THE MULTIPLE TRADER BID SOFTWARE WAS PROPERLY TESTED

marius_buys · August 2019

WELL DONE WHOEVER WAS TESTING THE SOFTWARE...

Excuse the rant but seriously how is there not some kind of counter, preventative measure or quality control for this nonsense:

MY TRADER BID LOST THIS WEEK
TO A GUILD WITH A TOTAL OF 22 ITEMS IN STOCK BY A SINGLE PLAYER.
APPARENTLY A TRADER BID SOFTWARE RANKING MALFUNCTION
or Russian Hackers...

Details:
Winning guild has a total of 22 ITEMS IN STOCK
all items listed by a SINGLE PLAYER
TOTAL VALUE of the items is LESS THAN 10K GOLD

Yeah, that guy is like TOTALLY a TRADING GUILD
and he outbid our bid by 1 Million + in gold to sell his items worth 10K in total...

Whoever was in charge of this, you can keep the gold refund, get your stuff together
or get some Russian Hackers to come do some in service training.

So after so inquiries it seems that due to the massive lag trader bids WERE ALLOCATED CORRECTLY on the winning guilds GUILD PAGE but were NOT ASSIGNED to the winning guild and left so "open" on the actual trader spot. So some dude could come hire the trader for 10K as an unbid on trader. Is this fair on the winning guild?

and if it's NOT the code then does ZOS need to upgrade their server as a CORE PRIORITY IMMEDIATELY not some scheduled putt off?

Insightful? Maybe, but I am sure this is nothing new to those who have become "aware".

Gariele · August 2019

There was no way to properly test this on PTS. Most go to the PTS to test upcoming content/sets or look at the housing. Trade GMs don’t have the time or patience to set up guilds to test this. This was testing on the fly and it severely backfired.

MartiniDaniels · August 2019

It is not software it is server load. Exactly the same software dealt with multi-bidding properly, on PC NA.

marius_buys · August 2019

Gariele wrote: »

There was no way to properly test this on PTS. Most go to the PTS to test upcoming content/sets or look at the housing. Trade GMs don’t have the time or patience to set up guilds to test this. This was testing on the fly and it severely backfired.

I have several high end IRL Software devs in my guild and they all agree that there was no model used to stress test the software even BEFORE it went to PTS.

I even joked before hand to expect at least a 30min + handover but to write software that cannot rank bids... is simply gross negligence.

Guizan · August 2019

Add to this that in game many guilds have a winning bid in the guild info, but when going to that trader in the world the trader is unassigned of assigned to another guild. And the guild with only a virtual trader in the guild panel can't place a bid even on an empty trader as they already HAVE a guild trader...

marius_buys · August 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

It is not software it is server load. Exactly the same software dealt with multi-bidding properly, on PC NA.

Then the answer is quite simple is it not, stop throwing funds into non-ESO RND and look after the community that is entrenched in and committed to your core business model.

or in other words
GET MORE SERVERS FOR EU
not more excuses...
not promises of upgrades...

PUT SOME OF THE PROFIT BACK AND MAKE IT WORK, THE EU SERVER IS IN TROUBLE.

reprosal · August 2019

marius_buys wrote: »

Gariele wrote: »

There was no way to properly test this on PTS. Most go to the PTS to test upcoming content/sets or look at the housing. Trade GMs don’t have the time or patience to set up guilds to test this. This was testing on the fly and it severely backfired.

I have several high end IRL Software devs in my guild and they all agree that there was no model used to stress test the software even BEFORE it went to PTS.

I even joked before hand to expect at least a 30min + handover but to write software that cannot rank bids... is simply gross negligence.

My uncle works for Skyrim. He said you don’t know what you are talking about.

Dont_do_drugs · August 2019

Clicked yezzzzzz!!!!

marius_buys · August 2019

reprosal wrote: »

marius_buys wrote: »

Gariele wrote: »

There was no way to properly test this on PTS. Most go to the PTS to test upcoming content/sets or look at the housing. Trade GMs don’t have the time or patience to set up guilds to test this. This was testing on the fly and it severely backfired.

I have several high end IRL Software devs in my guild and they all agree that there was no model used to stress test the software even BEFORE it went to PTS.

