Official statement about multi-bid situation on EU-server ????

ValueDrift · August 2019

ThorinOakenshield86 wrote: »

If they rollback server with time before 16:30 cest yesterday and don't refund my twitch senche, my wrath will be terrible and i will say bye to eso plus membership, maybe to eso itself.

21:00 CEST is when trader bids happen. I don't know how frequently ZOS takes and keeps snapshots of the data, but I'd be surprised if the rollback went back as far as 16:30.

Then again, I'd be surprised if they do the rollback, their silence on the matter suggests they aren't aware of how serious the situation is.

Grimm13 · August 2019

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

the whole thing has been a huge mistake that should never have made it past PTS, why bother having a PTS if your not going to listen to the feed back? i predict a long than usual down time today with guild history staying off for some time, the extra gold and if rumours are correct the buying up of anything of value will destroy the in game economy and worst the QOL of the average player who struggle to improve gear, buy mats and pots as it is, and to those ppl who have (or may have) done this to drive prices up even after a windfall of free gold then you are nothing more than scam artists and should be banned (exploiting a bug for advancment in game)
ZOS you need to act and communicate as per your promise a couple of weeks ago

We tried telling ZOS that PTS was not capable of testing this. They did not respond to our concerns. We asked ZOS to not do this as we were concerned it would not work as they intended. Again they ignored us.

I even suggested that they only do 2 bids to ensure the system worked, that the loads on the server could be observed and then they could raise it slightly to see that the servers were not overloaded and it still worked as they thought it would. Ignored by ZOS again on this.

Would like to see a sub-forum for Guilds and Traders added so threads don't get buried or scattered across multiple sub-forums can be clearly seen in a grouping by all.

IF P=Program
THEN L=Learn
SUM L2P

rpa · August 2019

Anyway If I understand right, untested in real load PCEU trader Pachinko spilled its gears.
As result nobody got their trader whether they actually won the bid or not, and all trades were up to pick for 10K
and at least some guilds got massive overrefunds.

In that situation guild managers with a brain assumed that ZoS may not be able to roll back and did what they
should: grapped a 10K trader and purchased everything valuable for trade expecting massive inflation.

No harm done to economy if ZoS does rollback but can't blame people for doing the logical thing.

Edit: Yes, they are bit too late for rollback.

JPS · August 2019

I wish people would start using their brains and stop whining about a rollback. There is no way a rollback could happen, since it would affect much more than just the traders. And then other people will whine. Think !

Urigall · August 2019

rpa wrote: »

In that situation guild managers with a brain assumed that ZoS may not be able to roll back and did what they should: grapped a 10K trader and purchased everything valuable for trade expecting massive inflation.

Well they'd better get moving. I hopped around several guilds this morning. Not much for sale on many guild spots.

Shievarei · August 2019

If people got to keep their free Necromancers should this be allowed as well?

rpa · August 2019

Shievarei wrote: »

If people got to keep their free Necromancers should this be allowed as well?

Well, if game spontaneously decides to dump thousands, millons or bilions of gold on some rich people its not their fault. Too bad I'm still poor but good for em.

Alcast · August 2019

Eyllora wrote: »

Hello everyone !
And hello @ZOS_GinaBruno and ZOS !

I guess that it is not to much to qualify the first multi-bid swap as a disaster on EU server.
I would lie if I would say that we expected it to be different, and one hour before the actual swap we all knew that it wouldn't be peaceful considering the lag spreading all over the game.

Sadly, many hours after that, there is no official communication about what happened, and eventually what will happen in the next few hours. And this last information is crucial for all people running trading guilds !!!
Maintenance is coming : will there be a roll back ? will the guilds who actually won their bids get their trader ? Will we all have to run to hire a trader ? Will the situation stay as it is during the whole week ? Will the problem be solved for the next bid ?
Glad for the US-server that everything went smooth for them ? But why didn't it work for us ?
Once more, not only the devs are failing, but the communication itself is a fiasco.

As we tend to say a lot, we LOVE the game, it is an AWESOME game ! But seriously, how can we not be absolutely disappointed by the perpetual disaster each "quality of life" improvement is bringing, and how you communicate about it. Do you understand why it seems to us that you don't care at all? We have seem how fast it was to fix the "free necromancer-loss of money bug" last week.

So now it would be nice to see that someone cares and get some answers.I remember you saying that you would improve communication. Now is a good time to do it !
Thanks for reading Zos, eventually....

And please people, stay constructive in this thread, this is a really a call for official communication, thanks

Implementing a new system on a weekend where nobody is at work, what could possibly go wrong. On top of that it is literally like prime time when the trader swap happens.

