susmitds wrote: »

Because 99% of the time, they are actually good players. Everytime a 1vXer or small scale group wipes a zerg, they are automatically assumed to be cheaters. I have been both sides of the fence, so I know.

One day at Chalman I was firing Lethal Arrows off the roof of the inner keep during a Defense and took a guy down. He later accused me of ability desyncing and reported it to Microsoft for cheating. I later explained it to him that I just play normally and the server lag is to blame but nonetheless, I now have one cheating report on an otherwise spotless Xbox Live record.

Earthewen wrote: »

Why not have a wall of shame for those pretend names? Why protect the victimizers?

Because some people lie, that's why. Someone might just lie just to get someone else in trouble, or get them demonized by the community.

Rule about naming and shaming is enforced on about every gaming forum I've ever used. That includes sub-Reddits. There is a very simple reason for it. Without it, every pissed person would start blackpainting campaings against players they don't like. "Proof" is simple to fabricate, and people like to believe *** talk about other people without any kind of proof. Forums would be flooded with rumours and false accusations by people who haven't yet reached the maturity to leave that kind of behaviour to high school. And there are people who are 50 years old who still have the mind set of a highschooler when it comes to social interactions.

therift wrote: »

Game servers are private property. There are civil torts as well as criminal statutes that could be employed, if you can find a prosecutor willing to spend the money, and if you have jurisdictional reach.

There is a big point here. These cheaters and exploiters that are being discussed are not criminals.

therift wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Game servers are private property. There are civil torts as well as criminal statutes that could be employed, if you can find a prosecutor willing to spend the money, and if you have jurisdictional reach.

There is a big point here. These cheaters and exploiters that are being discussed are not criminals.

In extreme situations, people who continue to access a computer system after being barred from entry could be prosecuted under state and Federal statutes. As I said, finding a prosecutor willing to take on the time and expense would be difficult.

Civil action is a much more viable remedy; there are several well-publicized cases in which cheaters were sued. Such action would be challenging to win in court since there is so little case law with which to work. This is the reason why most publishers take the easy, immediate, and virtually cost-free action of banning accounts, and why they avoid creating a legal liability themselves by naming-and-shaming, which would be chum in the water to lawyers who specialize in libel actions.

ESO has not had any even remotely "extreme" cases, aside from the potential NDA exposure that happened earlier this year.

There really isn't anything that the majority of cheating and exploiting players are doing that justifies the actions requested here in this thread. As you say, naming and shaming is likely to get into libel territory, and that is "poking the bear" where the bear did not need to be poked.

On this subject, I do think that ZOS suffers from a "perception gap"... but ZOS has suffered from one perception gap or another for more than 5 years, and that does not seem to worry them.

Berserkerkitten wrote: »

All this nonsense about legal action. You're aware that ZOS is hotboxing lawyers, yes? And still they ban people by their game accounts, if at all. Yes, some people cheat, that's not fair or overly fun. That's people for you. Expecting them to get banned by IP, MAC address, credit card information or lawsuit is extremely pointless, to put it politely.

Exactly what I have stated several times in this thread.

Yesterday i killed a 5 star PvP light armor no shields up player with a heavy attack, incap, light attack, bow proc, light attack and maybe even a bash while he/she was trying to zerg down another player.

Got a "Macro cheater" whisper in 5 seconds.

Some people have practiced or have just played this game a lot and are better and faster than a person who has been zerging the map for years. Instead of admitting they arent very good or try to become better you get called by them.

Basically : i lost, you cheated.

What ever happened to the days where doing the wrong thing got people shunned? Where standing up for the justice or the right thing was a virtue? Without punishment, decent people suffer. Cheating is cheating. It doesn't get more black/white.

That's a cool idea, hire some people to update a completely pointless wall of shame, because god knows they don't need their resources elsewhere right now.

Earthewen wrote: »

I'd like to talk just for a bit about why it is so important to protect the guilty. Many people in this game do not cheat but have been trolled and victimized by those who have through whispers and zone trolling, etc. Many people have been called names for suspecting the cheaters and exploiters, and now many of us know that we were indeed not crazy but accurate in our suspicions.

