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Just played PvP, and for the first time since the game was released, I actually enjoyed it...
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Elusiin✭✭✭✭✭It’s a lot more friendly to casuals than it was. OP dots loaded onto strong skills, cast times on ults, lowered overall healing for stamina.
Again, I would argue that even non-casual players benefit from this update, as imbalanced meta builds are (hopefully) dead. This means DoT builds can be on par with burst damage builds, and both can be countered through purge, roll dodge, heals, and damage shields. I have played PvP, but in the past only meta builds could compete. I dislike imbalanced meta builds and 5.1.5 has done away with them, just another reason why I enjoy the state of PvP.
Except the type of build you're playing is becoming the meta unbalanced build. You're seeing nothing BUT DoT builds now. Pretty unbalanced and meta.
If you dislike "unbalanced meta" so much, maybe it's time you drop your build, eh? Because, it hasn't "done away" with meta, it's just made your build meta. But you dislike that.
Quite the circular logic you got here...
I have not been overpowered by DoTs yet. I just run my class purge ability and use it during fights. It seems easy to counter DoTs. Now if you're in a 1vX situation, of course it's going to hurt, but again you're in a 1vX situation. Just like with direct damage from multiple enemies, so too will DoTs. Furthermore, it's standardized and all classes have access to different variations of DoTs, not a singular set build on it. So I can't agree with you when you say it's becoming an unbalanced meta.4 -
Elusiin✭✭✭✭✭The salt is awesome
Xbox here, not looking forward to the changes but for now I keep an open mind and I hope I will have the same experience as you. I think many people here want to have a bad experience because on paper the changes look bad but I want to play it before making up my mind.
That's the mindset I decided to take for the new changes. After they nerfed ranged on abilities on the PTS, as well as many other things I used to use, I took a few weeks off. But coming back into with a fresh perspective, I have found I actually enjoy the changes.3 -
labambao✭✭✭✭Nerftheforums wrote: »Nerftheforums wrote: »When someone with 0 hours experience tells you pvp is now playable, finally easier to react, that he/she can compete, you know you just killed your pvper base...
I'm happy if we lose your kind of "base". This kind of speech says so much about you (mr. I know it better and I represent the playerbase). If you would speak only for yourself and friends I would'n be happy for your dissatisfaction.
Happy to lose people like hexys, miruku, kodi, Sniker, pelican, Kristopher, Jeff, Ani, Jules, zele?
Who is that guys? Their names sounds like they play that pc joke and not with controller5 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭This thread is a salt mine for kids posing as grown adults.
Im looking forward to the patch.0 -
Ash_In_My_Sujamma✭✭✭✭✭Nerftheforums wrote: »When someone with 0 hours experience tells you pvp is now playable, finally easier to react, that he/she can compete, you know you just killed your pvper base...
I'm happy if we lose your kind of "base". This kind of speech says so much about you (mr. I know it better and I represent the playerbase). If you would speak only for yourself and friends I would'n be happy for your dissatisfaction.
This is so bitter I cringed3 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »Nerftheforums wrote: »When someone with 0 hours experience tells you pvp is now playable, finally easier to react, that he/she can compete, you know you just killed your pvper base...
I'm happy if we lose your kind of "base". This kind of speech says so much about you (mr. I know it better and I represent the playerbase). If you would speak only for yourself and friends I would'n be happy for your dissatisfaction.
This is so bitter I cringed
It's also very sweet. It only shows that the whole "base" was only reliant on overpowered meta and couldn't really play the game for crap. If you're a truly good player that enjoys the game and doesn't just want to flex absent RL ego, you'll adapt and still do well. True warriors never give up.
I wholeheartedly support and agree with OP and would love to see this current system improve further, for the better.Edited by Nyladreas on August 16, 2019 11:32AM7 -
Ash_In_My_Sujamma✭✭✭✭✭Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »Nerftheforums wrote: »When someone with 0 hours experience tells you pvp is now playable, finally easier to react, that he/she can compete, you know you just killed your pvper base...
I'm happy if we lose your kind of "base". This kind of speech says so much about you (mr. I know it better and I represent the playerbase). If you would speak only for yourself and friends I would'n be happy for your dissatisfaction.
This is so bitter I cringed
It's also very sweet. It only shows that the whole "base" was only reliant on overpowered meta and couldn't really play the game for crap. If you're a truly good player that enjoys the game and doesn't just want to flex absent RL ego, you'll adapt and still do well. True warriors never give up.
