What am I supposed to replace power surge with?

sharquez · August 2019

I've been using entropy and soutrap and they've been working just fine to keep me alive. VMA was a bit harder than it was last week due to the changes made but it's definitely still easily doable.

As for PVP I also use entropy and the matriarch still heals great so I can get by with double destro staff and care for my positioning. Overall with just a few changes to the general feel of sorc it still feels good to me.

Vahrokh · August 2019

starkerealm wrote: »

Aurelle1 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

Spell power pots are a very expensive way to keep up SP. They last less than a minute. It's like tearing up £50 notes. Fine for the multi-millionaires in the game, but crippling for most of us.

Also they don't even restore health, which is something you are likely to need in a hurry unless you have dark exchange/deal (which has a cast time) taking up a slot. With good management you are less likely to run out of magicka.

.

So, spell power pots are too expensive, but tripots are fine? Right.

Here's a wild thought: You don't need Major Sorcery in most content. Yes, there is stuff like vet trials, vet DLC dungeons, things where you need to plan ahead and go, "okay, I'm going to be burning resources in there," just like before. But, for basic overland trash, for non-DLC vets, for normal dungeons and trials? You don't need that.

If you look at that and say, "no, I still need 100% uptime on Major Sorcery," then your options are to pack Entropy, or to realize you don't know what you're talking about. For the vast majority of the game, on a sorc, Major Sorcery is unnecessary. It can make your life easier, but you don't need it to perform adequately.

If you're having issues with survival and need health pots, then you're, either, already doing content that doesn't require Major Sorcery, or your healer sucks.

There's that tiny detail, where you get plenty of free daily login reward restoration potions.
Then there's that other little detail, where you use such potions strictly when needed, while spell power pots must be chugged constantly else the buffs drop.

StormChaser3000 · August 2019

_Medusa_ wrote: »

Earlier someone in another thread suggested using Critical Surge for the heal, and Degeneration, since it also grants Major Sorcery.

I have yet to jump in game to try this though!

I was one of those people probably. I've just tested it on the first 4 rounds of vMA with my single pet sorc (I'll finish it later, have no time right now) and I should say that it feels surprisingly good. I threw away LL and replaced it with Degeneration. Power Surge was replaced with Critical Surge.

Both sustain and survivability feel improved. Critical Surge heals much better than the old Power Surge. I noticed that I can take harder hits and take them more frequently. Honestly also now I have much better uptime on Major Sorcery than before. It's easier to keep it up since I'm used to recast LL (now Degeneration) frequently.

I'll test the remained stages of vMA a bit later, but for now it feels easier than before the patch. I guess sometimes nerfs can be converted into buffs...

KerinKor · August 2019

Aurelle1 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

Spell power pots are a very expensive way to keep up SP. They last less than a minute. It's like tearing up £50 notes. Fine for the multi-millionaires in the game, but crippling for most of us.

Or .. just make them yourself?

Spend some time doing something other than grinding for phat lewt or player kills, depending on your preference!

KappaKid83 · August 2019

TBois wrote: »

Entropy, it's also one of the best single target dots rn

What he said. Slot Entropy, cast it, profit.

Insco851 · August 2019

KerinKor wrote: »

Aurelle1 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

Spell power pots are a very expensive way to keep up SP. They last less than a minute. It's like tearing up £50 notes. Fine for the multi-millionaires in the game, but crippling for most of us.

Or .. just make them yourself?

Spend some time doing something other than grinding for phat lewt or player kills, depending on your preference!

Making them yourself has little difference in cost. Running around picking up reagents is far from profitable considering corn flower is not in abundance. And if you spend 100k telvar in satchels, you’ll still be lucky to actually get a stack of it as well. Tho with the other reagents it’s probably the best route.

_Medusa_ · August 2019

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

_Medusa_ wrote: »

Earlier someone in another thread suggested using Critical Surge for the heal, and Degeneration, since it also grants Major Sorcery.

I have yet to jump in game to try this though!