I even joked before hand to expect at least a 30min + handover but to write software that cannot rank bids... is simply gross negligence.

My uncle works for Skyrim. He said you don’t know what you are talking about.

Tell Uncle Sheo to STFU

...and Lydia does not count as a trader either.

SweepsAllClowns · August 2019

It's players fault as always, reset your routers before trading!

Arrodisia · August 2019

a few of us went to the PTS, specifically, to test this, which wasn't possible without the entire rest of the traders there. We did bring up concerns about it possibly being the wrong way to fix the issues, and the lack of us being able to test this under the same or even similar circumstances of the live servers.

marius_buys · August 2019

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

a few of us went to the PTS, specifically, to test this, which wasn't possible without the entire rest of the traders there. We did bring up concerns about it possibly being the wrong way to fix the issues, and the lack of us being able to test this under the same or even similar circumstances of the live servers.

Its no sweat to write a simple stress test programme that simulates multiple bids from multiple guilds to the same numbers as would be expected in the live server. I do not think it was even done AT ALL I dont even think ZOS does this for other software, simply eyes closed and launch and see what happens.

marius_buys · August 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

It is not software it is server load. Exactly the same software dealt with multi-bidding properly, on PC NA.

Was the server load to player ratio the same on NA as EU? I dont think so?

Arrodisia · August 2019

marius_buys wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

a few of us went to the PTS, specifically, to test this, which wasn't possible without the entire rest of the traders there. We did bring up concerns about it possibly being the wrong way to fix the issues, and the lack of us being able to test this under the same or even similar circumstances of the live servers.

Its no sweat to write a simple stress test programme that simulates multiple bids from multiple guilds to the same numbers as would be expected in the live server. I do not think it was even done AT ALL I dont even think ZOS does this for other software, simply eyes closed and launch and see what happens.

I was talking about from the players side. ZOS's issues are their own, and our feedback should've pushed them to delay or test it thoroughly. The lag seemed to have contributed. So, we really don't know for sure if and what was tested on their part or not. Maybe they'll give some reason why it happened. Maybe, we'll believe it and maybe not. Who knows. It's just to soon to tell.

Best Regards

Rake · August 2019

My uncle works for Skynet. And he said the end is near

marius_buys · August 2019

Rake wrote: »

My uncle works for Skynet. And he said the end is near

Uncle Sheo's sendin over da boys to have a word... with semtex

rpa · August 2019

It was tested in real load environment. At PCEU server.

marius_buys · August 2019

Titansteele
✭✭✭✭✭
People have managed to "hire" traders for 10K in the midst of the lag which has caused all sorts of chaos for the new bidding system.
It seems like while the traders were empty it was possible to click hire.

Guild Leader of The Twelve Knights, AD PVE, PVP and Trading Guild on the EU Mega Server

marius_buys · August 2019

ESO Trader Bids, the new Fallout 2019 DLC

Kagukan · August 2019

The problem is the guild trader system itself. Scrap the guild trader system and go to a global system that will be good for everyone.

marius_buys · August 2019

Question is, is ZOS going to revert to the winning bids or the opportunistic bids that were made for 10K within the lag period?

Guizan · August 2019

As a system developer, I tried to make a short analysis how I would have solved this assignment of traders with the new system, I do make some assumptions and as I am not privy to the details of the ESO infrastructure I might be off somehow, especially when it comes to specific numbers.

I counted to just over 200 traders placed around the world.

This means that we have at least 200 guilds doing bids on the traders, each guild place between 1 and 10 bids with the new system of multiple bids. Let us say an average of 4 bids per guild this first time, and this average will increase as guilds build a cash buffer for more bids.

We also have a lot of guilds that try to get a trader but who only succeeds now and then pushing away one of the 200 regular trade guilds. I would guess that we have at least 500 guilds that place between 1 and 3 bids and with the new system. I will assume that the average is 1.5 bids per failed guild.

