Remove dps counters

Tsar_Gekkou

todokete wrote: »

I swapped to ESO back in Heavensward in ffxiv when parsing became a thing amongs the commmunity and you coudn't enjoy any content without people calling you out on your playstyle. Now I can't get myself to enjoy eso either when they know you're the "*** dps" in the party while doing pledges and they kick you.

I had been doing pledges before with no problem. Why kick now?

Everyone is getting used to how stamcros are hitting gross numbers and anything less feels wrong to some people.

JusticeForJilarga

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

todokete wrote: »

I swapped to ESO back in Heavensward in ffxiv when parsing became a thing amongs the commmunity and you coudn't enjoy any content without people calling you out on your playstyle. Now I can't get myself to enjoy eso either when they know you're the "*** dps" in the party while doing pledges and they kick you.

I had been doing pledges before with no problem. Why kick now?

Everyone is getting used to how stamcros are hitting gross numbers and anything less feels wrong to some people.

Stamcros? This one is wondering if you mean Stamina Sorcerer.

tgrippa

No they should not be removed, DPS meters and logs are essential end game tools. Also experienced players do not need addons to tell who is being carried. If someone is being a **** to you based on what an addon tells them, just tell them to **** off and move on, no need to completely remove good functionality from the game because of it.

Austinseph1

It’s your job to play your role effectively, if you are afraid that people will find out that you aren’t then you need to work on your build more. If you do the minimum expected damage in a dungeon or trial then you are okay, if not then you shouldn’t expect others to carry you. It’s not elitist, it’s your responsibility to go into group content and preform your job adequately. If you do that and get kicked then it’s not you that’s at fault. Take some time and practice your class and learn about combat mechanics and you will be rewarded.

SidraWillowsky

hazelnuts wrote: »

remove dps counters from game, it just promotes elitism and toxicity, also give us the option to completly opt out of the esolog thingie and not just get shown as anonymous, unless its 11 completly randoms who all seem to play the same class + setup you always have a way to see which anonymous is who.

Big agree, or only include people who have opted in

I am a former competitive runner. My glory days are over, but I still run (it's more like a shuffle-jog at this point though). I never track my speed. I know the general distances of routes around my neighborhood, so I have a rough idea of how far I went and how fast, but I never, ever record it. Why? Because it absolutely ruins running for me- if I'm tracking speed, I'm going to obsess about beating my previous times, worrying about being a lot slower, and generally just thinking way too much about it while I'm doing something that I love that I now do to relax. Now, if I were to decide to train for something things would be different, but I still wouldn't want to fastidiously track progress unless I plan to train for the Olympics.

I feel the same way about ESO Logs. If you are in an organized, formal vet trial group then that's one thing, but a casual normal Sunspire run? I don't want people tracking that and then posting it for me to see. It triggers my competitive side and then I feel like I'm ALWAYS competing with people, even if we're just doing farming runs. I don't WANT them to see how I do on an nAA run where I'm just shooting the sh*t with people. And I want to be able to shoot the sh*t without knowing that I'm being recorded.

One could argue that it pushes people to keep wanting to do better and I would partially agree. But I don't WANT every single instance of a trial or dungeon to be turned into that. If someone wants to use ESO Logs to track their own progress, then they can have at it. I just wish it would leave me out of it in those cases. Appearing anonymously is not effective when you play a magden like I do, since there are rarely any others in a group.

ETA that I pull decent enough DPS to not have to worry about being carried. It's a competition thing for me, which I don't think it what ESO Logs was even intended for. It still serves that purpose though.

LadyNalcarya

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

no point Zos want this behaviour in the game, they would have not added it to the base game or allow add ons, or have dps test dummies, just release that Zos is Happy with Toxic behaviour/elitism and come to terms with it

What's so toxic about expecting your team members to carry their weight and share the common goals/mindset? It's so strange that "anti-elitist" people tend to overlook the social aspect.
Group activities are supposed to be fun for everyone, and it's quite difficult to have fun in a company of people you secretly (or not so secretly) despise. Everyone has a different approach to the game, and it's perfectly normal, but trying to join people who have drastically different goals and mindset is a recipe for disaster. It can be an issue even for gaming couples (even though they have more in common that your average guildies), and you cannot expect a group of strangers to adopt your way of playing and conform to your goals.
Raid guilds are typically interested in people who share the same mindset and are team players. OP is obviously not interested in progression, and he/she also dislikes those guilds and their ways. Fair enough, but then why not to join a more relaxed guild and play with them? There's plenty of guilds that wouldn't even ask you for parses and you can always make a new one.
I've seen enough people who wanted to join the best raiding group they can find just to get a fancy title/skin and leave. Even if they have decent dps, this attitude is kinda bad, or, dare I say it, toxic. We might enjoy different things in game, but basic human decency is still a must. Seeing other people as free carries and stepping stones for your goals is not okay, it's no better than kicking a cp10 player from a normal dungeon or vandalizing rp events.
Live and let live. If you don't like how other people play their game, then don't play with them. There's enough space for all of us.