I was one of those people probably. I've just tested it on the first 4 rounds of vMA with my single pet sorc (I'll finish it later, have no time right now) and I should say that it feels surprisingly good. I threw away LL and replaced it with Degeneration. Power Surge was replaced with Critical Surge.

Both sustain and survivability feel improved. Critical Surge heals much better than the old Power Surge. I noticed that I can take harder hits and take them more frequently. Honestly also now I have much better uptime on Major Sorcery than before. It's easier to keep it up since I'm used to recast LL (now Degeneration) frequently.

I'll test the remained stages of vMA a bit later, but for now it feels easier than before the patch. I guess sometimes nerfs can be converted into buffs...

May I ask which pet you are you slotting with this?

Beardimus · August 2019

starkerealm wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

Entropy, it's also one of the best single target dots rn

It's so weird to me that we're in an era when Entropy is good.

Or when the major sorcery class doesn't have access to major sorcery as a class skill....dats weird

Lylith · August 2019

SFDB wrote: »

coppersly wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

I go for the regen ones personally, because I HAD a reliable major sorcery built into my self-sustain...

Yep, welcome to update 23, where Unstoppable means you slog forward, Immovable means you can be moved, and a Sorcerer has no practical class means of getting Major Sorcery.

immovable also means you move like you're wading neck deep in ***.

couldn't manage the speedsters, otherwise?

they're still here, zo$. gg.

SFDB · August 2019

Let me give an analogy to perhaps explain why Power Surge is eliciting the backlash that it is. Because the cries for nerfs have been coming for so long we knew something was inevitably going to change.

It's like the city tears up the street in front of your driveway, and it really inconveniences you. You can only get your car out by driving over the lawn and tearing it up. You have to park a block away now while they do their thing, and the noise is so loud you can barely think. But, you know that all of this was a long time coming, the street was bad, fixing it requires living with some inconveniences, so you'll just take it all in stride and accept things will be better when it's finished.

Then at the end of the shift, the foreman grabs the trash can full of all the styrofoam cups, fast food wrappers, cigarette butts, and all the other crap they accumulated over the day, walks over to your swimming pool, and while looking at you through your window, tips the can over, his eyes never leaving yours as he gently taps the bottom to ensure every last bit falls into the pool.

This is what Power Surge's change feels like, not something necessary for the good of all, but a final gesture to say, "Oh no, this wasn't just necessary, I want you to know I enjoy your misery."

StormChaser3000 · August 2019

_Medusa_ wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

_Medusa_ wrote: »

Earlier someone in another thread suggested using Critical Surge for the heal, and Degeneration, since it also grants Major Sorcery.

I have yet to jump in game to try this though!

I was one of those people probably. I've just tested it on the first 4 rounds of vMA with my single pet sorc (I'll finish it later, have no time right now) and I should say that it feels surprisingly good. I threw away LL and replaced it with Degeneration. Power Surge was replaced with Critical Surge.

Both sustain and survivability feel improved. Critical Surge heals much better than the old Power Surge. I noticed that I can take harder hits and take them more frequently. Honestly also now I have much better uptime on Major Sorcery than before. It's easier to keep it up since I'm used to recast LL (now Degeneration) frequently.

I'll test the remained stages of vMA a bit later, but for now it feels easier than before the patch. I guess sometimes nerfs can be converted into buffs...

May I ask which pet you are you slotting with this?

@_Medusa_ I use scamp.

I've just finished vMA run with slightly adjusted setup. Critical Surge + Degeneration + unstable wall allow to finish it... however... in the past thanks to stronger ground AoEs it was somewhat easier to deal with packs of enemies. Today you can't easily fry bosses together with trash, it took me somewhat longer to clean later stages.

The good news is that thanks to the improved healing + I think the shield now is larger (it scales now to 60% health, while it was 50% before. correct me if I'm wrong) it is somewhat easier to deal with those annoying Crematorium Guardians at the 9th arena. I died couple times to the anchors, but not a single time to those daedroths.