So in all, we have 200 x 4 + 500 x 1.5 = 1550 bids

Then all bids have to be put in a list sorted from highest to lowest and then the top bid win its trader automatically. Once you win a bid all the rest of the bids of that guild will be removed from the list, and the gold for those bids will be returned via mail. (something that FAILED miserably this week BTW)

We also have to have rules what happens in case of a tie when the top two bids are the same amount and on the same trader and this I have not addressed here but it could be either random, or if ZOS want to drain as much gold as possible from the economy they give the bid to the guild with the lower second bid

Then you go to the next highest remaining bid to find out who gets trader #2, and repeat the same procedure until you are out of bids or all the traders are assigned.

If bids still remain after all traders are assigned those bids will be refunded to the bidders.

It SHOULD be easy to create automatic testing for this with a set of randomly generated bids. Also, I hope that the bidding is handled by a separate computer that gets the data from the main database of the game and does the calculations without dragging down the server performance. After all the calculations are done the result should be returned to the database of the server.

vlakipn · August 2019

Kagukan wrote: »

The problem is the guild trader system itself. Scrap the guild trader system and go to a global system that will be good for everyone.

Dont forget also, to make each player has equal gold (lets say 10k). It would be symbolic and everyone could start fresh, right? Like a flood.

thorwyn · August 2019

Just how difficult can it be to simulate server load by running a bunch of scripts?

marius_buys · August 2019

Guizan wrote: »

As a system developer, I tried to make a short analysis how I would have solved this assignment of traders with the new system, I do make some assumptions and as I am not privy to the details of the ESO infrastructure I might be off somehow, especially when it comes to specific numbers.

I counted to just over 200 traders placed around the world.

This means that we have at least 200 guilds doing bids on the traders, each guild place between 1 and 10 bids with the new system of multiple bids. Let us say an average of 4 bids per guild this first time, and this average will increase as guilds build a cash buffer for more bids.

We also have a lot of guilds that try to get a trader but who only succeeds now and then pushing away one of the 200 regular trade guilds. I would guess that we have at least 500 guilds that place between 1 and 3 bids and with the new system. I will assume that the average is 1.5 bids per failed guild.

So in all, we have 200 x 4 + 500 x 1.5 = 1550 bids

Then all bids have to be put in a list sorted from highest to lowest and then the top bid win its trader automatically. Once you win a bid all the rest of the bids of that guild will be removed from the list, and the gold for those bids will be returned via mail. (something that FAILED miserably this week BTW)

We also have to have rules what happens in case of a tie when the top two bids are the same amount and on the same trader and this I have not addressed here but it could be either random, or if ZOS want to drain as much gold as possible from the economy they give the bid to the guild with the lower second bid

Then you go to the next highest remaining bid to find out who gets trader #2, and repeat the same procedure until you are out of bids or all the traders are assigned.

If bids still remain after all traders are assigned those bids will be refunded to the bidders.

It SHOULD be easy to create automatic testing for this with a set of randomly generated bids. Also, I hope that the bidding is handled by a separate computer that gets the data from the main database of the game and does the calculations without dragging down the server performance. After all the calculations are done the result should be returned to the database of the server.

In case of a tie the bid should go to the guild with the most stock imo

I wonder how the software goes to the losing guilds next bid if the guild bid the same amount multiple times?
It is perhaps wiser to in future:
Not bid the same amounts and to have 10 players standing at each venue to bid for 10K in case any of the others were lost
or lag...

Oh what fun on a Sunday evening

Does the PC EU server seriously HAVE to be the stress test environment for all new software?
Did I buy the game for a continuous ALPHA version on live?

OsManiaC · August 2019

12 pages of only gms in pts thread, they could at least read some of them

GrimTheReaper45 · August 2019

They shouldnt have added this "feature" in the first place...

marius_buys · August 2019

And after that fiasco I have to see this:
Maintenance for the week of August 19:
· [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – August 19, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)

It's NOT complete is it?

marius_buys · August 2019

Time for one of em famous "hot" patches that allocate the bids as intended

x48rph · August 2019

As it worked fine on NA, I don't think it was the actual mutibid code. It's more like something particular to the EU server. Not really sure what they are doing different there, but this isn't the first bug to only strike the PC EU server. They really need to address that.

jazsper77 · August 2019

Just checking to see how the NA PC Trader flip went?

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THE MULTIPLE TRADER BID SOFTWARE WAS PROPERLY TESTED

THE MULTIPLE TRADER BID SOFTWARE WAS PROPERLY TESTED 162 votes