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VMA - RNG is also based off your main character
DR4GONFL1
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So up until 6 weeks ago my brother and I had never tried VMA even though we have played for years. We are getting into trials and even in a few progression groups so the only items we really need now were the VMA weapons. My brother mains a stam nightblade and I main a sorc but we knew the best way to success was a pet sorc so thats what we each used. We had both heard how hard an inferno staff and the bow where to get and were ready for a grind.
My brother (main is a Stam Nightblade) has completed over 35 runs: He needed the bow, dagger and axe (Flurry)
6 inferno staffs
5 lightning staffs
5 restoration staffs
2 ice staffs
1 dagger
2 axes (non flurry) gotten in his last 4 runs
... and a mix of shields, maces, mauls and shields
I main a Pet Sorc and have completed around 25 runs: I clearly need the Inferno and Lightning
1 Inferno Staffs (gotten in my 3rd to last run)
2 Lightning Staffs (gotten in my 2nd to last run)
1 Restro Staff
6 daggers (all but 1 flurry)
5 axes (all but 1 flurry)
So it seems as if not only do have to defeat VMA and defeat the RNG weapon drops that you also must defeat a system designed to make the grind even more difficult.
Now this maybe just bad RNG but wow the numbers are crazy.
It seems if anything it should be the other way in that you are rewarded for beating hard content which you had to die (many times) and learn the mechanics to beat.
Edited by DR4GONFL1 on August 16, 2019 3:27PM My brother (main is a Stam Nightblade) has completed over 35 runs: He needed the bow, dagger and axe (Flurry)
6 inferno staffs
5 lightning staffs
5 restoration staffs
2 ice staffs
1 dagger
2 axes (non flurry) gotten in his last 4 runs
... and a mix of shields, maces, mauls and shields
I main a Pet Sorc and have completed around 25 runs: I clearly need the Inferno and Lightning
1 Inferno Staffs (gotten in my 3rd to last run)
2 Lightning Staffs (gotten in my 2nd to last run)
1 Restro Staff
6 daggers (all but 1 flurry)
5 axes (all but 1 flurry)
So it seems as if not only do have to defeat VMA and defeat the RNG weapon drops that you also must defeat a system designed to make the grind even more difficult.
Now this maybe just bad RNG but wow the numbers are crazy.
It seems if anything it should be the other way in that you are rewarded for beating hard content which you had to die (many times) and learn the mechanics to beat.
8
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Calm_Fury✭✭✭✭✭That is such a convoluted theory...
This is clearly just RNG.
There is nothing like that in the backend. It just generates a random number and each weapon is assigned one of those numbers. There is nothing more to it than that.
No seed, not "knowing what you want", what your main resource is or anything.
It is just RNG.23 -
DR4GONFL1✭✭✭✭That is such a convoluted theory...
This is clearly just RNG.
There is nothing like that in the backend. It just generates a random number and each weapon is assigned one of those numbers. There is nothing more to it than that.
No seed, not "knowing what you want", what your main resource is or anything.
It is just RNG.
I'm sure your right, I guess after awhile as we were each getting the weapons the other needed it just became a thing we experienced. I was interested if anyone else had thought about it.1 -
Odovacar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I know its RNG but I swear in my mind that's how it goes most of the time...main a stam you get showered with staves vica versa...8 -
OwN_Reflex✭✭Oh boy where was this Voodoo when vMA first launched and I was doing Flawless runs NOT even getting a weapon to drop 😂😂0
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kind_hero✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My main is a magicka nightblade. On my 1st run with my mag sorc I got the flurry set (nirn mace and precise sword), and on the 2nd run, (during the event) I got an infused lightning staff and an other flurry set (precise dagger and sword).
I am trying to finish a 3rd run, but I kind of got fed up with this nonsense of crem guards and random ** ruining my runs for some 2-3% dps increase which I do not use that much anyway.
But in conclusion, I do not think your main char matters regarding loot.[PC/EU] Tamriel Hero, Stormproof, Grand Master Crafter0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭60 runs, with 17 possible weapon drops in many different combinations and traits is hardly a valid sample size. When you take into account the multiple different pairings of the dual wield and sword and shield combinations, 60 runs is an incredibly small sample size.
