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VMA - RNG is also based off your main character
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Alinhbo_Tyaka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That is such a convoluted theory...
This is clearly just RNG.
There is nothing like that in the backend. It just generates a random number and each weapon is assigned one of those numbers. There is nothing more to it than that.
No seed, not "knowing what you want", what your main resource is or anything.
It is just RNG.
You're no fun you let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.0 -
buttaface✭✭✭✭✭All the junior college math and statistics majors need to just stop with the "anecdotal," "small sample" "where's your data?" nonsense. This isn't a laboratory or a study, and YES, loot table weighting, farming code, massaging, exists in ALL these games, GW1 was the last game to be honest and straightforward about it IME. It's all throughout ESO, and claiming it couldn't go to the extent OP wonders about is what's "anecdotal." It could be easily done based on what an account decons, more used types of weapons, among many other ways.
"RNG" is not accurate when describing any loot tables in any MMO I've ever played over two decades of playing them. This one is not one bit different. To preempt, I don't have a problem with it when it isn't extreme, but it's real, understandable why they do it, and they are -never- going to elaborate on exactly how because that defeats the purpose, more hours played by more players = more likelihood of spending $$.
Don't buy that? Let's go farm some BSW inferno staves. Another way it's apparent is in the Undaunted chests. They skipped or never got around to weighting the chest that all the newer DLC shoulders were added to, so you get a rather even distribution of DLC shoulders. Not so the other two chests or the original DLC shoulders. You will swim in less used, less powerful set shoulders and get a trickle of more desired ones.
More? OK, run a dungeon, any dungeon, for the first time on your account. You will get a pretty random loot table, and most of the decent drops I've gotten out of ESO dungeons come from early runs. Run it again, a little worse. Start farming it, and you will very quickly get shifted into the "junk" loot table where drops of the "zonk" set far outweigh better set drops. You -can- still get any drop from the junk table, it's just far more remote a chance.
Again, it's really NBD and understandable, I'd do the same if I were in the free-wheeling, totally unregulated MMO business, but what OP is claiming, or something similar, simply isn't that outlandish.5 -
eso_lytw8✭✭✭So let's do a quick test....good random number generators create numbers that at least appear to be independent of each other. Meaning if I got head on a flip this does not influence the my chances on the next flip it is still 50-50%, but what what my chances of getting two heads in a row...yes it is 25%.
So if we assume VMA weapons have a 1/12 chance since there are 12 possible drops then what is the probability of getting the same weapon twice in a row? What is it for 3 times in a row?
*I know they do it slightly different loot table different from 1/12th and this differently has not been revealed, but we often we assume it is supposed to be close to 1/12th.< Xbox NA PVE >0 -
Calm_Fury✭✭✭✭✭Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »That is such a convoluted theory...
This is clearly just RNG.
There is nothing like that in the backend. It just generates a random number and each weapon is assigned one of those numbers. There is nothing more to it than that.
No seed, not "knowing what you want", what your main resource is or anything.
It is just RNG.
You're no fun you let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
I have a good theory of my own...
Back before Transmutation and after the Morrowind sustain nerfs I really wanted a Sharpened Maelstrom Bow. So I came up with a ritual:
1. Angled my Xbox in the direction of the Sagitarius constellation
2. Do vMA wearing blue underwear
3. On stage 9, after you beat the crystals you get up and jump 3 times
4. Right before killing the boss, you yell "IIIIIIIITTTTTTT'SSSSS TIMEEEEE" really loud like the guy from UFC.
I guarantee you have 100% drop chance of a Sharpened Bow because that worked that one time for me.4 -
Heelie✭✭✭✭✭People complaining about RNG in vMA and other places after transmutation............Most OwOrated healer of all time0 -
eso_lytw8✭✭✭
I agree the transmute system has gone a long way in helping the player community. Heck just the fact that drops are guaranteed and at one time they were not is a huge help. Trading in dungeons, etc. ZOS has gone a long way to help make the game more enjoyable and rewarding in this aspect. My thanks goes out to them.People complaining about RNG in vMA and other places after transmutation............
