What am I supposed to replace power surge with?

coppersly

Now that it only triggers on critical heals instead of damage and the other morph only gives weapon damage... what the hell am I supposed to replace it with?
Is my rattlecage set finally useful?

starkerealm

You're not using spell power pots?

coppersly

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

I go for the regen ones personally, because I HAD a reliable major sorcery built into my self-sustain...

TBois

Entropy, it's also one of the best single target dots rn

starkerealm

TBois wrote: »

Entropy, it's also one of the best single target dots rn

It's so weird to me that we're in an era when Entropy is good.

_Medusa_

Earlier someone in another thread suggested using Critical Surge for the heal, and Degeneration, since it also grants Major Sorcery.

I have yet to jump in game to try this though!

TBois

starkerealm wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

Entropy, it's also one of the best single target dots rn

It's so weird to me that we're in an era when Entropy is good.

It truly is, and I am still astounded that I am astounded by zos changes.

SFDB

coppersly wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

I go for the regen ones personally, because I HAD a reliable major sorcery built into my self-sustain...

Yep, welcome to update 23, where Unstoppable means you slog forward, Immovable means you can be moved, and a Sorcerer has no practical class means of getting Major Sorcery.

Lazarus_Rising

Structured Entropy is the way to go now for you

Lisutaris

SFDB wrote: »

coppersly wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

I go for the regen ones personally, because I HAD a reliable major sorcery built into my self-sustain...

Yep, welcome to update 23, where Unstoppable means you slog forward, Immovable means you can be moved, and a Sorcerer has no practical class means of getting Major Sorcery.

Let me hop on this meme train.

Aurie

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

Spell power pots are a very expensive way to keep up SP. They last less than a minute. It's like tearing up £50 notes. Fine for the multi-millionaires in the game, but crippling for most of us.

Also they don't even restore health, which is something you are likely to need in a hurry unless you have dark exchange/deal (which has a cast time) taking up a slot. With good management you are less likely to run out of magicka.

.

starkerealm

Aurelle1 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

Spell power pots are a very expensive way to keep up SP. They last less than a minute. It's like tearing up £50 notes. Fine for the multi-millionaires in the game, but crippling for most of us.

Also they don't even restore health, which is something you are likely to need in a hurry unless you have dark exchange/deal (which has a cast time) taking up a slot. With good management you are less likely to run out of magicka.

.

So, spell power pots are too expensive, but tripots are fine? Right.

Here's a wild thought: You don't need Major Sorcery in most content. Yes, there is stuff like vet trials, vet DLC dungeons, things where you need to plan ahead and go, "okay, I'm going to be burning resources in there," just like before. But, for basic overland trash, for non-DLC vets, for normal dungeons and trials? You don't need that.

If you look at that and say, "no, I still need 100% uptime on Major Sorcery," then your options are to pack Entropy, or to realize you don't know what you're talking about. For the vast majority of the game, on a sorc, Major Sorcery is unnecessary. It can make your life easier, but you don't need it to perform adequately.

If you're having issues with survival and need health pots, then you're, either, already doing content that doesn't require Major Sorcery, or your healer sucks.

thorwyn

Replace it with a dot.

macsmooth

Crit surge and entropy
Crit surge and pots
Power surge and change role to healer
Crit surge and rattlecage transmuted jewellery build
Crit surge and pelinal build (this set needs a rework on lines 1 2 3)
Retirement and crafting tables for daily writs

Im sure I had a sixth option the other day but can’t remember it now

HowlKimchi

starkerealm wrote: »

Aurelle1 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

Spell power pots are a very expensive way to keep up SP. They last less than a minute. It's like tearing up £50 notes. Fine for the multi-millionaires in the game, but crippling for most of us.

Also they don't even restore health, which is something you are likely to need in a hurry unless you have dark exchange/deal (which has a cast time) taking up a slot. With good management you are less likely to run out of magicka.

.

So, spell power pots are too expensive, but tripots are fine? Right.

Here's a wild thought: You don't need Major Sorcery in most content. Yes, there is stuff like vet trials, vet DLC dungeons, things where you need to plan ahead and go, "okay, I'm going to be burning resources in there," just like before. But, for basic overland trash, for non-DLC vets, for normal dungeons and trials? You don't need that.