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Berserkerkitten✭✭✭✭As others pointed out, it's all RNG. My main is a Stam DK, who seems to mostly loot staves in vMA. Which is fine. If life gives you staves, roll a staff user.
Nobody cares about your endless list of terribly-named characters.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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This, you stop grinding once you get the weapons you need. some get that on first run, they never complain, then you have the ones with bad luck who tell their tale.That is such a convoluted theory...
This is clearly just RNG.
There is nothing like that in the backend. It just generates a random number and each weapon is assigned one of those numbers. There is nothing more to it than that.
No seed, not "knowing what you want", what your main resource is or anything.
It is just RNG.
Its ZoS we are talking about here, the guys who has been unable to make an functional dungeon finder, then make an battleground finder who is just as bad and the two mess each other up so people could not queue for BG the day the new dungeons dropped.
Having an system who kind of finding your main character based on recent trials or max achievement points and then adjust the loot table. High chance vMA would just drop shields or something.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I know gear type is just RNG, but it doesn't help the 'skewed RNG' conspiracy theories when certain drops are notorious for their rarity *cough* BSW inferno
Regarding vMA, I've gotten all weapons, but amongst them, there's an overwhelming amount of restoration staves and swords. The coveted inferno took about 20-30 runs, if I remember correctly. 0 -
DR4GONFL1✭✭✭✭60 runs, with 17 possible weapon drops in many different combinations and traits is hardly a valid sample size. When you take into account the multiple different pairings of the dual wield and sword and shield combinations, 60 runs is an incredibly small sample size.
It is a small sample size I know, I was just curious to see if it could even be a thing although I agree with most its just RNG. I'm lucky to have gotten what I have as I have read others posting the bad luck they have had in VMA.0 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That is such a convoluted theory...
This is clearly just RNG.
There is nothing like that in the backend. It just generates a random number and each weapon is assigned one of those numbers. There is nothing more to it than that.
No seed, not "knowing what you want", what your main resource is or anything.
It is just RNG.
No it's not, ZOS stated themselves in some patch notes years ago that they lowered the drop rate on bows and restos. That RNG is weighted.EU PC0 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That is such a convoluted theory...
This is clearly just RNG.
There is nothing like that in the backend. It just generates a random number and each weapon is assigned one of those numbers. There is nothing more to it than that.
No seed, not "knowing what you want", what your main resource is or anything.
It is just RNG.
No it's not, ZOS stated themselves in some patch notes years ago that they lowered the drop rate on bows and restos. That RNG is weighted.
completely different arguments.
Yes, different weapons have different drop rates.
No, the drop rates don't change based on what character you're running it with.
You're conflating data.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Xalvakka's Scourge - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger71,345 achievement points1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes its weighted, but game does not know that you want. You simply stop farming then you get it.That is such a convoluted theory...
This is clearly just RNG.
There is nothing like that in the backend. It just generates a random number and each weapon is assigned one of those numbers. There is nothing more to it than that.
No seed, not "knowing what you want", what your main resource is or anything.
It is just RNG.
No it's not, ZOS stated themselves in some patch notes years ago that they lowered the drop rate on bows and restos. That RNG is weighted.
I know SPC was weighted against. I did more than 50 runs, probably close to 100, I know I never got any SPC jewelry outside of the named necklace as I mostly ran in normal and don't have any blue SPC jewelry.
Got resto staff and jewelry of the key fragments.
We should have an drop logger like the crown crate logger.
It would be very nice to spot weighing.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most players who have been doing the grind know this:
- You need stam gear? Run with your mag char.
- You need mag gear? Run with your stam char.
And it's not just vMA either, works the same in dungeons and trials ...
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tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've NEVER cleared vMA on a stamina toon.
I've cleared it hundreds of times on a magicka toon.
For all intents and purposes... I have equal numbers of destro staves/resto staves/bows/1-handers/2-handers/etc...
I only keep 5 or 6 of each type, I've deconstructed a whole bunch of them, but I've never had an "abundance" of stamina weapons, which I should have if this "theory" about getting "opposite drops" is true.
