Update 49 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of January 19:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 19
• NA megaservers for patch maintenance – January 21, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for patch maintenance – January 21, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 15:00 UTC (10:00AM EST)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 19
• NA megaservers for patch maintenance – January 21, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for patch maintenance – January 21, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 15:00 UTC (10:00AM EST)
Remove dps counters
hazelnuts
✭✭✭
remove dps counters from game, it just promotes elitism and toxicity, also give us the option to completly opt out of the esolog thingie and not just get shown as anonymous, unless its 11 completly randoms who all seem to play the same class + setup you always have a way to see which anonymous is who.
25
-
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭do you honestly believe that if dps tracking was disallowed/removed from the game that all toxic players would suddenly stop being toxic
stop looking for a scapegoat like this
[snip]
[edited for trolling]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 9, 2025 7:26PMskingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
56 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm kind of torn about this.
DPS meters are a fantastic tool to show where your personal perfomance is strong...and where you need improvement.
As far as personal use, it's a wonderful thing.
On the other hand...
You'll always have players using it as a reason to exclude and swing that e-peen. I have a friend I know who I work with. Let's call him "Kevin".
Kevin is a great guy....always there to help when you need something. Will occasionally pick up the lunch tab. Bring you a soda for no reason. Real solid, sweet person in the real world.
But, in game...don't be below him on DPS. Because he'll just trash talk, ask if you have thumbs or play using your feet. Boast and brag how he's just carried everyone and how we should be thankful to be in his presence.
In short, Kevin turns into a monster in game. (These are some tame examples, because forum. He gets much, much worse....)
So, personally, I'd say meters are a great tool to help you get better.
Publicly, there will always be fools who use it against you, or use it just to brag and hold others down.
That's why this question is so tough....Edited by Kel on August 23, 2019 9:15AM19 -
highkingnm✭✭✭✭No. If you want to do vet trials, you need to be able to prove you can hit the numbers needed. You won’t get rid of toxicity because people will still demand you parse down a dummy against a timer. You won’t get rid of elitism, because people will still be doing that damage. You just get rid of a useful tool. Multiple trials have DPS checks or are almost impossible with low DPS due to volume of mechanics.
Logs are useless whilst in a trial and why do they matter unless you are doing guild runs? They’ve been massively helpful to help my guild improve and refine trial performance by looking at the performance of each person within the organised group so we can tweak gear and strategy.
Having done vet Sunspire, Cloudrest and Maw prog attempts where there were people with DPS below our requirement and who didn’t play mechs, logs was helpful in identifying who we could take on prog runs if we hoped to clear. The guy who doesn’t swap on voltaic overload? He will prevent a clear, logs let’s us know that. The DPS hitting 10k on Maw despite being assigned to just parse? We aren’t there to carry them in a prog.17 -
Varkal2112✭✭✭This "toxicity" meme is getting stale. No one is obligated to carry you if you can't pull your weight. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 9, 2025 7:28PM52 -
Torment✭✭✭Hey i agree with you 100% I've been in dungeon finder just spawned in to find a vote to kick a lower cp player due to DPS not even giving the player a chance, I can understand if players want to run speed runs and no death but give people a chance it just seems some players have forgotten where they have come from and I'm dreading the day when someone makes an addon to inspect the gear you are wearing. I mean the bucket and broom I use comes in handy7
-
highkingnm✭✭✭✭I'm kind of torn about this.
DPS meters are a fantastic tool to show where your personal perfomance is strong...and where you need improvement.
As far as personal use, it's a wonderful thing.
On the other hand...
You'll always have players using it as a reason to exclude and swing that e-peen. I have a friend I know who I work with. Let's call him "Kevin".
Kevin is a great guy....always there to help when you need something. Will occasionally pick up the lunch tab. Bring you a soda for no reason. Real solid, sweet person in the real world.
But, in game...don't be below him on DPS. Because he'll just trash talk, ask if you have thumbs or play using your feet. Boast and brag how he's just carried everyone and how we should be thankful to be in his presence.
In short, Kevin turns into a monster in game. (These are some tame examples, because forum. He gets much, much worse....)
So, personally, I'd say meters are a great tool to help you get better.
Publicly, there will always be fools who use it against you, or use it just to brag and hold others down.
That's why this question is so tough....
People like that will just find another way to show off their e-peen. Meters are just their current tool.4 -
dtsharples✭✭✭✭✭If you only play the content you are ready and equipped for, your DPS should be around the same as everyone else's and wont matter if anyone sees it.