So, no, pet sorcs aren't dead yet. That was my 6th or 7th run at that arena, and first run after the patch so I believe other arena beginners who don't want to switch class can do it too.

jypcy · August 2019

SFDB wrote: »

Let me give an analogy to perhaps explain why Power Surge is eliciting the backlash that it is. Because the cries for nerfs have been coming for so long we knew something was inevitably going to change.

It's like the city tears up the street in front of your driveway, and it really inconveniences you. You can only get your car out by driving over the lawn and tearing it up. You have to park a block away now while they do their thing, and the noise is so loud you can barely think. But, you know that all of this was a long time coming, the street was bad, fixing it requires living with some inconveniences, so you'll just take it all in stride and accept things will be better when it's finished.

Then at the end of the shift, the foreman grabs the trash can full of all the styrofoam cups, fast food wrappers, cigarette butts, and all the other crap they accumulated over the day, walks over to your swimming pool, and while looking at you through your window, tips the can over, his eyes never leaving yours as he gently taps the bottom to ensure every last bit falls into the pool.

This is what Power Surge's change feels like, not something necessary for the good of all, but a final gesture to say, "Oh no, this wasn't just necessary, I want you to know I enjoy your misery."

Sure, you can feel that way, but I sincerely doubt that the devs were scheming of a way to be excessively cruel to a significant portion of their playerbase. As someone pointed to in a similar thread, try considering Hanlon’s razor here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

They made a change that they thought could benefit sorc healers, potentially even with the intent that it wouldn’t hurt magsorc dps all that much (due to other sources of major sorcery). In actuality a lot of magsorc builds likely ended up negatively affected by the change in some way, and the designers were too shortsighted or short on time to figure out a better solution, but no one was out to get you.

Sergg007 · August 2019

ZOS made so much pain here, yes it is just a game, but people here spend their real time and melts real nerves. And after that all our efforts is waste. Karma exist remember this ZOS.

SFDB · August 2019

jypcy wrote: »

SFDB wrote: »

Let me give an analogy to perhaps explain why Power Surge is eliciting the backlash that it is. Because the cries for nerfs have been coming for so long we knew something was inevitably going to change.

It's like the city tears up the street in front of your driveway, and it really inconveniences you. You can only get your car out by driving over the lawn and tearing it up. You have to park a block away now while they do their thing, and the noise is so loud you can barely think. But, you know that all of this was a long time coming, the street was bad, fixing it requires living with some inconveniences, so you'll just take it all in stride and accept things will be better when it's finished.

Then at the end of the shift, the foreman grabs the trash can full of all the styrofoam cups, fast food wrappers, cigarette butts, and all the other crap they accumulated over the day, walks over to your swimming pool, and while looking at you through your window, tips the can over, his eyes never leaving yours as he gently taps the bottom to ensure every last bit falls into the pool.

This is what Power Surge's change feels like, not something necessary for the good of all, but a final gesture to say, "Oh no, this wasn't just necessary, I want you to know I enjoy your misery."

Sure, you can feel that way, but I sincerely doubt that the devs were scheming of a way to be excessively cruel to a significant portion of their playerbase. As someone pointed to in a similar thread, try considering Hanlon’s razor here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

They made a change that they thought could benefit sorc healers, potentially even with the intent that it wouldn’t hurt magsorc dps all that much (due to other sources of major sorcery). In actuality a lot of magsorc builds likely ended up negatively affected by the change in some way, and the designers were too shortsighted or short on time to figure out a better solution, but no one was out to get you.

I don't think they literally did it to spite anyone, but it was so unnecessary, ignored warnings about the consequences, and did it when things were already going to be crippled, that it has the same emotional impact. Negligence without correction is merely slow-motion malice.

_Medusa_ · August 2019

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

_Medusa_ wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

_Medusa_ wrote: »

Earlier someone in another thread suggested using Critical Surge for the heal, and Degeneration, since it also grants Major Sorcery.

I have yet to jump in game to try this though!

I was one of those people probably. I've just tested it on the first 4 rounds of vMA with my single pet sorc (I'll finish it later, have no time right now) and I should say that it feels surprisingly good. I threw away LL and replaced it with Degeneration. Power Surge was replaced with Critical Surge.