If you look at that and say, "no, I still need 100% uptime on Major Sorcery," then your options are to pack Entropy, or to realize you don't know what you're talking about. For the vast majority of the game, on a sorc, Major Sorcery is unnecessary. It can make your life easier, but you don't need it to perform adequately.

If you're having issues with survival and need health pots, then you're, either, already doing content that doesn't require Major Sorcery, or your healer sucks.

This is most likely a PVP thread. I think it's pretty obvious but I feel the need to mention it to you.

In PVP you dont chug tripots on cooldown because you only need it when you get pressured too much. Major Sorcery needs to be up during combat all the time in PVP though.

AcadianPaladin

My magsorc replaced power surge with crit surge + structured entropy. Of course, replacing one skill with two means no room for pets and a petless magsorc is simply a gimped magblade but oh well. I have 4 mages and 3 archers. The magsorc has been the hardest to adjust to. More importanly, I don't like the playstyle the magsorc now requires to be effective. I very much enjoyed a Matriarch with lotsa ground AoEs but all that was badly nerfed. I have totally changed her to be effective again but do not like the flavor of the month DoT-based playstyle.

Uryel

A few patches ago, Nightbaldes got their top assassination skills gutetd and turned into a (weak) defense buff, instead of a damage-buffing one. But no one cared, because "OMG nerf nightblades !!". Of course.

Now that sorcs get a not-even-as-bad nerf, people riot ? Allright, allow me to grab some popcorn, I'll be right back.

Rikkadir

_Medusa_ wrote: »

Earlier someone in another thread suggested using Critical Surge for the heal, and Degeneration, since it also grants Major Sorcery.

I have yet to jump in game to try this though!

I'm gutted and disgusted with ZOS by this change. My MagSorc build destroyed by a stupid decision. 'Power Surge' no longer does what I spent a skill point for it to do?

Critical Surge? Does weapon damage include staff light/heavy attacks?

Not looking forward to August 27th on PS4. ESO is already annoying to play on console.

Gargath

I found my "new" sorc playstyle even more interesting after change (pve though), still running with Surge + now Regeneration from Resto Staff and Entropy, enough for soloing most world bosses. Not pvping with this one. But even for noob pvp theoretically the sorc with 3 strong dots should do good. MagSorc build destroyed, these opinions seem like a bit overreaction. I believe there is always a way to adapt.

AcadianPaladin

No, Crit Surge does not help your staff attacks.

Crit Surge has always provided more healing than Power Surge though. What is missing is Major Sorcery and that needs to come from Entropy or potions now. I'm not impressed with or defending the choices ZOS made, just trying to answer the question.

Insco851

Entropy. The heal morph.

Insco851

starkerealm wrote: »

Aurelle1 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

Spell power pots are a very expensive way to keep up SP. They last less than a minute. It's like tearing up £50 notes. Fine for the multi-millionaires in the game, but crippling for most of us.

Also they don't even restore health, which is something you are likely to need in a hurry unless you have dark exchange/deal (which has a cast time) taking up a slot. With good management you are less likely to run out of magicka.

.

So, spell power pots are too expensive, but tripots are fine? Right.

Here's a wild thought: You don't need Major Sorcery in most content. Yes, there is stuff like vet trials, vet DLC dungeons, things where you need to plan ahead and go, "okay, I'm going to be burning resources in there," just like before. But, for basic overland trash, for non-DLC vets, for normal dungeons and trials? You don't need that.

If you look at that and say, "no, I still need 100% uptime on Major Sorcery," then your options are to pack Entropy, or to realize you don't know what you're talking about. For the vast majority of the game, on a sorc, Major Sorcery is unnecessary. It can make your life easier, but you don't need it to perform adequately.

If you're having issues with survival and need health pots, then you're, either, already doing content that doesn't require Major Sorcery, or your healer sucks.

Cornflower by itself is 85-90k per stack rn on console. Tri pots are much cheaper. MUCH

WuffyCerulei

Insco851 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Aurelle1 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

Spell power pots are a very expensive way to keep up SP. They last less than a minute. It's like tearing up £50 notes. Fine for the multi-millionaires in the game, but crippling for most of us.