I wholeheartedly support and agree with OP and would love to see this current system improve further, for the better.
2 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »Nerftheforums wrote: »When someone with 0 hours experience tells you pvp is now playable, finally easier to react, that he/she can compete, you know you just killed your pvper base...
I'm happy if we lose your kind of "base". This kind of speech says so much about you (mr. I know it better and I represent the playerbase). If you would speak only for yourself and friends I would'n be happy for your dissatisfaction.
This is so bitter I cringed
It's also very sweet. It only shows that the whole "base" was only reliant on overpowered meta and couldn't really play the game for crap. If you're a truly good player that enjoys the game and doesn't just want to flex absent RL ego, you'll adapt and still do well. True warriors never give up.
I wholeheartedly support and agree with OP and would love to see this current system improve further, for the better.
Xbox player here- I read this and I’m proud to say I don’t follow the meta lmao.
Also ye, I agree with this too.3 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So you haven’t PVPd in years and now you feel qualified to tell all of us that the game is brilliant now? I’m sure your intentions aren’t bad but I don’t think you’ve got a clue what PVP is actually like most of the time. Glad you’re having fun at least...2 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I suppose it depends on what you like.
Before; DOTs seemed more like a supplement to damage. I'd use them to layer up to make my spammable more effective while building for more recovery or resists or speed or whatever.
Now; DOTs are strong enough to be the primary attack stacked all together. You don't really need a spammable but you need a way to get the DOTs off you. Thats what I think is a problem. Its pretty lopsided which classes have a cleanse available.
I think efficient purge should be made even cheaper, to around the cost of ER, maybe just under that cost as it only removes 3 DOTs and doesn't have the HOT pool, and make it self only. Take the other, more expensive purge and keep it as a group cleanse at a high cost. Everyone then has a modest counter to DOTs.
There still would be the "problem" of how now, greater numbers is more assuredly going to win. Even with everyone having a purge; what happens is you start fighting; maybe even numbers, and you cleanse DOTs and are doing a lot better, but more and more of them are showing up and sticking DOTs, so even with purge/ER you are removing them, but you cannot get off your back foot. You can significantly be outplaying but there's just too much set and forget damage coming in. I put "problem" in quotes because that is an interpretation I suppose depending on if you think skill should be able to overcome numbers. Many think more numbers should mean you win but I think that is a rather myopic view on it.
EDIT: Oh. But the rest of the OP on performance being better and all that is complete hogwash. There's not even room for interpretation.Edited by technohic on August 16, 2019 12:16PM4 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Say what you will about the changes, the PvP is finally balanced and more tactical now. You can actually react to combat instead of being spammed down in 2 seconds by ganking nightblade. Roll dodging works, purging works, blastbones isn't trash anymore, I honestly am enjoying PvP for once. Also I have noticed the game performs A LOT BETTER.
Bravo ZoS, you've won me back.
Yeah I agree. It's in the best spot I've seen it in months (maybe years). Because as you say - you can actually react now instead of just being obliterated instantly by some ridiculous burst rotation on top of piles of area of effects. Defensive tactics, clever retreats etc. seem to actually be possible now.
I suspect most of these complaints stem from players in CP campaigns who used to run circles around objects breaking LoS as people tried to kill them while waiting for their ultimate to build so they could unload instant death kills on them. For some reason they equate this silliness to amazing, skillful and fun gameplay (don't ask me why). So I'm not sorry to see that kind of stupidity go extinct if that's what all the fuss is about over DoTs.
But I can say from experience this update is a huge improvement over what it was. I only wish I was seeing the same kinds of improvements in performance you are.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »Nerftheforums wrote: »When someone with 0 hours experience tells you pvp is now playable, finally easier to react, that he/she can compete, you know you just killed your pvper base...
I'm happy if we lose your kind of "base". This kind of speech says so much about you (mr. I know it better and I represent the playerbase). If you would speak only for yourself and friends I would'n be happy for your dissatisfaction.
This is so bitter I cringed
It's also very sweet. It only shows that the whole "base" was only reliant on overpowered meta and couldn't really play the game for crap. If you're a truly good player that enjoys the game and doesn't just want to flex absent RL ego, you'll adapt and still do well. True warriors never give up.
I wholeheartedly support and agree with OP and would love to see this current system improve further, for the better.
I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head here.