Both sustain and survivability feel improved. Critical Surge heals much better than the old Power Surge. I noticed that I can take harder hits and take them more frequently. Honestly also now I have much better uptime on Major Sorcery than before. It's easier to keep it up since I'm used to recast LL (now Degeneration) frequently.

I'll test the remained stages of vMA a bit later, but for now it feels easier than before the patch. I guess sometimes nerfs can be converted into buffs...

May I ask which pet you are you slotting with this?

@_Medusa_ I use scamp.

I've just finished vMA run with slightly adjusted setup. Critical Surge + Degeneration + unstable wall allow to finish it... however... in the past thanks to stronger ground AoEs it was somewhat easier to deal with packs of enemies. Today you can't easily fry bosses together with trash, it took me somewhat longer to clean later stages.

The good news is that thanks to the improved healing + I think the shield now is larger (it scales now to 60% health, while it was 50% before. correct me if I'm wrong) it is somewhat easier to deal with those annoying Crematorium Guardians at the 9th arena. I died couple times to the anchors, but not a single time to those daedroths.

So, no, pet sorcs aren't dead yet. That was my 6th or 7th run at that arena, and first run after the patch so I believe other arena beginners who don't want to switch class can do it too.

@StormChaser3000

Thanks much for the reply!

Since the patch went live I've been trying different skills, but I haven't quite found the right combo for me yet.

I have to admit, I dearly miss how my pet sorc was prior to the patch. It was so much fun to play her!

Eiregirl · August 2019

Uryel wrote: »

A few patches ago, Nightbaldes got their top assassination skills gutetd and turned into a (weak) defense buff, instead of a damage-buffing one. But no one cared, because "OMG nerf nightblades !!". Of course.

Did you care?
Did you care enough to make a post about it?
Did you care enough to make comments on a post about it?
Did hundreds or thousands of Nightblades care enough about their class to get up in arms about it?

Apparently not but sorcs do.

Emma_Overload · August 2019

Gargath wrote: »

I found my "new" sorc playstyle even more interesting after change (pve though), still running with Surge + now Regeneration from Resto Staff and Entropy, enough for soloing most world bosses. Not pvping with this one. But even for noob pvp theoretically the sorc with 3 strong dots should do good. MagSorc build destroyed, these opinions seem like a bit overreaction. I believe there is always a way to adapt.

Your assessment is correct. My triple dot Sorc is melting enemies in PvP. My rotation does more dps now than it did before the patch. I don't even use a spammable, I just rotate dots and curse!

Major Sorcery is not a concern, because ALL sorcs should be running Entropy in both PvP and PvE. Once people figure that out, the complaining will shift to other issues.

HowlKimchi · August 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

I found my "new" sorc playstyle even more interesting after change (pve though), still running with Surge + now Regeneration from Resto Staff and Entropy, enough for soloing most world bosses. Not pvping with this one. But even for noob pvp theoretically the sorc with 3 strong dots should do good. MagSorc build destroyed, these opinions seem like a bit overreaction. I believe there is always a way to adapt.

Your assessment is correct. My triple dot Sorc is melting enemies in PvP. My rotation does more dps now than it did before the patch. I don't even use a spammable, I just rotate dots and curse!

Major Sorcery is not a concern, because ALL sorcs should be running Entropy in both PvP and PvE. Once people figure that out, the complaining will shift to other issues.

Never thought id see the day that dot sorcs become viable in pvp. But I guess every dot spec is viable now anyway.

StormChaser3000 · August 2019

_Medusa_ wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

_Medusa_ wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

_Medusa_ wrote: »

Earlier someone in another thread suggested using Critical Surge for the heal, and Degeneration, since it also grants Major Sorcery.

I have yet to jump in game to try this though!

I was one of those people probably. I've just tested it on the first 4 rounds of vMA with my single pet sorc (I'll finish it later, have no time right now) and I should say that it feels surprisingly good. I threw away LL and replaced it with Degeneration. Power Surge was replaced with Critical Surge.