I do all content in the game, what i was stating was Zos was ok with it, i have been playing eso from alpha stages, what i stated is they are ok with it, no need to go on a rant. I have completed everything in game, so please dont presume i am saying something iam not with ur rant

My question still stays: what's toxic about wanting your team (and yourself) to improve? What's inherently toxic about dps tests?
ZOS does not actually encourage toxicity. It is, in fact, against TOS, so what you've said is objectively wrong.

Juhasow

hazelnuts wrote: »

highkingnm wrote: »

Multiple trials have DPS checks or are almost impossible with low DPS due to volume of mechanics.

This sounds like a excuse for not wanting to learn the proper mechanics, just look at the higher dps players when they are pugging some dungeons, have no clue about mechanics cuz normaly they are just burning everything and as soon as there is a lack of dps (other dd isnt as good maybe) they die to easy mechanics because they have never seen that

This sounds like an excuse for not wanting to learn how to play. If You think all mechanics can be bypassed with high DPS and all top players are unable to play with the mechanics and high DPS is just saving them from doing the mechanics Your delusion have reached incredibly high level.

Juhasow

hazelnuts wrote: »

highkingnm wrote: »

If you have unbalanced DPS on Maw, that is a failure to play the mechanics and the Twins will kill you in execute. If you cannot do enough damage through shield phase on first boss, you will wipe. If you don’t damage Rakkhat enough, he will enter lunar phase. You will likely wipe. In Sunspire, if you don’t get the adds down fast enough, you will likely wipe. In Hardmode, you will. In vAA HM, the Mage will kill low DPS groups in execute. In vAS, you will get adds enraging. In vCR you won’t be able to clear portals in time, guaranteeing a wipe.

you see thats exactly what i mean, these trials (Except sunspire and cr) are from a time where dps was much lower then now and people still cleared it. Lunar phase in mol, that was pretty normal for the time after mol release. People also did them on hm, and now in a progression run everyone has to do 80k+ on the new dummy and no one even sees lunar phase. Unbalanced dps on twins? u you know you can just stop dpsing one of them to make damage on them even again?
vaa hm, people used novas to prevent wipes in execute and now? you run it with 1 tank and 1 healer and just kill it after 5 seconds in execute. vAS was 30min+ fight at the beginning and now? sub 6 minute fight time...

So dps is wayyy to high anyway but all the elitist people dont realise it and dont give people who do lower dps even a chance

Varkal2112 wrote: »

[snip]

11 people dont fail cuz of one (unless he is a tank or healer)

You dont understand the context here. Lets move back to the times You're talking about. Those old days when vMoL was top trial. You're talking that low DPS was fine back then but this is not true. Back then that DPS that You consider as low right now was pretty high relatively speaking. If top DD was doing 50k then somebody that was doing 40k was basically doing 80% of top DPS which means he was decent player and he perfectly knew what he is doing. Now when top DPS is like 90k if somebody is doing said 40k he is doing less then half of top DPS which means he is way behind the top which further means he dont know what he's doing and he creates potential danger of a failure. That 40k DPS right now is like 15k DPS back then and nobody was taking DDs with 15k DPS to vMoL back then either. Context matters. Your DPS is basically saying how good You're at playing Your setup as DD and it always has to be decent percentage of what top DDs are capable to achieve at any given time if You want to be considered a decent player that wont fail when mechanics will come to play. Thing is all people make mistakes and if You dont have control over Your setup You'll make lot of mistakes and endanger Your team with the risk of failure.


That is also giving the conclussion to Your second post. Yes 11 people will fail because of the 1 even if that 1 person is DD. Each wipe is basically domino effect starting from 1 player and the worse You're at playing Your setup the closer You'll be to become 1st block of domino. There is plenty of fights where 1 player mistake (also DD) is causing unavoidable wipe.

[edited to remove quote]

yRaven

So i'm obligated to accept your 15k DPS on vPledge or Trial? Pls

JusticeForJilarga

90K DPS is the norm? This one really needs to work on the setup with JusticeForJilarga's 4K DPS.

SirAndy

JusticeForJilarga wrote: »

90K DPS is the norm? This one really needs to work on the setup with JusticeForJilarga's 4K DPS.

No, it is neither the norm nor necessary to complete 99% of the content in this game.

The first clue should be that that number comes from a raid/trial dummy. Nobody is hitting 90k on the normal dummies unless they have a full raid group to aid their parse.

If you can pull 15k dps solo when running actual content, you are ready for most anything this game has to offer ...

_Medusa_

Toxicity and elitism the OP mentioned, is in my opinion more prevalent on these forums than what I have seen in game.

Plus, there are dozens of helpful guilds one can do trials with.

vgabor

My small opinion. From technical point, in a 12 ppl raid anyone and everyone from that 12 can log the run, so there's no hiding anything from your raid mates even if you would want. And why would you want, from a fairness and game perspective, in a raid there's 12 people who want to reach a common goal, and it is fair if the participants want to see that everyone contributes and pulling their weight. You only should join a raid where you're happy to share your log with the others, you are effecting their gameplay, so they have the right to know how.