The amount of cash people got from the bug will be hard to track, especially because most people laundered the money already with buying houses, materials etc.

The only real solution would be a rollback, but by the time they decide on what to do, it will probably be monday evening for EU players, and can they really rollback the server at this point?

My biggest issue with this is that ZOS seems to have absolutely no understanding of what they are doing, for such a company it should be obvious to set these kind of implementations in a controlled environment where staff is present in case *** hits the fan. ESPECIALLY because a lot of the bigger trade guilds already mentioned that it will cause issues. There is a feedback topic on the new bidding system in the PTS section, it has 12 pages by now, it was filled with concerns from GMs because PTS testing doesn't reflect the server issues when trader flip is happening on the Live servers. Last response from ZOS in that topic is from 12th July (page 2 in the topic.) Silence since then.

Another problem, how can this swap of traders cause SO MUCH STRESS on the server? It seems to me that these would be fairly simple calculations that should be handled with ease for a big server like this. This leaves me with little hope for the performance roadmap. I was already very pessimistic (or realistic), but seeing that they simply do not have any organization or structure in the company, I doubt the roadmap will change performance a lot.

zsban · August 2019

Based on what happened with the refunds, maybe ZOS devs should read this: https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2018/10/01/patterns-for-distributed-transactions-within-a-microservices-architecture/

If the server is slow to respond and one side sending a request thinks that the other side timed out and closes connection and initiates a retry while the other side is just busy processing stuff, and then tries to return a response only to see that the sender is not listening anymore... I mean come on. Should not be a challenge these days to the average developer.

But really, feels like interns doing all the coding these days with zero experience in these kind of things.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · August 2019

if this doesnt get fixed im done trading...I worked hard for my millions and making this forced inflation is just unfair to everyone else.

MartiniDaniels · August 2019

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

if this doesnt get fixed im done trading...I worked hard for my millions and making this forced inflation is just unfair to everyone else.

ZOS is really brave to ruin half of game aspects one week before release of classic. I mean I don't think that classic will be that good or will keep a lot of players, but MMO has such feature as a habit to play, habit to value certain things like your gold, goodies, guilds and your characters. When gold loses it's price, market is crazy and half of your characters are ruined every patch and there is alternative of game which lacks problems of modern gaming... you may simply lose that habit to play and log on.

Mizael · August 2019

Nothing written on patch notes... idk what to say

chess1ukb16_ESO · August 2019

If they do not permaban people that laundered gold since this happened and reclaim the multi-bid refunds PC EU is going to get rough.

Normal so far unaffected players will never be able to afford to buy potions or upgrade their gear because all the raw ingredients will be sitting in craft bags of Trade GM's.

JamieAubrey · August 2019

chess1ukb16_ESO wrote: »

If they do not permaban people that laundered gold since this happened and reclaim the multi-bid refunds PC EU is going to get rough.

Normal so far unaffected players will never be able to afford to buy potions or upgrade their gear because all the raw ingredients will be sitting in craft bags of Trade GM's.

How come all the gold glitches get fixed when I hear about them ? I could use a few thou

zsban · August 2019

Mizael wrote: »

Nothing written on patch notes... idk what to say

ZOS is like:

Cously · August 2019

What exactly happened?

Svenja · August 2019

@Cously

Cously wrote: »

What exactly happened?

The new multi-bid-system for guild traders bugged out. People made hundreds of millions of gold out of nowhere, one GM has 1.3 billion (not million. billion) gold more than before. Gold materials on traders are spiking in price.

Svenja wrote: »

The amount of gold this has brought into the game is massive.
Guilds got refunded more than what they bid, and we are not talking about a few thousand gold here. It's billions of gold from out of nowhere.
Some guilds got refunded several hundred millions more than what they bid, apparently some GMs have more than 1 BILLION gold more than before the trader bids. A great part of this gold is already laundered, people who got showered with gold yesterday bought literally everything in guild stores. There were basically NO dreugh wax, rosins or tempering alloy left in any guild in craglorn, rawlkha or Deshaan when I checked them last night, and when I logged off, people just started listing wax for 20k a piece.. if those are the new PC EU market prices for golden improvement mats then I don't know what to say.

My guess is, ZOS will do nothing, as they would have to do a complete server rollback and too much time has passed already. It's been 12 hours.

Cously · August 2019

Svenja wrote: »

@Cously

Cously wrote: »

What exactly happened?

The new multi-bid-system for guild traders bugged out. People made hundreds of millions of gold out of nowhere, one GM has 1.3 billion (not million. billion) gold more than before.