They disguise it by calling it "fast paced combat" (when in fact the pace of combat is the same) but in reality what they really mean to say is they can no longer slaughter their opponents with their cheesy build. They actually have to deal with players who can fight back now - and that's a good thing and healthy for the game. Their so-called "fast paced combat" was lacking to put it mildly.Edited by Jeremy on August 16, 2019 1:49PM7 -
this thread is hilarious. i also share the ops opinion and also feel things were taken in the right direction. i wish they fixed real problems like giving away free necros as a bug and posting they dont care people exploited. thats a real problem imho.
so what if you follow the meta and so what if you dont. i personally like the direction they are going as well as many others. the whine fiesta is pretty much only in forums and streamer babies.
there are things everyone doesnt like... aka - my class got nerfed! But its ok because its not real life and they are doing it to balance other players also saying... my class got nerfed! so until the circle of complainers disappears, its very obvious it will only get worse.
people, its a game. smoke a joint, relax and realize your class wont be the meta every patch. letting others get their turns is fun because sharing is caring so stop magsorcing out and pull up those big kid pants and accept it as its still the future of the game whether you like it or not. and if you feel your the majority......it sucks to find out your not.4 -
BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭LolZerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.1 -
Bosov✭✭✭✭✭Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »Nerftheforums wrote: »When someone with 0 hours experience tells you pvp is now playable, finally easier to react, that he/she can compete, you know you just killed your pvper base...
I'm happy if we lose your kind of "base". This kind of speech says so much about you (mr. I know it better and I represent the playerbase). If you would speak only for yourself and friends I would'n be happy for your dissatisfaction.
This is so bitter I cringed
It's also very sweet. It only shows that the whole "base" was only reliant on overpowered meta and couldn't really play the game for crap. If you're a truly good player that enjoys the game and doesn't just want to flex absent RL ego, you'll adapt and still do well. True warriors never give up.
I wholeheartedly support and agree with OP and would love to see this current system improve further, for the better.
I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head here.
They disguise it by calling it "fast paced combat" (when in fact the pace of combat is the same) but in reality what they really mean to say is they can no longer slaughter their opponents with their cheesy build. They actually have to deal with players who can fight back now - and that's a good thing and healthy for the game. Their so-called "fast paced combat" was lacking to put it mildly.
Wait.. what? Placing one or multiple dots on someone and watching those dots tick is considered fighting back now?
When im running around a rock because you and your friends are trying to kill me with multple people but if you dont even bother keeping your buffs up you deserve to be killed if i get my burst combo off. Usually it doesnt matter if you keep your buffs up since you most likely will have a healer to save you but that isnt the point really. I dont think you deserve to kill me when you place a dot on me and will just afk wait for me to die.
When you say fast paced combat i think of something like... You attack me, i see your attack but i dodge roll to avoid your attack. I react to what you do. I will try to turn and attack, lower your health and when your health is low enough i will go for the combo to get a kill.
What i dont think when i hear fast paced combat is multiple dots just slowly lowering my health until i die...
But hey... good for you. Enjoy the patch. Place some dots on those nasty rock runners and wait for the AP. Must be very exciting gameplay. Ever considered streaming? I bet people would pay to watch some top quality gameplay like that!
Xbox One - EU - GT : Bosov
PC - EU - @Bosov91
ESO Highight :
https://twitter.com/SlashLurk/status/8950683392733102083 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nerftheforums wrote: »Nerftheforums wrote: »When someone with 0 hours experience tells you pvp is now playable, finally easier to react, that he/she can compete, you know you just killed your pvper base...
I'm happy if we lose your kind of "base". This kind of speech says so much about you (mr. I know it better and I represent the playerbase). If you would speak only for yourself and friends I would'n be happy for your dissatisfaction.
Happy to lose people like hexys, miruku, kodi, Sniker, pelican, Kristopher, Jeff, Ani, Jules, zele?
I saw Zele last night or the night b40 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling7 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Being in console land, I haven't played it yet, but I suspect I'll still be able to enjoy it.
That being said, it should be obvious that enabling high DoT damage, previously solely available to melee bleed setups, at max range is going to be very tough on everyone whether they're playing alone or just temporarily alone and just barely in range of several players.