On the other side, if someone isn't one of that 12 people, then it's none of their business, and starting a *** measuring contest reflects bad on them.

Heelie

SirAndy wrote: »

JusticeForJilarga wrote: »

90K DPS is the norm? This one really needs to work on the setup with JusticeForJilarga's 4K DPS.

No, it is neither the norm nor necessary to complete 99% of the content in this game.

The first clue should be that that number comes from a raid/trial dummy. Nobody is hitting 90k on the normal dummies unless they have a full raid group to aid their parse.

If you can pull 15k dps solo when running actual content, you are ready for most anything this game has to offer ...

if you're doing 15k dps solo you're doing something terribly wrong, you can get more light attack spamming in purple gear

eovogtb16_ESO

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

I random queued normal dungeon last night with two so-called "elite" players, we'll call them "Uses Mephala on Stamplar" and "Mute Australian", "Uses Mephala on Stamplar" was queued as a tank and didn't taunt a single thing. They just relied on their damage to kill things and it got our healer constantly killed. I'm so sick of behavior like this from the "elite" players.

No elite player at all queues for normal dungeons. Normal dungeons are a joke it takes just as long to clear the vet ones as the normal ones at the elite level.

MartiniDaniels

Those dps "counters" are very useful when you play on magdps and see that your dps and sustain considerably dropped and so tank uses ransack and healer is not using ele drain. After that you may immediately provide toxic output to chat and rage QQ from PUG. Now imagine what will happen if you don't have CMX installed.

Shievarei

SirAndy wrote: »

JusticeForJilarga wrote: »

90K DPS is the norm? This one really needs to work on the setup with JusticeForJilarga's 4K DPS.

No, it is neither the norm nor necessary to complete 99% of the content in this game.

The first clue should be that that number comes from a raid/trial dummy. Nobody is hitting 90k on the normal dummies unless they have a full raid group to aid their parse.

If you can pull 15k dps solo when running actual content, you are ready for most anything this game has to offer ...

15k solo is a joke, sorry.

J2JMC

Ya'll hyperfocused on the dps meters bit (which I disagree with), but I agree with OP on the esologs thing. You should be able to completely opt out instead of just being listed as anonymous. Trial groups can simply require their members to opt in if they want to run with them.

As an aside, I swear people just use threads like these to farm agrees and insightfuls. Does it really take 20 different people to say some form of "dps meters are a tool to help players improve rotations"?

MartiniDaniels

Shievarei wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

JusticeForJilarga wrote: »

90K DPS is the norm? This one really needs to work on the setup with JusticeForJilarga's 4K DPS.

No, it is neither the norm nor necessary to complete 99% of the content in this game.

The first clue should be that that number comes from a raid/trial dummy. Nobody is hitting 90k on the normal dummies unless they have a full raid group to aid their parse.

If you can pull 15k dps solo when running actual content, you are ready for most anything this game has to offer ...

15k solo is a joke, sorry.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I heard he soloed vBRP.

Royaji

J2JMC wrote: »

I swear people just use the forums to farm agrees and insightfuls.

FTFY

Juhasow

J2JMC wrote: »

Ya'll hyperfocused on the dps meters bit (which I disagree with), but I agree with OP on the esologs thing. You should be able to completely opt out instead of just being listed as anonymous. Trial groups can simply require their members to opt in if they want to run with them.

As an aside, I swear people just use threads like these to farm agrees and insightfuls. Does it really take 20 different people to say some form of "dps meters are a tool to help players improve rotations"?

Frankly when it comes to discussion on forums - yes. Actually 20 may not be enough.

SirAndy

SirAndy wrote: »

If you can pull 15k dps solo when running actual content, you are ready for most anything this game has to offer ...

Heelie wrote: »

if you're doing 15k dps solo you're doing something terribly wrong, you can get more light attack spamming in purple gear

Shievarei wrote: »

15k solo is a joke, sorry.

And both of you completely missed my point ...

blkjag

No way.

TheBonesXXX

Remove trials, problem solved.

zvavi

I like my eso logs. I am able to check things about myself later on. I mean, isnt it why it exists? It can also be used to shut up overconfident people that think that they are carrying you. And they do that without even knowing logs. So dont blame the logs, blames those who misuse them.

MJallday

We’d kill for combat metrics on console...

mairwen85

Toxicity is rife in the lower middle tier player. Most actually good players tend to be more forgiving and willing to give advice... the issue in the latter scenario is willingness to ask for and accept it.

I’m not by any means the best player around, and this patch has thrown me a few new curve balls. But I pull my weight in most groups straddling my 40k. I’ve been outplayed in many runs where I’m rendered a tool with out a use not getting a lick in, and in other runs I’ve been the one doing all the work. Both situations, and everything between, are learning opportunities — logs and meters then the tool to aid learning.