If you are doing content you aren't ready or equipped for, and are embarrassed by your DPS performance, that is more of an issue for you to figure out yourself. Practice, practice, practice
10 -
hazelnuts✭✭✭highkingnm wrote: »Multiple trials have DPS checks or are almost impossible with low DPS due to volume of mechanics.
This sounds like a excuse for not wanting to learn the proper mechanics, just look at the higher dps players when they are pugging some dungeons, have no clue about mechanics cuz normaly they are just burning everything and as soon as there is a lack of dps (other dd isnt as good maybe) they die to easy mechanics because they have never seen that8 -
highkingnm✭✭✭✭Hey i agree with you 100% I've been in dungeon finder just spawned in to find a vote to kick a lower cp player due to DPS not even giving the player a chance, I can understand if players want to run speed runs and no death but give people a chance it just seems some players have forgotten where they have come from and I'm dreading the day when someone makes an addon to inspect the gear you are wearing. I mean the bucket and broom I use comes in handy
So they kicked the moment the queue popped? How does removing DPS counters or logs stop that?
You are trying to fix a totally unrelated problem with this change. It’s not the code for the game, unrelated things don’t just happen when you change something.
6 -
Darkenarlol✭✭✭✭✭
✭bad dpser detected =P
instead of asking to remove usefull tool
use it by yourself to improve your poor dps
btw when dps is really bad it is easily noticible
even without numbers when somebody struggling
30+ sec on trash pack that dies in 3-4 sec with good dps8 -
beadabow✭✭✭I agree with Kel in as much as it's not the dps counter that is toxic, it's the player. Toxic players and trash-talkers are a dime a dozen. Just ignore them like most players do and play the game the way you like to play. There are so many fun things to do in ESO. I really don't have time for toxic banter with other players. Too many nice people to talk to, and even then I find it difficult to communicate with them as often as I would like. I'm too busy enjoying myself.
I also like to use dps counters to test different builds, set pairings, and rotations- to improve my own playing style. Though I sometimes post a screenshot of a combat metric display in my guild pages, it's not to brag, it's to share ideas with people I like, and to get pointers of things I can do to improve my dps.2 -
highkingnm✭✭✭✭highkingnm wrote: »Multiple trials have DPS checks or are almost impossible with low DPS due to volume of mechanics.
This sounds like a excuse for not wanting to learn the proper mechanics, just look at the higher dps players when they are pugging some dungeons, have no clue about mechanics cuz normaly they are just burning everything and as soon as there is a lack of dps (other dd isnt as good maybe) they die to easy mechanics because they have never seen that
If you have unbalanced DPS on Maw, that is a failure to play the mechanics and the Twins will kill you in execute. If you cannot do enough damage through shield phase on first boss, you will wipe. If you don’t damage Rakkhat enough, he will enter lunar phase. You will likely wipe. In Sunspire, if you don’t get the adds down fast enough, you will likely wipe. In Hardmode, you will. In vAA HM, the Mage will kill low DPS groups in execute. In vAS, you will get adds enraging. In vCR you won’t be able to clear portals in time, guaranteeing a wipe.
I mentioned trials, but if you want to talk about dungeons let’s look at them. Low DPS in vCoAII. That’s a wipe. Can’t get the wolves down in vMoS, the stranglers in vLoM, the werewolf adds in vMHK? That’s a wipe.
Damage checks are PART of the mechanics. You need to kill things before they kill you and ZOS has ways to enforce that behaviour. You can pretend it is ‘skipping the mechanics’ but step into Maw with a group of people only hitting 15-20k on target dummies and let me know how it goes.14 -
yeey✭✭remove dps counters from game, it just promotes elitism and toxicity, also give us the option to completly opt out of the esolog thingie and not just get shown as anonymous, unless its 11 completly randoms who all seem to play the same class + setup you always have a way to see which anonymous is who.
??0 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Varkal2112 wrote: »This "toxicity" meme is getting stale. No one is obligated to carry you if you can't pull your weight. [snip]
[snip]
Literally no one wants to carry people who're breaking their back cuz they pull 10k dps and stand in red 98% of the time.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 9, 2025 7:29PM"Buzz Lightyear toy isle shot" Stormcalling/Animal Companions/Assassination PVP build hater
Bring Back Pure Class Build Power20 -
Jimmy_The_Fixer✭✭✭✭✭The tool is fine, it’s how you use it.