I didn't enjoy trying to counter 2-3 bleed builds at melee range, and I don't expect I'll enjoy 12 stacked DoTs cast at max range from 4 players who saw me off in the distance.1 -
Vandril✭✭✭✭Nerftheforums wrote: »When someone with 0 hours experience tells you pvp is now playable, finally easier to react, that he/she can compete, you know you just killed your pvper base...
I think you misunderstood the thread title. It's the first time they've enjoyed the PvP, not the first time they've played the PvP. In your defense, though, that first comma in the title should actually be AFTER the "and".
Isn't, "and for the first time since the game was released, I actually enjoyed it", an independent clause, therefore justifies the use of a comma before the and?
Huh, actually, you're right. I guess it could be written that way, but it just seems more awkward to me. I'd think it'd be more intuitive if it was written like:
"Just played PvP and, for the first time since the game was released, I actually enjoyed it..."
Because then, if you remove the additional information between the commas, you end up with a complete sentence that expresses both points (that you just played pvp and actually enjoyed it) clearly:
"Just played PvP and I actually enjoyed it..."
In addition, placing the comma after the "and" also makes it clear that the information between the commas is a dependent clause to your second independent clause about having "enjoyed it" rather than the first independent clause about having "played PvP".
You could also consider using a semicolon instead of a comma and the "and". Semicolon's have two uses: to be used as a "supercomma" when conjoining two clauses when at least one of those clauses already includes a comma, or to be used to connect two clauses together in place of a coordinating junction (ie. your ", and"). So your statement would end up like this:
"Just played PvP; for the first time since the game was released, I actually enjoyed it..."
Here's a reference I often use when I forget exactly how semicolons function, in case you're interested. They're really handy. When I learned how to use them properly in college, I found myself using them more and more often in even casual writing.
As-written, though, your thread title still technically works. It's kind of a non-issue either way, I suppose.
I apologize if this came across as condescending or anything like that. It wasn't my intention; I just wanted to reply thoroughly.Edited by Vandril on August 16, 2019 8:50PM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »Nerftheforums wrote: »When someone with 0 hours experience tells you pvp is now playable, finally easier to react, that he/she can compete, you know you just killed your pvper base...
I'm happy if we lose your kind of "base". This kind of speech says so much about you (mr. I know it better and I represent the playerbase). If you would speak only for yourself and friends I would'n be happy for your dissatisfaction.
This is so bitter I cringed
It's also very sweet. It only shows that the whole "base" was only reliant on overpowered meta and couldn't really play the game for crap. If you're a truly good player that enjoys the game and doesn't just want to flex absent RL ego, you'll adapt and still do well. True warriors never give up.
I wholeheartedly support and agree with OP and would love to see this current system improve further, for the better.
I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head here.
They disguise it by calling it "fast paced combat" (when in fact the pace of combat is the same) but in reality what they really mean to say is they can no longer slaughter their opponents with their cheesy build. They actually have to deal with players who can fight back now - and that's a good thing and healthy for the game. Their so-called "fast paced combat" was lacking to put it mildly.
Wait.. what? Placing one or multiple dots on someone and watching those dots tick is considered fighting back now?
When im running around a rock because you and your friends are trying to kill me with multple people but if you dont even bother keeping your buffs up you deserve to be killed if i get my burst combo off. Usually it doesnt matter if you keep your buffs up since you most likely will have a healer to save you but that isnt the point really. I dont think you deserve to kill me when you place a dot on me and will just afk wait for me to die.
When you say fast paced combat i think of something like... You attack me, i see your attack but i dodge roll to avoid your attack. I react to what you do. I will try to turn and attack, lower your health and when your health is low enough i will go for the combo to get a kill.
What i dont think when i hear fast paced combat is multiple dots just slowly lowering my health until i die...
But hey... good for you. Enjoy the patch. Place some dots on those nasty rock runners and wait for the AP. Must be very exciting gameplay. Ever considered streaming? I bet people would pay to watch some top quality gameplay like that!
I do battlegrounds. I rarely do Cyrodil - and when I do it's the none CP variety. So me and my friends are not trying to chase you around the rock. That was an assumption I made based on the comments I have read regarding the kind of playstyle these DoTs have frustrated. And from your reaction it seems I guessed correctly.
But to respond: yeah - placing DoTs on people is certainly a way to fight back and sounds like an effective counter to those who like to use LoS as a defense. You may think it's unfair - or what ever it is your issue is with it - but I don't consider playing ring around the rosy with some rock to be interesting or engaging game play so I'm not saddened to see it effectively countered. As to me personally, it was never something I really had to deal with as that seems mostly like a CP tactic. I rarely see it done in the none CP variety - and when it is it's often not very effective. So don't make the mistake of believing just because I think the style of play is silly that means I was personally troubled by "rock runners". Because I wasn't.