The issue I am bringing up is that some players report doing hundreds of runs without getting the weapon they need to transmute. Which if true is extremely indicative of a random generation system not acting in an evenly distributed independent manner like we assume it should. You just can't run it 200 times with a 1/12th chance without getting your weapon unless it is broke and that is the concern. Yes its not broke for some so that creates a lack of empathy. I did it, so should you attitude. For those that it appears can not get a weapon until their seed resets it is discouraging. I know this is theory and not proof, but it perfectly explains the unlikely behaviors we observe.
At one level I even wonder if ZOS knows the system isn't working right and to address this they have built in all the systems to make the issue less painful. Who knows.
< Xbox NA PVE >1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Blue underwear, I used red, yes it might explain it.Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »That is such a convoluted theory...
This is clearly just RNG.
There is nothing like that in the backend. It just generates a random number and each weapon is assigned one of those numbers. There is nothing more to it than that.
No seed, not "knowing what you want", what your main resource is or anything.
It is just RNG.
You're no fun you let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
I have a good theory of my own...
Back before Transmutation and after the Morrowind sustain nerfs I really wanted a Sharpened Maelstrom Bow. So I came up with a ritual:
1. Angled my Xbox in the direction of the Sagitarius constellation
2. Do vMA wearing blue underwear
3. On stage 9, after you beat the crystals you get up and jump 3 times
4. Right before killing the boss, you yell "IIIIIIIITTTTTTT'SSSSS TIMEEEEE" really loud like the guy from UFC.
I guarantee you have 100% drop chance of a Sharpened Bow because that worked that one time for me.
Sacrificing the goat become an mess if you have fans on top of your computerGrinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Before transmute and during the sharpened meta it was two types of weapons, crafted and fantasy.People complaining about RNG in vMA and other places after transmutation............
No you would not get your weapon this year.
Yes you could organize farming runs and pay 1M for an sharpened staff,
This way you have an small chance getting it.
This one prefer to simply been drunk
Then do stuff like vet dlc
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Fvh09NL✭✭✭Although not a significant amount of tests, I did the arena about 45 times, with my mDK main, and got 9 inferno staves. No bad rng at all imo.0 -
Calm_Fury✭✭✭✭✭
I agree the transmute system has gone a long way in helping the player community. Heck just the fact that drops are guaranteed and at one time they were not is a huge help. Trading in dungeons, etc. ZOS has gone a long way to help make the game more enjoyable and rewarding in this aspect. My thanks goes out to them.People complaining about RNG in vMA and other places after transmutation............
The issue I am bringing up is that some players report doing hundreds of runs without getting the weapon they need to transmute. Which if true is extremely indicative of a random generation system not acting in an evenly distributed independent manner like we assume it should. You just can't run it 200 times with a 1/12th chance without getting your weapon unless it is broke and that is the concern. Yes its not broke for some so that creates a lack of empathy. I did it, so should you attitude. For those that it appears can not get a weapon until their seed resets it is discouraging. I know this is theory and not proof, but it perfectly explains the unlikely behaviors we observe.
At one level I even wonder if ZOS knows the system isn't working right and to address this they have built in all the systems to make the issue less painful. Who knows.
The problem is that, almost all of the times that people say they did 200 runs, they actually did 50 and just lost count and think they did 200.
I had a guild mate that would always complain like that. Then he said he NEVER destroyed any of his weapons, ever.
When he counted, we could calculate he did 43 runs, not 250 like he used to boast complaining all the time.
I don't doubt some people will have extreme bad luck, but in general, after 200 REAL runs you will most definitely get all the weapons.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I know plenty of people who got the weapon they needed on their first run. It's just RNG.0 -
Calm_Fury✭✭✭✭✭
Blue underwear, I used red, yes it might explain it.Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »That is such a convoluted theory...