SMH at conspiracy theorists.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Xalvakka's Scourge - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger71,345 achievement points1 -
Dark_Lord_Kuro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So up until 6 weeks ago my brother and I had never tried VMA even though we have played for years. We are getting into trials and even in a few progression groups so the only items we really need now were the VMA weapons. My brother mains a stam nightblade and I main a sorc but we knew the best way to success was a pet sorc so thats what we each used. We had both heard how hard an inferno staff and the bow where to get and were ready for a grind.
My brother (main is a Stam Nightblade) has completed over 35 runs: He needed the bow, dagger and axe (Flurry)
6 inferno staffs
5 lightning staffs
5 restoration staffs
2 ice staffs
1 dagger
2 axes (non flurry) gotten in his last 4 runs
... and a mix of shields, maces, mauls and shields
I main a Pet Sorc and have completed around 25 runs: I clearly need the Inferno and Lightning
1 Inferno Staffs (gotten in my 3rd to last run)
2 Lightning Staffs (gotten in my 2nd to last run)
1 Restro Staff
6 daggers (all but 1 flurry)
5 axes (all but 1 flurry)
So it seems as if not only do have to defeat VMA and defeat the RNG weapon drops that you also must defeat a system designed to make the grind even more difficult.
Now this maybe just bad RNG but wow the numbers are crazy.
It seems if anything it should be the other way in that you are rewarded for beating hard content which you had to die (many times) and learn the mechanics to beat.
And how would the game determine wich of my 18 character is my main?2 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've run it 5 times during the event. The first 3 runs I got 4 lightening staves out of 17 possible drops.
Like...seriously that's some Fed "RNG"Beta tester November 20130 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That is such a convoluted theory...
This is clearly just RNG.
There is nothing like that in the backend. It just generates a random number and each weapon is assigned one of those numbers. There is nothing more to it than that.
No seed, not "knowing what you want", what your main resource is or anything.
It is just RNG.
No it's not, ZOS stated themselves in some patch notes years ago that they lowered the drop rate on bows and restos. That RNG is weighted.
completely different arguments.
Yes, different weapons have different drop rates.
No, the drop rates don't change based on what character you're running it with.
You're conflating data.
If one thing is weighted, another might be as well. And it's always funny with people being so sure as you are about something you most likely has no clue about. Or do you happen to be a developer at ZOS?
Like SirAndy said, the "run it on Stam to get mag weapons" rumour has been there since the beginning. And I would certainly not be surprised if it was true.EU PC2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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This, and who need it of the 18, note it might not be on character in current setup.Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »So up until 6 weeks ago my brother and I had never tried VMA even though we have played for years. We are getting into trials and even in a few progression groups so the only items we really need now were the VMA weapons. My brother mains a stam nightblade and I main a sorc but we knew the best way to success was a pet sorc so thats what we each used. We had both heard how hard an inferno staff and the bow where to get and were ready for a grind.
My brother (main is a Stam Nightblade) has completed over 35 runs: He needed the bow, dagger and axe (Flurry)
6 inferno staffs
5 lightning staffs
5 restoration staffs
2 ice staffs
1 dagger
2 axes (non flurry) gotten in his last 4 runs
... and a mix of shields, maces, mauls and shields
I main a Pet Sorc and have completed around 25 runs: I clearly need the Inferno and Lightning
1 Inferno Staffs (gotten in my 3rd to last run)
2 Lightning Staffs (gotten in my 2nd to last run)
1 Restro Staff
6 daggers (all but 1 flurry)
5 axes (all but 1 flurry)
So it seems as if not only do have to defeat VMA and defeat the RNG weapon drops that you also must defeat a system designed to make the grind even more difficult.
Now this maybe just bad RNG but wow the numbers are crazy.
It seems if anything it should be the other way in that you are rewarded for beating hard content which you had to die (many times) and learn the mechanics to beat.
And how would the game determine wich of my 18 character is my main?
Or how meta switched from bow to DW?
And yes main has it, second is healer, but you have magic necro khajiit you want to make stamina and gear up.
From some who is unable to get an dungeon finder to work.
Tinfoil armor would be an good outfit style.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭That is such a convoluted theory...
This is clearly just RNG.
There is nothing like that in the backend. It just generates a random number and each weapon is assigned one of those numbers. There is nothing more to it than that.
No seed, not "knowing what you want", what your main resource is or anything.