My question is why do we find it necessary to allow those who have cheated and exploited to maintain their fake "honor" or their ability to maintain, "I'm just a good player" crap? I get it that we don't name and shame in this game, but keeping things completely hidden cannot possibly help in changing the current climate. Don't name people necessarily by real names, but these are pretend names. Why not have a wall of shame for those pretend names? Why protect the victimizers?

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

I guess from the console perspective it depends on if you consider modded controllers cheating. I'm old and slow, so I consider them cheating as it gives others who may be old and slow an advantage over me. I know a good player when I run across one, and I've been in guilds with some of them and know how they control a fight and just truly good they are.

As for in-game exploits, I've been in guilds with a few people who will tell you how they are exploiting in chat. Fortunately, the few guilds I've been in, those people don't last long. I remember the days of a handful of people stacking 9 mundus stones and being godly. Then, their exploit was patched and they became better than average. Some left after that, some learned new exploits. It's the way games have always been. Good players are just good so learn to deal with them, and some players need to find a competitive advantage to appear good. We just need to learn to deal with them as well until the current exploit is patched.

I try and not let a handful of users ruin my experience as ZOS does a great job of that already with certain patches or lack of performance improvements. I'm still going to PVP regardless of if joe-bob-smith-jimmy-boi is exploiting or not, at least til I blue screen or perma-load-screen.

Earthewen wrote: »

I'd like to talk just for a bit about why it is so important to protect the guilty. Many people in this game do not cheat but have been trolled and victimized by those who have through whispers and zone trolling, etc. Many people have been called names for suspecting the cheaters and exploiters, and now many of us know that we were indeed not crazy but accurate in our suspicions.

My question is why do we find it necessary to allow those who have cheated and exploited to maintain their fake "honor" or their ability to maintain, "I'm just a good player" crap? I get it that we don't name and shame in this game, but keeping things completely hidden cannot possibly help in changing the current climate. Don't name people necessarily by real names, but these are pretend names. Why not have a wall of shame for those pretend names? Why protect the victimizers?

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

LMAAO

TequilaFire wrote: »

Because the players need to be proven guilty first.
And we are not the judges, only witnesses.

True, but even when ZOS does prove them guilty all bans are kept secret. A ban list would go a long ways to giving players confidence that ZOS is policing their game instead of the impression we have now of them not caring to do so.

You can not witness what you can not see happening.

I thought this was a Trump troll when I read the header.
No worries, dark net and money will fix 'those' problems.
Heh, works the same here in a fantasy world as world politics. dam that's messed up!

Earthewen wrote: »

enzoisadog wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

I'd like to talk just for a bit about why it is so important to protect the guilty. Many people in this game do not cheat but have been trolled and victimized by those who have through whispers and zone trolling, etc. Many people have been called names for suspecting the cheaters and exploiters, and now many of us know that we were indeed not crazy but accurate in our suspicions.

My question is why do we find it necessary to allow those who have cheated and exploited to maintain their fake "honor" or their ability to maintain, "I'm just a good player" crap? I get it that we don't name and shame in this game, but keeping things completely hidden cannot possibly help in changing the current climate. Don't name people necessarily by real names, but these are pretend names. Why not have a wall of shame for those pretend names? Why protect the victimizers?

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

LMAAO

You must admit, @enzoisadog , that if we knew that ZOS was actually taking action, then the false accusations might actually stop. I don't think they would increase. I think they would decrease. Personally, I'm a little tired of being told we are to be the police of the game. I'd much rather just play than worry about this part. I mean, don't we pay the money so we can PLAY the game instead of policing it?

No, they wouldn't.

Cheating accusations don't stem from a lack of anti-cheating enforcement, then stem from players who massively overvalue their total skill package.

I get called a cheater probably 50% of the time I enter Cyrodiil, which at this point is once or twice a week, and I am on the lower end of the "good" player pool. Other players have to deal with the abuse almost non-stop. So having some complete classless shitbird come on here talking about protecting the guilty when the amount of innocent parties subject to this garbage and utter harassment is so much larger; you can't expect people to take this cereally.