Svenja wrote: »

The amount of gold this has brought into the game is massive.
Guilds got refunded more than what they bid, and we are not talking about a few thousand gold here. It's billions of gold from out of nowhere.
Some guilds got refunded several hundred millions more than what they bid, apparently some GMs have more than 1 BILLION gold more than before the trader bids. A great part of this gold is already laundered, people who got showered with gold yesterday bought literally everything in guild stores. There were basically NO dreugh wax, rosins or tempering alloy left in any guild in craglorn, rawlkha or Deshaan when I checked them last night, and when I logged off, people just started listing wax for 20k a piece.. if those are the new PC EU market prices for golden improvement mats then I don't know what to say.

My guess is, ZOS will do nothing, as they would have to do a complete server rollback and too much time has passed already. It's been 12 hours.

Damn, do you know the situation in NA? I was curious to see what would happen on the multibidding but ended up falling sleep.

zsban · August 2019

NA is all fine.

Svenja · August 2019

Cously wrote: »

Svenja wrote: »

@Cously

Cously wrote: »

What exactly happened?

The new multi-bid-system for guild traders bugged out. People made hundreds of millions of gold out of nowhere, one GM has 1.3 billion (not million. billion) gold more than before.

Svenja wrote: »

The amount of gold this has brought into the game is massive.
Guilds got refunded more than what they bid, and we are not talking about a few thousand gold here. It's billions of gold from out of nowhere.
Some guilds got refunded several hundred millions more than what they bid, apparently some GMs have more than 1 BILLION gold more than before the trader bids. A great part of this gold is already laundered, people who got showered with gold yesterday bought literally everything in guild stores. There were basically NO dreugh wax, rosins or tempering alloy left in any guild in craglorn, rawlkha or Deshaan when I checked them last night, and when I logged off, people just started listing wax for 20k a piece.. if those are the new PC EU market prices for golden improvement mats then I don't know what to say.

My guess is, ZOS will do nothing, as they would have to do a complete server rollback and too much time has passed already. It's been 12 hours.

Damn, do you know the situation in NA? I was curious to see what would happen on the multibidding but ended up falling sleep.

Everything is fine on NA, things went smooth.
Never did I expect anything else. it's always PC EU that gets screwed. The server was acting up during bidding time, with all the old issues - guild chat massively delayed, cyrodiil keep doors not going down even when they were at 0%, all the issues we already had a few months ago which led to ZOS disabling guild histories for the first time. It was all back yesterday.

Cously · August 2019

Svenja wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

Svenja wrote: »

@Cously

Cously wrote: »

What exactly happened?

The new multi-bid-system for guild traders bugged out. People made hundreds of millions of gold out of nowhere, one GM has 1.3 billion (not million. billion) gold more than before.

Svenja wrote: »

The amount of gold this has brought into the game is massive.
Guilds got refunded more than what they bid, and we are not talking about a few thousand gold here. It's billions of gold from out of nowhere.
Some guilds got refunded several hundred millions more than what they bid, apparently some GMs have more than 1 BILLION gold more than before the trader bids. A great part of this gold is already laundered, people who got showered with gold yesterday bought literally everything in guild stores. There were basically NO dreugh wax, rosins or tempering alloy left in any guild in craglorn, rawlkha or Deshaan when I checked them last night, and when I logged off, people just started listing wax for 20k a piece.. if those are the new PC EU market prices for golden improvement mats then I don't know what to say.

My guess is, ZOS will do nothing, as they would have to do a complete server rollback and too much time has passed already. It's been 12 hours.

Damn, do you know the situation in NA? I was curious to see what would happen on the multibidding but ended up falling sleep.

Everything is fine on NA, things went smooth.
Never did I expect anything else. it's always PC EU that gets screwed. The server was acting up during bidding time, with all the old issues - guild chat massively delayed, cyrodiil keep doors not going down even when they were at 0%, all the issues we already had a few months ago which led to ZOS disabling guild histories for the first time. It was all back yesterday.

Sorry to hear that, this is truly disgusting. It seems the best solution would be a rollback but I don't remember them ever doing it in the past plus the people who got a special loot/achievement/emperor whatever would lose a lot.

BansheeVT · August 2019

They did a rollback before, hoped they would also do it this time. Losing an achievement is nothing compared to this mess

Svenja · August 2019

Yeah well, a rollback is not an option anymore, 15 hours after the mess started. That would have been a thing yesterday evening when they first realized things went south, it's way too late.

