heavy into small focus pvp. This game is not for you. It is just that simple.

While i agree with this at the same time Cyrodil is made for smaller groups of player teams to cordinate. But competitive small scal pvp is not even in this game.

rager82b14_ESO · April 2014

calyptic101b16_ESO wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

It is not about being competitive, people who are die hard into pvp some of us have come to a simple truth. MMOs will never be balance enough for PVP on small scale to matter. So now I pvp for fun, being competitive in mmo pvp is just not worth it. And it hurts the balance of people who enjoy PVE.

This is the first MMO that is smart enough not to focus on small scale pvp, The no CD on skills and how this game works, would make small focus pvp dumb.

If they tried to make it to be balance for small focus pvp, PVE would have to take a huge nerf. Skills would have to get some Cds, and it would just ruin many classes.

If you are super heavy into small focus pvp. This game is not for you. It is just that simple.

While i agree with this at the same time Cyrodil is made for smaller groups of player teams to cordinate. But competitive small scal pvp is not even in this game.

Ya, but really the pvp is fun, it can be competitive but i feel it is more light hearted, and more zerg. You have the options to do it, but lots of factors can change how things happen you know?

Unlike arena base, like some of the people want.

As a hardcore Arena player in wow. I use to love it, but...I notice that while I was amazing rogue, and RMP was OP for the longest time, each time a balance happens, or some class became super OP arena teams was form not around skill, but how OP that comp was. Even as we got up in ranks we face tons of RMP teams, or Beast cleaves.

I've come to understand that MMOs pvp should not be balance and competitive. It should just be fun and light hearted thing. Balance classes around pvp hurts mmos in the end.