If a player isn’t ready for a certain level of content then it’s better for them to know that they need to improve. Maybe it’s more pleasant in the short term to be blissfully unaware of the fact that you aren’t pulling your weight, but damage meters are the tool that tells you you’re in over your head while also helping you improve over time.5 -
hazelnuts✭✭✭highkingnm wrote: »If you have unbalanced DPS on Maw, that is a failure to play the mechanics and the Twins will kill you in execute. If you cannot do enough damage through shield phase on first boss, you will wipe. If you don’t damage Rakkhat enough, he will enter lunar phase. You will likely wipe. In Sunspire, if you don’t get the adds down fast enough, you will likely wipe. In Hardmode, you will. In vAA HM, the Mage will kill low DPS groups in execute. In vAS, you will get adds enraging. In vCR you won’t be able to clear portals in time, guaranteeing a wipe.
you see thats exactly what i mean, these trials (Except sunspire and cr) are from a time where dps was much lower then now and people still cleared it. Lunar phase in mol, that was pretty normal for the time after mol release. People also did them on hm, and now in a progression run everyone has to do 80k+ on the new dummy and no one even sees lunar phase. Unbalanced dps on twins? u you know you can just stop dpsing one of them to make damage on them even again?
vaa hm, people used novas to prevent wipes in execute and now? you run it with 1 tank and 1 healer and just kill it after 5 seconds in execute. vAS was 30min+ fight at the beginning and now? sub 6 minute fight time...
So dps is wayyy to high anyway but all the elitist people dont realise it and dont give people who do lower dps even a chanceVarkal2112 wrote: »
[snip]
11 people dont fail cuz of one (unless he is a tank or healer)
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 9, 2025 7:29PM7 -
highkingnm✭✭✭✭highkingnm wrote: »If you have unbalanced DPS on Maw, that is a failure to play the mechanics and the Twins will kill you in execute. If you cannot do enough damage through shield phase on first boss, you will wipe. If you don’t damage Rakkhat enough, he will enter lunar phase. You will likely wipe. In Sunspire, if you don’t get the adds down fast enough, you will likely wipe. In Hardmode, you will. In vAA HM, the Mage will kill low DPS groups in execute. In vAS, you will get adds enraging. In vCR you won’t be able to clear portals in time, guaranteeing a wipe.
you see thats exactly what i mean, these trials (Except sunspire and cr) are from a time where dps was much lower then now and people still cleared it. Lunar phase in mol, that was pretty normal for the time after mol release. People also did them on hm, and now in a progression run everyone has to do 80k+ on the new dummy and no one even sees lunar phase. Unbalanced dps on twins? u you know you can just stop dpsing one of them to make damage on them even again?
vaa hm, people used novas to prevent wipes in execute and now? you run it with 1 tank and 1 healer and just kill it after 5 seconds in execute. vAS was 30min+ fight at the beginning and now? sub 6 minute fight time...
So dps is wayyy to high anyway but all the elitist people dont realise it and dont give people who do lower dps even a chance
Asylum isn’t from a time of lower DPS. Lunar phase was why MoL was seen as virtually undoable for all but the best for ages (how’s that for elitism, content only absolute upper echelon could hope to clear?). Lunar phase was designed to punish lower-tier DPS (when it came out, 30k was top tier and, if people are hitting even 25k, you will miss lunar phase. 30k is not hard to hit anymore). In AA, healing changes mean Nova isn’t enough. You are also heavily assuming those number, 60k raid buffed is the number I have seen in every single raid guild I’m in.
Even if you disagree with me, those hard wipes on SS and CR (portal phases) alone prove the need for counters. We need to know the people going downstairs can clear it. Because if they can’t, 1 person absolutely can destroy it for the other 11. Don’t kill things quick enough you wipe. If you are the reason for that when there are just 2-3 DPS in portals, you have ruined the run for everyone.Edited by highkingnm on August 23, 2019 9:55AM12 -
Heelie✭✭✭✭✭
still does not answer why players should carry a much inferior player?
noone is entitled to a free carry through anything. Telling a player they're not good enough is completetly fair. The groups are an open market. If one group refuses you on a wrong basis there are others out there.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 9, 2025 7:33PMMost OwOrated healer of all time15 -
highkingnm✭✭✭✭Finally, before I nope out of this thread, think about what will replace damage requirements for guilds. Likely clears. So if you don’t have vet trial clears, you won’t get a guild to help you get them. That’s going to breed far more elitism and toxicity.3
-
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Someone telling you to improve isn't toxic behaviour.