Also they don't even restore health, which is something you are likely to need in a hurry unless you have dark exchange/deal (which has a cast time) taking up a slot. With good management you are less likely to run out of magicka.

.

So, spell power pots are too expensive, but tripots are fine? Right.

Here's a wild thought: You don't need Major Sorcery in most content. Yes, there is stuff like vet trials, vet DLC dungeons, things where you need to plan ahead and go, "okay, I'm going to be burning resources in there," just like before. But, for basic overland trash, for non-DLC vets, for normal dungeons and trials? You don't need that.

If you look at that and say, "no, I still need 100% uptime on Major Sorcery," then your options are to pack Entropy, or to realize you don't know what you're talking about. For the vast majority of the game, on a sorc, Major Sorcery is unnecessary. It can make your life easier, but you don't need it to perform adequately.

If you're having issues with survival and need health pots, then you're, either, already doing content that doesn't require Major Sorcery, or your healer sucks.

Cornflower by itself is 85-90k per stack rn on console. Tri pots are much cheaper. MUCH

Cornflower may be expensive, but getting Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy, and Major Intellect from one source instead of skills makes life easier. Just #magickalife.

EmEm_Oh

I have to wonder if "Power Surge" should now be renamed with new abilities.

Or combine both PS and Entropy for something like Power Degeneration as one of the morphs.

Insco851

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Aurelle1 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

Spell power pots are a very expensive way to keep up SP. They last less than a minute. It's like tearing up £50 notes. Fine for the multi-millionaires in the game, but crippling for most of us.

Also they don't even restore health, which is something you are likely to need in a hurry unless you have dark exchange/deal (which has a cast time) taking up a slot. With good management you are less likely to run out of magicka.

.

So, spell power pots are too expensive, but tripots are fine? Right.

Here's a wild thought: You don't need Major Sorcery in most content. Yes, there is stuff like vet trials, vet DLC dungeons, things where you need to plan ahead and go, "okay, I'm going to be burning resources in there," just like before. But, for basic overland trash, for non-DLC vets, for normal dungeons and trials? You don't need that.

If you look at that and say, "no, I still need 100% uptime on Major Sorcery," then your options are to pack Entropy, or to realize you don't know what you're talking about. For the vast majority of the game, on a sorc, Major Sorcery is unnecessary. It can make your life easier, but you don't need it to perform adequately.

If you're having issues with survival and need health pots, then you're, either, already doing content that doesn't require Major Sorcery, or your healer sucks.

Cornflower by itself is 85-90k per stack rn on console. Tri pots are much cheaper. MUCH

Cornflower may be expensive, but getting Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy, and Major Intellect from one source instead of skills makes life easier. Just #magickalife.

Agreed unless you build for the use of a defensive pot instead. Still, the poster was trying to say tripots were on par with SPP in terms of cost... which couldn’t be further from the truth.

Haquor

coppersly wrote: »

Now that it only triggers on critical heals instead of damage and the other morph only gives weapon damage... what the hell am I supposed to replace it with?
Is my rattlecage set finally useful?

Degeneration is an excellent dot that gives you your spell damage youre missing from power surge. Or use spell power pots. Then morph to crit surge and you get your heals.

I feel they really should have added both spell and wpn dmg buffs to crit surge. Even if they toned the healing down slighty.

Power surge could give a minor group buff and do group heals.

Crit surge could give player major buff and player heals.

Uryel

SFDB wrote: »

coppersly wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

I go for the regen ones personally, because I HAD a reliable major sorcery built into my self-sustain...

Yep, welcome to update 23, where Unstoppable means you slog forward, Immovable means you can be moved, and a Sorcerer has no practical class means of getting Major Sorcery.

Yeah, because every class always has access to every possible buff / debuff all the time. Of course.

Let me look at my Nightblade for a second... Ah, yep, Minor Berserk is no longer a buff we can get. Major Berserk requires a specific targeted debuff that only gives the buff once the target is dead, meaning there is no way to have Major Berserk affecting an opening strike. Lovely, for an assassin type, right ? Same for major Brutality, cannot pre-buff, it requires to be in melee range and hit something. So again, no buffed opening strike. And I don't even recall ever having access to Minor Brutality.