It is just RNG.
Actually it’s more that. There is no such thing as RNG or Random. In programming speak Random MUST be defined and have clear values else you run into simple bugs like null exceptions, etc that lead to crashes.
Furthermore, pseudo random number generators can also be weighted which means certain numbers or combos of such numbers can have a greater or lesser chance of being drawn. This is how the NIST found vulnerabilities in Intel and AMD pseudo random number generators that could allow someone to accurately guess numbers thus weaken encryption that was later patched with micro code and motherboard BIOS updates.
It’s a certainty that ZOS probably have certain numbers weighted to appear more often or less often specifically for the purpose of creating scarcity, and giving folks reason to run said content.
Nothing is ever truly random
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Enemy-of-Coldharbour✭✭✭✭✭
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Silivren (Silly) Thalionwen | Altmer Templar | Magicka | 9-Trait Master Crafter/Jeweler | Master Angler | PVE Main - Killed by U35
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PC/NA - CP 2560+1 -
DR4GONFL1✭✭✭✭Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »So up until 6 weeks ago my brother and I had never tried VMA even though we have played for years. We are getting into trials and even in a few progression groups so the only items we really need now were the VMA weapons. My brother mains a stam nightblade and I main a sorc but we knew the best way to success was a pet sorc so thats what we each used. We had both heard how hard an inferno staff and the bow where to get and were ready for a grind.
My brother (main is a Stam Nightblade) has completed over 35 runs: He needed the bow, dagger and axe (Flurry)
6 inferno staffs
5 lightning staffs
5 restoration staffs
2 ice staffs
1 dagger
2 axes (non flurry) gotten in his last 4 runs
... and a mix of shields, maces, mauls and shields
I main a Pet Sorc and have completed around 25 runs: I clearly need the Inferno and Lightning
1 Inferno Staffs (gotten in my 3rd to last run)
2 Lightning Staffs (gotten in my 2nd to last run)
1 Restro Staff
6 daggers (all but 1 flurry)
5 axes (all but 1 flurry)
So it seems as if not only do have to defeat VMA and defeat the RNG weapon drops that you also must defeat a system designed to make the grind even more difficult.
Now this maybe just bad RNG but wow the numbers are crazy.
It seems if anything it should be the other way in that you are rewarded for beating hard content which you had to die (many times) and learn the mechanics to beat.
And how would the game determine wich of my 18 character is my main?
I only said the numbers were crazy as far as my brother and I were concerned. I believe if this was the case having 18 characters would not apply as you clearly have more than most and would probably cover most of all categories but on another note 18 characters is pretty impressive thats a lot of work.Edited by DR4GONFL1 on August 16, 2019 4:16PM0 -
eso_lytw8✭✭✭I've posted at length about this in other threads, so let me quickly summarize. As many have pointed out RNG is not random it is a human attempt to generate random like sequences that are 100% predictable if you know the seed (starting value) and the algorithm. They are all flawed, the question is are they flawed enough to really matter.
There is a fair amount of examples that demonstrate the flaw may indeed be significant in boss drops resulting in probabilities that are not equal for an individual characters. So its not your "main" it is whatever character you are on. Some people will get reasonable even distribution while for some reasons others will not.
Its why you will see people that get "a lot" of one weapon, sure this can happen in an equally weighted random number system just not in the frequencies we observe, i.e. like what the OP shares and like countless others have shared as well. It just does not happen this often if the weights are truly equal and the same for all of us.
The good news is try running it on another character, you aren't guaranteed to have a higher probability for the weapon you want but at least it gives you a different chance then what you are seeing on the one you are using.
The probabilities appear to reset after 3-6 months which is why I believe many players report after 100+ runs I got my inferno staff....and would you believe a second one dropped right after.
I don't think any of this is intended at all, it is extremely hard to detect. Notice all the people saying it is RNG, we know by theory that the RNG system is not random so no it is not RNG, but people just dismiss it as something that could happen under an equally random system.
Lastly the probabilities appear to be different for weapons showing up for getting on the leaderboard mail system, which makes sense, it uses an entirely different seed from your character. So if you can get on leaderboard (really hard right now) you might get one that way.