This is clearly just RNG.
There is nothing like that in the backend. It just generates a random number and each weapon is assigned one of those numbers. There is nothing more to it than that.
No seed, not "knowing what you want", what your main resource is or anything.
It is just RNG.
You're no fun you let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
I have a good theory of my own...
Back before Transmutation and after the Morrowind sustain nerfs I really wanted a Sharpened Maelstrom Bow. So I came up with a ritual:
1. Angled my Xbox in the direction of the Sagitarius constellation
2. Do vMA wearing blue underwear
3. On stage 9, after you beat the crystals you get up and jump 3 times
4. Right before killing the boss, you yell "IIIIIIIITTTTTTT'SSSSS TIMEEEEE" really loud like the guy from UFC.
I guarantee you have 100% drop chance of a Sharpened Bow because that worked that one time for me.
Sacrificing the goat become an mess if you have fans on top of your computer
Yes, that was your mistake. Red underwear is to get shields, and nobody wants those...1 -
WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭2019 CP160+ Players be like - VMA's RNG is awful.
2015 VR14 Players - Hold my beer !
Let me tell you awful young buck 😂 your RNG is 1000x better than we had it.
No litteraly !0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That is such a convoluted theory...
This is clearly just RNG.
There is nothing like that in the backend. It just generates a random number and each weapon is assigned one of those numbers. There is nothing more to it than that.
No seed, not "knowing what you want", what your main resource is or anything.
It is just RNG.
I was just wondering how the game defines what your main is? But yes, not only is the sample size to small, but the idea is a real stretch since Zos has no reason to make the RNG even more problematic. Remember, this was all designed when we could not change traits making getting the right weapon times harder than it is now.0 -
cmvet✭✭✭I've run it 5 times during the event. The first 3 runs I got 4 lightening staves out of 17 possible drops.
Like...seriously that's some Fed "RNG"
yeah, statistically bad. So really, getting the lightning staff in non-event is 1 out of 17, which is just under a 6% chance. to get 3 in a row is like 0.02 % chance. So i guess you are either very lucky, or very unlucky depending on how you look at it.Edited by cmvet on August 17, 2019 5:46AM0 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭did i ever tell you the definition of insanityskingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My techniques for farming anything:
1. Type in group (or zone if solo) "Im looking for training (stam set) Resto" or "Looking for weighted (mag set) bow". (lol)
2. Do the Kneel Pray emote and type to RNGesus. Offer your little follower pet or unlucky group mate as a blood sacrifice.
3. Type in chat "F*** this dungeon. I don't even want the staff/bow/sword/gear anymore. I hate this place."
I've been using those in ESO for 30 years now!Edited by D0PAMINE on August 17, 2019 7:59AM0 -
Betty_Booms✭✭✭Most players who have been doing the grind know this:
- You need stam gear? Run with your mag char.
- You need mag gear? Run with your stam char.
And it's not just vMA either, works the same in dungeons and trials ...
I totally agree with this and constantly experience this phenomenon.
I whole heartedly believe there is some tendency to have a greater chance of awarding stam items for mag toons and visa versa.
Happens far to much to be coincidental....3 -
StormChaser3000✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was about to make a similar thread.. Magsorc. Got 2-3 copies of all types of vMA weapons except inferno staff. It's not that I need it.. (my build uses vMA lightning staff), but just wanted to get it for collection. I guess it won't happen since I'm already sick with that place.Edited by StormChaser3000 on August 17, 2019 9:58AM0 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nothing wrong with a little superstition though. Or even some regular stition. Whenever I'm farming a set with friends we start by saying that we don't want that set into the mic so that the ZOS agent in the unmarked van nearby will make sure it drops for us.