Both sustain and survivability feel improved. Critical Surge heals much better than the old Power Surge. I noticed that I can take harder hits and take them more frequently. Honestly also now I have much better uptime on Major Sorcery than before. It's easier to keep it up since I'm used to recast LL (now Degeneration) frequently.

I'll test the remained stages of vMA a bit later, but for now it feels easier than before the patch. I guess sometimes nerfs can be converted into buffs...

May I ask which pet you are you slotting with this?

@_Medusa_ I use scamp.

I've just finished vMA run with slightly adjusted setup. Critical Surge + Degeneration + unstable wall allow to finish it... however... in the past thanks to stronger ground AoEs it was somewhat easier to deal with packs of enemies. Today you can't easily fry bosses together with trash, it took me somewhat longer to clean later stages.

The good news is that thanks to the improved healing + I think the shield now is larger (it scales now to 60% health, while it was 50% before. correct me if I'm wrong) it is somewhat easier to deal with those annoying Crematorium Guardians at the 9th arena. I died couple times to the anchors, but not a single time to those daedroths.

So, no, pet sorcs aren't dead yet. That was my 6th or 7th run at that arena, and first run after the patch so I believe other arena beginners who don't want to switch class can do it too.

@StormChaser3000

Thanks much for the reply!

Since the patch went live I've been trying different skills, but I haven't quite found the right combo for me yet.

I have to admit, I dearly miss how my pet sorc was prior to the patch. It was so much fun to play her!

@_Medusa_
I absolutely agree. Even though I tried to create a rotation which had minimum differences from my old one, it still feels weird and wrong.

And surge changes don't make any sense at all. They left the access the to class Major Sorcery (MS) only for healers. Magicka DD sorcs can't use class MS, since this will lead to the loss of survivability.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Why to create such inconveniences for magicka sorcs? Why not to simply add Major Sorcery to Critical Surge? Why magicka sorcs have to be forced to slot entropy skill morphs while their stamina brothers have access to Major Brutality and healing though one single class(!) skill? I found the way around, but combat style now feels just wrong.

barney2525 · August 2019

replace it with a bow skill

Rikkadir · August 2019

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

_Medusa_ wrote: »

Earlier someone in another thread suggested using Critical Surge for the heal, and Degeneration, since it also grants Major Sorcery.

I have yet to jump in game to try this though!

Critical Surge heals much better than the old Power Surge.

But Critical Surge heals don't work with a staff, or am I missing something?

Emma_Overload · August 2019

Rikkadir wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

_Medusa_ wrote: »

Earlier someone in another thread suggested using Critical Surge for the heal, and Degeneration, since it also grants Major Sorcery.

I have yet to jump in game to try this though!

Critical Surge heals much better than the old Power Surge.

But Critical Surge heals don't work with a staff, or am I missing something?

They work just fine with any weapon. You just need to get Major Sorcery buff from something else, like Spell Power pots or Entropy or Rattlecage.

StormChaser3000 · August 2019

Rikkadir wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

_Medusa_ wrote: »

Earlier someone in another thread suggested using Critical Surge for the heal, and Degeneration, since it also grants Major Sorcery.

I have yet to jump in game to try this though!

Critical Surge heals much better than the old Power Surge.

But Critical Surge heals don't work with a staff, or am I missing something?

Just like Emma said. It works perfectly with any type of damage.

Aurie · August 2019

KerinKor wrote: »

Aurelle1 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

Spell power pots are a very expensive way to keep up SP. They last less than a minute. It's like tearing up £50 notes. Fine for the multi-millionaires in the game, but crippling for most of us.

Or .. just make them yourself?

Spend some time doing something other than grinding for phat lewt or player kills, depending on your preference!

Probably a very bad idea to jump to conclusions about what other players do.

I make ALL my own potions, glyphs, food, armour and weapons. I am pretty much self-sufficient. So please don’t try and tell me what I should be doing without knowing the facts first.

And making one’s own doesn’t mean that SP pots are not expensive, when as you no doubt realise, Corn Flowers are fairly rare to harvest and cost a lot to buy. And not forgetting that using at least one pot a minute, you can get through quite a few in just an hour or so.

Have a nice day.