< Xbox NA PVE >0 -
Calm_Fury✭✭✭✭✭That is such a convoluted theory...
This is clearly just RNG.
There is nothing like that in the backend. It just generates a random number and each weapon is assigned one of those numbers. There is nothing more to it than that.
No seed, not "knowing what you want", what your main resource is or anything.
It is just RNG.
I'm sure your right, I guess after awhile as we were each getting the weapons the other needed it just became a thing we experienced. I was interested if anyone else had thought about it.
Humans have a tendency to see patters everywhere. I notice some patterns too, but I know it is just my brain tricking me.
Do enough runs, like 500, 1000, and you will see that all weapons drop really close to the calculated probabilities.
Again, it is just RNG. Your brain is trying to make sense of it but it is just that.0 -
Calm_Fury✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »That is such a convoluted theory...
This is clearly just RNG.
There is nothing like that in the backend. It just generates a random number and each weapon is assigned one of those numbers. There is nothing more to it than that.
No seed, not "knowing what you want", what your main resource is or anything.
It is just RNG.
Actually it’s more that. There is no such thing as RNG or Random. In programming speak Random MUST be defined and have clear values else you run into simple bugs like null exceptions, etc that lead to crashes.
Furthermore, pseudo random number generators can also be weighted which means certain numbers or combos of such numbers can have a greater or lesser chance of being drawn. This is how the NIST found vulnerabilities in Intel and AMD pseudo random number generators that could allow someone to accurately guess numbers thus weaken encryption that was later patched with micro code and motherboard BIOS updates.
It’s a certainty that ZOS probably have certain numbers weighted to appear more often or less often specifically for the purpose of creating scarcity, and giving folks reason to run said content.
Nothing is ever truly random
You said a bunch of true statements in general but they don't necessarily apply to games or to ESO.
Pseudorandom numbers may not be truly random but they are definitely more than enough for games. If you are working on a super secret project that needs super security, this might be a concern. For choosing vMA weapons? Not so much.
And of course ZOS can weight numbers. A programmer can just code that the function will return 1 every time and everyone will always get the same weapon. Doesn't mean that, because they can, they do.
This discussion happened dozens of times in this forum already. Every time someone comes with a tinfoil theory of how to get a specific weapon and someone with a huge amount of runs and tracked drops weights in, we see that the weapons will drop very closely to the calculated chances.
I've seen people argue that there is "luck seed" when you log in, that if you max resource is Stam you get Mag weapons and the other way around, people saying that going Flawless increases the chances of Staves and Bows, that using sigils decrease your chances and so on... In the end, those "theories" all get disproven by just having a big enough sample size.
It used to be that the ZOS first had a random number for a type of weapon (Like One Hand, Two Hand) and another for type, but they changed that a while back so now each weapon has the exact same chance to drop.1 -
Calm_Fury✭✭✭✭✭That is such a convoluted theory...
This is clearly just RNG.
There is nothing like that in the backend. It just generates a random number and each weapon is assigned one of those numbers. There is nothing more to it than that.
No seed, not "knowing what you want", what your main resource is or anything.
It is just RNG.
No it's not, ZOS stated themselves in some patch notes years ago that they lowered the drop rate on bows and restos. That RNG is weighted.
Those are different things. They actually explained what happened.
The algorithm used to first decide what type of weapon you got (no weights here), but only considered things like Resto Staff, Destro Staff. If you got a Resto Staff type, you had 100% chance of getting a Resto because that was the only weapon of that kind. If you got Destro, you had 33% chance to get one of each.
So yes, back then, because ot his, you had a higher chance of getting a Resto.
But then they changed so that the calculations now find each specific type of weapon. So instead of type, it just considers Resto, Inferno, Lightning, Ice, Dagger, Axe... So everything has the same probability now.
It is not weighted in the sense the conspiracy theorists are claiming that ZOS decides everyone wants an Inferno so they just code Ice to drop more. That doesn't happen.
Anything else is just "I feel like this happens to me" or small sample size. Do 1000 runs and I guarantee you that all the weapons will drop at very close to the same rate.0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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True.Icy_Waffles wrote: »Literally just RNG.
...
...and thus all your prayers for the drop yopu needed...
...are proof that the gods hate humans and want to see us suffer!
3