Trust no one.0 -
MajBludd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Give vma a token system. Rng for something like vma is just dumb. Beat vma, get a token, get your weapon. The one you want.Edited by MajBludd on August 17, 2019 11:59AM0 -
eso_lytw8✭✭✭I've run it 5 times during the event. The first 3 runs I got 4 lightening staves out of 17 possible drops.
Like...seriously that's some Fed "RNG"
yeah, statistically bad. So really, getting the lightning staff in non-event is 1 out of 17, which is just under a 6% chance. to get 3 in a row is like 0.02 % chance. So i guess you are either very lucky, or very unlucky depending on how you look at it.
When the probabilities are not evenly distributed like we think this is the exact sort of thing that you can see, short strings of completely unlikely events happened often. So for me I ran it my first 16 times I got 3 ice staffs in a , 4 in total. I calculated the chance of this happening to be .06% so we are close, this is 1 in 1728 times. So yes it can happen just not at the frequency we see. Guess what is happened a second time in my 137 total runs, I got 3 shields in a row. So more me it happened 25 times more often then it should have...and here is another person.
The odds of getting 2 in a row are 1 in 144, so yes I likely would have seen this happen since I ran it 137 times....guess what it happened not the one time, not two times, not three times, but 16 times (I keep a spreadsheet of my drops). That is 17 times more than it should have, Go look into the forums there are countless examples of people saying it is fine I got X number of inferno staffs in just a few runs, no problem here.
< Xbox NA PVE >0 -
fastolfv_ESO✭✭✭✭✭this theory has been floating around since vma was introduced, while 30ish runs isnt enough to test real rng i think at the point where hundreds of runs on thousands of people saw the pattern its safe to say its probable0 -
quadraxis666✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe it's RNG, maybe it's anecdotal, but maybe there's something to it. I main a tank. All I wanted was the s+b. After who knows how many runs, i only have 1 s+b, yet I have (this is just things in my home chests & bank that escaped being vendored or deconstructed)
6 ice staff
4 dual wield
4 2 handed
3 inferno staff
4 lightning staff
7 bows
3 rest staff
The trick is to not want the thing you want, then it'll drop.0 -
EmEm_Oh✭✭✭✭✭Does the system check your inventory on your toon...then drops. Would like to know if possible.0 -
Calm_Fury✭✭✭✭✭My techniques for farming anything:
1. Type in group (or zone if solo) "Im looking for training (stam set) Resto" or "Looking for weighted (mag set) bow". (lol)
2. Do the Kneel Pray emote and type to RNGesus. Offer your little follower pet or unlucky group mate as a blood sacrifice.
3. Type in chat "F*** this dungeon. I don't even want the staff/bow/sword/gear anymore. I hate this place."
I've been using those in ESO for 30 years now!
But if you don't use the right underwear color when doing that, it won't work. The game knows...0 -
eso_lytw8✭✭✭Does the system check your inventory on your toon...then drops. Would like to know if possible.
It could, but this is highly unlikely....this would fall in line with conspiracy.
The real answer is much simpler, all random number generators are imperfect, this we know for certain. Humans and human developed technology can not actually generate truly random data. They build algorithms that use a seed (starting number, often date/timestamp) and create a set of numbers that is one 100% predictable. The deal is once the generator creates the same number again the sequence starts over and you get...THE EXACT SAMES NUMBERS.
The possibility we are exploring is that each character has a seed and a predetermined set of random numbers they may or may not include many numbers needed for a certain weapon. This is why people will see 3 ice staff in a row and see far fewer of something else, hopefully not the item you want. It is not until this seed resets that you get a new set of numbers (3-6 months).
There are tests people use to determine if an RNG is good enough for it purpose or not. But to understand all its uses is easy to miss something especially in a game as complex as this. Like across many characters the drops rate appear to be just as desired, but not so within characters or the drops too frequently generate similar numbers (i.e 3 ice staffs or no shields) but across a lot of people or time they look fine.
So no it is not conspiracy it is the fact we humans are imperfect and we build imperfect systems.
< Xbox NA PVE >1