So maybe it's not so bad (never thought I'd see the day when Nightblades could say "at least we're not getting it as bad as that other class") because we can still have access to some of those buffs, but the way we get them kinda defeats the whole idea of an assassin. Should be obvious when looking at assassination's top skill, which became a weak defense buff, that being able to burst a *** ton of damage is not what ZOS wants for anyone now. Going the DoT way was the next logical step.

Welcome to Nightblade Hell. Lot of room to spare to accomodate future nerfs.

Celestro

Minor Brutality is primarily gained from DKs though I don't believe many proc it often outside of tanks.

But dang, didn't even know NBs lost their Minor Berserk and got said weak defense buff in return. That definitely sucks.

SFDB

Uryel wrote: »

SFDB wrote: »

coppersly wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

I go for the regen ones personally, because I HAD a reliable major sorcery built into my self-sustain...

Yep, welcome to update 23, where Unstoppable means you slog forward, Immovable means you can be moved, and a Sorcerer has no practical class means of getting Major Sorcery.

Yeah, because every class always has access to every possible buff / debuff all the time. Of course.

Let me look at my Nightblade for a second... Ah, yep, Minor Berserk is no longer a buff we can get. Major Berserk requires a specific targeted debuff that only gives the buff once the target is dead, meaning there is no way to have Major Berserk affecting an opening strike. Lovely, for an assassin type, right ? Same for major Brutality, cannot pre-buff, it requires to be in melee range and hit something. So again, no buffed opening strike. And I don't even recall ever having access to Minor Brutality.

So maybe it's not so bad (never thought I'd see the day when Nightblades could say "at least we're not getting it as bad as that other class") because we can still have access to some of those buffs, but the way we get them kinda defeats the whole idea of an assassin. Should be obvious when looking at assassination's top skill, which became a weak defense buff, that being able to burst a *** ton of damage is not what ZOS wants for anyone now. Going the DoT way was the next logical step.

Welcome to Nightblade Hell. Lot of room to spare to accomodate future nerfs.

I'm a little tired of this kind of response, because I've defended other classes when the nerf hammer fell on them, so this "now it's your turn" attitude bugs me. Other players aren't enemies to be weakened, they're allies. And now when it's my turn, those same people I spoke up for not only enjoy that it's someone else's turn, they need some straw man attacks to just further twist the knife?

I think I un-scubscribed at exactly the right time.

Sergg007

all things they do here for your suffer. And when you adapt they do it again. You must suffer, always. I think they enjoy that...

J2JMC

Uryel wrote: »

SFDB wrote: »

coppersly wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

You're not using spell power pots?

I go for the regen ones personally, because I HAD a reliable major sorcery built into my self-sustain...

Yep, welcome to update 23, where Unstoppable means you slog forward, Immovable means you can be moved, and a Sorcerer has no practical class means of getting Major Sorcery.

Yeah, because every class always has access to every possible buff / debuff all the time. Of course.

Let me look at my Nightblade for a second... Ah, yep, Minor Berserk is no longer a buff we can get. Major Berserk requires a specific targeted debuff that only gives the buff once the target is dead, meaning there is no way to have Major Berserk affecting an opening strike. Lovely, for an assassin type, right ? Same for major Brutality, cannot pre-buff, it requires to be in melee range and hit something. So again, no buffed opening strike. And I don't even recall ever having access to Minor Brutality.

So maybe it's not so bad (never thought I'd see the day when Nightblades could say "at least we're not getting it as bad as that other class") because we can still have access to some of those buffs, but the way we get them kinda defeats the whole idea of an assassin. Should be obvious when looking at assassination's top skill, which became a weak defense buff, that being able to burst a *** ton of damage is not what ZOS wants for anyone now. Going the DoT way was the next logical step.

Welcome to Nightblade Hell. Lot of room to spare to accomodate future nerfs.

I agree with you on how the completely gutted nightblade identity (only class I played to vet16 both specs), and I'm always up for a nerf sorc thread. But sorcerers should absolutely have the best major sorcery skill in the game.