You'll see people complaining all the time about how they are being excluded from content due to low DPS. But rather than complaining about being excluded, people should put in the work to actually raise their DPS. Those "elitists" that you're crying about spent countless hours perfecting their rotations. You can't expect to get to their level without putting in the work yourself.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 9, 2025 7:30PM14 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, yeah, trial groups are a free market. No one is stopping you from creating and leading a non-"elitist" group... I wonder why people don't do that instead of complaining on forums, after all, unlike bugs and balance issues this problem could easily be solved. It's pretty apparent that you dislike those "elitists", so why do you want to play with them and not with like-minded people? I'm sure there's a lot of non-elitist people like you, you should create a guild and conquer hardmodes at your own pace. Edited by LadyNalcarya on August 23, 2019 9:59AMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU14 -
Naftal✭✭✭✭✭Even if they removed all numbers from the UI, it's not hard to look at what players do to see how they're performing.
I don't think this topic is about the hardest content where everyone needs to focus on their own play and use logs to see how everyone did afterwards.3 -
Berserkerkitten✭✭✭✭DPS counters can be super helpful when you want to optimize your build and playstyle. The fact that some people use them to bully bad players isn't the fault of the DPS counter. In fact, if you take ages to kill things, stand in all the red circles and slow everyone down with a terrible performance, people will call you out on it, anyway, with or without numbers. Again, I think there are friendlier ways to try and get people to pull their weight instead of straight-up telling them they suck, but if people want to be rude about it, they're gonna be rude. Doesn't take a DPS counter for them to do so.Nobody cares about your endless list of terribly-named characters.5 -
Gatviper✭✭✭✭I used to play in Everquest II a moderate-to-high dps class, without even knowing stuff about measuring and optimizing your dps. I did fine, was better than most casual players and was on the higher end there, but was always wondering how those top-tier raid players who I grouped with, could pull of quite higher numbers than me.
Now in ESO, I came to the measuring of DPS through the Tactical Foundry Combat addon, and that taught me how to actually work towards optimizing the DPS value through better sets, better rotation, using different skills et cetera.
There will always be people using the DPS measuring to put down people who are not as good, but they would do so even without it, while it's a pretty useful thing to use, and I wouldn't want to play without it anymore.Life is a ride, like days in a train, cities rush by, like ghosts in the night.
The rhythm of wheels, time fades away, stations of a journey, destination unknown.2 -
LordGavus✭✭✭✭✭
✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »Well, yeah, trial groups are a free market. No one is stopping you from creating and leading a non-"elitist" group... I wonder why people don't do that instead of complaining on forums, after all, unlike bugs and balance issues this problem could easily be solved. It's pretty apparent that you dislike those "elitists", why do you want to play with them and not with like-minded people? I'm sure there's a lot of non-elitist people like you, you should create a guild and conquer hardmodes at your own pace.
Pretty much this.
Seems like the easiest option.
Start your own guild, fill your friend list with like minded people.
I sometimes wonder if the whole elitist thing is just a cover for people who want a carry but no one will take them.
10 -
NupidStoob✭✭✭✭✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »Well, yeah, trial groups are a free market. No one is stopping you from creating and leading a non-"elitist" group... I wonder why people don't do that instead of complaining on forums, after all, unlike bugs and balance issues this problem could easily be solved. It's pretty apparent that you dislike those "elitists", why do you want to play with them and not with like-minded people? I'm sure there's a lot of non-elitist people like you, you should create a guild and conquer hardmodes at your own pace.
Pretty much this.
Seems like the easiest option.
Start your own guild, fill your friend list with like minded people.
I sometimes wonder if the whole elitist thing is just a cover for people who want a carry but no one will take them.
[snip]
I was hoping guildfinder would address some of these issues, but it seems like many people aren't even aware it exists.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 9, 2025 7:35PM5 -
Elwarc✭✭✭there is an easier solution.
Kick toxic players from the group. if they are not happy with their RANDOM group they get, don't allow them to cherrypick and waste peoples time.
It is their issue with the group, so if anyone should leave it is them.
Just think of a dd sitting 15 minutes + in the queue, then he gets into the dungeon, gets immediately kicked for being low cp and has to wait another 15 minutes befiore he can queue, to sit another 15 min+ in the queue to get a new group.
You effectively wasted 45 minutes of someones time.
If you can't carry a low cp group through a dungeon or you don't want to, don't queue for a random.
You should go to form a group, look for people in chat and invest your own time, rather than wasting other peoples time.5 -
SienneYviete✭✭✭✭✭
✭IMO generally people that lack the coordination to do even mid tier dps or attempt to improve are usually the ones that also sandbag on the mechanics.Delta
Valheru's8