In regards to your notion of fast paced combat - you can still doge roll and attack others with your combos when they are low on health. This patch has not effected that in any way. So your "fast paced combat" is still intact. So I don't understand what your complaint even is.Edited by Jeremy on August 16, 2019 10:23PM6 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »Nerftheforums wrote: »When someone with 0 hours experience tells you pvp is now playable, finally easier to react, that he/she can compete, you know you just killed your pvper base...
I'm happy if we lose your kind of "base". This kind of speech says so much about you (mr. I know it better and I represent the playerbase). If you would speak only for yourself and friends I would'n be happy for your dissatisfaction.
This is so bitter I cringed
It's also very sweet. It only shows that the whole "base" was only reliant on overpowered meta and couldn't really play the game for crap. If you're a truly good player that enjoys the game and doesn't just want to flex absent RL ego, you'll adapt and still do well. True warriors never give up.
I wholeheartedly support and agree with OP and would love to see this current system improve further, for the better.
I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head here.
They disguise it by calling it "fast paced combat" (when in fact the pace of combat is the same) but in reality what they really mean to say is they can no longer slaughter their opponents with their cheesy build. They actually have to deal with players who can fight back now - and that's a good thing and healthy for the game. Their so-called "fast paced combat" was lacking to put it mildly.
Wait.. what? Placing one or multiple dots on someone and watching those dots tick is considered fighting back now?
When im running around a rock because you and your friends are trying to kill me with multple people but if you dont even bother keeping your buffs up you deserve to be killed if i get my burst combo off. Usually it doesnt matter if you keep your buffs up since you most likely will have a healer to save you but that isnt the point really. I dont think you deserve to kill me when you place a dot on me and will just afk wait for me to die.
When you say fast paced combat i think of something like... You attack me, i see your attack but i dodge roll to avoid your attack. I react to what you do. I will try to turn and attack, lower your health and when your health is low enough i will go for the combo to get a kill.
What i dont think when i hear fast paced combat is multiple dots just slowly lowering my health until i die...
But hey... good for you. Enjoy the patch. Place some dots on those nasty rock runners and wait for the AP. Must be very exciting gameplay. Ever considered streaming? I bet people would pay to watch some top quality gameplay like that!
I do battlegrounds. I rarely do Cyrodil - and when I do it's the none CP variety. So me and my friends are not trying to chase you around the rock. That was an assumption I made based on the comments I have read regarding the kind of playstyle these DoTs have frustrated. And from your reaction it seems I guessed correctly.
But to respond: yeah - placing DoTs on people is certainly a way to fight back and sounds like an effective counter to those who like to use LoS as a defense. You may think it's unfair - or what ever it is your issue is with it - but I don't consider playing ring around the rosy with some rock to be interesting or engaging game play so I'm not saddened to see it effectively countered. As to me personally, it was never something I really had to deal with as that seems mostly like a CP tactic. I rarely see it done in the none CP variety - and when it is it's often not very effective. So don't make the mistake of believing just because I think the style of play is silly that means I was personally troubled by "rock runners". Because I wasn't.
In regards to your notion of fast paced combat - you can still doge roll and attack others with your combos when they are low on health. This patch has not effected that in any way. So your "fast paced combat" is still intact. So I don't understand what your complaint even is.
Dots don’t counter line of sight. People run around rocks because you have 100% mitigation against targeted attacks behind a rock hehehehe.
As a MagDk I’ll say this about dots: they hit hard to begin with if you had enough cp to dump into thaum to begin with. Embers may or may not be hitting harder. Can’t tell.
Engulfing’s first hit started hitting harder last patch. I never counted on the ticks just wanted the flame damage buff. Now it’s an effective 1 hit attack in itself. Apparently it’s ticks have been nerfed. Can’t tell.
As for Stuctured Entropy (which I’ve always used). The cost increase is noticeable. I used to spam it. Fully buffed mine hits for 30k over 12 seconds (tooltip) think 15k in Cyrodil. I wouldn’t say that’s unmanageable...unless you’re squishy. I run 15k pen so...
I will say this. It’s possible to catch a fool slipping with Entropy lol.
1