Dont_do_drugs · August 2019

It is way too late for rollback. While that zos is making super-duper marketing on super-duper awesome game and super duper community. If the gold bs doesn't get fixed its a legit reason for most mid and low tier guild to just quit on that bs. Guild competition is dead, if it wasn't before.

ATomiX69 · August 2019

Shievarei wrote: »

If people got to keep their free Necromancers should this be allowed as well?

People making necromancers doesnt affect others, people literally pumping billions/trillions of generated gold into the economy affects everyone, gold materials will go for 30k each or something ridiculous like that the next few days.
Gold will basicly become worthless and its gonna take weeks / months to make upgrade mats somewhat affordable again.
They cant just take away the gold from the people who exploited it, because its already laundered / invested into materials / other stuff and its basicly untraceable where all that gold that was generated yesterday went.
So a full rollback to a snapshot of yesterday before bidding was up is the only logical solution out there for ZOS to consider.
But how we know ZOS, they are gonna just suspend all the people who bid on the traders for 2 weeks and call it a day lol.

OsManiaC · August 2019

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

It is way too late for rollback. While that zos is making super-duper marketing on super-duper awesome game and super duper community. If the gold bs doesn't get fixed its a legit reason for most mid and low tier guild to just quit on that bs. Guild competition is dead, if it wasn't before.

if there is no rollback, I am done. I did extra effort to come this far without sale req/fee. I did not deserved this

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2019

Alcast wrote: »

ESPECIALLY because a lot of the bigger trade guilds already mentioned that it will cause issues. There is a feedback topic on the new bidding system in the PTS section, it has 12 pages by now, it was filled with concerns from GMs because PTS testing doesn't reflect the server issues when trader flip is happening on the Live servers. Last response from ZOS in that topic is from 12th July (page 2 in the topic.)

Those 12 pages (and the other related topics) were dedicated to the market behaviour induced by the multibidding system - NOT the technical/computing behaviour. Even if 90% of the participants were against multibidding, it was based on expected market consequences, not server consequences. While most of us are always somewhat wary of bugs, noone predicted or warned against the current PC/EU disaster.

Alcast wrote: »

This leaves me with little hope for the performance roadmap. I was already very pessimistic (or realistic), but seeing that they simply do not have any organization or structure in the company, I doubt the roadmap will change performance a lot.

All companies have huge organisational and structural issues, all companies dysfunction. Yet many of them achieve good results (profit, products, research, market share, whatever). I understand that you don't want to cuddle ZOS (which some people suspect the Class Reps of doing), and I think the current guild trader situation is a true disaster, but there's imho no need to go THAT far into criticism. Even if scepticism and criticism always make one look smarter.

ZOS managed to make a thriving game out of a game that was truly dying 6 months after launch, in spite of their blatant organisation and structure issues. They'll solve the performance issues at some point. Even if being optimistic makes me look dumb.

daemonios · August 2019

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS managed to make a thriving game out of a game that was truly dying 6 months after launch, in spite of their blatant organisation and structure issues. They'll solve the performance issues at some point. Even if being optimistic makes me look dumb.

I didn't see the game dying 6 months after launch. I've had no access to the numbers. ZOS launched the store less than a year after launch. Between the decision to implement it and the time required to write the code and make the necessary changes to the game, that decision must have been made prior to launch or soon thereafter. Unless ZOS disclose official documents proving otherwise, I'm calling BS on this theory that the store saved a dying game.

Varana · August 2019

Cously wrote: »

What exactly happened?

Not only got extra gold refunded from the bid, the whole system simply gave up.

Some people got more than one "you won a bid" message. Even more than they actually bid for.

Some guilds have their actual trader, some only a virtual one: They have a trader at the banker and the guild screen, but the actual trader is owned by another guild.

Even shortly before the server came down for the patch, some traders had no guild that owned them, in places like Orsinium or the whole Riften row (!). I'm pretty sure that they're not actually still for hire, but neither can their guilds sell things there.

The extra money is good for riling up emotions, but it's only a minor part of the whole tsunami of sh!t that was last night's trader flip.

Eyllora · August 2019

And still no official word from ZOS.
I'm happy that we all try to stay constructive here, thanks all for this ! It contributes to show the great community we are and how badly Zos is treating us :-(

My thoughts are really turned towards all the starting/casual players who need mats and gear and won't be able to afford anything because of the sudden inflation, generated by the crazy amount of money poured yesterday evening. They'll also have difficulties to enter a guild for making some money, cos all the starters-small-medium guilds won't resist long with this new (and broken) system.

Trading has always been for me a pleasure in this game, an activity that I love : I'm quite desperate now to see how it turns.